So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

That isn't a child avatar dude.

I wouldn't make that assessment.

"Avatar" could be an encompassing term.

Animesh may very well be included, else, the goal posts and game will shift and the nightmare begins again or just gets worse as it goes deeper underground.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Denim Robonaught said:

You forgot Horizons community.

True! But doesn't really negate my main point. You still can't "split" a region.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following:

Entering any Region rated Adult. Residents must change to a non-child or non-childlike avatar to visit Adult rated regions.

That's actually a MAJOR change.

That Child AVs were previously allowed on Zindra and other A places was a big point of contention back when Zindra was being announced with lots of anger on both sides. That was what... 15 years ago?

I can think of some venues, even right in downtown Zindra, that effectively now must close and finally move to G land. There was a spot I spent some time in 2023 wanting to buy, but chose not to because the adjacent plot was a 'kids playground' and I felt weird 'acting A rated' even on 'A land' with that "next door".

 

[Tommy Linden]

Hey there!

I wanted to take a moment and chime in as the person who oversees our Governance team. I've seen some of you mention concerns over weaponizing the policy. I want to assure you that we are prepared for people who might attempt to use this policy in a less than good hearted nature.

We have a lot of internal processes in place not just before we take action on an account, but also as part of our appeals process. We understand that we are human, and some times even we might make mistakes even with our own intentions in the right place. We work hard to ensure that no action is taken without full and proper evidence to support the action. In addition to that, our appeals process ensures that not only does the person who took the action is not involved in the appeal, but that the process itself includes a review from more than one agent as well.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

I think if you set your preferences to G and M only, you can't teleport to A land, just like you can't search A at the search engine or the marketplace then.
But I'm not sure about that, it has been years ago that I made my settings.

Easy to test. Just log in and set it. That was still true a few months ago when I changed my settings on accident and could get to my own land.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Tommy Linden said:

Hey there!

I wanted to take a moment and chime in as the person who oversees our Governance team. I've seen some of you mention concerns over weaponizing the policy. I want to assure you that we are prepared for people who might attempt to use this policy in a less than good hearted nature.

We have a lot of internal processes in place not just before we take action on an account, but also as part of our appeals process. We understand that we are human, and some times even we might make mistakes even with our own intentions in the right place. We work hard to ensure that no action is taken without full and proper evidence to support the action. In addition to that, our appeals process ensures that not only does the person who took the action is not involved in the appeal, but that the process itself includes a review from more than one agent as well.

Can you also please update the policy to properly define what you guys define as a child avatar? 

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

They shouldn't use an adult body marketed towards adult to make child stuff in the first place. It's marketed towards adults, just like Legacy.

With the petite and flat options, Maitreya is perfect for someone wanting a tween to teen avatar.  There is much more clothing available for that body than the others, too.  Legacy can also be sized down enough for an older teen look.  Reborn, not so much.

Are we now saying anyone wanting to play as a tween MUST use a specific body?

[Stephanie Metaluna]

US Government: Boeing, Your planes are falling apart.

Boeing: We'll investigate and get back to you. 

<2 months later>

Boeing: Nope, Nothing wrong here. 

Does anyone else see the problems when corporations investigate themselves? Just me?

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said:

In addition to that, our appeals process ensures that not only does the person who took the action is not involved in the appeal, but that the process itself includes a review from more than one agent as well.

Unless forum appeals use a different policy than Governance appeals, that's not true in my experience. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, I definitely think that this is most problematic aspect of these new rules.

Yes, new skins will be required -- but (and this is just a guess!) I think that the new rules are more focused upon obvious minors -- "pre-teens" -- than teens. That's not to say that there is anything in these rules that clearly does not apply to representations of teens, but because the line between how a teen might be represented, and how a 19 year old might look is so very fuzzy, I think LL will be paying much less attention to that.

That's true, though I'd say presenting as 13, 14, and 15 would be a real challenge after this goes into effect if there's no dedicated teen content available (is there? My youngest avatars are like 30 so I have no idea, LOL) and they've been relying on regular adult skins/bodies all this time. This is, of course, assuming the rules apply to that same age group, which I imagine they should. 

This all makes me very glad I'm not a land owner with a public business. Good luck to them!

