Revalue the L$ -> $1US = L$100

[Sid Nagy]

3 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I don't know about that.  Her proposal was to make $1 = 100 L, instead of $1 = 250 L.  Will that break the SL economy? The point is 100 L to some residents seems like $100, because they are really bad at math.  So they tip 100 L and think they are being generous. 

I would love a business where I could design 1 product, and sell 1.000.000 copies, at no extra cost to me.  There should a law against that.  

So SL is all about DJ economy?
The rest are just legally robbing the bank?

Mmm, I have Spotify and a working mic, somewhere even a digital mixing console I believe.

[Jackson Redstar]

and of course, in the 'old days' - pre 2021, LS could be a little side hustle, money for gas, some groceries , but now - anything more than 600 bucks, in the USA, you get in a for instance, PayPal account, is reported to the IRS - so now, those measly scraps of Lindens you did get, you now get the pleasure of reporting it and potentially owing taxes on it!

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And THAT is the missing element here, in the inane assumptions about "poor content creators".

 

"That poor content creator, they spent 20 hours making a dress and it only sells for a mere TWO Doh-lars! That's only 10 cents an hour! The HORROR!"

 

But wait.

That content creator has a DAY job, as a junior middle manager in some office, pays them $75,000 a year, covers their rent/mortgage, heating lighting food, utilities etc., and pays their $99 a year premium for their house in Belli.

 

They spent 4 hours a night, Monday to Friday, one week, after work, making the dress, they paid THREE Doh-lars to upload dress and textures,  SEVEN Doh-lars to rent a booth at a 3 week shopping event that starts on Saturday, they stick their TWO Doh-lar dress in the booth, and sell 1000 copies AT NO PRODUCTION COST PER UNIT SOLD, over 3 weeks, that's TWO THOUSAND Doh-lars, then they stick it in their MP store, AT NO COST, and sell another 1000 copies again at NO PRODUCTION COST PER UNIT, over the next two years, from which LL take a 10% MP take, so another 1800 Doh-lars.

 

So 4 ours a night for 5 nights, of messing in Blender in their spare time, gets them 2000 Doh-lars over 3 weeks, that's 100 Doh-lars an hour, and then another 1800 Doh-lars additional income over the next two years, 3800 in total, less Lindex Sell Fees, and Cashout Fees, before US taxes.

For 20 hours of hobby activity...

 

And 3 weeks after making Dress No 57, they will spend 20 hours making Dress No 58, intime for NEXT months shopping event and another 2000 Doh-lars.

 

So, 2000 Doh-lars a month, every month, 24,000 Doh-lars a year, in return for spending an average of LESS than an hour a day "working".

 

 

Where is that event where one can sell 2000 copies of something again?
I guess you sell baloney?

There might be the occasional creator who lands a 2000 copies sale with a product.
But trying to make them the norm?
Yeah, right.

Edited April 2 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Where is that event where one can sell 2000 copies of something again?

Depends on what you're selling.

14 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

First of all, people today can work from home if their job has that option.

Second, LL never considered SL to be a second job for anyone.

Third, if you structure SL to make it just like the real world, you will have killed SL in its entirety.  Meaning, that one skirt you got from a store like per se, Blueberry... instead of paying what... $300L for it, you'll be paying $3000L, or $30USD.  I don't know about you, but I am glad that no one is paying $3000L for a skirt from Blueberry because then not only would no one be purchasing Lindens for anything, but creators would seriously have to find a new way to get their secondary income as no one would be buying from them.

The bolded part is at the heart of the situation.  That some people can and do supplement their RL with monies made in SL is and always will be a bonus of SL not a given.

[Porky Gorky]

Regarding the devaluation of content as SL has aged, I think it would help to only allow people on premium subscription to sell content on the SL marketplace. This would increase subscriptions for LL and desaturate the MP of content by a huge volume instantly. With less content to choose from, creators could have the potential to increase prices.

Edited April 2 by Porky Gorky

[Orwar]

   I've known a lot of people who ran pirate radios on the Internet before SL was a thing, they had no means to take any kind of tips from their listeners most of the time; they did it because they had a passion for music that you wouldn't hear on 'real' radio stations, some of them made forums so that people could then discuss the music or make requests for certain bands or songs to be played. Some of them also made fake commercials for the whole 'radio' feel and just had fun with it. 

   Most DJs in SL wouldn't know what music is if it bit their face off. Most of them seem to take their playlists straight off of mainstream radio stations. Now they're supposed to earn a decent wage off of it? 

   Hosts are largely pointless. They can easily be replaced with a group joiner and a greeter (although personally I think the whole greeting thing is overrated). I'm not going to tip someone for saying 'hi' and gesturbating/info-spamming local chat away.

