I have a question. (rant)

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

58 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This looks like the perfect placement of a floating Demo sign to me. It's high enough to not obscure the clothing, but low enough so it can't be easily cropped out of a photo.  You might want to add your store brand to it, rather than it just saying "DEMO", but that would be a personal choice.

Side note: I remember some club having a theme of newbie and demo stuff once. If someone were to go to an event wearing demo items that are branded, that would be free advertising. It's rare that people go out wearing demos though, unless it's a demo mesh head or body and they want to try it with different skins and clothes.

Good idea about adding a brand, will sort that out

Thanks

[ValKalAstra]

*sighs* Alright. Not gonna lie. This thread was hurtful. Some of the strawmen and weird attributions to what creators supposedly are and think were beyond ridiculous. Not sure where this hatred is coming from.

Still I am willing to learn and I am used to taking the verbal abuse so: Hi. I'll out myself here. I've got a timed demo for my product because I wasn't sure how else to demo it. There wasn't any malicious intent and never have I thought the customers were stupid. I was simply looking for a way to demo what is essentially a script.

At the time, I did market research and most scripted solutions tend to not offer a demo to begin with. This includes comparable products going up as far as 7.000L$ which have hundreds of reviews. I wanted to offer a demo and then looked into how to set it up. Since my product is a script, the usual methods of just adding a nagging floater or texture just don't apply. I'm faced with a simple problem:

• Don't limit it and there's zero reason to buy the actual product.
• Limit it too much and people can't actually demo it.

Especially when it comes to the main selling point the decision is quite binary. Either I show it or I don't. If I show it and don't limit it by time or amount of times used, that removes the need to ever buy the product. So in the end, I have made the decision to setup a timed demo. It's setup to offer 15 minutes (I think, need to double check at the PC tomorrow) of active time (so no ticking while detached) with an additional grace period of 3 more minutes, while telling the users "hey the demo is coming to an end".

I've also written a lengthy documentation, describing every function of the product in detail and linked it on the marketplace in a PDF file. At the time, I pondered a possible alternative: To have a max amount of "function" clicks. Say, you can click the HUD 300 times before it turns off but otherwise keep it on as long as you want. I have ultimately decided against doing that because certain HUD elements need repeated clicks and would tally up really quickly while the main functions would be one or two clicks. I could weigh clicks differently but that would quickly grow complicated to parse.

So, how do I stop being Satan?

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

@ValKalAstrait is really easy for people to attack the nameless and faceless evil creators.  You put your hand up and faced it head on.  I have to give you respect for that.  

I hope people recognize your ongoing efforts to change up demos and try new things.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

25 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

So, how do I stop being Satan?

Why stop now, just as it's getting to be fun?

Thanks for this. Yours is a somewhat special case, in some ways: the vast majority of timed demos are, of course, clothing. I don't think I've ever seen a demo for a scripted tool, period, so as far as I am concerned, the fact that you've gone to the effort to produce one earns you a place in the pantheon of heavenly SL angels to begin with.

Painting with too broad a brush is kinda what we do here sometimes. The criticisms being applied, whether justified or not, really don't apply to you in any case.

[KathrynLisbeth]

23 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

..... I was simply looking for a way to demo what is essentially a script.....

That is the 'GOOD' use case for a time limit.  

Testing What & How a thing works v/s  How will it look with dozens of other items.

Unlike some click counter that can result in the need to 'really start altering the mechanics'.  This use case allows to add the 'is a demo 'thing''  w/o messing about with other 'real workings'   

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

*sighs* Alright. Not gonna lie. This thread was hurtful. Some of the strawmen and weird attributions to what creators supposedly are and think were beyond ridiculous. Not sure where this hatred is coming from.

Still I am willing to learn and I am used to taking the verbal abuse so: Hi. I'll out myself here. I've got a timed demo for my product because I wasn't sure how else to demo it. There wasn't any malicious intent and never have I thought the customers were stupid. I was simply looking for a way to demo what is essentially a script.

At the time, I did market research and most scripted solutions tend to not offer a demo to begin with. This includes comparable products going up as far as 7.000L$ which have hundreds of reviews. I wanted to offer a demo and then looked into how to set it up. Since my product is a script, the usual methods of just adding a nagging floater or texture just don't apply. I'm faced with a simple problem:

• Don't limit it and there's zero reason to buy the actual product.
• Limit it too much and people can't actually demo it.