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

With the petite and flat options, Maitreya is perfect for someone wanting a tween to teen avatar.  There is much more clothing available for that body than the others, too.  Legacy can also be sized down enough for an older teen look.  Reborn, not so much.

Are we now saying anyone wanting to play as a tween MUST use a specific body?

But those 3 bodies also have a 3rd party flat chest mod. And I mean you can get a reborn to be small, if you know what you are doing. And to answer your question, there is a body called tweenster, that is for tweens. 

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

With the petite and flat options, Maitreya is perfect for someone wanting a tween to teen avatar.  There is much more clothing available for that body than the others, too.  Legacy can also be sized down enough for an older teen look.  Reborn, not so much.

Are we now saying anyone wanting to play as a tween MUST use a specific body?

Petite isn't teen, people think it is from the states but the average breast size for women Globally is an A cup to a B cup. Not to mention, there are women that do have flat chests so that's not really good enough to condemn them as a child.

There are several body types and not everyone wants to be extra curvy or thicc.

My body irl is a rectangle shape, I don't have a reborn body, on here I make my avatar Hourglass because people don't like my body type.

[Persephone Emerald]

44 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This applies, unless I've missed something, only to avatars, not animesh or other representations of children. 

LL might have to clarify that representing sexual activity with a child is a ban-able offense even if the child is not an avatar.

[Denim Robonaught]

Don't get me wrong, I do support almost all the rules about child avies. Having said that, not allowing kids on adult sims is just a blanket rule to make everything easier.

Like no more kids on any sims where weapons can be used.

[cocoanuts]

18 minutes ago, Keira Linden said:

大家好！我承认我还没有阅读这里的每一条评论，但我会很快阅读，并尽可能地回复。首先，我只做几件事：

• 条款和条件的唯一变化是儿童头像政策的更新
• FAQ是一个活生生的文档，这意味着我们知道它现在并不完整。当问题出现在这里并通过支持出现时，我们将添加更多问题和答案，希望能帮助澄清一些更改。

Given the complexity and sensitivity of this topic, I would like to respectfully inquire about the classification of avatars in Second Life. It's important to ensure clarity and fairness for all users, and I'm hoping to gain insights that can help maintain a positive experience for everyone in the community.

"In the context of Second Life, there seems to be ambiguity surrounding what constitutes a 'Child Avatar.' Specifically, I'm curious about the status of anime avatars, particularly those using M4 anime/ASR AOEN, who are adults. Are they considered Child Avatars? Additionally, what about users who adopt realistic avatars, like LeLUTKA's head, and customize them into cute Japanese/Korean lolita avatars, while still being mature in height and proportions?

Given that height or gender alone aren't sufficient grounds for Governance action, where do the boundaries lie for what's considered a Child Avatar?

Furthermore, what should users do if their avatar is reported as a Child Avatar, despite being an adult? For instance, if someone is using a cute lolita avatar with a Japanese/Korean influence, and they're in an adult setting engaging in adult activities, how should they handle reports from passersby who might misunderstand the context?

Moreover, does residing in an adult sim or having adult-themed furniture in one's home increase the likelihood of being reported as a Child Avatar, even if the user is an adult? How can users navigate these situations to avoid unwarranted bans or reports?" 

Please clearly state the definition of a child avatar." This is how we portray children's avatars" and then give examples of avatars like "toddledoo, TotsiTeen, Tweenster".

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

LL might have to clarify that representing sexual activity with a child is a ban-able offense even if the child is not an avatar.

This is a good point, as from a legal viewpoint -- I imagine, anyway -- it doesn't make a lot of difference (assuming there is no actual RL minor involved, of course). A "cartoon" depiction of sexualized a*eplay is still illegal in some places, even if there is only one person involved in that depiction.

[Starberry Passion]

I think child avatars marketed as child avatars should be what is a child avatar and adult market avatars should only be adult and should only be adults, you shouldn't be allowed to label them as child or use them as a Child.

Bodies like:

Maitreya

Lara X

Petite X

Legacy

Legacy Perky 

Reborn

Kupra

Peach

Gen X

and any other body that is marketed towards adults and have an adult appearance shouldn't be labeled as child.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Derender clothing of child avatar. Report. 