   Creators, as in, people who actually make assets that we use in SL, is a little tricky. If a video game development cycle takes a team of 20 people 18 months, does the price tag of the game then represent a fair wage for all the people involved and all their work hours? No, of course not - it's a digital product, you pay maybe $20, they're banking of selling enough copies. So saying that a mesh top priced at L$250 is 'not representative of the amount of time the creator put into it' makes no darned sense; their goal is obviously to sell more than one of them, not for each individual customer to compensate them for their work. If they don't sell enough copies for their operation to be 'worthwhile', then raising the price of their product isn't going to help.

   It's better to sell 100 tops for L$250 a pop than to sell 10 for L$500.

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

First of all, people today can work from home if their job has that option.

Second, LL never considered SL to be a second job for anyone.

Third, if you structure SL to make it just like the real world, you will have killed SL in its entirety.  Meaning, that one skirt you got from a store like per se, Blueberry... instead of paying what... $300L for it, you'll be paying $3000L, or $30USD.  I don't know about you, but I am glad that no one is paying $3000L for a skirt from Blueberry because then not only would no one be purchasing Lindens for anything, but creators would seriously have to find a new way to get their secondary income as no one would be buying from them.

30 usd for a skirt?  Who exactly is championing that?  Not me, in other words.

What I'm advocating for is that artists, in any venue (RL or SL) be paid more for their efforts. I never said it should be on par with RL wages exactly. Are you equating more with totally the same?

When people imagine they're paying big bucks for something while in fact they're paying pennies, this misperception does not help the cause!  So I stand by Coffee's proposal.

[Sid Nagy]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Depends on what you're selling.

IMHO it depends a lot on the bragging of certain merchants even more.
Don't forget some roleplay to be a top fashionista with staff and the whole shebang.

In a store where every few minutes someone new lands, there could be some real hot selling action going on. People standing around for hours or on a platform tell another story.
Events are mainly bargain and gift hunters.

I have 2 gifts on the Belli 5th Birthday now. I don't sell them for 0 L$.  I give them away on touch with a script.
What is the use of seeing hundreds of 0L$ sales in my transaction history?
If the whole month of giving away the gifts brings me 10 extra sales, I'm a happy camper.

Edited April 2 by Sid Nagy

[CaitlinParker]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

30 usd for a skirt?  Who exactly is championing that?  Not me, in other words.

What I'm advocating for is that artists, in any venue (RL or SL) be paid more for their efforts. I never said it should be on par with RL wages exactly. Are you equating more with totally the same?

When people imagine they're paying big bucks for something while in fact they're paying pennies, this misperception does not help the cause!  So I stand by Coffee's proposal.

No, no, no, no, no.   Don't try that.

That's exactly what you're advocating for, and the OP's proposal will kill SL.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

Regarding the devaluation of content as SL has aged, I think it would help to only allow people on the lowest premium subscription to sell content on the SL marketplace. This would increase subscriptions for LL and desaturate the MP of content by a huge volume instantly. With less content to choose from, creators could have the potential to increase prices.

Upon first reading your proposal it seemed good.  But I wouldn't want to place a barrier for entry into the market, as many new and upcoming artists might not be able to afford a premium subscription. However, this could help so many existing creators.  Tough call.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

That's exactly what you're advocating for, and the OP's proposal will kill SL.

Oh, okay.

[CaitlinParker]

Don't forget, Luna, SL was never meant to be a career job for creators.  LL made it that way for a reason.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, CaitlinParker said:

Don't forget, Luna, SL was never meant to be a career job for creators.  LL made it that way for a reason.

I was being sarcastic in my reply to you of "oh, okay".

[Sid Nagy]

2 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

Don't forget, Luna, SL was never meant to be a career job for creators.  LL made it that way for a reason.

Called The Lovemachine principle.
Let people do the work for peanuts.  Mister Rosedale seriously tried to create such a platform in RL.
Don't forget it took a dreamer to create SL.

[CaitlinParker]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Called The Lovemachine principle.
Let people do the work for peanuts.  Mister Rosedale seriously tried to create such a platform in RL.
Don't forget it took a dreamer to create SL.

I haven't forgotten what Phillip wanted for SL.  He wanted a meta world where people can create their own "Second Life".

[CaitlinParker]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I was being sarcastic in my reply to you of "oh, okay".

No... really?

[Coffee Pancake]

Couple of points ...

 

"this is a hobby"

The workload required to make a thing has increased exponentially, so has the tooling required. Once upon a time anyone could rub some prims together and call it a hat, but not anymore.

SL now requires industry skills, software and a high degree of competency with those tools. SL is also weird, so special knowledge of the platform is often required in addition. Things take considerable amounts of time to make, test and debug. As much as this might be a disposable hobby that could all close tomorrow for some here, it consumes the time and labor of a real job to make the content.

SL business owners are often working 60 to 80 hours a week, just to turn out something you all think they should be able to make in their spare time while doing another job.

