LL Reaches Out on PBR

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I don't know that there is much that's really new here, and the wiki could still use some work, but this is a refreshing change.

Also, does it suggest that the next viewer update for the official viewer will be optional?

 

[Rick Nightingale]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Also, does it suggest that the next viewer update for the official viewer will be optional?

Do you mean the part that says "encouraging you to update"?

I don't use the official viewer but I know it often insists on an update on the rare occasions I do to check a bug out. Is there usually a grace period before it's just done automatically? It might just mean that.

"Encourage" as in the way most other big companies mean it. You are "encouraged" to upgrade by stopping you using your device properly until you do, or by just doing it to you anyway.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

Do you mean the part that says "encouraging you to update"?

I don't use the official viewer but I know it often insists on an update on the rare occasions I do to check a bug out. Is there usually a grace period before it's just done automatically? It might just mean that.

"Encourage" as in the way most other big companies mean it. You are "encouraged" to upgrade by stopping you using your device properly until you do, or by just doing it to you anyway.

I am not a regular user of the LL viewer either, but I'm pretty sure that updates are not generally optional.

[Love Zhaoying]

32 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Also, does it suggest that the next viewer update for the official viewer will be optional?

I ran the Official viewer just now, and it did not mention any update (it neither "forced" an update, nor "offered" an update).

So, any update mentioned for the Official viewer COULD in this case be "totally optional", until it's..not..?

 

[Ceka Cianci]

26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I ran the Official viewer just now, and it did not mention any update (it neither "forced" an update, nor "offered" an update).

So, any update mentioned for the Official viewer COULD in this case be "totally optional", until it's..not..?

 

I seen this a few lines in.

"

OFFICIAL SECOND LIFE VIEWER: UPDATE NOW FOR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE

If you are having issues with the Official Second Life Viewer, you can immediately download an update here that addresses many of the issues affecting performance, particularly among those who may be using older or less powerful computers. We are continuing to work on additional fixes that will further address texture loading issues and low framerates. If you don’t update proactively now, you’ll soon see a prompt when you go to login to Second Life in the coming days encouraging you to update."

Edited August 22 by Ceka Cianci

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't know that there is much that's really new here, and the wiki could still use some work, but this is a refreshing change.

Also, does it suggest that the next viewer update for the official viewer will be optional?

 

If you follow the link, I think you'll find it takes you to the Alternate Viewers page.     I take it that  "you can immediately download an update here that addresses many of the issues affecting performance, particularly among those who may be using older or less powerful computers" refers to the Atlasaurus Release Candidate viewer, to which there is a download link on that page and which the Lab has for some time been recommending to people experiencing issues with PBR as a way of ameliorating (not curing) various issues.

Since it's a release candidate viewer it's optional whether you install it now or wait until it becomes the next official release, at which point I imagine will be compulsory. 

ETA Ceka beat me to it.

Edited August 22 by Innula Zenovka

[Arielle Popstar]

Better late then never considering all the flak we have seen on the Forums over the PBR updates. Gives me some inkling that the Lab cares somewhat and willing to consider issues the Residents have with the stuff they roll out.

[WeFlossDaily]

LL can reach out all they want to and try to be all caring and put their best PR face on but I ain't buying it.

I despise PBR and I hold LL responsible for infecting SL with it.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you are having issues with the Official Second Life Viewer, you can immediately download an update here that addresses many of the issues affecting performance, particularly among those who may be using older or less powerful computers. We are continuing to work on additional fixes that will further address texture loading issues and low framerates. If you don’t update proactively now, you’ll soon see a prompt when you go to login to Second Life in the coming days encouraging you to update."

Good point: My point was, you have to know about the update and consciously go download it, as there's no hint or suggestion other than in the blog post.

ETA: This means nobody will "know about the update" unless the see the blog post, get an email, etc. until there's a message upon login or something giving users more of a clue. Just spelling it out..!

Edited August 23 by Love Zhaoying

[Istelathis]

It looks gorgeous, but so far I have not noticed an improvement in performance.  I think Firestorm actually runs smoother, Alchemy does.  It could just be my computer.

 

Linden Viewer (above)

Alchemy (above)

[AmeliaJ08]

Ooh new Firestorm in next few days.

The lates Alpha performs very well, I was shocked when I saw over 100fps in a store today, not the kind of environment I'd expect that kind of performance.

 

[Istelathis]

16 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Ooh new Firestorm in next few days.

The lates Alpha performs very well, I was shocked when I saw over 100fps in a store today, not the kind of environment I'd expect that kind of performance.

 

I'm not running the alpha, but the latest release and it does pretty good for me.  

I'm looking forward to the next release 😁

There must be something I am missing with LL's viewer, I'll have to play around with it more.  

 

For shoots and giggles, let's toss in a CoolVL screenshot, seeing that I have done three now.  My nVidia overlay is not configured for it, but you can see the FPS in the upper corner, don't mind my abundance of wealth up there.  Forward rendering ftw 🙃

 

Now back on to LL's viewer to see what is going on, and what I am goofing up.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

don't mind my abundance of wealth up there

Seeking donations? 😹😻

[Istelathis]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Seeking donations? 😹😻

I'm pretty surprised by how much I can get away with $300L a week, I usually just let it accumulate for weeks on end, then spoil myself with a rented skybox or outfit.  No donations wanted, I always feel weird when people give me things, then I feel like I have to give them something because I am indebted, and the only thing I really have to offer is a zombie virus, which is not always appreciated.  You think people would want to turn others into zombies, but nooooooo.. pfffft...