Nope. New policy says skins for a child AV need baked on underwear. So derender away and you'll get nowhere.

As for standing next to and reporting - they could probably suss out who was the instigator in that. Even my own logs tell me a timestamp on a teleport. I could probably track which avatar of any given two got it's current coords most recently or most recently changed it's appearance. I could probably write a script for that as a user. I'd be shocked if it's not just on-hand info for a Linden.

 

It's only going to take a few people making drama over this with attempts to be bad actors, and then the lindens stepping in and fixing things, for the drama to settle down.

We've had "OMG the sky is falling" drama before it always follows that pattern. Within a short while things settle.

 

 

Edited May 2 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Lettie Linden]

6 minutes ago, Stephanie Metaluna said:

US Government: Boeing, Your planes are falling apart.

Boeing: We'll investigate and get back to you. 

<2 months later>

Boeing: Nope, Nothing wrong here. 

Does anyone else see the problems when corporations investigate themselves? Just me?

From Oberwolf's statement: 

 

Quote

As owner of Linden Lab, I have initiated a thorough investigation, both internally and with external partners, to review whether or not there have been any violations of our company and community policies by employees, contractors, or community members.

 

[Orwar]

   On the whole modesty patch thing .. It feels as if, whilst the rules as written in combination with just a sprinkle of common sense makes it very clear that what you want to get at is 'no effing genitalia on kiddies'. But, also, the rules as written, does not in any way, shape, or form explicitly state that. 

   If it's an 'on the skin layer' thing, well, there's absolutely nothing stopping people from drawing nipples or ahems on a tattoo layer and putting it on top. 

   I'd very much prefer for it to just outright say that any depiction, 2D or 3D, of genitalia (and nipples?) on child avies is not permitted. Be blunt. Leave no wriggle-room. 

   --

   As for Zoobies, which is an entirely different question altogether because of how they aren't 'avatars' - it is my personal, not-so-humble opinion, that those absolutely should be included in the whole 'no bits or pieces' thing of the whole thing. There is absolutely no need for 'anatomically correct' babies/kids/children on SL at all. It isn't for fear of there being a child behind the keyboard of a child avatar that it isn't permitted, it is because it is a virtual depiction of a child, and animesh/prim kiddos are exactly that.

[Starberry Passion]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

LL might have to clarify that representing sexual activity with a child is a ban-able offense even if the child is not an avatar.

Huh? We are all avatars in second life.

[Butch Daddy]

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

LL might have to clarify that representing sexual activity with a child is a ban-able offense even if the child is not an avatar.

Reading is fundamental. 

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

• Visual depictions of a child or child avatar engaging in sexually explicit or sexually suggestive acts.

It is quite literally, the first line in the new policy list. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

I think child avatars marketed as child avatars should be what is a child avatar and adult market avatars should only be adult and should only be adults, you shouldn't be allowed to label them as child or use them as a Child.

Bodies like:

Maitreya

Lara X

Petite X

Legacy

Legacy Perky 

Reborn

Kupra

Peach

Gen X

and any other body that is marketed towards adults and have an adult appearance shouldn't be labeled as child.

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I could be wearing a Maitreya Flat Chest or Petite (and most usually I am wearing the latter, or Legacy Perky), and simply role play as a teen even if I am most often representing myself as an adult. There's no official "underage designation" here.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I am just not sure what your point is.

[Persephone Emerald]

43 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

A sim (region) is always 256x256 meters in SL and it can only be set to completely A rating, completely M rating  or completely G rating.
All the parcels on that sim (region) will automatically have the same setting. It can't have 3 A rated parcels, 4 M rated parcels etc.
The only possibility could be that two sims next to each other have different rating settings.
Never seen that before to be honest.

It's not unusual for mixed-use or roleplay sims. There might be a community region that's Moderate, but a residential region that's Adult, so tenants could feel safer with their Adult furniture. The roleplay sim I was in had the public baths and bordello on Adult regions, but most of the city and harbor was Moderate.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Butch Daddy said:

Visual depictions of a child or child avatar engaging in sexually explicit or sexually suggestive acts.

Thank you. Good catch!

Although this doesn't answer the question, which is what originally prompted this, of whether an animesh child or baby also needs baked-in undies.

Edited May 2 by Scylla Rhiadra