Lack of friends...

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

This should be on the login screen or something

 

Thank you! In my understanding, most "oldbies" like me made our best Second Life friends from our same "cadre", when we were "young" in Second Life.

I hope the newer "players" have that opportunity too!

 

[PheebyKatz]

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thank you! In my understanding, most "oldbies" like me made our best Second Life friends from our same "cadre", when we were "young" in Second Life.

I hope the newer "players" have that opportunity too!

 

It's like I said, it's one of two very important things. Much like when one attends school and is new, one makes at least one friend in the same year as them, and it helps a lot. It also helps to make nice with at least one teacher or faculty member who is pleasant and doesn't mind answering a lot of questions.

Actually, I have hopes that the new Welcome Hub will help to provide both of these, even if indirectly, through people meeting there casually.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, PheebyKatz said:

It's like I said, it's one of two very important things. Much like when one attends school and is new, one makes at least one friend in the same year as them, and it helps a lot. It also helps to make nice with at least one teacher or faculty member who is pleasant and doesn't mind answering a lot of questions.

Actually, I have hopes that the new Welcome Hub will help to provide both of these, even if indirectly, through people meeting there casually.

And in school, the "bullies" are often older kids!

[PheebyKatz]

19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

And in school, the "bullies" are often older kids!

This is why newbies form gangs, and arm up these days. It's derned scary.

Makes one nostalgic for the days when it was all just switchblades and zip guns. Oh, for simpler times.

I have body armor if you want some.

Edited February 4 by PheebyKatz

[Charlemagne Allen]

I help new players, and a lot of them are antisocial too. I help them get a mesh body/head and figure out stuff. Only a few that I add actually stay inworld.

[Lysistrata Szapira]

I'm an introvert, always have been, in both worlds.  

When I get out of nowhere friend requests, I turn them down because I don't know why they sent it.  I always wonder what the motivation was for them to do that when we've barely spoken 10 words to each other.  It's not like I can ask randos what their motivation is and expect truthful answers.

I do accept and send friend requests when I've gotten to know people over a period of time. I hang out at one club on weekends, and I've gotten to know the people there enough to talk about my real life with them and vice versa, so we became friends.  That's the way it's worked since I joined in 2008. Hang out somewhere. Talk in local or voice when applicable.  Don't be a gesturbator (i.e. allowing your collection of gestures to communicate for you). 

 

 

[Runa Wicken]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:12 PM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

"Level 1 Acquaintance" already kind of exists, when you give someone new your own Calling Card. I prefer to do this instead of accepting "Friendship", as a list of "Friends" who you once spoke to for a couple of seconds or minutes is unappealing and embarrassing when the so-called "Friend" never sees or contacts you again.

I've never thought to use my Calling Card in this way!  I don't like to add people as friends until I've bumped into them a few times but now I'll remember to drop them my Calling Card so I don't just disappear into the ether.

 

[Ajay McDowwll]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:09 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought of a serious, hopefully helpful suggestion - if you are new to Second Life, your best bet is to make friends with other people who are ALSO new to Second Life.

They are probably looking for friends too!

You can also benefit from having friends that are "new too", because you can learn about Second Life and explore together.  There is a lot to learn in Second life.

 

This is a really good point (and I'm sorry I'm just now wandering across it over a week later).  From what I've seen (I've visited a few virtual worlds, some longer than others, although I concentrate my time in SL), resident retention seems to be higher when people enter a virtual world either with a group they already know, or when they meet a group of similarly-experienced people while they're all still new.  I still have friends I met my first week in SL.

Shoot, I married one of them RL.

In the end the big thing with SL is patience.  Patience in learning how to use the software, patience in learning how to customize your avatar, patience in acquiring a wardrobe (I will admit I am not patient with this and I have SO MUCH STUFF... my inventory weeps), and patience in finding your virtual niche.  That niche may change over time, as clubs rise and fall, and other areas come and go, but you'll find yourself eventually surrounded by overlapping portions of those groups, and your circle will continue to expand. 

