Lack of friends...

[Calista Evergreen]

If you are new to second life...forget about making friends.   unless you know second life people it is hard to make friends.   its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

[Persephone Emerald]

I don't think the flaw is with Second Life.

I have no trouble making friends with newbies who need help navigating SL. I simply offer to help them, show them where to get stuff they need, and show them fun and interesting places in SL. Sometimes they then go on their way without me, which is fine. I don't feel the need to be with other people or constantly chat with others in SL. I'm more likely to get annoyed by those who constantly demand my attention.

I think the problem is more likely how we each as individuals define friendship and what we expect of friends in SL, on social media, and in RL. Probably the real problem is with us and our society, that we may expect instant gratification and attention from other people to satisfy our own emotional needs, rather than looking at how we can listen to and help others.

[QuietEventide]

Sometimes I think SL could do with one or two more relationship levels.
Specifically I'd like to see the "Level 1 - Acquaintance" level, like "one step below friend level".

Acquaintances would be for example "someone you might meet at an evening class" or "someone you talk to on your way to work".
But you wouldn't usually see them in your regular life and you probably wouldn't invite them to your home etc.

I often felt awkward when I got offered friendship within five minutes of chatting at some random public place.
It happened a few times too often. I ended up a recluse in the end. I'm seldom online nowadays.

Maybe I was being too polite & accommodating in-world. I'm pretty good in chat... which could sometimes be misinterpreted.
I just don't like being rude ... but I also don't like being forced onto the defensive, having to explain why I decline someone's friendship offer.

So, well:

-----------------------------------------
Level 1: Acquaintance
Acquaintances can't see when you log on but obviously they show up on your acquaintance list.
And you probably shouldn't see when they are online either. Because you don't know them that well.
Online status could show up as a green light when you IM them, if they are online (but not before).
This would be a good "starter relation" I think - for newbies too. Might work for SL mentorship.

Level 2: Friends
Friends can see when you log on (unless you mark yourself as invisible), so this is same as now.
This is a more private relation, just like a friend you have in RL - someone you see at home rather than at the office so to speak.

Level 3: In Relationship
This would be like "dating level", and it shows up on your profile as "in a relation with XXX" but not "partnered".

Level 4: Partnered
Partnering – this is a solid long-term relationship which also shows up on the profile as "partnered with XXX" (this already exists)
-----------------------------------------

This would probably also need an option to tick the relationship levels that are possible with your avatar.
Some people would probably want to go straight to friendship or higher levels and they should of course have the option to do that.
Others might want to keep all their connections at "acquaintance" level. Because, well, we're all different.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.
And yes, I know very well that you can make these settings yourself in the viewer, set online status etc.
My point is that newbies don't have the background knowledge of viewers and settings that we have.
So having a couple of "default relationship levels" might be a good starting point.

Edited January 29 by QuietEventide

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

"Level 1 Acquaintance" already kind of exists, when you give someone new your own Calling Card. I prefer to do this instead of accepting "Friendship", as a list of "Friends" who you once spoke to for a couple of seconds or minutes is unappealing and embarrassing when the so-called "Friend" never sees or contacts you again.

Edited January 29 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[QuietEventide]

2 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

"Level 1 Aquaintance" already kind of exists, when you give someone new your own Calling Card. I prefer to do this instead of accepting "Friendship", as a list of "Friends" who you once spoke to for a couple of seconds or minutes is unappealing and embarrassing when the so-called "Friend" never sees or contacts you again.

Yes, and that is a fair point indeed.
But a newbie would not automatically know this. We know it, but they don't (usually).

I was trying to visualise these levels in the "viewer user interface" to make the settings as logical and easy as possible.
But, I am well aware I might be overthinking.

Edited January 29 by QuietEventide

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Calling Cards is a much forgotton and underused utility (and lost skill) that is simply not taught anywhere anymore, even at the Linden's Welcome Hub.