Especially when it comes to the main selling point the decision is quite binary. Either I show it or I don't. If I show it and don't limit it by time or amount of times used, that removes the need to ever buy the product. So in the end, I have made the decision to setup a timed demo. It's setup to offer 15 minutes (I think, need to double check at the PC tomorrow) of active time (so no ticking while detached) with an additional grace period of 3 more minutes, while telling the users "hey the demo is coming to an end".

I've also written a lengthy documentation, describing every function of the product in detail and linked it on the marketplace in a PDF file. At the time, I pondered a possible alternative: To have a max amount of "function" clicks. Say, you can click the HUD 300 times before it turns off but otherwise keep it on as long as you want. I have ultimately decided against doing that because certain HUD elements need repeated clicks and would tally up really quickly while the main functions would be one or two clicks. I could weigh clicks differently but that would quickly grow complicated to parse.

So, how do I stop being Satan?

The complaints in this thread don't really apply to you.

For example, the objects I sell aren't clothes, they're functional devices. For us, a timed demo makes more sense, since it's the functions that people are testing, not the appearance, and a "demo" texture/prim won't matter. Gotta have the timer so people don't just use the things indefinitely.

For clothes or "visual only" objects, it makes much more sense to add a demo part or texture and not use a timer.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

Since my product is a script, the usual methods of just adding a nagging floater or texture just don't apply.

And the concerns about a timed demo probably don't apply either. In fact, as a scripter, I'd think only a subset of scripts can be meaningfully demo'd at all, time-limited or otherwise, so if you've figured out a way to demonstrate these wares on a time-limited basis, your prospective customers may well be delighted. And that's really what the whole thread is about.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Qie Niangao

[Rolig Loon]

43 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

In fact, as a scripter, I'd think only a subset of scripts can be meaningfully demo'd at all, time-limited or otherwise, so if you've figured out a way to demonstrate these wares on a time-limited basis, your prospective customers may well be delighted.

This is quite true, and it's why I have never had a demo option for the scripted items I sell. If I were counting on them for a major chunk of my income in SL, I might feel differently. As it is, I'm faced with a rather simple choice: (a) go to the trouble of figuring out how to make a meaningful demo for the few people who really want one or (b) sell to people who are willing to buy without a demo.  I've almost always gone with option (b) as long as I have been in SL and have never -- that I can recall -- had a note from anyone who was miffed about not having a demo.

[elleevelyn]

12 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

Do they expect photogs to give credit to every single object used in each photo?

we are talking about full view demo products. These are not the same as products that we have bought or have been gifted to us.

is a bit ethically hazardous for a photographer to talk themselves into using a creator's product line as some kind of free-to-use photo prop warehouse when the prop items are clearly marked as being for sale. Just because a 20 minute time preview might enable this behaviour, doesn't make it ethically acceptable

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, I wonder if a long-timed demo might hurt actual sales by making the demo itself satisfactory for some buyers: apparently SL selfies are such a thing that there's even a market for static poses (!), so might a demo on a generous enough timer be all those selfie-posers need? (That may be paranoid; the whole selfie phenomenon is alien to me.)

Well, what you call "SL selfies" encompasses a pretty wide range of SL photography, from what are essentially virtual Instagram pics (true "selfies") to what is sometimes some pretty breathtaking artwork. And yes, there's a large market for "static poses(!)" -- I own literally hundreds of static poses myself, carefully categorized, organized, and described so I can find what I need relatively quickly.

Your apparent astonishment is akin to being surprised that some RL photographs and artwork are carefully posed, and not all live action captures.

And yes, I'm sure there are photographers who do, or would, take advantage of timed demos to avoid actually paying for articles on display in their shots. I wouldn't do this myself: a large percentage of my purchases in SL are props, poses, and various garments, hair, etc., specifically bought with pics in mind. But I can well understand the temptation.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, what you call "SL selfies" encompasses a pretty wide range of SL photography, from what are essentially virtual Instagram pics (true "selfies") to what is sometimes some pretty breathtaking artwork. And yes, there's a large market for "static poses(!)" -- I own literally hundreds of static poses myself, carefully categorized, organized, and described so I can find what I need relatively quickly.