One thing I'd say is to never put all your eggs in one virtual basket, be it one community, one club, and heavens forfend, one person.  The one constant in SL is change, and having varied interests helps balance things out when one flies off-kilter.

[animats]

On 1/31/2024 at 2:18 PM, Extrude Ragu said:

So what I feel is happening is that the people that are extroverts have started to move over to VRChat, they love it because they can constantly talk over voice and be socially engaged. Of course, the introverts hate that about VR Chat because being forced to be socially engaged all the time is basically a form of torture and a massive battery drain.

In VRchat, everyone is moving all the time. In SL, everybody is completely stationary most of the time. We need more in the middle. Game controller support may help.

[Gabriele Graves]

Honest question, why does it matter if people are moving or stationary?

[animats]

17 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Honest question, why does it matter if people are moving or stationary?

Go watch Phia's "Virtual Reality Show" on YouTube.

I was hoping that the SL puppetry project would take SL there, but LL bailed on that project.

[Gabriele Graves]

49 minutes ago, animats said:

Go watch Phia's "Virtual Reality Show" on YouTube.

I was hoping that the SL puppetry project would take SL there, but LL bailed on that project.

Those videos don't answer the question though, they are just VRChat videos.

So instead of AO's making our avatars fidget around, there would be people doing their own fidgeting around.
Why is that important?

Do people really want to see other people scratching themselves, doing uncoordinated dance moves and gesticulating wildly?
Is that going to make SL richer somehow for those people?

Or is it that people who have bought expensive VR headsets really need to find a use case to justify using them?

These kinds of users are only really ever going to be a niche set in SL in my opinion.

Most people come to SL to escape RL limitations and/or achieve a sense of making an "idealised" version of themselves.
It seems to me that the more of the real world people bring in with them, the less they are able to do that.

On the SL puppetry front, I think if LL had delivered it, it would be used by some but would never have become the norm in the same way voice hasn't and for probably a similar set of reasons.  I'm not sure it would add much at all to most people's SL experience.
 

Edited February 10 by Gabriele Graves

[animats]

11 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

On the SL puppetry front, I think if LL had delivered it, it would be used by some but would never have become the norm in the same way voice hasn't and for probably a similar set of reasons.  I'm not sure it would add much at all to most people's SL experience.

It was striking to see the SL puppetry demo. Someone rigged for body and face tracking, and with a good microphone, came alive. They really were in SL, not just driving the avatar. I thought SL was poised for a major breakthrough in immersion.

(This was back when Facebook Horizon looked like a threat.)

[Gabriele Graves]

51 minutes ago, animats said:

It was striking to see the SL puppetry demo. Someone rigged for body and face tracking, and with a good microphone, came alive. They really were in SL, not just driving the avatar. I thought SL was poised for a major breakthrough in immersion.

(This was back when Facebook Horizon looked like a threat.)

I saw the same demo but just didn't come away with the same impression I suppose.  It was clever certainly but not a game changer for SL in my opinion.

[Orwar]

On 2/10/2024 at 8:00 AM, animats said:

We need more in the middle.

   Nah.

   Using a controller with SL makes no sense anyway, a lot (I almost dare say 'most') people communicate through text only, and controllers are just outright inferior to keyboards for writing; I wouldn't sacrifice communication for slightly more animated avatars. 

   Besides, avatars what walk around 'too much' just immediately look like they're noobs who've yet to master how to navigate in SL. I.e how to sit on a distant object rather than running up to it, or camming over to where you want to look.

[Kalegthepsionicist]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:41 PM, Calista Evergreen said:

If you are new to second life...forget about making friends.   unless you know second life people it is hard to make friends.   its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

agree

.acrually i think finding friend in sl is wrong, rhe best way is goto social mrdia like intagram ot facebook

Edited February 14 by Kalegthepsionicist

[Kalegthepsionicist]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:06 PM, QuietEventide said:

Sometimes I think SL could do with one or two more relationship levels.
Specifically I'd like to see the "Level 1 - Acquaintance" level, like "one step below friend level".

