linden labs The Scam

[Nikki2298]

When you pay for virtual land with or without a home, you expect to get what you paid for. Linden Labs, IMO, is scamming its members since there are still no homes with land available to members who purchased a Premium Plus membership. They have all the models for us to look at, so what's the problem? Are we supposed to believe there is still no land allotted and developed for them to drop the homes on? Premium Plus was first offered on June 23rd, 2022, so I find it difficult to believe they don't have parcels available now. 

The L$650 "weekly stipend" goes to waste because you have to pay "tiers" with it, and the cheapest 2048㎡ Mainland parcel is two times that amount, so how is that a Plus seems more like a Minus to me? I don't need 140 groups, 160 stored IMs, concierge phone support, and the Linden Home concierge service is useless since there are no homes. So, I'll cancel my Premium Plus and its bogus 2048㎡ mythical homes, and go back to Premium.

[BJoyful]

50 minutes ago, Nikki2298 said:

When you pay for virtual land with or without a home, you expect to get what you paid for. Linden Labs, IMO, is scamming its members since there are still no homes with land available to members who purchased a Premium Plus membership. They have all the models for us to look at, so what's the problem? Are we supposed to believe there is still no land allotted and developed for them to drop the homes on? Premium Plus was first offered on June 23rd, 2022, so I find it difficult to believe they don't have parcels available now. 

The L$650 "weekly stipend" goes to waste because you have to pay "tiers" with it, and the cheapest 2048㎡ Mainland parcel is two times that amount, so how is that a Plus seems more like a Minus to me? I don't need 140 groups, 160 stored IMs, concierge phone support, and the Linden Home concierge service is useless since there are no homes. So, I'll cancel my Premium Plus and its bogus 2048㎡ mythical homes, and go back to Premium.

Paraphrasing Pauli... I my humble opinion most of the above is fundamentally "not even wrong" 

[Abnor Mole]

I understand the frustration that no Ranch homes are currently available. There are however homes in other themes available you can try in the meantime, and there is the option of mainland... but I think there may be some confusion in how mainland and tier works. You do have to buy mainland but that is a one time purchase price, not a recurring tier cost. Your tier included with your membership covers that, not your weekly stipend. And if you sell that mainland later, you should recoup that initial purchase price depending on how much you sell the land for.
 

 

[AzureWaves]

in b4 lock

Edited November 6, 2023 by AzureWaves

[Marisa Starbrook]

I expand and contract my premium memberships depending on what type of theme I’m interested in at the time. About a month ago  I decided I wanted to get a ranch before checking to see if any were available. Since there weren’t any available, I decided to avail myself of the perk of selecting an available houseboat in a primo location. The houseboat had been in Maintenance for 10 days! I will be downgrading that membership, because I still love the location. 

I keep checking the land page to see what is currently available. Much to my astonishment, there was a ranch available. I immediately got a Premium Plus membership and assumed that someone else would have snagged the house before I could finish my transaction. 

Moral to the story is that you don’t have to constantly be watching the land page like the situation of 4 years ago, where there were no houseboats available for months after the initial release. I still remember landing my first houseboat during a region release. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nika Talaj]

Nikki, I feel for you.  If someone was just looking at LL's official announcements, I can see how they might feel scammed.  I never considered premium plus, partly because discussions here in the forums made it clear that PP homes would be a long time coming, and like you the other benefits don't mean that much to me.

Everyone's circumstances are different.  In reality, my budget precluded buying any PP memberships this year (circumstances left me with several prepaid annual premium memberships last year, so I've been downsizing for quite some time).  I suspect that the reason more ranches have not been released is because a new 2048 theme will be revealed in a few weeks at the Christmas Expo, and if people like it, then quite a few current rancheros will change to the new theme.  BUT that is just my suspicion ... and remember. just because a theme is revealed, doesn't mean it will be released immediately!

I hope you're using the new land page to check how many homes in a given theme are available.  If I were lurking for a ranch home, I would just stay on page 5, and refresh until I saw that the ranch home disappeared (which would mean one is available).  They do come available now and then.  The count of how many parcels in a given them are available is given on the page for that theme.

At one point I wanted to see if that number could be trusted, so I flew over a LOT of ranch regions when supposedly none were available.  Sure enough, every parcel I saw was occupied.