Your apparent astonishment is akin to being surprised that some RL photographs and artwork are carefully posed, and not all live action captures.

Hmmm. Kind of, maybe—or maybe the opposite. I get it that there are many skills that go into successful photography, and in SL I'm all for value chains, so in the abstract I can see a place for a pose-creating specialty. The thing is, static poses are orders of magnitude easier to create, technically, than dynamic animations. That's not to say there's no art in it, but I'd think the photographer has the choice of sorting through those "hundreds of static poses" they acquired, or making poses to perfectly match their intent for the image, like posing a RL model.

But I'm not even an amateur photographer in RL nor SL. For all I know, some/many/all RL photographers have a fixed repertoire of go-to poses they always use, instead of the fashion shoot stereotype of coaxing the model through a sequence of seductive contortions that (I've presumed) are one-time events.

Posing is surely a different craft from, say, lighting, but… well, I dunno. Scripters certainly borrow "cliche" code and off-the-shelf components for parts that don't require original insight, and what do I know about what requires fresh creativity in a photograph?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:03 AM, Qie Niangao said:

apparently SL selfies are such a thing that there's even a market for static poses (!), so might a demo on a generous enough timer be all those selfie-posers need? (That may be paranoid; the whole selfie phenomenon is alien to me.)

Static poses are a massive market and have been since I started my pose store back in pre-mesh/pre-bento days. Aside from the occasional piercings, it's the only thing that sold for me with any real consistency. My ancient pre-bento poses still sell today, here and there. I never picked it back up post-bento, mostly due to not wanting to switch software (I loathe Blender). I do miss it, though, so I tend to create my own via Black Dragon on occasion.

Posing anims dominate every Animation category on the MP - even gestures and dances. In-world, the selection is just as large. Why? Take a look at the gatrillion Second Life-focused Flickr accounts and groups. Second Life on Instagram and Twitter. Second Life on Reddit. All of the dozens of photo threads here. The majority of those photos all utilize static poses (if they're not frozen from an AO or piece of animated furniture).

 

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

The thing is, static poses are orders of magnitude easier to create, technically, than dynamic animations.

I wish. For me, I'd say creating static poses was only slightly less difficult than animation. Both were hard. I used the same software for both (back then, I was bouncing between Daz 3D and QAvimator), and it was not unusual for me to spend several hours up to an entire day creating just one single static pose. Double that time if I was working on a pose for two avatars. I worked from photo references much of the time and learned quite a bit about human anatomy in the process.

Long story short, it took a lot of time, effort, and studying to create a pose that not only looked realistic and natural, but that would not throw an avatar out of whack once imported into SL and used on, say, furniture. Hand collapsing into the knee, ankle twisted when combined with our wonky shoes, arm squished into the hips on differently sized avatars - things we can now fix thanks to in-viewer and purchasable pose tools, but were not immediately available back then. Hours of posing and testing and reworking and fixing. 

 

More on topic - there is an absolute ton of work that goes into SL photography. For some, they keep it simple and prefer to stand wherever they are and take a shot. For others (raises hand), they purchase backdrops, props, furniture, buy/rent land for space to set up scenes, purchase a zillion pose packs or create their own poses, set up lighting, purchase clothing and hair, on and on and on. And this is where some, in an effort to save money because everything else tends to be somewhat pricey, think it's okay to scoop up a bunch of demos of outfits they only want for a photograph or two, and take photos while wearing them. It's definitely not. I understand why creators are hesitant to give out unobscured demos due to that. 

I don't have a good solution, though. Timed demos make sense in those cases, as it can sometimes take a few hours for some to get a good shot, but for the quick photographers, 5, 10, 20 minutes might be enough. So, I get it. I hate it, but I get it. My personal preference is the big ole DEMO or store branding sign floating around my head/face to prevent that sort of thing without obscuring the outfit I'm trying to view/test, but I'm sure others probably hate that, too. Not sure what an ideal solution would look like, really.

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

we are talking about full view demo products. These are not the same as products that we have bought or have been gifted to us.

is a bit ethically hazardous for a photographer to talk themselves into using a creator's product line as some kind of free-to-use photo prop warehouse when the prop items are clearly marked as being for sale. Just because a 20 minute time preview might enable this behaviour, doesn't make it ethically acceptable

DUH! There have been demos in SL since I first registered nearly 20 years ago.