Acquaintances would be for example "someone you might meet at an evening class" or "someone you talk to on your way to work".
But you wouldn't usually see them in your regular life and you probably wouldn't invite them to your home etc.

I often felt awkward when I got offered friendship within five minutes of chatting at some random public place.
It happened a few times too often. I ended up a recluse in the end. I'm seldom online nowadays.

Maybe I was being too polite & accommodating in-world. I'm pretty good in chat... which could sometimes be misinterpreted.
I just don't like being rude ... but I also don't like being forced onto the defensive, having to explain why I decline someone's friendship offer.

So, well:

-----------------------------------------
Level 1: Acquaintance
Acquaintances can't see when you log on but obviously they show up on your acquaintance list.
And you probably shouldn't see when they are online either. Because you don't know them that well.
Online status could show up as a green light when you IM them, if they are online (but not before).
This would be a good "starter relation" I think - for newbies too. Might work for SL mentorship.

Level 2: Friends
Friends can see when you log on (unless you mark yourself as invisible), so this is same as now.
This is a more private relation, just like a friend you have in RL - someone you see at home rather than at the office so to speak.

Level 3: In Relationship
This would be like "dating level", and it shows up on your profile as "in a relation with XXX" but not "partnered".

Level 4: Partnered
Partnering – this is a solid long-term relationship which also shows up on the profile as "partnered with XXX" (this already exists)
-----------------------------------------

This would probably also need an option to tick the relationship levels that are possible with your avatar.
Some people would probably want to go straight to friendship or higher levels and they should of course have the option to do that.
Others might want to keep all their connections at "acquaintance" level. Because, well, we're all different.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.
And yes, I know very well that you can make these settings yourself in the viewer, set online status etc.
My point is that newbies don't have the background knowledge of viewers and settings that we have.
So having a couple of "default relationship levels" might be a good starting point.

you are overthinkng.

remember sl is virtual world so when people over u friendship after 5 min meet it is NORMAL.

second most people I met in SL is not themself,( gender play, *****, lie about themself), I dont consider some fantasy virtual human as friend. I call them game mate.

most people I met in SL is not really want be friend they just look someone to do activity while stay anonym.

anonym isnt friend.

when you treat sl not too serious you will be more happy.

 

Edited February 14 by Kalegthepsionicist

[PheebyKatz]

On 2/11/2024 at 3:49 PM, Orwar said:

   Nah.

   Using a controller with SL makes no sense anyway, a lot (I almost dare say 'most') people communicate through text only, and controllers are just outright inferior to keyboards for writing; I wouldn't sacrifice communication for slightly more animated avatars. 

   Besides, avatars what walk around 'too much' just immediately look like they're noobs who've yet to master how to navigate in SL. I.e how to sit on a distant object rather than running up to it, or camming over to where you want to look.

It may be a bit sad, because I remember how much fun I had exploring with Always Run enabled, highjumping literally everywhere I went (I still do this a lot, though), etc., but Orwar is 100% correct, in my opinion, on both of these points. It's not some evil, negative thing that makes it so, either, it's just the difference between people who are used to SL and people who are not. The fact that you'd have to walk on everyone in clubs and act like you don't know to move properly in order to pass as a new person and not an alt is proof of this. It's just natural law inworld.

4 hours ago, Kalegthepsionicist said:

you are overthinkng.

remember sl is virtual world so when people over u friendship after 5 min meet it is NORMAL.

second most people I met in SL is not themself,( gender play, *****, lie about themself), I dont consider some fantasy virtual human as friend. I call them game mate.

most people I met in SL is not really want be friend they just look someone to do activity while stay anonym.

anonym isnt friend.

when you treat sl not too serious you will be more happy.

