Jaylinbridges Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said: None of those avatars look remotely like teens, they are all full grown men. Not according to the designer, who has been making avatars for 15 years. Teens have beards, and chest hair. They grow up after puberty. She will probably just remove the Teen section. Edited May 3 by Jaylinbridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: Yeah, but if someone were playing a child avatar they might want to take a bath - or not take a bath, and then run naked around the house. It seems to me that forcing clothing or modesty layers onto all the child avatars is really infringing on their roleplay options, when the vast majority of them are behaving innocently. Is it really that hard to just eliminate that type of RP. There are plenty of other RPing opportunities besides that. Also, my RL son used to play with himself under the cover at 3 years old. Shall we allow that. I mean it's all innocent behavior for a 3 year old that doesn't understand what it's there for. Edited May 3 by Kathlen Onyx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nika Talaj said: What? This is all LL says about the modesty layer in their "clarifications" page. I don't see any further description in the FAQ. I see no requirement that the skin be made by the creator of the body. Just that a modesty layer be baked into whatever skin a child avatar is using. As I read this, the modesty layer must be part of the skin, not a separate BOM garment that the avatar could remove to become nude. Every skin that a child avatar uses must have a modesty layer; if they use a skin that does not, they are not in compliance. Well if you read it literately, it does say "creator obligated to add a modesty layer", and "*may* not be removed," not "*can not* be removed". which would imply that as long as you wear the modesty layer provided by a body or skin creator as part of any baked skin you are in order. I think that's an important distinction from all that has been said here. Edited May 3 by Denim Robonaught Added last sentence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said: OH ok, you wore a lace bralette at age 12. Yes, clearly I was still playing with barbies then. I was wrapping my Barbie in ribbon in what I didn't then realize was a bondage look. 🤣 1 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Also, my RL son used to play with himself under the cover at 3 years old. Shall we allow that. I mean it's all innocent behavior for a 3 year old that doesn't understand what it's there for. Only until they realize what it's there for. Which in today's world would be about 5 yrs old at the latest. After age 5, no playing with yourself under the covers, until you turn 18. Is that what SL is saying? You can't play without something to play with. Edited May 3 by Jaylinbridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said: I was actually at that trial back in the (early 90s?) when the ruling was made for Ontario. Gwen Jacob for the win!! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quistess Alpha Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Dumb question I'm too lazy to check: Is there a Senra child avatar? Could/should there be, all pre-modesty'd and all? too lazy to check if anyone else responded, but no, subjectivity being a thing, one could hypothetically style a senra as a teen with the right combination of sliders, outfit, and mannerisms, (which I would say is true of almost all generic mesh bodies) but there is no version of it specifically built for people who wish to present as children. IMHO I'd say there ought to be, if only as a standard example of how the new required features might work (permanent alpha-cuts around the no-no areas seems the easiest to me?) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serena Stroikavskoi Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 My opinion is it should be Lindens responsibly and obviously they are taking it very seriously by recent events. Bottom line is if you play a child avi it should not be 'genetically' correct and participate in "age based" play on things that are clearly adult content and/or within adult regions. I have a mini me and she is clearly a child and played as such. If you want to dance with the dragon and interact within adult themes then be an adult and show some maturity. Quote A child is a human being between the stages of birth and puberty, or between the developmental period of infancy and puberty. It may also refer to an unborn human being. The legal definition of child generally refers to a minor, otherwise known as a person younger than the age of majority. Just be aware of how you play and project yourself, that's how "Sweetie" was born to catch child predators. I'm sure they are alive and well within all virtual worlds and not just SL. Which in light of recent events I'm sure would have been in the news about arrest if the claims had any legal ramifications. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said: too lazy to check if anyone else responded, but no, subjectivity being a thing, one could hypothetically style a senra as a teen with the right combination of sliders, outfit, and mannerisms, (which I would say is true of almost all generic mesh bodies) but there is no version of it specifically built for people who wish to present as children. IMHO I'd say there ought to be, if only as a standard example of how the new required features might work (permanent alpha-cuts around the no-no areas seems the easiest to me?) I thinks this is a great point. If LL is requiring a modesty layer on a child avi then they should provide one for free like the other senra avatars. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) Y'know, my guess is none of these new policies will have the slightest effect on the small number of folks who are doing sexual *****. Unless there actually were some Lindens involved, which cases will be handled more directly. I mean, sexual ***** has already been banned for years. Therefore, those who are doing it are already in hiding somewhere. If I wanted to hide sexual *****, I wouldn't bother with an adult region. There are lots more moderate regions, and that's where I'd be, in a remote moderate private region that is restricted to group, high up in a big skydome. Someplace where everyone permitted there can wear whatever they want, and do whatever pervy things their dirty souls desire. Far from prying eyes. Edited May 3 by Nika Talaj 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) I am pretty sure that their is way to know if a child avi is in compliance. In open sim when Athena was believed to be a copybot body of Maitrya (I may have this info wrong) there were certain grids that a pop up came up that said you were not allowed to wear Athena on this grid. You will be disconnected from the grid. Come back after you remove Athena. Point being that if you are not in compliance a warning message should be given. Again, I am sure I got some info jumbled but that was the gist of it. @Arielle Popstar probably has the correct info. Edited May 3 by Kathlen Onyx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 10 minutes ago, Serena Stroikavskoi said: My opinion is it should be Lindens responsibly and obviously they are taking it very seriously by recent events. Bottom line is if you play a child avi it should not be 'genetically' correct and participate in "age based" play on things that are clearly adult content and/or within adult regions. I have a mini me and she is clearly a child and played as such. If you want to dance with the dragon and interact within adult themes then be an adult and show some maturity. Just be aware of how you play and project yourself, that's how "Sweetie" was born to catch child predators. I'm sure they are alive and well within all virtual worlds and not just SL. Which in light of recent events I'm sure would have been in the news about arrest if the claims had any legal ramifications. Given the recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court, do fetuses in SL also need modesty layers? 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Puddles Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: Yeah, but if someone were playing a child avatar they might want to take a bath - or not take a bath, and then run naked around the house. It seems to me that forcing clothing or modesty layers onto all the child avatars is really infringing on their roleplay options, when the vast majority of them are behaving innocently. My sister is struggling with this exact issue right now. The 'most naked' she ever got was for a bath, and was still covered in soap suds and clusters of bubble attachments. She's looking at trying to mod her skin (which she does have the PSDs for) to make a modesty layer that will 'blend in' with the soap bubbles.. but she's panicking a bit over 'how modest does a modesty layer need to be?' Crotch, sure... she's a bit like Barbie there already but sure. Must nipples be covered on a child av? She uses the "Male" body chest setting, does that affect what needs to be covered? What about the butt crack? How.. MUCH of the butt crack? etc. She uses a Tweenster body, so there's no geometry defining any genitalia down there, but the ambiguity of whether 'what she comes up with' will be 'good enough' or 'safe enough'.. And it's kind of emotional meltdown city. Funny how the Lindens got called out for wrongdoing, the Lindens found no wrongdoing.. but let's police the bodies of child avatars.. for a treat. Edited May 3 by Honey Puddles 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 31 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Not according to the designer, who has been making avatars for 15 years. Teens have beards, and chest hair. They grow up after puberty. She will probably just remove the Teen section. Or she could just rename them so they're no longer teens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Yay! I reached the end of the thread. It only took me 10 hours. 😆 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Why would a child even use rlv? And forced tp only works if you have an owner on your collar. Why does a child need a collar OR an owner. Of course it would be useful in rl, opps its 8 o'clock, time to force tp the kids home. 😂 I used RLV to have my kid on my arm, my back, to have them follow me, to tp them, or sometimes to ground them to their room. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Ravenheart Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) The only part that left me questing things was this: Discussion In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says..."). ---------------- How will this impact consenting adults using adult avatars that might call each other 'Daddy' or 'Mommy' because of their BDSM dynamic or they just use it as a pet name? If we look like an adult, are an adult in RL, use an adult body, head and skin, and show in all ways that we are an adult and the person we are interacting with is an adult, will we get in trouble for using a common pet name? Some adults wear pacifiers with their adult avatars for fun or raves, is that also unallowed because it is childlike? Childlike can be a lot of things, holding a teddy bear, wearing roller-skates, dressing kawaii and girly, and on an on. Some further clarification on "childlike" in relation to adult users/avatars would be wonderful! Also, how will this impact adult users that use feral avatars? How can you tell the age of a feral realistic dog or a cute cat? What about the MLP adult communities, people that use My Little Pony feral avatars? I think many people see MLP as childlike, but what if they are adults, using adult body parts on an Adult sim? They are a cartoon pony. This also carries over to Mobian avatars or other adult cartoon avatars. Edited May 3 by Theresa Ravenheart 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said: How will this impact consenting adults using adult avatars that might call each other 'Daddy' or 'Mommy' because of their BDSM dynamic or they just use it as a pet name? The real life lesbian couple in their 30s down the hall are "Daddy" and "Baby Girl" .. they are vanilla to the point of it being painful. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Good Grief that was a lot of reading! After all that I can only wonder whether (as I have in the past) Lindens actually use Second Life realistically or not as, clearly from their new policy regarding Never Nude Child Avatars, they surely mustn't. All those people posting in this forum about just having the skin complying as per Linden Lab's 'or' definition of skin 'or' bodies. It entirely depends on the body itself not the skin. Whilst I have never used a child avatar body so dont really know if this is the case or not, however, I would assume that they are designed to utilise BoM or at least the latest ones. Additionally, for those child avatars that use Adult bodies that do use BoM, this definitely applies. The rule states: Being fully nude. Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed Plain and simply BoM CANNOT be used on a child avatar according to Linden Lab's new policy rule above unless the mesh itself contains the unremovable non BoM modesty layer (unless I am somehow reading it wrong). Whilst the policy does state a modesty layer is acceptable being baked into the skin, surely this must be under the assumption that ALL child avatar mesh bodies (or adult ones used as such) do not allow for BoM. BoM is designed in a way that it goes over the skin itself. For example, I have recently being shopping for human skins and whilst some do make the skin as a skin, many have started to just use a BoM tattoo layer for the skin. This means that if only the skin has the modesty layer any person can simply override it (remove) by adding a new BoM layer over. Same with the onion body method which will also not comply. While BoM exists in its current state and if used on these Child Avatars, no child avatar can be complying with Linden Lab's ruling of 'may not be removed' as BoM can and will REMOVE any modesty layer on a skin (due to being designed to COVER the skin) unless the mesh itself is designed to have forced undies on the mesh that is not BoM... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Yes they do, but why waste money on the wardrobe system? just get a free collar and set up rlv outfits. It's quite simple, I can explain it to anyone interested. People are terrified of rlv, they are so afraid strangers will grab them and do unspeakable things to them. Well it's never happened to me *sighs* No pictures 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 35 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: Well if you read it literately, it does say "creator obligated to add a modesty layer", and "*may* not be removed," not "*can not* be removed". which would imply that as long as you wear the modesty layer provided by a body or skin creator as part of any baked skin you are in order. I think ,baked into the skin, pretty much means it's part of the skin and not a separate layer from the skin.. System layers are Bake On Layers, just as they can be used for mesh and consider BOM..System avatar bodies are also mesh, So I would think they would have said, A modesty layer rather than baked in layer, if they were just talking about a separate layer you can take off and put on. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Evergreen Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 I want to know about the hybrid avatars. I know there's another word for it, but the ones I'm talking about look like a child and an adult were grafted together at the neck. Below the neck, voluptuous woman. Above the neck, toddler head which may include tears and snotty noses. Are these adults or children? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 49 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: Well if you read it literately, it does say "creator obligated to add a modesty layer", and "*may* not be removed," not "*can not* be removed". which would imply that as long as you wear the modesty layer provided by a body or skin creator as part of any baked skin you are in order. No, when 'may not' is used in the meaning of denial of permission it means the same as can not. So in LL's policy update where it says 'may not' be removed then it also means it 'cannot' be removed. Has to be permanent. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: And I really find it hard to believe that someone is going to get permabanned because LL's records show they stood at the landing point of an adult sim for 30 seconds before realizing where they were. Sometimes i go afk for an hour before i realise where I am 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Denim Robonaught said: Sometimes i go afk for an hour before i realise where I am I'd say, Don't do that anymore.. hehehe 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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