Every creation in SL IS a prop regardless of demo status or lack of. There are "free to use" props everywhere you go. There are no laws against it and certainly aren't any restrictions on it placed by LL. Just because a creator can slap a timer on a demo doesn't make it ethically acceptable, to the customer. 

Examples of "free to use" props:

 

Poor Inara. She's going to have one hell of a long list of props on the last image alone. I know it's hers because she signed it.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Static poses are a massive market

Yeah, my "surprise" at that was ironic; it's hard not to appreciate the size of that market on the evidence of the number of creators showing those poses at events, for example. My intended point was that the demand for static poses reveals there must be a lot of people taking photos of statically posed avatars, and what those avatars are wearing may only be needed for the duration of the one photo shoot.

One can imagine unpacking fresh copies of a wardrobe of timed demos, attaching them all at once for that photo shoot, and beating the clock on them all. Or setting up the shoot on no-scripts land to defeat the timers altogether. And to be honest, I'm not even sure that's really "cheating" the demo creator, although it feels icky. Wearing an item for just one image is so different from how I wear clothes that it also feels wrong to make those users pay the same for one photo shoot as I pay for clothes I'll use in different outfits I might wear to events for years. So now the more I think about it, I'm not so sure what I think.

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

For me, I'd say creating static poses was only slightly less difficult than animation.

Now that I do find surprising. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that before. It's not that pose-making isn't an art (as I said) but my few dismal attempts at animation convinced me that it required both anatomy and choreography and wasn't something approachable by mere mortals.

Either way, though, I'd be eager to see what poses Scylla would create for her photos—assuming we haven't already.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Hmmm. Kind of, maybe—or maybe the opposite. I get it that there are many skills that go into successful photography, and in SL I'm all for value chains, so in the abstract I can see a place for a pose-creating specialty. The thing is, static poses are orders of magnitude easier to create, technically, than dynamic animations. That's not to say there's no art in it, but I'd think the photographer has the choice of sorting through those "hundreds of static poses" they acquired, or making poses to perfectly match their intent for the image, like posing a RL model.

But I'm not even an amateur photographer in RL nor SL. For all I know, some/many/all RL photographers have a fixed repertoire of go-to poses they always use, instead of the fashion shoot stereotype of coaxing the model through a sequence of seductive contortions that (I've presumed) are one-time events.

Posing is surely a different craft from, say, lighting, but… well, I dunno. Scripters certainly borrow "cliche" code and off-the-shelf components for parts that don't require original insight, and what do I know about what requires fresh creativity in a photograph?

Uh oh, now you've done it. You've riled the photographers.

I could write a very long response to this, elaborating on and supplementing what Ayashe has said. I'll begin by noting that there is  a "vocabulary" of set poses that RL photographers and artists frequently use, just as there are set and established ways to frame a shot (the Rule of Thirds, the Golden Ratio, etc.) or light it ("Butterfly Lighting," "Split Lighting," etc.). In painting, consider the cultural importance of the "Woman reclining on a couch" (see Titian's "Venus of Urbino" and Manet's "Olympia," which are the most famous examples, but there are literally thousands of paintings using this basic composition). Portrait photographers similarly have a variety of conventional poses they call upon. And the Instagram pose is very nearly its own genre.

How SL photographers use these as they are expressed through static poses varies enormously. There are SL creators who produce backdrops with poses that are meant to be used together, and one result is a tendency to see a fair number of photos on Flickr that are composed in the same way.

I suspect that most "amateur" photographers do use poses "out of the box," but anyone who is (*cough*) serious about making pics in SL will use add-ons that allow them to modify and adjust those poses. I use the LeLutka Axis Hud, which allows one to create custom facial expressions and head positions, for literally every photo I create. There are additionally dozens of commercial posers such as Animare and AnyPose -- the latter, if you have the deluxe version, allows you to export your pose as a BVH file, and you can use it in conjunction with the Fate Hand Poser as well. And of course, there is the Black Dragon in-viewer poser, which is a godsend for photographers, and that I use in some way for probably 3/4 of my shots. All of these options are much easier than creating a Bento pose in Blender with the Avastar add-on. If I want a shot of a woman walking through a door, smiling and looking the left, and holding, say, a glass, I can relatively easily get that look using a commercial static pose that I've modified using in-world or in-viewer tools. Why reinvent the wheel, and spend hours in Blender doing it instead?