 

While I do not always see things as Kaleg does (I have no problem with people being whatever they want to be, for example), and I know there's a bit of linguistic disconnect for many of the forum users, he is speaking the truth far as I can agree with it on the rest.

Don't overthink it.

It's a world of illusion, don't expect it to conform to the reality you knew before.

Real friends take time, and even then you usually never know. It's important to remember a lot of people are just mucking around killing time and have no sense of commitment to anything inworld.

A lot of people like talking to strangers while doing things, even shopping IRL. That doesn't mean they really want to be your friend.

Remember all of this is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong, and need to figure out how to make it fun again. But whatever you do, don't take it all seriously.

These men speak the truth.

[ThundrCoder]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:58 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

There's the in-world "Thundr" app, I don't know if it is used to make friends or just for dating.

Although Thundr is marketed as a dating app, some users put in their About section that they're just looking for friends, next to their in-world name so people can reach to them easily, and they end up meeting new people like that according to feedback we get all the time. Also, if you're just looking for friends, I don't think you'd really miss any of the paid features so you got nothing to lose ☺️  

[Devilgrey]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:12 AM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

"Level 1 Acquaintance" already kind of exists, when you give someone new your own Calling Card. I prefer to do this instead of accepting "Friendship", as a list of "Friends" who you once spoke to for a couple of seconds or minutes is unappealing and embarrassing when the so-called "Friend" never sees or contacts you again.

kinda off topic but i never thought of using calling cards like this. I've mostly used my calling card within notecards for products i sell, just thought it was easier to have that there than customers having to type my name if they needed to contact me.

[Clem Marques]

On the topic of calling cards

My opinion on this might be unpopular, but I'd rather add people as friends than to hand out calling cards. I understand why some might use them, but the truth is, they just end up lost and forgotten in one's inventory more often than not. Seems easier to just have the person in your friends list and remove them later if needed. Why not? I've only come across someone using calling cards as a friendship substitute once, in all the years I've spent in SL. It felt strange/mildly off-putting and I didn't contact the person again. Would've likely turned out different if they were in my friends list. 

I understand wanting to have a small friends list to avoid constant "so-and-so is online" notifications, or IM spam. But calling cards might not be perceived that well by every single person who receives them. Just saying. Doing nothing at all seems like a better alternative.

However, when it comes to business and selling products, as described by @Devilgrey, I recommend using calling cards. Makes the customer's life easier in case they need to contact you. That's the only way that I use them.

Edited February 16 by Clem Marques

[Wesley Spengler]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:17 AM, PheebyKatz said:

Remember all of this is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong, and need to figure out how to make it fun again.

When I first read that line, I thought the part about "you're doing it wrong" was a bit harsh. But honestly, I think there's way more truth there than I realized.

I'd only add that "figuring it out" can also involve leaving it behind. I wound-down my involvement in SL after eight amazing years in 2014; it just wasn't fun anymore. I think I logged-in maybe three or four times in a decade. Then, an old SL friend sends a RL text message in December, and I was sucked back in. I sort of wonder why I left, but the nature of the fun has shifted too.

I'm just thankful that lots of oldbies on my friend's list are still around; meeting new peeps (back to the OT) can still be challenging — just like RL. 

[PheebyKatz]

When a person isn't enjoying where they're at, all of their friendships suffer. It's also incredibly difficult to make sincere and willing friends with people when they know you're fundamentally unhappy. It sucks, but I've learned it through my own experience that nobody likes a sad person. Sure, they might be willing to play "Ain't It Awful" together, but no real friendship can form if there's no real enthusiasm for it, and the focus is on things being awful.

Something I notice a lot is people seeming bewildered that they have difficulty meeting pleasant people and making friends, when I can see that their level of expectation placed on others far exceeds their level of expectation placed on themselves; they want others to be nice, polite, respectful, give them freedom and rights (both at once is nearly impossible), all while expecting that others should simply accept them as they are, warts and all, and listen to them kvetch about how everything sucks.