Do whatever suits your personal needs best.  Like Marisa, I won't be upgrading until 2048 homes in a theme I really like come available.

p.s. A ranch home is available RIGHT NOW, as it happens.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Nika Talaj

[Nikki2298]

10 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

I understand the frustration that no Ranch homes are currently available. There are however homes in other themes available you can try in the meantime, and there is the option of mainland... but I think there may be some confusion in how mainland and tier works. You do have to buy mainland but that is a one time purchase price, not a recurring tier cost. Your tier included with your membership covers that, not your weekly stipend. And if you sell that mainland later, you should recoup that initial purchase price depending on how much you sell the land for.
 

I had a 1040㎡ LL home, but I used the land to build a skybox since I didn't care about the cramped homes offered by LL. I mainly went with the upgrade to PP so I could build a larger skybox that had more LI available. I didn't want to give LL more money by purchasing Mainland property since I feel they are scamming residents with an upgrade that wasn't ready for its rollout.  

Thank you for your explanation.

 

 

[Nikki2298]

9 hours ago, Marisa Starbrook said:

I expand and contract my premium memberships depending on what type of theme I’m interested in at the time. About a month ago  I decided I wanted to get a ranch before checking to see if any were available. Since there weren’t any available, I decided to avail myself of the perk of selecting an available houseboat in a primo location. The houseboat had been in Maintenance for 10 days! I will be downgrading that membership, because I still love the location. 

I keep checking the land page to see what is currently available. Much to my astonishment, there was a ranch available. I immediately got a Premium Plus membership and assumed that someone else would have snagged the house before I could finish my transaction. 

Moral to the story is that you don’t have to constantly be watching the land page like the situation of 4 years ago, where there were no houseboats available for months after the initial release. I still remember landing my first houseboat during a region release. 

 

That's an interesting scenario, but all I was interested in was a 2048㎡ home/land for more LI where I could build a bigger skybox. I don't have the time to play games with LL since I feel the rollout was premature and a scam. 

Thank you for your thoughts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marigold Devin]

12 hours ago, Nikki2298 said:

When you pay for virtual land with or without a home, you expect to get what you paid for. Linden Labs, IMO, is scamming its members since there are still no homes with land available to members who purchased a Premium Plus membership. They have all the models for us to look at, so what's the problem? Are we supposed to believe there is still no land allotted and developed for them to drop the homes on? Premium Plus was first offered on June 23rd, 2022, so I find it difficult to believe they don't have parcels available now. 

The L$650 "weekly stipend" goes to waste because you have to pay "tiers" with it, and the cheapest 2048㎡ Mainland parcel is two times that amount, so how is that a Plus seems more like a Minus to me? I don't need 140 groups, 160 stored IMs, concierge phone support, and the Linden Home concierge service is useless since there are no homes. So, I'll cancel my Premium Plus and its bogus 2048㎡ mythical homes, and go back to Premium.

There really is no scam. Linden Homes are always subject to availability. No one forces any of us to sign up to any kind of premium membership either. As has been explained by Abnor Mole above (the Moles and Lindens are in charge here, by the way), it is recommended you (we all) read up about land ownership.

It would be a shame for you to spoil your own Second Life experiences by having the knee jerk reaction of downgrading your membership, just because, at this current time, there are no Ranch Homes available. 

The Lindens and Moles are constantly releasing new regions with Linden Homes, and also other residents often will release a home when they decide to go for a different theme, so just keep your eyes open, and keep checking back with the website. 

In the meantime, please read the link Abnor Mole has provided for you above.

 

[Nikki2298]

Nika, thank you for your thoughts, but I decided to stay with my Premium package because I feel LL is scamming their residents by not having the homes ready at their rollout. 

[Nikki2298]

13 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

There really is no scam. Linden Homes are always subject to availability. No one forces any of us to sign up to any kind of premium membership either. As has been explained by Abnor Mole above (the Moles and Lindens are in charge here, by the way), it is recommended you (we all) read up about land ownership.

It would be a shame for you to spoil your own Second Life experiences by having the knee jerk reaction of downgrading your membership, just because, at this current time, there are no Ranch Homes available. 

The Lindens and Moles are constantly releasing new regions with Linden Homes, and also other residents often will release a home when they decide to go for a different theme, so just keep your eyes open, and keep checking back with the website. 

In the meantime, please read the link Abnor Mole has provided for you above.