Edited January 29 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Charlemagne Allen]

Yes, the only reason that Calling Cards exist anymore so you can see which friend you had in the past. The calling card will remain even if you remove them from your friend's list.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Charlemagne Allen said:

Yes, the only reason that Calling Cards exist anymore so you can see which friend you had in the past. The calling card will remain even if you remove them from your friend's list.

...or if they remove you from their friends list.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

Re calling cards. Why do I see 4 of my own calling cards in my calling cards folder?

[Clem Marques]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:41 AM, Calista Evergreen said:

If you are new to second life...forget about making friends.   unless you know second life people it is hard to make friends.   its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

It can definitely be challenging to make friends as a newcomer in SL. That's not your fault, or an issue with Second Life itself. It's a cultural issue that stems from the playerbase, and certain social norms that a new user might not fully understand.

These are the some issues you might run into:

• People who are suspicious of new players. There is nothing you can do about this, and it unfortunately plays a major role on how new players are treated when they explore SL. People are often paranoid about the use of so-called "alts" a.k.a. "alternate accounts." In that worried state, they might wrongfully assume that a friendly new player is someone they've had issues in the past trying to approach them again by posing as a new person using an alt. This might lead to unfriendly responses, or a lack of responses. It's not the new user's fault, but can certainly be off-putting: that general sense of mistrust from other players. The only thing that can be done about this is waiting. That skepticism will disappear once you've been here for a few months, or a year.
• People who ignore you because of your avatar. Having a fully mesh, well-equipped realistic avatar is expensive, and it's hard work. Not everyone can afford it, and not everyone is able to do that (youtube tutorials and shapes from the Marketplace help a lot.) Unfortunately some people might judge or completely ignore users who do not fit the current avatar beauty standards. Superficial, sure, but extremely common. If your goal is to make friends, I recommend updating your avatar ASAP, it makes things much, much easier.

            However, my personal experience with this particular issue has been pretty interesting. I looked funny when I first joined SL, yet I was still able to meet many wonderful, friendly people who made me feel welcomed and included even though I looked nothing like them.

             For context, this is how I looked at the time (after lots of effort)       🤣

          The modern Senra avatars help new users look a bit better right off the bat, but in a world where (almost) everyone uses Lelutka heads + a mesh body it might not be enough.

• Struggling to find good hangout spots. It might take several tries and some exploration to find a place you enjoy. Particularly one that has people you like and is active (Many "popular" SL venues/places are actually empty or filled with AFK avatars that don't really interact with others)
• Struggling to figure out SL social norms. They are strange and don't necessarily match RL social norms. A few examples: Don't sit on furniture that people are already using. Don't send friend requests without talking to people first. Don't interrupt roleplays uninvited. Don't spam gestures... and the list goes on. This takes time to figure out unfortunately, and it's a "trial and error" process that everyone goes through. Paying attention to how others behave might help. You might have a few embarrassing moments, but in the future you will look back at them fondly.

       Just like everywhere else in real life or online, there are good people and bad people in Second Life. Don't let the bad/rude ones discourage you. If they judge you for being new or for looking a certain way, they're likely unworthy of being your friend anyway.

And these are some tips that might help:

• Watching youtube videos about SL, or reading the forums. It can help you get a better grasp of what the culture is like within SL, what are the social norms, standards, etc. It might help you understand this virtual world in a deeper sense, and fit in faster. (This helped me so much when I was new)
• Visiting PG/Moderate clubs. They tend to have friendly, welcoming atmospheres and good music, they are good spots to hang out and casually chat a bit.
• Finding groups that match your interests and joining them, it's one way to find people who have things in common with you. I also recommend SL Help groups that cater to newcomers, or groups about SL hobbies such as building or exploring (driving, sailing, flying - people are often willing to take passengers with them on their trips. Great way to make friends)
• Checking the list of Upcoming Events (found in the SL dashboard page): There are are lots of them everyday at all hours, and my personal experience with them has been pleasant. They are often happy to welcome new people in their communities, including new players too. I personally recommend trivia (good way to make friends even if you dont like to play) or clubs.
• Paying attention to the weekend sales. Many stores sell their items (mostly skins, outfits, hairstyles and accessories) at a discounted price on weekend events (50-100 L$) It's a fantastic way to update your avatar and look like the "experienced users" without breaking the bank. Might help you fit in and therefore make friends more easily (shallow but effective)

