Cristiano Midnight Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: If its left leaning, i’ll be a lone voice crying in the wind It is very left leaning, but tolerant of intelligent discussion. Trolling and just repeating talking points and easily debunked lies, not so much. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 23 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: It is true that the forums do not reflects a lot of the population of Second Life, inworld. I think this is why the Lindens are able to make some of the decisions they made, that ticked off some of the people inside of the forum. I feel like they do the same thing I do, instead of going by personal feelings and opinions, they look at it as if they were someone else, in someone else's shoes and try to make a judgement based off of that. Like I look at things from others perspective and not just my own. Why do people want to come online and make this avatar or look, aesthetic? Maybe they want to feel girly, feel cute, look like a princess. Maybe they had a bad upbringing, so they want to experience what it's like to have a good family. Why is this person tall? Must be because they were either picked on or they like really tall people. Some people, for example, hate the anime community but in Second life, anime community is not as small as people think and people like it, they see people liking it. The small group, in the forums, are like "Shut them down." Second life is like "No... the community is just fine and we know about them. They're not hurting anyone. Same with Furries. Some people hate furries, but inworld there are far more furries than furry haters on the forum. There are far more Kawaii community than kawaii haters on the forum. I don't think the Lindens look at the forums as an end all to be all, but a way to just give opinion and talk about some small things that go on in Second life. It might not feel like it, but I think Lindens are far more active inworld than people give them credit for. Look at Kiera for example, she came to the meeting in kawaii fashion, comfortable hot pink girly outfit, hear done up in twin puffs, she came in cute and some people were like "Are you going to get ride of the kawaii aesthetic, what about BBG?" I don't think Kiera is a BBG but I high no doubt she already know about it, she's probably seen several people say it already and yet people still see her dressed, sitting there asking her if these things are banned. She came there a girly girl in an adult avatar. A very vocal minority of any community is represented in forums. Most people don't bother with them. Also, in much the same way that people are much more likely to speak out when they are upset than happy, forums are disproportionately critical compared to the general population. Most are blissfully unaware of what goes on outside of SL (or even inside it for that matter). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 38 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: I would love to see big discussions in SL, and there are community groups hosted by LL to discuss issues. I don't see forums as detracting from that. They are a different medium from realtime communication. It is much more asynchronous, and hopefully, some thought is put into what you are saying before you hit submit. The reality is that is not always the case and people vomit out a stream of consciousness and venom, but for the most part, forums do have value as a communication platform. I agree. The forums serve a different sort of role from in-world discussions. Because our conversations here are asynchronous, we have time to think out what we have to say and to chose our words carefully. (Yes, some people fire back posts too quickly and don't think about what they're saying, but more do.) That's why we can have some long, complicated discussions that last for days and fill up a dozen pages or more. Our words here are "permanent", too, so we can review them months or years later and can quote passages to build a thread. The raucous voices here are annoying, but so are the ones in world; the forums don't have a corner on trolls and idiots. The forums also serve as a clearing house for Q&A -- both as a gateway to the Knowledge Base and other official sources and (more importantly) as a way to tap the shared experience of SL users. I spent my first dozen or so years in the forums focusing almost entirely on the Answers section and the Creation forums, where I was learning about how SL works and gradually passing on what I had learned. LL's welcome area and many groups like Builders Brewery fill the same role in world and they offer classes and social events, but they attract a somewhat different population. I have a sense that the forums have more appeal for one-on-one interaction. I think it's sad when anyone comes only to the forums, but I do understand that the forums can fill a different need for them than life in world can. I'd hate to see that option turned off. I also think it's unfortunate that many SL residents never come to the forums, especially when they have questions about how SL works. I always find it surprising how many of my long-time friends in world are clueless about new features and policy changes -- things that we touch on daily here. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 8 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: I think it's sad when anyone comes only to the forums, but I do understand that the forums can fill a different need for them than life in world can. I'd hate to see that option turned off. I also think it's unfortunate that many SL residents never come to the forums, especially when they have questions about how SL works. I always find it surprising how many of my long-time friends in world are clueless about new features and policy changes -- things that we touch on daily here. While they may not come to the forums, there are more outlets than ever to connect and find answers to questions - reddit, youtube, discord, facebook, x, and other sites. Those communities do not always overlap. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 42 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: It is very left leaning, but tolerant of intelligent discussion. Trolling and just repeating talking points and easily debunked lies, not so much. I think you mean right leaning? LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 5 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: While they may not come to the forums, there are more outlets than ever to connect and find answers to questions - reddit, youtube, discord, facebook, x, and other sites. Those communities do not always overlap. That's a good reminder. I don't pay any attention to those other platforms myself, so I forget that they are also valuable for many people in SL. If anything, their existence broadens the argument that you and I are both making -- that communities outside of SL itself serve residents in different, important ways. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 In world there used to be a place called philosophy house, which was a fun place to trade ideas. The people there kind of reminded me of the well. All over-educated, but not that pretentious, and generally nice and helpful. The place ended up being overrun by tech bro types, and fell apart, though. I hear the community actually balkanized, and there are little pockets of it here and there, if you know where to look. I don't think forums like this are a bad way to discuss things for now. If moderation was really bad here, we would migrate elsewhere. Maybe VVO, but IME most people there don't really use SL that much any more. The secondlife subreddit is nice, but low traffic, which would be fixed if we posted there. I don't think traditional social media is an option, any more. Twitter is... well, twitter is X. FB won't let anybody see what you post, so it's pointless. I think Reddit would be the best option, if a migration was to happen and I could direct it (no migration is happening, and I can barely direct myself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 9 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said: I think you mean right leaning? LOL No, my site is extremely left leaning. It has a lot of long time users who do not put up with any kind of trolling or abuse. We occasionally get someone who comes along that does not want to talk about topics in good faith, they just want a reaction. They tend not to last long. There are some right leaning members as well that have persisted, and they have been able to by being actual members of the site who discuss things. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 2 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said: All over-educated This isn't a thing. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Cristiano Midnight said: No, my site is extremely left leaning. It has a lot of long time users who do not put up with any kind of trolling or abuse. We occasionally get someone who comes along that does not want to talk about topics in good faith, they just want a reaction. They tend not to last long. There are some right leaning members as well that have persisted, and they have been able to by being actual members of the site who discuss things. My sense at least from when it was still SLU, was that there were some who were overly sensitive to anyone posting anything that didn't agree with the hive mind, in spite of protestations that it existed. It was rather obvious to those looking from the outside. That may have changed since the site change to VVO and that there is some toleration of right leaning members is a hopeful sign of a changed dynamic to it being a little more balanced and open minded to other ideas. It exists here in the SL forums also but to a lesser degree and heavier moderation keeps it from becoming too strongly entrenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 3 hours ago, Cristiano Midnight said: A very vocal minority of any community is represented in forums. Most people don't bother with them. Also, in much the same way that people are much more likely to speak out when they are upset than happy, forums are disproportionately critical compared to the general population. Most are blissfully unaware of what goes on outside of SL (or even inside it for that matter). I'm glad you understood what I was talking about, unlike some person who just keep. 😕 my posts. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robberinthemuseum Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: My sense at least from when it was still SLU, was that there were some who were overly sensitive to anyone posting anything that didn't agree with the hive mind, in spite of protestations that it existed. It was rather obvious to those looking from the outside. That may have changed since the site change to VVO and that there is some toleration of right leaning members is a hopeful sign of a changed dynamic to it being a little more balanced and open minded to other ideas. It exists here in the SL forums also but to a lesser degree and heavier moderation keeps it from becoming too strongly entrenched. Most people I know are conservative leaning in some areas and liberal in others. For example; I lean liberal when it comes to all humans being treated with respect and dignity regardless of gender, ethnicity, physical health or age. But I lean conservative when it comes to tax, behaving responsibility, freedom of speech etc. I think hierarchies of competency are a good thing and I think demanding equality of outcome is a bad thing for society. Some of us are better at some things. Sorry, what was this about again? Forums? The forums are useless if people are afraid of losing their accounts if they upset a Linden. It leads to self censorship, the encouagement of forum sycophants and an echo chamber. I come here for the various personalities. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 I've found that you simply have to learn how to live in a chaotic world that you have no control over. The sooner you realize that the sooner you can find happiness. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaomiLocket Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 After some of you are done thinking about where you might stand with the forums there is a natural progression. Where would you like to stand with the forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted June 16 Moles Share Posted June 16 3 hours ago, Robberinthemuseum said: The forums are useless if people are afraid of losing their accounts if they upset a Linden. It leads to self censorship, the encouragement of forum sycophants and an echo chamber. I come here for the various personalities. Unless they're obviously drive-by alts created to spam the forum, or post grossly offensive/defamatory material, people have to work really hard to get banned from the forums, let alone lose their SL account. They'd get multiple warnings and forum suspensions, followed by inworld suspensions if they still didn't get the message. 