 

I have to respectfully disagree. When you roll out a new plan it should be 100% ready and this wasn't. LL collected and is collecting money that they knew wasn't going to give people the new homes it offered. That's a scam. 

I'm not spoiling my SL experiences by going back to the Premium plan I had and dropping the PP plan I upgraded to. To me, it's the prudent thing to do. I also don't have the time to sit idly by playing Tiddlywinks while I wait for a 2048㎡ land parcel to open up. 

Thank you for your input.

[Marigold Devin]

20 minutes ago, Nikki2298 said:

 

I have to respectfully disagree. When you roll out a new plan it should be 100% ready and this wasn't. LL collected and is collecting money that they knew wasn't going to give people the new homes it offered. That's a scam. 

I'm not spoiling my SL experiences by going back to the Premium plan I had and dropping the PP plan I upgraded to. To me, it's the prudent thing to do. I also don't have the time to sit idly by playing Tiddlywinks while I wait for a 2048㎡ land parcel to open up. 

Thank you for your input.

So, if it's a scam, maybe you need to be seeking legal advice, suing Linden Lab?

But we all know it's NOT a scam, even you. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Marigold Devin

[Fionalein]

8 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

But we all know it's NOT a scam, even you. 

Do we? I'm no legal expert, are you?

A customer was promised a key product feature which cannot be delivered. Regardless wether this legal, it is frustrating to the customer. LL is providing a luxury service, frustrated customers is not what you want in that kind of business.

[Marigold Devin]

18 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Do we? I'm no legal expert, are you?

A customer was promised a key product feature which cannot be delivered. Regardless wether this legal, it is frustrating to the customer. LL is providing a luxury service, frustrated customers is not what you want in that kind of business.

No, I'm not actually.

I'm just a basement-dwelling pleb, obviously.

I'm one of those customers who read about the new 2048 Premium Plus homes and looked into the pros and cons of same, including the likelihood of there being limited availability in the early stages of release.

I chose not to take the gamble. 

What else do you want me to say?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Marigold Devin

[Sparkly Rainbow]

I'm confused - here is the description of the Premium Plus membership from the Second Life website.  I do not see anything listed that is not available to anyone.

Premium Plus gets you:
L$650

Weekly stipend to use any way you like (approx. $11 cash value every month)

Up to 2,048 m²

of mainland for zero monthly land fees (approx. $13 cash value every month)

L$3,000

Signup bonus (approx. $12 cash value)

140 groups

Join up to 140 groups

Free

uploads of sounds, textures and animations

Create groups for L$10
Host up to 2 Land Experiences
Up to 160 stored instant messages
Create recurring Events for free
Concierge phone support
Choose your Linden Home concierge service

 

Then it states also that 

All Premium members also enjoy
A free Linden Home of your choice

Nowhere in that description does it promise one of the new 2048 Linden homes.  So, in reality, there is no Scam happening.  It is carefully worded and pretty clear.

 

[Phil Deakins]

In view of Sparkly's post, I've deleted what I originally wrote in this post.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Marigold Devin]

5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

In view of Sparkly's post, I've deleted what I originally wrote in this post.

 

Damn, I blinked and missed something AGAIN lol.

[Fionalein]

9 minutes ago, Sparkly Rainbow said:

All Premium members also enjoy

A free Linden Home of your choice

Totally no promise to get a ranch if one wanted, ... or could it be read as such?

[Nikki2298]

15 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

So, if it's a scam, maybe you need to be seeking legal advice, suing Linden Lab?

But we all know it's NOT a scam, even you. 

 

I find it childish and petty that you would mention a lawsuit because you disagree with what I said. I'm a project manager for a large construction firm, so I'm well-versed in fraud law. Accordingly, since LL willingly reimbursed me for their deceptive advertising practice, there is no case for fraud. 

We all know it was deceptive advertising, even you. To scam usually implies planning and coordination in the deception, usually for monetary gain. To scam will always mean to deceive, but to deceive will not always mean to scam. So, this concludes our duologue since I have better things to do with my time. 

[Marigold Devin]

24 minutes ago, Nikki2298 said:

 

I find it childish and petty that you would mention a lawsuit because you disagree with what I said. I'm a project manager for a large construction firm, so I'm well-versed in fraud law. Accordingly, since LL willingly reimbursed me for their deceptive advertising practice, there is no case for fraud. 