I really think that going forth with no expectations one way or another is best. Every real friendship I've ever had has come about on its own, while I and others were minding our own business, and every contrived friendship I've ever engaged in has failed.

Instead of searching, looking outward, or projecting some need for people to be our friends, if we just occupy ourselves as enjoyably as we can with the people and places we find ourselves around, the rest takes care of itself. It's like how desperation for money keeps money away, or being desperate for a girlfriend is like waving a huge red flag that chases people off. Want is lack. Lack implies unhappy. Unhappy implies undesirable as company.

Find fun stuff to do, and don't worry about making friends. They'll happen on their own, if you're open to it. Find where you like to go, and find what you like to do, and go there and do that. Other people who like going there and doing that will find you there and do those things with you. Having place and things in common, friendships are easier to cultivate, growing naturally where they can flourish best.

Just my 2 and a half cents while the coffeemaker does its thing.

[Clem Marques]

19 hours ago, PheebyKatz said:

When a person isn't enjoying where they're at, all of their friendships suffer. It's also incredibly difficult to make sincere and willing friends with people when they know you're fundamentally unhappy. It sucks, but I've learned it through my own experience that nobody likes a sad person. Sure, they might be willing to play "Ain't It Awful" together, but no real friendship can form if there's no real enthusiasm for it, and the focus is on things being awful.

Something I notice a lot is people seeming bewildered that they have difficulty meeting pleasant people and making friends, when I can see that their level of expectation placed on others far exceeds their level of expectation placed on themselves; they want others to be nice, polite, respectful, give them freedom and rights (both at once is nearly impossible), all while expecting that others should simply accept them as they are, warts and all, and listen to them kvetch about how everything sucks.

I really think that going forth with no expectations one way or another is best. Every real friendship I've ever had has come about on its own, while I and others were minding our own business, and every contrived friendship I've ever engaged in has failed.

Instead of searching, looking outward, or projecting some need for people to be our friends, if we just occupy ourselves as enjoyably as we can with the people and places we find ourselves around, the rest takes care of itself. It's like how desperation for money keeps money away, or being desperate for a girlfriend is like waving a huge red flag that chases people off. Want is lack. Lack implies unhappy. Unhappy implies undesirable as company.

Find fun stuff to do, and don't worry about making friends. They'll happen on their own, if you're open to it. Find where you like to go, and find what you like to do, and go there and do that. Other people who like going there and doing that will find you there and do those things with you. Having place and things in common, friendships are easier to cultivate, growing naturally where they can flourish best.

Just my 2 and a half cents while the coffeemaker does its thing.

People can be happier and find friends more easily if they grasp these concepts, in my opinion. I share your mindset on this topic, and it pays off. All of my closest, most fulfilling friendships and relationships in SL (and in RL too) have been with people I randomly stumbled upon while hanging out at a place I like, or through a hobby I enjoy. Friendships can't be forced, they just happen, and then they are cultivated by both people, together. A mutual effort to make that bond deepen and last. Walking around with an open mind and without that desperate sense of "lacking" is helpful, and definitely makes one more approachable and likeable to others.

You shared some very valuable, accurate advice there. Well said.

Edited February 17 by Clem Marques

[lovestofu]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:41 AM, Calista Evergreen said:

If you are new to second life...forget about making friends.   unless you know second life people it is hard to make friends.   its a flaw second life creators need to work on.   make it easier to make friends when you are a newbie.

Groups are insular in SL because the meta has changed from real world. Alts can be scary and there's zero privacy in SL, so people are very guarded with their friendships and words. If you come on too strong with wanting to be a friend collector, you will give people the ick and have a bad time.

You do have a point though, it would be fun to have a randomized matched activity that will group you up with someone in SL and bring people closer. But then the Lindens would have to build it, support it, and also provide the content for these activities.