[discussionbot]

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Better late then never considering all the flak we have seen on the Forums over the PBR updates

Lmfao ikr? Nice to see they’ve finally acknowledged it , unlike all the forum posts casually insulting everyone who tried to convey their frustration about PBR’s performance. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, discussionbot said:

Lmfao ikr? Nice to see they’ve finally acknowledged it , unlike all the forum posts casually insulting everyone who tried to convey their frustration about PBR’s performance. 

Yeah, I suppose it's a vindication of a sort (and it's odd how all of the voices huffing that "It's just a few whiners and complainers" have gone quiet now, especially in the Phoenix-Firestorm group).

But the really important thing is simply that they've committed to fixing it.

And that, mirabile dictu, they are actually communicating with us.

[discussionbot]

33 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, I suppose it's a vindication of a sort (and it's odd how all of the voices huffing that "It's just a few whiners and complainers" have gone quiet now, especially in the Phoenix-Firestorm group).

But the really important thing is simply that they've committed to fixing it.

And that, mirabile dictu, they are actually communicating with us.

Indeed, grew weary of the endless tirade against anyone who dared to express even a modicum of frustration around PBR’s performance. How very dare they! Shut up and kiss the ring.

PS. Love me some Latin! Verba volant, scripta manent.

[Ceka Cianci]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Good point: My point was, you have to know about the update and consciously go download it, as there's no hint or suggestion other than in the blog post.

ETA: This means nobody will "know about the update" unless the see the blog post, get an email, etc. until there's a message upon login or something giving users more of a clue. Just spelling it out..!

This was the main part that I  posted by itself at first, but thought I should edit my post and add the whole thing to show where it was..

That there eventually will be.

"If you don’t update proactively now, you’ll soon see a prompt when you go to login to Second Life in the coming days encouraging you to update."

[Ceka Cianci]

57 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, I suppose it's a vindication of a sort (and it's odd how all of the voices huffing that "It's just a few whiners and complainers" have gone quiet now, especially in the Phoenix-Firestorm group).

But the really important thing is simply that they've committed to fixing it.

And that, mirabile dictu, they are actually communicating with us.

From what I remember, wasn't there something where they said this was like a first draft and that they would be improving it over time?

I can't remember the actual words, but I remember something  like that.. They may have needed feedback to get a good idea.. I couldn't see them really bailing on so many customers.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

14 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

From what I remember, wasn't there something where they said this was like a first draft and that they would be improving it over time?

I can't remember the actual words, but I remember something  like that.. They may have needed feedback to get a good idea.. I couldn't see them really bailing on so many customers.

I don't recall them saying that at all, although maybe I missed it.

What I do recall them saying is that they had done a survey of user's hardware, and determined that only a small proportion of residents would have a problem handling PBR. And it would appear that in fact, they didn't even really do that properly.

Even if that is true, why on earth would they release a "first draft" that is a mandatory update, rather than field test it properly first, fix the bugs, and then release it? Or at least make it an optional update?

Whatever, I'm just glad they're addressing the issue now.

[Arielle Popstar]

38 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

From what I remember, wasn't there something where they said this was like a first draft and that they would be improving it over time?

I can't remember the actual words, but I remember something  like that.. They may have needed feedback to get a good idea.. I couldn't see them really bailing on so many customers.

I remember them mentioning something like that in one of the videos but problem was the forcing of it, especially Firestorm.

PBR is barely in a beta stage so forcing viewer updates was premature. Small Wonder that there was such a pushback.

[Ceka Cianci]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't recall them saying that at all, although maybe I missed it.

What I do recall them saying is that they had done a survey of user's hardware, and determined that only a small proportion of residents would have a problem handling PBR. And it would appear that in fact, they didn't even really do that properly.

Even if that is true, why on earth would they release a "first draft" that is a mandatory update, rather than field test it properly first, fix the bugs, and then release it? Or at least make it an optional update?

Whatever, I'm just glad they're addressing the issue now.

Trying to find anything in the search here is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.. I don't remember their exact words or what link I seen it from, I just remember something about them still having to improve it over time or something like that.. It was from back when it first came out to the grid, so I can really only remember they saying something about that..

hehehe

 

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I remember them mentioning something like that in one of the videos but problem was the forcing of it, especially Firestorm.

PBR is barely in a beta stage so forcing viewer updates was premature. Small Wonder that there was such a pushback.

I'm not taking sides on this.. I'm just saying I remember something said. hehehe

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm not taking sides on this.. I'm just saying I remember something said. hehehe

Oh, I didn't realize it was a debate. I remember our beloved leader mentioning what you said in his video. Maybe there was also something in the forum but it wouldn't have been from an official source.

[Jaylinbridges]

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Even if that is true, why on earth would they release a "first draft" that is a mandatory update, rather than field test it properly first, fix the bugs, and then release it? Or at least make it an optional update?

Like everything else, LL uses the residents to perform QA and give feedback.  It is just so much cheaper than having a team of QA engineers on the LL payroll.

And for some reason, internal testing never brings out all the problems.  Nothing is surprising here if you were following the tech side of PBR in LL and FS Jira's, but that means about 5% of residents kept up and the rest were/are in the dark.  

FS still gets ancients that are running FS on Low, because they are in some RP game and they think any features will slow down their kill rate.   That means they had all shaders off, no ALM or materials, and never tried anything more taxing than Lowest performance setting in Graphics.  Then they upgrade to PBR, and claim the world is ending because their skin is too  shiny to be a GOR warrior and FS broke their world.  They usually don't realize LL pushes the advances, and trying to explain anything to them is a waste of energy.  Now that they can remain on a non-PBR viewer forever, they still complain.