Missed It By 15mm

[Love Zhaoying]

After some thought, it "kind of makes sense" for clubs to have a "minimum height" if they want SOME way to detect and enforce a "no child avatars" rule.

(..Putting aside that it would catch all kinds of avatars that aren't trying to be "children"..)

And it "kind of makes sense" that they would enforce that "minimum height" rule with a "no exceptions" policy even within some "tolerance" of +/- 10mm.  I say this because, if you make an "exception" for someone with "just 10mm" difference, then why not 15mm? Or 25mm?

All that being said, it's quite silly.

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Yes but I like my bangs just as they are.

I had one friend years ago, in 2017, they considered themselves “top shelf” best of the best money could buy. Personally I thought their avatar was kinda crappy looking, but, personal preferences right?

They also fancied themselves a top notch photographer, and they were always bugging me to get a mesh head and mesh hair, otherwise they couldn’t lower their standards to take my picture “as is”.

We eventually parted ways when I told them in no uncertain terms that watching a virtual total eclipse would in no way shape or form be comparable to watching the real thing in real life.

 

Hey, you have every right to your full-bright hair and your system head.  No one has said you don't have that right.  I certainly don't care.  However, I'm not surprised at all that some places will not allow it or system avatars.  Is it being elitist?  It certainly is and venue owners are allowed to be.  

I actually can understand, somewhat, not wanting to change your head.  A few people in the forums are still using one as they can't get the look they'd like from mesh heads.  What I don't get is clinging to old items that would not be changing your basic avatar in any way such as hair.  I don't know too many women who have only one or wear one hair for years let alone full-bright hair.   Men, of course, often find one hair they like and never change but then they don't have a whole lot of options for styles if they keep it shorter.  Women have a plethora of choices.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Hey, you have every right to your full-bright hair and your system head. 

Everyone loves "She-Bangs"! (Maybe not the William Hung version.)

 

[MissSweetViolet]

If my height becomes an issue, I leave, plain and simple. I'm willing to change some things, like if I'm in my child or dinkie kitty avi, I'm more then happy to change to an adult avatar, I will change clothing if needed (though I've never run into an issue with my clothing), but if my height/face/hair/body is a problem, I can find better places to hang out. 

This actually did happen to me once with a height detector, I was doing the Lindo flower growing game, and was booted by an auto booter for being 5'2" (one inch shorter then my actual real life height), and contacted someone on the sim. I was told the sim owner is hyper paranoid about child avatars but they would talk to them about lowering it, don't know if they did, I didn't go back. Most of my avatars now are usually between 5'5" and 6'0" on my adult avatar (depending on what look I'm wearing) now, but that's probably still short by some SL standards.

Edited January 24 by MissSweetViolet
Punctuation correction.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

53 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Hey, you have every right to your full-bright hair and your system head.  No one has said you don't have that right.  I certainly don't care.  However, I'm not surprised at all that some places will not allow it or system avatars.  Is it being elitist?  It certainly is and venue owners are allowed to be.  

I actually can understand, somewhat, not wanting to change your head.  A few people in the forums are still using one as they can't get the look they'd like from mesh heads.  What I don't get is clinging to old items that would not be changing your basic avatar in any way such as hair.  I don't know too many women who have only one or wear one hair for years let alone full-bright hair.   Men, of course, often find one hair they like and never change but then they don't have a whole lot of options for styles if they keep it shorter.  Women have a plethora of choices.

 

I wear my hair in several different styles: braids, pony tail, up in a bun, just to name a few. 

But its always “my hair”, just worn differently.

If I cut it short, I’d wait weeks for it to grow out before wearing it long again.

I know it would actually take years to regrow in RL, but time moves faster in SL.

And since I’m platinum blonde, I can put a colored rinse on it if i want a different look, Mardi grad is coming up, so I might dye my hair, tail and ears 😁

[BilliJo Aldrin]

10 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

If my height becomes an issue, I leave, plain and simple. I'm willing to change some things, like if I'm in my child or dinkie kitty avi, I'm more then happy to change to an adult avatar, I will change clothing if needed (though I've never run into an issue with my clothing), but if my height/face/hair/body is a problem, I can find better places to hang out. 

This actually did happen to me once with a height detector, I was doing the Lindo flower growing game, and was booted by an auto booter for being 5'2" (one inch shorter then my actual real life height), and contacted someone on the sim. I was told the sim owner is hyper paranoid about child avatars but they would talk to them about lowering it, don't know if they did, I didn't go back. Most of my avatars now are usually between 5"5" and 6"0' on my adult avatar (depending on what look I'm wearing) now, but that's probably still short by some SL standards.

I’m about 5 ft 6 and i cringe sometimes when I’m with some 9 ft tall guy.