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 On 6/14/2024 at 10:14 AM, Simo Vodopan said: I was thinking the same thing about the echo chamber. Its so much better talking to people in-world than it is on the boards. I rarely ever post unless its something I really want to post. If you want a more serious and friendly discussion with people its better off in-world in my own experiences. Both places have their own ways and views of things here. If anything else, its great for entertainment value lurking through these boards. Much of the time I feel that most users on the boards don't frequent in-world as much as others do so in many ways they can be out of touch with the goings on. I am out of touch for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candide LeMay Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 The forums are still useful for organizing actual information about SL - the creation, fashion, technology subsection etc all contain troves of knowledge that would be hard/impossible to find elsewhere. Threads in the general subforum have a poor signal to noise ratio. Between the graphomaniacs, retirees reminding us that they don't care about the subject that's being discussed and the overall mental incontinence causing threads being derailed into off topic almost immediately means that LL is better off ignoring the whole thing. I do feel sorry for the moles who are on forum duty. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 hours ago, Quartz Mole said: Unless they're obviously drive-by alts created to spam the forum, or post grossly offensive/defamatory material, people have to work really hard to get banned from the forums, let alone lose their SL account. They'd get multiple warnings and forum suspensions, followed by inworld suspensions if they still didn't get the message. I sincerely hope those who express almost constant worry, take your statement at face value and believe it. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robberinthemuseum Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: I sincerely hope those who express almost constant worry, take your statement at face value and believe it. Thank you so much for commenting on this topic. I feel a tremendous relief now that I'm aware of your hopes and dreams. You are usually so shy when offering your sincere opinion. It's a breath of freshish (kind of gamey) air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 11 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: My sense at least from when it was still SLU, was that there were some who were overly sensitive to anyone posting anything that didn't agree with the hive mind, in spite of protestations that it existed. It was rather obvious to those looking from the outside. That may have changed since the site change to VVO and that there is some toleration of right leaning members is a hopeful sign of a changed dynamic to it being a little more balanced and open minded to other ideas. It exists here in the SL forums also but to a lesser degree and heavier moderation keeps it from becoming too strongly entrenched. Nothing annoys a member of the hive mind more than to point out the hive minds existence. It’s understandable though, because from their point of view, there is no hive mind, every position they take on every issue of the day is a result of their well thought out consideration of all the facts. Interstingly you don’t need to ask a member of the hive mind their opinion on any topic, because you already know their opinion. You can only discern the hive mind from the outside. 😂 Edited June 16 by Quartz Mole redacted off-topic image 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: My sense at least from when it was still SLU, was that there were some who were overly sensitive to anyone posting anything that didn't agree with the hive mind, in spite of protestations that it existed. It was rather obvious to those looking from the outside. That may have changed since the site change to VVO and that there is some toleration of right leaning members is a hopeful sign of a changed dynamic to it being a little more balanced and open minded to other ideas. It exists here in the SL forums also but to a lesser degree and heavier moderation keeps it from becoming too strongly Edited June 16 by BilliJo Aldrin double post…. stupid phone 😖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: I sincerely hope those who express almost constant worry, take your statement at face value and believe it. That doesn’t mean there is still not a chilling effect on discussion based upon how moderation is handled. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 10 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Nothing annoys a member of the hive mind more than to point out the hive minds existence. It’s understandable though, because from their point of view, there is no hive mind, every position they take on every issue of the day is a result of their well thought out consideration of all the facts. Interstingly you don’t need to ask a member of the hive mind their opinion on any topic, because you already know their opinion. You can only discern the hive mind from the outside. 😂 People are ultimately tribal, it goes with the territory. Still the same could be said about what you believe about your own thinking and opinions. That applies to most of us. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo Vodopan Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 9 hours ago, Starberry Passion said: I'm glad you understood what I was talking about, unlike some person who just keep. 😕 my posts. Some of them probably do that on purpose to try and make you look like a idiot if you have enemies. Yeah, the more I age the more I don't have as much faith in people. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 13 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: People are ultimately tribal, it goes with the territory. Still the same could be said about what you believe about your own thinking and opinions. That applies to most of us. From what you have said about your forum, it seems it would be an active node of the hive mind. "far left" and "hive mind" are basically the same thing. As for me, I don't need to watch the news of the day to be told what my opinion on a topic should be. I can figure stuff out all by myself, AND, time proves me right every time 😂 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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