If you feel alone or run into a bad experience during your first few months in Second Life, please don't give up and try not to take it personally. It's an issue that gets better with time, people will feel more at ease with you and approach you more often once you have been here for a while and it's definitely worth the wait. I promise.

It's not all doom and gloom for newcomers, there are many older residents who are helpful and receptive to them. Just have to find them! 

Until then, I'm wishing you the best of luck.

Edited February 1 by Clem Marques
Grammar

[PheebyKatz]

I'm seconding the above. Be stubborn, and give it time.

SL has people from all over the world, and they're from all sorts of RL-local cultures (which can vary even from city to city and state to state), and they're all on a platform that (to a degree) facilitates the rapid exchange of information. We also have some pretty expressive people, so you have lots of people expressing a multitude of differences, and each with their own idiosyncrasies, because it's not just a bunch of people, it's individuals, and every single one is different.

People who have been all up in that for a while tend to behave in a certain manner when meeting new life forms. Some rush headlong into meeting them and take an open and friendly approach, so as not to discourage newcomers, and some close themselves up and get all uptight, because "oh lord, another noob".

I think of it as accelerated socializing when someone who would normally hang out at home after work plugs into a night club online. And in RL, going to a night club can be a diplomatic nightmare, if you're tired and not normally the most social person, perhaps more bookish, into roleplay, and computers.

So just take the time to get used to it. Take the time for others to get used to you. Nothing of lasting value was ever built with the push of a button, it all takes time. Fortunately SL is a pastime, so spending time in it is kind of a thing. Makes it easier, having that built in.

[Extrude Ragu]

Actually I might play devils advocate and side with OP. Why?

I think there are less extroverts in SecondLife than there were in the past. The problem is that SecondLife now has competitors like VRChat. In these VR Games, Socialization is the main activity. With VR, Voice and Engagement are not just an option it's practically a requirement.

So what I feel is happening is that the people that are extroverts have started to move over to VRChat, they love it because they can constantly talk over voice and be socially engaged. Of course, the introverts hate that about VR Chat because being forced to be socially engaged all the time is basically a form of torture and a massive battery drain.

Just my opinion ofc. I don't have anything to back that up, just based on my own observations.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Clem Marques said:

   For context, this is how I looked at the time (after lots of effort)       🤣

I like your hair, it's like something I would wear!

[Love Zhaoying]

I think when a lot of us "oldbies" started Second LIfe, it was "easier" to make friends back then - for us - because we were less jaded, and without a reason not to, "anyone" could be a potential friend.

But over the years, you learn that a lot of people who want to be friends really aren't into "getting to be friends", more like "they want a friend now" for whatever reason. That plus, having friended a lot of people over the years and never "vibing" with them, you eventually become..picky. For the OTHER person's sake often enough, so they aren't disappointed when you don't have time, or interest to hang around.

So yes - I will make friends with people - but not "random strangers" quite so often. I simply have way too much experience "making friends in Second Life".

* falls off soapbox *

 

Edited February 1 by Love Zhaoying

[PheebyKatz]

2 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I think there are less extroverts in SecondLife than there were in the past. The problem is that SecondLife now has competitors like VRChat. In these VR Games, Socialization is the main activity. With VR, Voice and Engagement are not just an option it's practically a requirement.

So what I feel is happening is that the people that are extroverts have started to move over to VRChat, they love it because they can constantly talk over voice and be socially engaged. Of course, the introverts hate that about VR Chat because being forced to be socially engaged all the time is basically a form of torture and a massive battery drain.

I can totally see this being a major contributing factor. A lot of the more deeply-into-it SL people do far more than use it as a social platform.

