So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Flea Yatsenko]

53 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body.    How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body?  

This is actually a really good thing. It means if you want to continue to play as a child, you have to actually go out and buy something specific to play as a child AV. It makes it a lot more difficult to accuse someone of wrongly being accused of being a child AV. It makes being a child AV opt in. I.E. you have to explicitly become a child AV.

It also segregates child AVs and what they can wear with the modesty layer and stuff. I was originally worried this was going to turn into "well you're playing an AV that's 22 but you look 17 to me so I'm going to AR you." Now it's basically the people who are being legit non-perv underage AVs will just buy into the child AV only ecosystem, and the ones that are going to do things like make Belleza Jake look 12 and then going "haha I'm actually a 4,302 year old elf! Lets AP!" will get the "uhhh no sorry you're wearing the wrong AV, reported"

Honestly I view this as a hard reset on child AVs and it's much needed. This thread is so long because the line between adult and child AV isn't clear. With modesty layers and only updated child bodies supporting it, it's going to be awfully obvious what should and shouldn't be a child AV.

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

. Will be posted in a dedicated avatar discussion, or someone will AR me.

FYI, Forum "reports" are not "AR's", they are just reporting "the post". ("AR's" are more for in-world activities.)

You have to be a pretty bad / repeat offender to get "banned" for simple Forum posts. I know! 

Anyway, I saw part of the point of your post was "the boy was not wearing a top".  Bold!

Edited May 7 by Love Zhaoying

[Madi Melodious]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

.  If you want to control your teenish child in SL, use the invisible option on the collar and leash.

My typist just muttered something under her breath about bottle of rino tranq and a dart gun.

[Chery Amore]

I'm just going to say that I hope some creators get on the ball. 

I hope mesh bodies can be made and they can be worn with BOM skins as long as both layers are compatible with TOS. I am aware that people could do bad things with allowing for other BOM layers though.

That part needs clarification for sure.

I didn't want to quote off @Zalificent Corvinus though because she scares me!

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

Here's the thing: Creators must know what's actually intended and be under nondisclosure. Otherwise we'd have heard from them or the Lab. God forbid anybody decide to go into making compliant child avatars right now because the cartel is closed for business until June 30th.

but what is the constant flow of speculations going to prevent  if that  is the case? Nothing if you ask me.

You come into the thread calm and reasonable as usual,

Quote

I do think they need a Forums thread with somebody to provide official answers to questions that come up, before that Roundtable. Otherwise a lot will go unanswered, just due to time constraint.

that topic you ask for is made and will be updated, also with the answers for the patches as Tommy said,  but after that you seem to loose your normal calmness and patience you normally show .. 
it's all speculation about something we don't know how it has to be .. such waste of time i think. and nobody gaines anything by it at the moment. It creates more expectations and possible outcomes; that can only be disappointing as soon the Linden idea is presented. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said:

My typist just muttered something under her breath about bottle of rino tranq and a dart gun.

Well, I did control my young son with a plastic ring leash as I mentioned.  Control meaning follow, tp, whatever in the context of SL.

Or were you just being funny?

[brodiac90]

1 minute ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

This is actually a really good thing. It means if you want to continue to play as a child, you have to actually go out and buy something specific to play as a child AV. It makes it a lot more difficult to accuse someone of wrongly being accused of being a child AV. It makes being a child AV opt in. I.E. you have to explicitly become a child AV.

It also segregates child AVs and what they can wear with the modesty layer and stuff. I was originally worried this was going to turn into "well you're playing an AV that's 22 but you look 17 to me so I'm going to AR you." Now it's basically the people who are being legit non-perv underage AVs will just buy into the child AV only ecosystem, and the ones that are going to do things like make Belleza Jake look 12 and then going "haha I'm actually a 4,302 year old elf! Lets AP!" will get the "uhhh no sorry you're wearing the wrong AV, reported"

Honestly I view this as a hard reset on child AVs and it's much needed. This thread is so long because the line between adult and child AV isn't clear. With modesty layers and only updated child bodies supporting it, it's going to be awfully obvious what should and shouldn't be a child AV.

I agree and in the long run this very well could be a very good thing for SL if it does make it harder for the pervs (both adult and child avis). It's just going to be a tough transition for those innocent parties that it affects such as myself and will likely cost lot of money, time and effort. A lot of people will decide it's not worth it and will leave (quite a few already have) and that is not a good thing if they haven't done anything wrong. 

Of course, if any bad actors leave because of this, then good riddance. 

[Codex Alpha]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

FYI, Forum "reports" are not "AR's", they are just reporting "the post". ("AR's" are more for in-world activities.)

You have to be a pretty bad / repeat offender to get "banned" for simple Forum posts. I know! 

Anyway, I saw part of the point of your post was "the boy was not wearing a top".  Bold!

Can't get away with anything can I? No leeway for me, but only for thee.... LOL.. yeah someone suggested that male child avatars would also need a shirt too..

 

Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha
LOL

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's not rocket science and if you'd read my reply you'd know I said it would work

Yes, but then you go on to over think it and make it complicated when it isn't.

 

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

but it would make fully obsolete all existing avatar bodies

THAT is the WHOLE point. Old ***-play friendly AR Clickbait bodies declared obsolete, and being seen wearing one after the deadline will be a ToS Violation.

 

3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

not just skins

It doesn't make skins obsolete. BoM skins won't be affected.

 

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

the actual Policy specifically says "skins or bodies"

The actual policy was obviously written by a legal type who knows exactly nothing about SL Avatars. Why do you think they are reviewing it and will get back to us with "clarification".

