LL Reaches Out on PBR

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Sorry Ceka, I meant the updated SL viewer is running great..

The interface though...is a pain...but I'll get used to it.

TEASE!! \o/

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sorry Ceka, I meant the updated SL viewer is running great..

The interface though...is a pain...but I'll get used to it.

TEASE!! \o/

I knowww...I want that one too.

Too old to deal with new interfaces!!!

* and remembering people's new genders too. I hope you stay female...lol

Edited August 23 by Luna Bliss

[Ceka Cianci]

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I knowww...I want that one too.

Too old to deal with new interfaces!!!

* and remembering people's new genders too. I hope you stay female...lol

It would be neat if Firestorm did do a version like SL did..

If I had a time machine, I'd do it then see the look on my husbands face, then fly back real quick before I did it.. hehehe

ETA: Oh wait, that wouldn't work would it, because I'd still be changed!! \o/

Never mind, I won't dew et! hehehe

Edited August 23 by Ceka Cianci

[Extrude Ragu]

LL Just published a news article covering recent developments including updates to Mobile, Server, Combat and WebRTC Voice.

I think people will want to see this exerpt as it's quite relevant to the thread and new information so I'm sharing it here:-

Quote

🧰Maintenance Viewers

DeltaFPS will be the next Release Candidate (RC) which will contain many more performance improvements focusing on bringing frame rates up to and if not better than, where they were before. With the move to GitHub we are also trying a new development method called GitFlow. This will mean fewer parallel Release Candidates (RCs) and more frequent, smaller feature releases with only one active RC at a time. For this reason both Maintenance B and C, which were published and had several thousand user hours each, were closed and merged into the develop branch. All those users were offered an upgrade to Atlasaurus already.

 

Edited August 23 by Extrude Ragu

[Arielle Popstar]

57 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If it's a laptop you won't be able to add a GPU. In general only desktop PC's are upgradable.

I don't know what your financial situation is like but you can get a decent budget gaming PC on Amazon for £400 to £500.

If you insist on laptop, expect to pay about 30-50% more for the same performance, laptops are always more expensive than desktops.

My partner purchased a laptop last year in the UK for 600 pounds and though it was a good enough of a CPU and GPU for SL last year having a Nvidia 1060, it would be minimal with PBR. I'd question whether 400-500 in UK prices would be sufficient now and the upcoming enhancements expected in the near future.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My partner purchased a laptop last year in the UK for 600 pounds

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If you insist on laptop, expect to pay about 30-50% more

 

24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'd question whether 400-500 in UK prices would be sufficient now

Well no probably not, because 30-50% more than 400-500 is going to be around £600+ which would get you something that, as you put it

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

would be minimal with PBR.

 

[HeathcliffMontague]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Ok, I understand what you're saying.  This phrase can be used in a literal fashion to just say "I told you this information before but you did not follow it and maybe you will next time". 

But usually, in common usage, it's a way of gloating, of pointing out to another that you won and they lost, so not sure it's the best meme to use when you feel you're right and somebody else is wrong.

Geez. The intro of PBR has been an ungodly mess. Time to come to terms with it. Let's now in a kumbaya sense make the grid better

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

Geez. The intro of PBR has been an ungodly mess.

Imagine what a mess it would be if God WAS involved.

 

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

Geez. The intro of PBR has been an ungodly mess. Time to come to terms with it. Let's now in a kumbaya sense make the grid better

You guys get to work!  I went to AstroTurf or whatever...

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

LL Just published a news article covering recent developments including updates to Mobile, Server, Combat and WebRTC Voice.

I think people will want to see this exerpt as it's quite relevant to the thread and new information so I'm sharing it here:-

 

I'm finding all the names confusing, "Atlasaurus", etc.  It is also not clear on a "quick reading" from what you quoted, if the "current" special viewer release is one of those being discussed (maybe that one is "Atlasaurus"..).  I read the article when it showed up in my feed, but must have skimmed too fast as I don't remember seeing the name "DeltaFPS".

[Extrude Ragu]

37 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm finding all the names confusing, "Atlasaurus", etc.  It is also not clear on a "quick reading" from what you quoted, if the "current" special viewer release is one of those being discussed (maybe that one is "Atlasaurus"..).  I read the article when it showed up in my feed, but must have skimmed too fast as I don't remember seeing the name "DeltaFPS".

I think they are two seperate updates, Atlasaurus is the one that is rolling out now with an initial wave of performance improvements mostly targeting integrated graphics. And then this DeltaFPS is the next one which seems to just be an overall fps boost.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I think they are two seperate updates, Atlasaurus is the one that is rolling out now with an initial wave of performance improvements mostly targeting integrated graphics. And then this DeltaFPS is the next one which seems to just be an overall fps boost.

Think I was distracted by details in whatever update had the irrelevant info about being able to take multiple items into inventory without them being coalesced.. * eyes crossing *

[HeathcliffMontague]

10 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

The learning curve is also SL's greatest strength though, as it points to the fact that SL is a complex virtual world with many features to partake in. There's no way this can be made easy.

Pretty wise words there.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:49 PM, WeFlossDaily said:

LL can reach out all they want to and try to be all caring and put their best PR face on but I ain't buying it.

I despise PBR and I hold LL responsible for infecting SL with it.

"Reaching out"?....

Or knuckling under?

The reality is: the concurrency is down, the number of islands is dwindling, and they realize they have to stop the hemorrhage.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

the concurrency is down

Quantifiably so, in a way that can't simply be accounted for because it's August?

[WeFlossDaily]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

The reality is: the concurrency is down, the number of islands is dwindling, and they realize they have to stop the hemorrhage.

I think so.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Quantifiably so, in a way that can't simply be accounted for because it's August?