If I wasnt so buxom, I’m sure some people would accuse me of *****. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I’m about 5 ft 6 and i cringe sometimes when I’m with some 9 ft tall guy.

If I wasnt so buxom, I’m sure some people would accuse me of *****. 

lol cant say that word in the forums, but im sure you can guess 😂

[MissSweetViolet]

10 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I’m about 5 ft 6 and i cringe sometimes when I’m with some 9 ft tall guy.

If I wasnt so buxom, I’m sure some people would accuse me of *****. 

Fortunately I've not had to many issues with my height, just the one auto boot, and then there was was guy at a ballroom who oddly told me I was too tall (I was like 5'6"-5'8" ish at that time I think? But I know what you mean!

The thing that bugs me most is it's just some person's idea of what should be to tall/short, not based in any actual reasonable example of the range of height a person actually has. Of course being in SL where we can shape our avatars any way we wish, it's harder to police with a real life standard, but my first reaction on seeing a shorter avatar wouldn't be, oh child avi look out! Maybe it's cause I swap to a child avatar myself, but I would be watching for other things, like clothing style, behavior, etc.

I've always believed and still do that height and face are very inaccurate ways to tell someone's age both in real life and in SL, there's too much overlap, especially in the teen age range. In real life I reached my adult height at age 13 then stopped growing. If someone used my height to try and guess my age, I'd be in trouble, even my face wasn't a clear tell for people apparently, because at age 19, I was often told by people they thought I was younger (15-16 was the response I got most), even now at 37 people often think I'm younger then my age, though I mind it less now then I did back then, lol.

If it's that hard to tell in real life, I wouldn't even approach trying to use a face style or height in SL to check age, it's just impossible and there are usually far better tells then that. 

[Persephone Emerald]

27 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I’m about 5 ft 6 and i cringe sometimes when I’m with some 9 ft tall guy.

SL height discrimination is a bit silly as a way to keep out child avatars. I guess it makes sense if a sim wants to keep out Tinies and Dinkies and small animal avatars, but RL people are often shorter than 5 feet tall.  If a club wants more realism, how about setting a height restriction between 1m and 2.5 meters? In RL, people are seldom over 7 feet tall.

[Rowan Amore]

15 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

because at age 19, I was often told by people they thought I was younger (15-16 was the response I got most)

And here's where the issue lies.  It's not against the laws or rules in RL to be in adult establishment if you are 18+ but look younger.  Of course, you'll get carded.  No big deal.  You can even date someone 40+ as a young looking 19 years old in RL.  In SL, the only thing anyone can go by is how you appear.  If your avatar looks 15-16 even though your profile says you're over 18, that's against the ToS.  It's a subjective decision that every venue owner makes.  If THEY think your avatar looks too young or too short or whatever, that's fine.  Just find somewhere else to go.

BTW, I'm 6'  even in SL.  3 inches taller than RL and I'm still often one of the shorter people around and have not once been asked to leave because of my height.  It's really not as prevalent as it used to be aside from a few noob sex places.

[MissSweetViolet]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And here's where the issue lies.  It's not against the laws or rules in RL to be in adult establishment if you are 18+ but look younger.  Of course, you'll get carded.  No big deal.  You can even date someone 40+ as a young looking 19 years old in RL.  In SL, the only thing anyone can go by is how you appear.  If your avatar looks 15-16 even though your profile says you're over 18, that's against the ToS.  It's a subjective decision that every venue owner makes.  If THEY think your avatar looks too young or too short or whatever, that's fine.  Just find somewhere else to go.

BTW, I'm 6'  even in SL.  3 inches taller than RL and I'm still often one of the shorter people around and have not once been asked to leave because of my height.  It's really not as prevalent as it used to be aside from a few noob sex places.

Agreed, it's way harder to police in SL, because you can't just simply card someone, most you could do is ask, but you'd have to put faith they weren't lying, and even in real life teens lie about their age. 

That being said though, it should only really be a issue where adult activities are concerned. Child avis are allowed on adult parcels, as long as they aren't partaking/in view of adult activities. If such things go on at a parcel I totally understand wanting a boot in place if it can't be monitored 24/7 by someone (but then the child avi shouldn't even be there in the first place, which would make me suspect). I don't understand boots on places where no such things take place though. I know they can make their own rules, but it seems like it's more likely to drive people away then bring them in if there's nothing on the parcel to justify such a system.

Edited January 24 by MissSweetViolet
Spelling corrections.

[Rowan Amore]

26 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

Agreed, it's way harder to police in SL, because you can't just simply card someone, most you could do is ask, but you'd have to put faith they weren't lying, and even in real life teens lie about their age. 

