Zalificent Corvinus Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: Those people who are relying on SL as their only income will be out of luck when LL slams the door. They don't work for LL so I'm guessing there won't be any severance package. There was a case in the papers here some years back, about a "professional Esports team leader" Thiss kid, was 17 (?) and he and his three team mates in a "pro" NyteFart team, had a $4,000,000 sponsorship deal, he also had a Spewtube channel that generated about $28,000 a MONTH. He had his life planned out, sleep all day, skip "boring useless stuff" like school, play NyteFart all night, and stream stuff on SpewTube, and make about $500,000 a year, then retire when he's too old to be leet" say age 25, and live with his mum, in the multi million $ mansion he'd bought for her. Then the idiot streamed a "friendly match" showing himself using an "undetectable aim bot" to cheat, for the "lolz", and got banned for life from NyteFart, lost the sponsorship, killed his channel dead, and had wasted enough of his life on being one of the "pro gamerz " that he probably flunked school, and will spend his life working in Micky D's mopping floors. Yeah, some people can make a "hobby" into a career, but counting on that is a mugs game if that hobby is based on something as ephemeral as a computer game. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 50 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: You're complaining about being paid hundreds of dollars to make imaginary trees that nobody asked you to make. To make matters worse, if nobody wants the trees - or nobody buys the trees - then it MUST be LL's fault! "MY MARKETPLACE SALES ARE DOWN!!11!!1!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: 18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not attempting to compare teachers with artists. We tend to compensate those who are r*aping the world, grabbing as much as they can through competitiveness and trampling on others, much more than those who are helping the world. It's why our world as we know it is about to depart -- too much greed, too much value placed on the wrong things (hoarding), and not enough value placed on what would truly make our lives better. Expand I agree that our society often values the wrong kinds of traits and behaviors. I don't agree that ranting about this on such a small platform as this forum does any good to bring about social change. I'm not ranting...I've very calm. I think education so that people understand each others perspectives better is good, no matter how 'small' the platform. I always listen to the consumer perspective too. And indeed, I am also a consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: 42 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'd rather, as Coffee was attempting to do, provide education regarding the plight of creators and artists here, and everywhere. I don't think many understand the perspective of the creator, as evidenced by many of the posts on this thread. It never hurts to increase understanding, for all people. Plight of creators? Dramatic. Edited April 2 by Love Zhaoying 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not ranting...I've very calm. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 8 minutes ago, Modulated said: 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: Lets so some MATH - Say you make a TREE - You spend one WEEK on the TREE - Sell that TREE for L$199 because that the price set by the market. How long does the TREE have marketable value, will LL release new tools that make your TREE TRASH before it has had chance to earn the required amount? How many trees do you have to sell to attain parity with a min wage burger flipping job? 1000 TREES with a 2 year shelf life? That's L$199000 ! A whopping US$796 for a weeks work, of which you get to keep 60% after Linden fees and income tax. US$477 total spread over two years. (Which is pretty terrible, and doesn't compete with the min wage job that will include a corporate rate healthcare plan and other perks. You likely need land to show off your items and that gets expensive fast for outdoor stuff) What if this tree is a DUD and it doesn't sell, for no discernible reason. What if the actual SL economy is event driven and you have two week in which to make 80% of your sales for TREE and they want L$9000 to book a stall. A bad stall off to the side. All the good ones are assigned to the event operators friends. What if someone rips off your TREE and sell it for L$50 in the weekend sales. Expand This argument makes no sense. You are CHOOSING this , no one is forcing you to do any of that, and it's not necessity either-it's a choice. Choose something else that pays better. So people who advocate for better working conditions and wages, or more rights in any society, be it RL or virtual, are doing something wrong? They should just "leave"? I'm glad the women who changed society via gaining voting rights for women and equal pay for them didn't just 'vacate'. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Yeah, some people can make a "hobby" into a career, but counting on that is a mugs game if that hobby is based on something as ephemeral as a computer game. Yeah I can't wait for all the "influencers" that all quit their job to make videos on cuckoo clock to realize that was a pretty stupid idea. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not ranting...I've very calm. I think education so that people understand each others perspectives better is good, no matter how 'small' the platform. I always listen to the consumer perspective too. And indeed, I am also a consumer. Not once in this thread have you mentioned the consumer perspective in any positive way. (rolls my eyes) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: So people who advocate for better working conditions and wages But that isn't what you are doing. What you are doing is claiming that creators in SL are all "starving artistes", who DESERVE to make more money from their HOBBY, than from their actual day job. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Kathlen Onyx said: Not once in this thread have you mentioned the consumer perspective in any positive way. (rolls my eyes) Do I really need to? You and the others ranting against merchants earning more money have done a nice job laying out YOUR perspective. I'm just balancing out the inequity here -- me and one or 2 others who are actually creators here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 If all the peeved creators left tomorrow, there would still be hundreds of thousands of things to buy on the MP, and also in-world. I believe the peeved creators are a vocal minority. Prove me wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: So people who advocate for better working conditions and wages, or more rights in any society, be it RL or virtual, are doing something wrong? They should just "leave"? I'm glad the women who changed society via gaining voting rights for women and equal pay for them didn't just 'vacate'. Sure just detour the topic at hand with this stuff....I can't say what I want to say because I will get in trouble lol. But this gif says it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: 4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: So people who advocate for better working conditions and wages But that isn't what you are doing. What you are doing is claiming that creators in SL are all "starving artistes", who DESERVE to make more money from their HOBBY, than from their actual day job. No...I've described the attitude in society overall (a society that doesn't value certain paid activities as much as it should). This attitude also affects SL. It's ultimately an internet dilemma...do we allow the mega corporations to use us for free, or do we attempt to get them to pay us decently for our time. And 'hobby' is subjective -- what's a 'hobby' to you can be a real job for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Please be accurate. Was never trying to remind people that most creator's don't make a living wage here. I was reminding people (or informing them if they didn't know) that there are complexities to earning money here, and that creators should be compensated better for their time and effort in creating the content we all use here to make our SL fun. I think the communication problem we seem to be having here is the use of the word "should". There are a great many injustices in our world. There are even greater injustices in RL than in SL. These injustices should not happen, but they do. What can be done to lessen these injustices though? Saying artists or creators in SL *should* be paid more doesn't help them. Making it harder for users to buy enough lindens to buy a bunch of cheap virtual content doesn't help them either. I bet most SL users don't spend hundreds of dollars per month in SL. Some do, but they're in the minority. The SL economy is driven by microtransactions of a few dollars or even fractions of a dollar. It's a vast number of transactions though, so the overall amount of money adds up. Which restaurant do you think makes more money? McDonalds or some fancy little expensive one? Many sales at a low cost and low price can add up to being just as profitable as a few sales at a higher cost and higher price. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Do I really need to? You and the others ranting against merchants earning more money have done a nice job laying out YOUR perspective. I'm just balancing out the inequity here -- me and one or 2 others who are actually creators here. As a consumer you know you could always pay the creators that you buy your things from what you think they deserve to be paid. Every single one of them you buy from. It would be a cool experiment and prove your point better than just stating it on a forum. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Prove me wrong. Prove yourself right. Your opinion is as good or worthless as mine or anybody else in this thread. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Luna Bliss said: No...I've described the attitude in society overall (a society that doesn't value certain paid activities as much as it should). This attitude also affects SL. It's ultimately an internet dilemma...do we allow the mega corporations to use us for free, or do we attempt to get them to pay us decently for our time. And 'hobby' is subjective -- what's a 'hobby' to you can be a real job for another. No _one_who_makes_stuff_as_a_resident_is_employed_by_LL. Do you not get that? They owe you zilch, nada. You know how it works and choose to make stuff here and sell it ANYWAY. Cry me a river already, jesus. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: No...I've described the attitude in society overall (a society that doesn't value certain paid activities as much as it should). This attitude also affects SL. It's ultimately an internet dilemma...do we allow the mega corporations to use us for free, or do we attempt to get them to pay us decently for our time. Form a union or any type of collective. Assert your rights. Complaining here is just farting into the wind. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said: Your opinion is as good or worthless as mine or anybody else in this thread. My opinion is MUCH better, in my opinion! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: My opinion is MUCH better, in my opinion! I disagree and I bet I could get 2 more people to agree with me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Modulated said: 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No...I've described the attitude in society overall (a society that doesn't value certain paid activities as much as it should). This attitude also affects SL. It's ultimately an internet dilemma...do we allow the mega corporations to use us for free, or do we attempt to get them to pay us decently for our time. And 'hobby' is subjective -- what's a 'hobby' to you can be a real job for another. Expand No _one_who_makes_stuff_as_a_resident_is_employed_by_LL. Do you not get that? They owe you zilch, nada. You know how it works and choose to make stuff here and sell it ANYWAY. Cry me a river already, jesus. It seems you don't understand that LL is the entity in control of this. They make more money (or think they do) by structuring things the way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: And 'hobby' is subjective -- what's a 'hobby' to you can be a real job for another. If a consumer has a choice between something that's made by someone who's doing it as a real job and something made by a person who's doing it as a hobby, and the products are equivalent in quality but the "hobby" item is less expensive, which should the consumer choose, and why? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: My opinion is MUCH better, in my opinion! I disagree and I bet I could get 2 more people to agree with me. Alts don't count! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: It seems you don't understand that LL is the entity in control of this. They make more money (or think they do) by structuring things the way they do. You are still not an employee while making and selling as a resident. They have bills to pay and a bottom line , they let you use the platform for arguably very little to sell goods and services. Just because it doesn't operate the way you think it should and you're not pulling down the money you think you're entitled to does not mean something is wrong here. I have seen no documentation that says they are a charity, if you have please show me. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: If a consumer has a choice between something that's made by someone who's doing it as a real job and something made by a person who's doing it as a hobby, and the products are equivalent in quality but the "hobby" item is less expensive, which should the consumer choose, and why? The hobbyist is more passionate about their work, since they perform the same work without expecting a lot in return. Therefore, they deserve more reward for their greater passion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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