 

"sucks to be them, they should get a real jerb"

You do all realize the kinds of people who end up in SL right. The name of the place is kind of a hint.

Some quit their real jobs to work here, plenty didn't have or couldn't have real jobs in the first place, and rather than wanting to support people who are finding ways to be productive and self sufficient......

Running a recognizable brand here is a full time job, and as anyone who has been self employed will know, when you work for yourself, you are never away from work.

Try working where you play. The fun evaporates pretty fast. SL is a high pressure working environment with constant deadlines, customer service headaches and fractional incomes that can be wiped out by one person leaving a crappy marketplace review. Burn out is a real problem, no one takes any time off (because they can't).

 

"everything should be cheeeeeep"

Even if we increased prices by a factor of ten, it still would be cheap, and that's not what I'm suggesting at all.

 

I'm suggesting that the L$ presents a high apparent value, and that this exerts a downward pressure on the entire economy.

 

Also ...

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by Coffee Pancake

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

7 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

Don't forget, Luna, SL was never meant to be a career job for creators.  LL made it that way for a reason.

Called The Lovemachine principle.
Let people do the work for peanuts.  Mister Rosedale seriously tried to create such a platform in RL.
Don't forget it took a dreamer to create SL.

You're misunderstanding the Love Machine principle -- it's not to get people to work for peanuts, but instead he encouraged people to become passionate about their work instead of viewing work as only a way to earn money. From what I read about it he always paid people well.

The complexities of the economy in SL is a separate matter.  Originally SL was formed for creative & fun pursuits, and the exchange of goods only came into play as it evolved.  However, I'm sure higher management believes the way the economy is structured now benefits them more vs how it could be structured to benefit merchants more.

[Coffee Pancake]

10 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Called The Lovemachine principle.
Let people do the work for peanuts.  Mister Rosedale seriously tried to create such a platform in RL.
Don't forget it took a dreamer to create SL.

Philip wanted to make a physical immersive VR haptics rig (which is is still perusing, see his YT channel). He did not dream up this mess.

SL is what happened when his developers and testers starting playing with the tools while he wasn't looking. None of this mess was not on purpose.

When it came time for him to put on his big boy CEO pants, he was charmingly terrible and didn't last long.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

You'd pay more for 'that one tree', true, but the creator would have gotten a decent wage for its creation.  How would it be an advantage for a creator to spend the extra time making 2 trees for you so that you get a deal?  How would that affect the overall economy except via giving the creator a higher wage for their efforts?

Well then, you'd better go out and "sell" that tree.  You'll need to sell about 2000 of them. Did I mention you are still earning on the original time it took you to make one tree. Imagine if a woodworker made a beautiful table and it just multiplied by magic without having to lift a finger besides making the initial table.   I bet they'd be happy.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

You'd pay more for 'that one tree', true, but the creator would have gotten a decent wage for its creation.  How would it be an advantage for a creator to spend the extra time making 2 trees for you so that you get a deal?  How would that affect the overall economy except via giving the creator a higher wage for their efforts?

Well then, you'd better go out and "sell" that tree.  You'll need to sell about 2000 of them. Did I mention you are still earning on the original time it took you to make one tree. Imagine if a woodworker made a beautiful table and it just multiplied by magic without having to lift a finger besides making the initial table.   I bet they'd be happy.

I'm not comprehending your logic here. Because those creating virtual goods can resell items then they should be grateful for this feature and be paid beans?

[Qie Niangao]

If it's a good idea to take the exchange rate from 250:1 down to 100:1, surely it's a better idea to make it 1:1, or let's make it 1:4.

But nobody wants to spend a minimum of US$4 for uploads, etc, so the NewL$ will need fractional units, . As long as we're going to have 2K textures, we should have high-resolution currency, too, so let's give three decimal places to NewL$.

Oh. What a coincidence! 0.001 NewL$ = 1 L$.

See what fun the central bankers have in Argentina?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

so the NewL$ will need fractional units

Checking in: Great minds think alike, I suggested this earlier (admittedly, it may have been hard to tell I was actually serious).

[Sid Nagy]

7 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

 Imagine if a woodworker made a beautiful table and it just multiplied by magic without having to lift a finger besides making the initial table.   I bet they'd be happy.

But not if that woodworker could only charge USD 0.40 for his table, because 500 woodworkers would produce new tables for the weekly USD 0.30 weekend sales or give them away for the 5th Aniversary of Bellisseria or at some Shop and Hop or Mancave event.

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Imagine if a woodworker made a beautiful table and it just multiplied by magic without having to lift a finger besides making the initial table.   I bet they'd be happy.

Imagine if a woodworker created 50 tables and only one of them sold. Because that's the gamble SL creators have to take -- not everything they create resells at a good rate, and so if money is important to them then they've pretty much wasted their time.