I wasn't talking RL age in SL.  I'm talking about people making avatars the push the limit of what looks old enough.  Round faces and eyes, chubby cheeks, snot bubbles, etc.  Plopping that head on a curvy body?  My step-daughter was a D cup at 14 and her face looked like she was 14.  

I always find it interesting that some of the same people who say SL is all about fantasy and doing/being what you can't be in RL, often are the ones claiming they are their RL height to 'keep it real'. Makes no sense to me.  If you're standing next to the bar in an adult venue where there is adult activity and your chin barely reaches the bar top, you're too short IMO.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

41 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

I know they can make their own rules, but it seems like it's more likely to drive people away then bring them in if there's nothing on the parcel to justify such a system

Driving away people "that they probably don't want there".

When I see an avatar that's 4'8" tall, with narrow hips, a flat chest, big child like eyes in a child-like face, on an AA-Rated region, with a place pick that when translated into REAL English states "I self certify my avatar is 3 times older than it looks, no really..." my immediate reaction is "Kill it with fire".

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

My question for the forum is: How far will YOU go to satisfy the arbitrary requirements of a parcel owner to satisfy their set standards, be it height, number of scripts, avatar complexity, clothing style, species, gender, mesh vs non mesh, etc etc etc.

If they don't want my business, that's fine with me. It's their financial loss, not mine. 

The number of attached, running scripts and avatar complexity (however inaccurate it may be) is understandable and are nothing I would have an issue complying with as long as the restrictions are reasonable.

In RP sims it can be necessary to specify the types of characters/avatars that participate due to the nature/theme of the RP.  Medieval fantasy/mythical creatures wouldn't exist in say a space RP that does not involve aliens. Showing up in an "inappropriate costume" is disruptive to the players. It doesn't belong.

ETA: You already know my take on the avatar height bs. Short people do exist in both RL and SL. People are so paranoid some jerk will report the venue over a short avatar simply because children are short as well... get over yourselves. If some jerk wants to do something nefarious, there isn't anything you can do to stop them. What you can do is be certain you follow the TOS/Community Guidelines and keep clear, concise records of any issues that may occur for LL's perusal.

 

Edited January 24 by Silent Mistwalker

[MissSweetViolet]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I wasn't talking RL age in SL.  I'm talking about people making avatars the push the limit of what looks old enough.  Round faces and eyes, chubby cheeks, snot bubbles, etc.  Plopping that head on a curvy body?  My step-daughter was a D cup at 14 and her face looked like she was 14.  

I always find it interesting that some of the same people who say SL is all about fantasy and doing/being what you can't be in RL, often are the ones claiming they are their RL height to 'keep it real'. Makes no sense to me.  If you're standing next to the bar in an adult venue where there is adult activity and your chin barely reaches the bar top, you're too short IMO.

I agree, but many people who are trying to keep out child avatars are judging by real standards too, so it's relevant for that. Someone can certainly get around the rules in SL by towing the line in the same way that a real teen could be doing by lying.

As for being to short in the second section, that's mostly right, my child avi is under 2 feet and most of the other child avi I meet using a similar age range I do (age 4) are as well, there would be no mistaking my avi for an adult (but I also wouldn't be going into such a space using that avi in the first place). But it gets trickier with teen ages where height and face can look ether way, and it can go even more blurred if you have a stylized avi, say anime ish, which may be fully adult but look younger, or a more realistic looking teen who may appear older then actually intended to be. There are also people who play petite avatars which are fully adult, just tiny. The dinkie cats, you wouldn't mistake those for child avi's (well I heard one person got booted for it, but not the norm), but an auto booter won't be discerning. In a sim managed solo, or at times when the own can't watch or it's to big to manage, I understand, but I'm just saying, you won't likely catch everything you want to keep out, you also will boot a lot of people who would have been perfectly fine. It's a tricky area with no current perfect solution sadly.

[Solar Legion]

Point blank (and being polite): If you're judging age using height, you need to take a step back and seriously evaluate yourself.

Scale here n SL is not yet standardized (nor is it likely to ever truly be in many places) - someone who is nearly six feet tall will look small when compared to someone who is eight or nine feet tall or when compared to an environment built around those heights.

I've made my feelings on the way such things are judged where the differing criteria are concerned, quite clear in the past and I am not getting into them further here.

 

[Rolig Loon]

I can't remember visiting a place that had rules like that, but that's probably because my av is pretty "normal" and I don't pay a lot of attention.  If I ran into someplace that didn't seem to want people like me, I guess I'd just leave.  Their loss.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, MissSweetViolet said:

at age 19, I was often told by people they thought I was younger (15-16 was the response I got most), even now at 37 people often think I'm younger then my age, though I mind it less now then I did back then, lol.