 

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Moreover, to actually be effective it would have to apply to any body used by anyone playing an underage character, which is practically every mesh body in existence

Good luck convincing Reborn, Jessica 9, sKing, and Kupra user of that.

II know some of the more toxic AAR Clickbait would like that, but to hell with them, even LL wouldn't be THAT daft.

 

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Here's the thing: Creators must know what's actually intended and be under nondisclosure. Otherwise we'd have heard from them or the Lab.

You're assuming they HAVE heard, and haven't said because of NDA's.

But apparently one leading brand has said that NOBODY has contacted them, they heard about this HERE in the forum. LL's record on contacting creators isn't great, remember all those creators who were specially invited to Sansar and had no idea why as there was nothing they made that would work there, while others who could have made stuff for Sansar weren't ever invited?

 

10 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

God forbid anybody decide to go into making compliant child avatars right now because the cartel is closed for business until June 30th.

We'll all have to wait for Tommy L's promised "clarification/revision/sample pictures.

 

But it's fairly clear the intent is to basically abolish all the current AR Clickbait specific bodies.

Personally I think it's deliberate, a Zen Ban, banning without banning. Make things so difficult that the unwanted people just go away.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

I didn't want to quote off @Zalificent Corvinus though because she scares me!

i think she's pretty harmless 

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

does a supposed to be 12 ys old girl avatar need to wear thongs, string bikinis or "sexy" lingerie instead of these undies ? Certainly not.

real world shops are a thing .. lets just check what they have ..

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i think she's pretty harmless 

I manage to ignore most of her posts without any repercussions! 

[Chery Amore]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i think she's pretty harmless 

I've decided I like her ... but I don't want to be on her bad side!

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but what is the constant flow of speculations going to prevent  if that  is the case? Nothing if you ask me.

You don't remember the Zindra migration? A lot changed because of what was said in the forums. Not as much as we hoped, of course.

[Madi Melodious]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Well, I did control my young son with a plastic ring leash as I mentioned.  Control meaning follow, tp, whatever in the context of SL.

Or were you just being funny?

Oh come on.  Where is your sense of humor.  We have been "discussing" this for 5 days now, the thread is over 200 pages, we have beating almost every possible topic to death, and resolved nothing.   The thread is winding down.   We can get a few laughs in before Whatshisname Mole comes along and close it all down.

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

real world shops are a thing .. lets just check what they have ..

https://giphy.com/gifs/huh-steve-brule-dr-kc0kqKNFu7v35gPkwB

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said:

Oh come on.  Where is your sense of humor.  We have been "discussing" this for 5 days now, the thread is over 200 pages, we have beating almost every possible topic to death, and resolved nothing.   The thread is winding down.   We can get a few laughs in before Whatshisname Mole comes along and close it all down.

It was dead a long time ago, we are just now just trying to bring it back. However failing at it successfully. Lol 

[Alwin Alcott]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

You don't remember the Zindra migration? A lot changed because of what was said in the forums. Not as much as we hoped, of course.

Yes i do remember that, also some riots in the past about premium subscriptions and prices that were put back .. but that were things we actualy knew what was happening. 
Now we know nothing. Not even the real why.

Edited May 7 by Alwin Alcott

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Qie Niangao said:

You don't remember the Zindra migration? A lot changed because of what was said in the forums. Not as much as we hoped, of course.

That also created some of the weirdness and edge cases that we've had to suffer ever since.

As is always the case, they didn't know their own platform, made some rules, and got overwhelmed by the massive response as everyone with any kind of adult life suddenly found their activities could be interpreted as being under the new rules. They more than doubled the planned size of Zindra (sometimes skipping roads and niceties) and then spent weeks creating carve outs to stop the panic migration.

[brodiac90]

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

real world shops are a thing .. lets just check what they have ..

I'd say this says more about modern society's sexualisation of children than anything else. When I was growing up, children did not look like mini adults and clothing aimed at children was a lot more modest and innocent in nature. Didn't stop the pervs though of course.... 

Edited May 7 by brodiac90

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Now we know nothing. Not even the real why.

Oh I think the words "cannot be removed" in reference to modesty panels is a clear indication of why.

LL would like to be able to point at their platform and say "See, there is no child nudity & children are never in proximity of adult content!", (both of which would be an entirely positive thing for the platform as a whole).

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

https://giphy.com/gifs/huh-steve-brule-dr-kc0kqKNFu7v35gPkwB

If the argument is about policing what child avatars can and can't wear, lets take guidance from what can be purchased from real world big box retail stores.. oh look. stringy bikinis are fine.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

44 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

If I were them I'd make moves to very clearly label all my content as adult and include disclaimers. "This avatar is only intended for adults and adult use, using this avatar in any other way is a violation of TOS. The creator will not be held responsible for residents who violate TOS in this way."

And with Maitreya Petite, they'd add, 'And the fact that the breast shape is basically an exaggerated fantasy version of mid-puberty means nothing. NOTHING!"

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

If they are leashed, that is really sexual activity in public and isnt allowed on an M sim.

This is actually an interesting question.

Is it?

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, brodiac90 said:

I'd say this says more about modern society's sexualisation of children than anything else. When I was growing up, children did not look like mini adults and clothing aimed at children was a lot more modest and innocent in nature. 

That's your opinion, you get to dress yourself however you like.

But allowing child avatars to wear clothing that actual children in that age range can buy, in stores, in America, right now, should be perfectly fine.