We all know it was deceptive advertising, even you. To scam usually implies planning and coordination in the deception, usually for monetary gain. To scam will always mean to deceive, but to deceive will not always mean to scam. So, this concludes our duologue since I have better things to do with my time. 

ok

I am only responsible for what I say, not for how you choose to take it.

You were the one that brought up the word "scam". Does that not mean therefore there would be a need for a lawsuit? If Linden Lab or anyone else were attempting to mislead and defraud and scam people?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Marigold Devin
I smell troll

[Phil Deakins]

57 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Totally no promise to get a ranch if one wanted, ... or could it be read as such?

Nope

Assuming that Sparkly's post is correct, the buyer is offered a choice of Linden Home. There is no suggestion that every design will be available to choose from. I.e. Here's what's available. Choose one.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Nikki2298]

55 minutes ago, Sparkly Rainbow said:

Then it states also that 

All Premium members also enjoy
A free Linden Home of your choice

Nowhere in that description does it promise one of the new 2048 Linden homes.  So, in reality, there is no Scam happening.  It is carefully worded and pretty clear.

 

 

All Premium members also enjoy a free Linden Home of their choice, accordingly if none are unavailable due to the lack of Linden Homes, we clearly have no home to enjoy. That sounds like deceptive advertising to me in the realm of a scam. 

[Nikki2298]

13 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope

Assuming that Sparkly's post is correct, the buyer is offered a choice of Linden Home. There is no suggestion that every design will be available to choose from. I.e. Here's what's available. Choose one.

 

It's not correct IMO, read my reply to him. 

[Sparkly Rainbow]

1 minute ago, Nikki2298 said:

It's not correct IMO, read my reply to him. 

Define "Correct" 

The information in my post is directly from the SL website.  You can interpret it any way you want.  But the information is right on the website very clearly stated.

[PrudenceAnton]

1 hour ago, Sparkly Rainbow said:

I'm confused - here is the description of the Premium Plus membership from the Second Life website.  I do not see anything listed that is not available to anyone.

Premium Plus gets you:
L$650

Weekly stipend to use any way you like (approx. $11 cash value every month)

Up to 2,048 m²

of mainland for zero monthly land fees (approx. $13 cash value every month)

L$3,000

Signup bonus (approx. $12 cash value)

140 groups

Join up to 140 groups

Free

uploads of sounds, textures and animations

Create groups for L$10
Host up to 2 Land Experiences
Up to 160 stored instant messages
Create recurring Events for free
Concierge phone support
Choose your Linden Home concierge service

 

Then it states also that 

All Premium members also enjoy
A free Linden Home of your choice

Nowhere in that description does it promise one of the new 2048 Linden homes.  So, in reality, there is no Scam happening.  It is carefully worded and pretty clear.

 

"Of your choice" is an idiom that means something that you have personally chosen from a selection of options. There are always Bellisseria Linden Homes available to Premium and Premium Plus members. But not always the theme you may desire for yourself.

Is a Ranch home available from the current listing at the time you chose to select one of the options?

Sometimes a Ranch home (2048 Linden home parcel) is available and part of the offered Bellisseria Linden Home options from the current listing. Sometimes it is not. As a PP member, you are still qualified to select a free Linden Home of your choice or wait.

It pays to read up, check in Bellisseria groups, and ask other residents what is currently available on the Bellisseria Home page listing. This prevents you from making the hasty decision to sign up without being informed of current availability if the only reason you are upgrading to PP is to have a 2048 Bellisseria Linden home parcel (Ranch home).

Due to the Premium Plus membership not having 2048 Bellisseria Linden homes available at the time it was released, many residents, (myself included) decided to wait it out until the time plenty of these homes were available. (It was noted by Linden Lab that those wanting the 2048 parcel homes, would have to wait when signing up for PP at that time before these homes would be ready and released.)

When the Bellisseria Linden Homes were first released in 2019, many signed up to become Premium members so they could own a new Linden Home. Many of us had to compete with the demand of more residents in que than Linden Homes availability and had to wait and wait. Sometimes a few months.  Residents learned the frustration of being able to grab an available home when it showed up on the page before someone else grabbed it.

Being informed of what you are signing up for, what you are expecting, and what is actually stated in writing and available is a smart consumer action plan and preparation, so you are not left disappointed and upset when expected gratification turns out to be, Linden Home "of your choice" but this model is currently unavailable. Please try again later.