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About NaomiLocket

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  1. Alternatively. Nvidia have long since published titles like GPU Gems. :B Complete with both opengl and direct x shaders for every example. Dynamicly moving hair was as old as voodoo3 cards if I remember right at all, but for a time only tomb raider and few others ever seemed interested in implementing it.
  2. Thing is they never had to look very far. There have been several forums dedicated to artists in the industry as long as secondlife. The problem is more if they can be assed to go looking for an artist with the goods to be a consultant. Hell some of them have long since written custom shaders for viewports in popular 3D modelling programs. It wasn't unusual for a studio to make plugins for either Maya or 3D max as a tool directly in their pipeline for making a game. And now and then they would share their more private time things with the community. The challenge for them is if they can find someone available at the time at those places. The challenge for us is to be sure they are actively recruiting instead of hoping someone is going to bother to come to their site and request a job. When the usual stated response to people talking to outsiders about second life is "that is still around?" as a running joke, my optimism that any of them would bother chasing down the Lab for a job stays fairly low.
  3. Triangle strips are mostly about consolidating that index into the shortest size in as few drawcalls. It doesn't mean we don't have an index of verticies, however. There may be other reasons behind why strips are not working presently or maybe appear to not optimise like they are supposed to. I still feel it is a grave error that they are not seemingly to work or be used. (perhaps the sorting is the first place to look)
  4. Yet it might mean something, because the sides of a generated prim are also completely flat. But the setting references the wrong indexes in the list visually for the strip and crosses over a whole row to form a triangle. Causing conflicts, on top of the every second being inverted normal issue. So maybe it is actually a thing. (also the point of forming degenerate triangle strips is so that submeshes that are normally split are no longer split and form a single triangle strip. Meaning it makes sense to form strips where ever and on what ever it is possible)
  5. Game assets are a bit fluid. They don't all suscribe to the same theory. As an aside on lists and stats of figures used. I gave you two figures used in heavier titles that appear in other peoples lists and articles. In one of the art forums, heaven help me to find it just like you and your list, was a speciliased shader that made use of extensive splits in UV to benefit from critically small memory in the actual texture. Go figure, high splits would normally mean bloated "verticies" but the UV soup actually worked. It was based on a square enix publish of deus ex. But I imagine the thing would be built to handle that. I wouldn't recommend causing splits without a desired reason. But modularity and repeats on custom geometry has a distinct appeal to it. (eta: of course we could use the technique as a middle part of the workflow and bake down to a publish. but that would lose the small texture size.)
  6. Well maybe someone can. I heard a rumour someone supposedly compiled under Vulcan and got twice the rate. But when I saw that happen with that setting I figured, if that rumour was true, chances are they did more than just simply compile with a different library. I speculated maybe they fixed that problem for starters. Well maybe someone that is familiar with the codebase can sort it or help us understand what is exactly going on and where we are at. Anyway, thanks for at least taking a look at it seriously, Wulfie.
  7. I'm glad you liked it. I liked it too, find it fascinating even. I take it with a grain of salt, though, because every studio team is different on a vast timeline and they all develop differently. Consider sorting algorithms and a google engineer interview. I certainly picked this one because it felt partially dated but still modern enough. And the concepts are fairly solid and concepts age better than some other things. Yes, historically there was one time I went off the rails on purpose in a particular thread to see how far some usual suspects would go. And I raised that point myself on people creating for the context of the asset not the location. But that is a natural thing here. It doesn't negate the responsibilty the Lab has to us in code. 99% of everything is at the mercy of it. It doesn't change the fact that artists are at the very end of the blame spectrum. Which Eric subtly pointed out. He was a technical artist in the middle of artists and programmers and told the artists to ask the level designer. Because they outlined the requirements. The merchants have customers. I imagine from casual observation there is sometimes as much trouble talking to merchants as customers as there are artists talking to programmers. But not always, some of them are actually kinda nice! Second life is like. Well. A very dysfunctional studio of hybrid level designers and artists. But if people give up getting the Lab to treat content management, rendering pipelines, and their data structures as an artform itself we will never see it improve as gamers have seen theirs improve constantly. And it isn't like the Lab hasn't done work ever. They talk about it now and then when they have something significant. But it has been sixteen years. I mean really.
  8. Yeah exactly. I turned that debug setting on from false (which it was defaulted) and my display on both mesh and generated prims became corrupted in terrible ways. Ways that it shouldn't. If you can explain any condition I can adjust myself that could be the cause, that would be appreciated. I don't doubt OpenGL, I know it is a library. I know it supports features and handles some things natively. And I also know that an application vendor actually has to make use of it, not just compile it or just write glsl. They have to actually implement some application level code. (which I know you know) Seeing as you've just linked a feature in a previous build. I'll just tell you now without a screenshot. I turned on the option and noticed the "problem". So I wanted confirmation. This is suggesting that it did not and favoured lists.
  9. There is literally no reason why I should have to provide sources in a sea of people feeling to debate optimisation. They should have already researched it and either be able to provide additional information or simply accept it. But as you wish, here is the opinionated helpful tips of one dude from one studio. That happens to be linked from the Polycount forums. That happen to be an active art community that is industry focused and participated in the old domination war competitions that were to scout up coming talent. That also happen to be among the groups that were into the whole limited sub 150 triangle mini speed competitions as well. IMO small triangle targets are back in fashion mainly for three things. 1) Practice 2) Mobile and ARM 3) Stylisic reasons. Mr Eric talks drawcalls, texture memory, transform vs fill bound. and blame shifting you should take with a grain of salt but some truth. artists talk among themselves. Also a link to a nvidia white paper. because industry.
  10. That matters when the engine works as it should. Bending the work to work for an engine that runs like sand instead of fuel in the tank just means in general we suffer the performance and lack of enjoyment no matter, always. It won't improve for as long as people pretend there isn't a problem with it and bend content to those problems. As a contrast, Digital Extremes reworked their IP and built their own particle engine from the ground up when they didn't like the direction a vendor went for their purposes. On the same hardware not only did they give twice the graphical goodies but also twice the performance. SL can barely handle thousands of particles, but they can do millions. On the same hardware. I am just going to double stress that point.
  11. The latter, the wiki link. The basic fact has everything to do with it. The card manufacturers and Nvidia in particular along with the studios over the years have explicitly gone to that direction. That is why crysis boasts 3 million triangles for a scene and handles fine for its target. That is also why the larger ships of star citizen were rumoured to be ~7million on their own. They don't care about the triangle count. They care about how they are used. Which is also why a lot of factors actually cull the amount of triangles processed anyway. Triangle stripping makes the draw calls efficient. It batches the work. The more that exist and are put in the strip for efficiency is where the optimisation is. Not the total number of them. Shaving off triangles for 4fps is a waste of effort and time, and that is why they go more for things that impact to a greater extent - in code..
  12. Also if I remember from previous readings on complexity and display metrics. There was no mention of it actually representing the work "your" card load is doing. Just that it uses this feature, that feature, and comes up with a "figure". Our rending load changes with the wind of our camera direction. Which is more a level designers direction than an individual asset. I guess Penny does partially imply that in the OP at least.
  13. Before anyone keeps beating the optimised horse, I'd like confirmation if triangle stripping actually works in secondlife like it was supposed to since 2005. If it doesn't I don't care for any opinion on triangle counts and optimisation. Triangles are the base unit that all modern cards are made to handle best at great quantity. The industry went to great length to make it that way. They are more concerned about draw calls and memory when it is texture bound issue (but not always). So. Does second life triangle strip effectively and properly including using degenerate triangles for the same material?
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