As for "fresh creativity," poses are just one component of that. Lighting, setting, composition, camera angle and view field are all as important, and sometimes more. Titian and Manet both posed a naked woman on a chaise longe -- but it's hard to imagine more different paintings, even if the one is clearly referencing the other.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Scylla Rhiadra]

37 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Either way, though, I'd be eager to see what poses Scylla would create for her photos—assuming we haven't already.

Dear god. Put me on the spot much?

This pose, for my pic "Magdelene," used a greatly modified static "lying" pose, mostly using the BD poser. I wanted the figure on the bed to be in a relatively contorted position, and reaching up out of the shadow towards Artemisia Gentileschi's painting of the "Mary Magdelene in Ecstasy." Needless to say, there aren't commercial poses that do quite what I was looking for.

ETA: I almost never use the animations that are built into objects: they don't allow enough granular control of the pose. Instead, I'll use a static pose loaded into a pose stand, that I can manipulate much more finely and easily.

I should add: this photo took days to produce, not just hours or minutes. There's no way I could use a timed demo of any of the elements here for it.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Ayashe Ninetails]

44 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

One can imagine unpacking fresh copies of a wardrobe of timed demos, attaching them all at once for that photo shoot, and beating the clock on them all. Or setting up the shoot on no-scripts land to defeat the timers altogether. And to be honest, I'm not even sure that's really "cheating" the demo creator, although it feels icky.

I find it highly unethical to do that, but perhaps that's due to being an ex-creator myself. Does every single item need to be credited, or even belong to the person, in a photo? Of course not. If you're going through the effort of styling your avatar specifically for the shot, though, it does seem really wrong to make use of demos - especially since, for some, photography goes beyond a simple hobby into paid work, or even blogging.

If I can buy a backdrop or prop solely for a photo shoot, surely I can buy the dress I want to wear, as well. My typical method is to wait for deep discounts/sales and just grab outfits/pieces/jewelry/etc. in various styles that I can see myself needing in the future. Those, group gifts, and event freebies keep me going and able to "shop" from my own inventory without having to lay out too much money on one-off styling.

 

44 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Now that I do find surprising. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that before. It's not that pose-making isn't an art (as I said) but my few dismal attempts at animation convinced me that it required both anatomy and choreography and wasn't something approachable by mere mortals.

A lot of that might have to do with my general approach, to be fair. I'm a perfectionist, and I can sense when my virtual body just doesn't "feel" and look right in certain poses - weight distribution is off, my torso needs a slight tilt, shoulders don't quite rotate that far so arms look wildly off, etc. I started crafting my own poses and found myself preoccupied with the minor details almost nobody else would ever notice. It's even worse now that we've got bento - fingers being off and items not being properly held or touched with parts of objects clipping into the hands really drives me NUTS. So, I zoom in and correct everything - going as far as spending an hour just on finger placement, down to the joints. It's probably a good thing I don't sell poses now that we're fully bento. It'd take a week per pose. 😂

The posing/photo discussion probably belongs in its own thread, but it'd be fun to chat about and I've got tons of photo examples if someone wants to start it! *looks at Scylla...*

Edited September 29, 2023 by Ayashe Ninetails
Grammaring

[Silent Mistwalker]

41 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, my "surprise" at that was ironic; it's hard not to appreciate the size of that market on the evidence of the number of creators showing those poses at events, for example. My intended point was that the demand for static poses reveals there must be a lot of people taking photos of statically posed avatars, and what those avatars are wearing may only be needed for the duration of the one photo shoot.

One can imagine unpacking fresh copies of a wardrobe of timed demos, attaching them all at once for that photo shoot, and beating the clock on them all. Or setting up the shoot on no-scripts land to defeat the timers altogether. And to be honest, I'm not even sure that's really "cheating" the demo creator, although it feels icky. Wearing an item for just one image is so different from how I wear clothes that it also feels wrong to make those users pay the same for one photo shoot as I pay for clothes I'll use in different outfits I might wear to events for years. So now the more I think about it, I'm not so sure what I think.