Creative people aren't always the most social, but when they are, you've got the makings of good friendships, if you're also creatively inclined. There's so much in SL besides hanging out and chatting, it makes sense that people who prefer hanging out and chatting would gravitate to more chat-oriented platforms, especially if it's all (or most of what) they're into. They probably get bored watching people grow grass. I could build, or watch others build, for hours, but that's me.

I think this is also why so many people actually stick with SL for over 15 years, too. I haven't found another platform yet that could handle me as I am, give me everything I want from it, and let me socialize only when I feel like it, besides SL.

Edited February 1 by PheebyKatz

[Persephone Emerald]

I'd like to add to everyone else's good suggestion to write something in your profile. Say something about your interests and your time zone, at the very least. A picture of your avatar would be good too.

[Rowan Amore]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:41 AM, Calista Evergreen said:

its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

It's not really a flaw and not really something Linden Lab can do anything about.  Each person comes into SL.with their own wants, needs and expectations.  There is no easy way to make friends, no magic formula.  Making friends in SL takes a certain amount of risk.  You have to put effort into it.  Friends don't spontaneous appear out of thin air in RL and they sure don't in SL either.  

Do you have any suggestions as to how Linden Lab should "make.it easier"?   

[Polenth Yue]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:41 AM, Calista Evergreen said:

If you are new to second life...forget about making friends.   unless you know second life people it is hard to make friends.   its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

The new community showcase is a step in that direction. It'll get more communities on display as it gets established. But the general principle was there before that: don't look for friends, look for stuff you like doing. Join groups. Go to events. The friends part will happen when it does as you start meeting people. If you're not sure where to find groups or events related to your interests, you can give details here and people might have suggestions.

Here's the community place I mentioned: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/WelcomeHub/71/177/25

[Love Zhaoying]

There's the in-world "Thundr" app, I don't know if it is used to make friends or just for dating.

[Love Zhaoying]

I thought of a serious, hopefully helpful suggestion - if you are new to Second Life, your best bet is to make friends with other people who are ALSO new to Second Life.

They are probably looking for friends too!

You can also benefit from having friends that are "new too", because you can learn about Second Life and explore together.  There is a lot to learn in Second life.

 

[PheebyKatz]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'd like to add to everyone else's good suggestion to write something in your profile. Say something about your interests and your time zone, at the very least. A picture of your avatar would be good too.

This is super important. When I see an empty profile, I assume they want to be left alone, or they're a predator.

Also seconding the post above me, because Love makes a really good point. Making friends with someone who joined close to the same time you did helps a lot. It gives you a common ground that can't be changed on a whim, makes the connection meaningful, and you get to discover something new together, with someone there who is sharing the same feelings and understands what you're saying.

Having a new person friend when you're new is about as important as meeting someone who is willing to act as a mentor and teach you the ropes. I think both are integral to a good start in SL, and also play a role in normal, healthy social development. The relationships we make in here are real, and we learn as much from them as we do in our "realer" life and its relationships.

Edited February 1 by PheebyKatz

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

[...] no magic formula.

   Weeell .. 

[SodaGnome]

On 1/31/2024 at 1:02 PM, Clem Marques said:

 

             For context, this is how I looked at the time (after lots of effort)       🤣

 

Until then, I'm wishing you the best of luck.

I have that hair...it brings good luck!

[Clem Marques]

3 hours ago, SodaGnome said:

I have that hair...it brings good luck!

It's a good one! I got it for free at the Freebie Megastore in London City several years ago  Might still be available.

Edited February 2 by Clem Marques

[HeathcliffMontague]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:09 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought of a serious, hopefully helpful suggestion - if you are new to Second Life, your best bet is to make friends with other people who are ALSO new to Second Life.

They are probably looking for friends too!

You can also benefit from having friends that are "new too", because you can learn about Second Life and explore together.  There is a lot to learn in Second life.

 

This should be on the login screen or something