They have probably seen a bunch of Fail-Viewer users drift away from their PBR Fail Viewer to non PBR TPV's, which might be a more telling metric. Anyone with a PC that CAN'T run Fail-Viewer-PBR, basically faced a choice, change to non PBR TPV or QUIT SL.

Then an unseasonal drop in concurrency, and then the crap-storm over PBR Bloatstorm...

 

Edit:

I just checked the numbers, it's Saturday morning in the EU/UK, and people who are not at work, should be logging in to check the weekend sales...

 

Concurrency is currently...

29116

That's "Tuesday Afternoon in the UK in the middle of the Rolling Restarts" level. Not good news.

 

Edited August 24 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Scylla Rhiadra]

17 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

They have probably seen a bunch of Fail-Viewer users drift away from their PBR Fail Viewer to non PBR TPV's, which might be a more telling metric. Anyone with a PC that CAN'T run Fail-Viewer-PBR, basically faced a choice, change to non PBR TPV or QUIT SL.

Then an unseasonal drop in concurrency, and then the crap-storm over PBR Bloatstorm...

 

Edit:

I just checked the numbers, it's Saturday morning in the EU/UK, and people who are not at work, should be logging in to check the weekend sales...

 

Concurrency is currently...

29116

That's "Tuesday Afternoon in the UK in the middle of the Rolling Restarts" level. Not good news.

 

Sid tells me that they've had two mandatory viewer upgrades (for the LL viewer) in the past 24 hours. Also not a good sign.

Wow, did they ever screw this up.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Residents: "SL is broken!  Fix it NOW!  LL are Idiots!"

Also Residents: "What do you mean they didn't spend weeks testing the fixes before releasing them?  Why did they rush things?  LL are Idiots!"

🙄

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Residents: "SL is broken!  Fix it NOW!  LL are Idiots!"

Also Residents: "What do you mean they didn't spend weeks testing the fixes before releasing them?  Why did they rush things?  LL are Idiots!"

🙄

Well, in fairness -- the point is that they should have taken the time to fix it before releasing it.

This is all pretty unprecedented, surely. I can't recall an occasion when LL was stumbling over itself so much.

And it's also been . . . more than 8 months? since the release of their first PBR viewer, and the first voicing of concerns, so this has hardly been "hurried."

[discussionbot]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, in fairness -- the point is that they should have taken the time to fix it before releasing it.

This forum should have an ability for the thread’s OP to pin comments, idk why this has to be said again and again and again smh

[steeljane42]

42 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Concurrency is currently...

29116

That's "Tuesday Afternoon in the UK in the middle of the Rolling Restarts" level. Not good news.

That's the usual news, though.

Courtesy of Gwyneth Llewelyn: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i-CwRNe5KTIl98q5jdF8ftD-Ops8LG80gZZimQ3o_4c/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Feel free to compare hour to hour daily stats in 2023 to 2024 ones. Peak concurrency around midday to 3PM SLT is a bit lower this year, by a thousand on average for August, but this hour's concurrency is just about the same.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, in fairness -- the point is that they should have taken the time to fix it before releasing it.

This is all pretty unprecedented, surely. I can't recall an occasion when LL was stumbling over itself so much.

And it's also been . . . more than 8 months? since the release of their first PBR viewer, and the first voicing of concerns, so this has hardly been "hurried."

As has already been pointed out LL had very little idea just how badly this would impact the majority of residents since the group they had testing PBR were mostly creators and therefore probably not having to make do with the type of hardware the majority of us are using so weren't filing bug reports about how bad performance was.

I'm not saying LL didn't massively drop the ball in many ways with the introduction of PBR but the fact that they're rushing to try and fix things and improve performance for those having trouble disproves a lot of the recent claims that they're actively trying to push out users on older hardware.  Personally, I'd rather see immediate incremental improvements than weeks or months of apparent inactivity, even if it does mean they fumble things occasionally in the process.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

24 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

As has already been pointed out LL had very little idea just how badly this would impact the majority of residents since the group they had testing PBR were mostly creators and therefore probably not having to make do with the type of hardware the majority of us are using so weren't filing bug reports about how bad performance was.

Yes, and I and others have addressed this problem. I'm not sure how often I've talked about the disheartening experience of trying to discuss performance issues in the FS chat groups, and the reception of people having difficulties here hasn't always been exactly welcoming either. I also gather, from Henri at least (and maybe from Nagachief?) that some of the TPV developers raised these issues with LL while it was being developed and tested.

The process is clearly flawed, and LL needs to rethink it. I hope that they have remedied it as they now work to fix the performance issues.

24 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I'm not saying LL didn't massively drop the ball in many ways with the introduction of PBR but the fact that they're rushing to try and fix things and improve performance for those having trouble disproves a lot of the recent claims that they're actively trying to push out users on older hardware.

I agree. This was incompetence, rather than malfeasance.

24 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Personally, I'd rather see immediate incremental improvements than weeks or months of apparent inactivity, even if it does mean they fumble things occasionally in the process.

I'd be fine with that too, except this really hasn't been "incremental." That makes it sound as though it were planned. They pushed something out, waited months, until the FS release made it unmistakably clear that they'd screwed up, and then find themselves hurrying to rectify the problems, and address the possible damage it's caused. (I will, however, give them credit for the one update that did improve performance, about a month or so after the original release.)

An incremental process works so long as it's a process and not a scramble. And it absolutely requires communication: users need to know that this is not a finished project, but one that is going to be tweaked for a while to come. That didn't happen until this week.

In the meantime, as I say, people who came here or to in-world groups to report issues were told by a great many people that, well, tough luck -- time to buy a new computer. Or, memorably, "Bye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Edited August 24 by Scylla Rhiadra
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