Now that I do find surprising. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that before. It's not that pose-making isn't an art (as I said) but my few dismal attempts at animation convinced me that it required both anatomy and choreography and wasn't something approachable by mere mortals.

Either way, though, I'd be eager to see what poses Scylla would create for her photos—assuming we haven't already.

Static poses are cheaper than the animated ones such as the kind runway models use. In the early days static was all you could get. The non static ones are usually of a higher quality.

It shouldn't be surprising that photogs use static poses over non static ones due to cost alone.

The clothing the models wear on the runway are usually free of charge and the model is allowed to keep and wear them. I never ran across any clothing creator that got away with making models pay for the clothing they modeled, although I did hear about one. The show never happened.

Years ago, I managed to make a few animated poses. It's not something for everyone.

Simply put, timed demos aren't necessary when there are other "tried and true" methods that can be used.

As far as demoing scripts, seems to me the best thing to do is have a bit of land where they can be seen in action. Of course, it all depends on what the scripts are for. Some scripts just don't lend themselves to being an adequate demo.

Scylla's Dungeon Poses? *runs far away very fast

[Scylla Rhiadra]

42 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Does every single item need to be credited, or even belong to the person, in a photo? Of course not.

I'm reminded of a guy who was chatting me up a year or so ago. In the course of our slightly flirtatious banter, I mentioned that I was an SL photographer. His response was "Oh, so you take screen shots of other people's creations?"

After I'd doused the many small spot fires, and propped up the broken wall that were the unfortunate side effect of my explosion, I gained an additional revenge by treating him to a miniature 20 minute lecture on landscape art, the importance of lighting and composition, a short digression on Aristotle's response to Plato's strictures on poets, and Ansel Adams. So, I asked rhetorically, the real creative force of this image comes from the guys who built the church, and not Adams, who merely "snapped" the pic?

I rarely credit stuff I'm wearing in my pics, or anything that I've bought for the shot, but I do include SLURLs for places I've taken them, in part as a "thank you" to those who've generously built them for me and others to use, and in part as an acknowledgement of their creativity.

42 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I started crafting my own poses and found myself preoccupied with the minor details almost nobody else would ever notice. It's even worse now that we've got bento - fingers being off and items not being properly held or touched with parts of objects clipping into the hands really drives me NUTS. So, I zoom in and correct everything - going as far as spending an hour just on finger placement, down to the joints. It's probably a good thing I don't sell poses now that we're fully bento. It'd take a week per pose. 

Yeah. Another example for Qie of a modified pose. This is a much much simpler shot, using a commercial pose, but with head and face, both arms, and especially the left hand modified. OMG, I spent . . . 45 mins? . . . getting the hand holding the cigarette the way I wanted it to look.

 

25 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Scylla's Dungeon Poses?

EEEP!

WHO TOLD YOU?????

Edited September 29, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Love Zhaoying]

I feel the last few posts are an excuse to get Scylla to show provocative Art pictures.

ART! PICTURES!

That is all.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I feel the last few posts are an excuse to get Scylla to show provocative Art pictures.

ART! PICTURES!

That is all.

 

I don't need no stinking excuse.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't need no stinking excuse.

Good grrl.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

EEEP!

WHO TOLD YOU?????

*points with chin at (??? ???) 🤭

[Qie Niangao]

49 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Dear god. Put me on the spot much?

Aren't you glad I did? (I am.)

I had a sneaking suspicion you might make a pose now and again. I hadn't really thought of the tools that use layered animations but I very much had AnyPose and the like in mind. ("The like" including the venerable "U-Poser" by Gearsawe Stonecutter that I still occasionally rez and marvel at.)

Back to the thread: As you say, there's a distinction or at least a spectrum between "amateur" and "(*cough*) serious" photography. I have some preconceived notion that (however they pose their avatars) the amateurs vastly outnumber the serious photographers, and that therefore those on that more populated side are the ones where a "timed-demo loophole" might present a problem for the demo maker. Or an opportunity for the hobbyist shutterbug. Probably not. But it would be fascinating to hear from a clothing creator who uses timed demos specifically to encourage their products to be used in casual photos, no sale expected.

[Rowan Amore]

A few places sell packs of poses.  Perhaps 6 or so and include static AND slightly animated ones.  I like those as some I might use as a stand in my AO and the static ones for pictures.