When I was a teen everyone always thought I was at least 18. Then when I did turn 18 and went to the RL dance club I had been going to for a couple of years, they carded me (on my 18th birthday!) and ever since people think I'm 10 - 20 years younger than I actually am.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

ETA: The bouncer that carded me knew me and knew I had been getting in underaged. I sometimes wonder if he carded me because it was my 18th birthday and that was his way of saying welcome to adulthood. I'd never been carded before that day.

Edited January 24 by Silent Mistwalker

[Extrude Ragu]

me complying with the minimum height requirement to enter the club

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I got banned from a BDSM sim one time because I smacked some subby’s butt without asking the owners permission first.

That may or may not have been addressed in the rules notecard, but does anyone actually read those things right to the end?

Hey if its public access, its fair game right? 😁

No. That's considered very bad form in RL BDSM, which apparently most SL players know nothing about. When a submissive is collared, that means they are under the control and protection of their Master/Mistress. To ignore that relationship disrespects both the submissive and their Master/Mistress. 

SL BDSM is more often BDSM roleplay, in my opinion. In SL, having an open collar, spanker, or strippable clothing that anyone can interact with means that person wants anyone to be able to use it. This is probably where the confusion happened. The sim/club owners should have stated the rules that would have been understood in RL, because most SL BDSM players are going by SL expectations instead RL ones.

[Rowan Amore]

42 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Point blank (and being polite): If you're judging age using height, you need to take a step back and seriously evaluate yourself.

Scale here n SL is not yet standardized (nor is it likely to ever truly be in many places) - someone who is nearly six feet tall will look small when compared to someone who is eight or nine feet tall or when compared to an environment built around those heights.

I've made my feelings on the way such things are judged where the differing criteria are concerned, quite clear in the past and I am not getting into them further here.

 

I definitely do not judge by height alone.  That's just old school and I don't know why people still think that's relevant.   I HAVE seen really short avatars as I described before, whose chin is as high as the bar top BUT there was nothing else whatsoever about their avatar that said underage.  I could probably make my avatar the same relative height as the OP and not have an issue in 99.9% of the adult venues I frequent because I look like a grown woman.  I've adjusted my height ONCE and not really very much but that was years ago.  

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

No. That's considered very bad form in RL BDSM, which apparently most SL players know nothing about. When a submissive is collared, that means they are under the control and protection of their Master/Mistress. To ignore that relationship disrespects both the submissive and their Master/Mistress. 

SL BDSM is more often BDSM roleplay, in my opinion. In SL, having an open collar, spanker, or strippable clothing that anyone can interact with means that person wants anyone to be able to use it. This is probably where the confusion happened. The sim/club owners should have stated the rules that would have been understood in RL, because most SL BDSM players are going by SL expectations instead RL ones.

well you see, most spankers dont give a warning. If the owner was so uptight, they could have have their sub set it to private if that was an option, or just take it off.

Hey besides. I wasnt trying to spank your sub, I was trying to get a copy of the club rules from the notecard giver beside them. Obviously the spank area stretched out way too far from the actual butt.

😂

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

very bad form in RL BDSM, which apparently most SL players know nothing about.

Honestly, I very frequently have the impression that a great many SL BDSMers know nothing about it either.

14 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

SL BDSM is more often BDSM roleplay, in my opinion. In SL, having an open collar, spanker, or strippable clothing that anyone can interact with means that person wants anyone to be able to use it.

Yeah, this I think. There are subs who are actually encouraged/required by their Dom/mes to wander the grid looking for people who will "interact" with them in various possible ways. The fact that we have digital affordances, such as RLV and scripted collars, adds a whole new layer to how we communicate desire and intention in SL that is not really accounted for in RL terms.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

There parcel, their rules.

says it all, do it or leave.
 

With the greatest respect, Alwin, no one here I've seen has suggested otherwise.

But having the right to impose absurd or stupid rules doesn't, and shouldn't, exempt you from criticism for their absurdity or stupidity.

Edited January 24 by Scylla Rhiadra
New Keyboard

[Arielle Popstar]

29 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

No. That's considered very bad form in RL BDSM, which apparently most SL players know nothing about. When a submissive is collared, that means they are under the control and protection of their Master/Mistress. To ignore that relationship disrespects both the submissive and their Master/Mistress. 

SL BDSM is more often BDSM roleplay, in my opinion. In SL, having an open collar, spanker, or strippable clothing that anyone can interact with means that person wants anyone to be able to use it. This is probably where the confusion happened. The sim/club owners should have stated the rules that would have been understood in RL, because most SL BDSM players are going by SL expectations instead RL ones.

There is usually a public and private option to the spankers and other RLV enabled toys and generally at least in the clubs I have frequented, one set to public means exactly that is set that way purposely either by a free sub or required by their Dom/me. To then complain that a member of the virtual public actually used the option, seems silly.