LaraX?

[Gabriele Graves]

It's irrelevant to me whether it's free or whether they charge for it.  If I'd wanted to change bodies, I would already have done that and the price wouldn't have been an issue either way.  The purchase price of my Lara is just a tiny drop in a vast ocean compared to all that I have bought for it since then.  Lara X just seems to be a variation on a theme though and there's been nothing shown that's compelling enough to make me want to change.

[Fionalein]

Of course there will be people changing to the new body. But looking back on my hoarded inventory of outfits items and all the shopping I did to get there makes me wonder wether I should go through that pain and effort all again just because someone tossed a free body at me - especially once they have already proven unreliable and for what I know could repeat the stunt and switch to from LaraX to LaraReloaded next year because it struck their fancy or maybe because sales tanked for some "mysterious" reasons. My tops, my bottoms, my jewellery, all are rigged for the old body, I cannot mix them with the new stuff.

But: whatever I do, whatever you do is completely irrelevant. How will the necessity to restart from scratch affect people's furture shopping? It needs a lot of people to change the market, predicting how large chunks of us will react to the change is the big question we do not have answers for.

tldr:

Some people will adopt the change, some people won't, we'll have to see if it hurts them.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Fionalein
rearranged for clarity and more fluent readability

[Cinos Field]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Maitreya aren't stupid enough to charge for this, that's the difference.

 

Every single existing customer gets the update, that is why I'd be extremely surprised if this doesn't result in content being released for it almost immediately.

Yeah, but I'm not going to walk around naked or with one decent outfit over hundreds of quality outfits that match my tastes.

So I won't be able to switch until it has a ton of support already. The Belleza Gen X still doesn't have enough... and unless this one launches with an absolute megaton of clothes it's going to face the same problem even if it's free.

I think, anyway.

[AmeliaJ08]

8 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

Yeah, but I'm not going to walk around naked or with one decent outfit over hundreds of quality outfits that match my tastes.

So I won't be able to switch until it has a ton of support already. The Belleza Gen X still doesn't have enough... and unless this one launches with an absolute megaton of clothes it's going to face the same problem even if it's free.

I think, anyway.

I think given the market share that people who currently make for Lara 5.3 will quickly switch to making for Lara X. There will be a delay though, no doubt and I'm sure we might also see a period of dual 5.3/X releases.

Gen X hasn't got the market share to begin with because they thought charging $5k (or was it even more? I can't remember) was going to work, if nobody (relatively) owns the body it's not going to be a popular one for creators to spend time rigging for.

Just my thoughts though, I just think the critical part of this being a (major) update that is given to all existing customers for free makes this a bit different to the situation when an entirely new body is launched at a price.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Cinos Field]

48 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I think given the market share that people who currently make for Lara 5.3 will quickly switch to making for Lara X. There will be a delay though, no doubt and I'm sure we might also see a period of dual 5.3/X releases.

Gen X hasn't got the market share to begin with because they thought charging $5k (or was it even more? I can't remember) was going to work, if nobody (relatively) owns the body it's not going to be a popular one for creators to spend time rigging for.

Just my thoughts though, I just think the critical part of this being a (major) update that is given to all existing customers for free makes this a bit different to the situation when an entirely new body is launched at a price.

 

 

It's a fair point and I do admire your optimism. It would be nice if we all got a new and updated Lara with equal support soon...

[Zalificent Corvinus]

47 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Just my thoughts though, I just think the critical part of this being a (major) update that is given to all existing customers for free makes this a bit different to the situation when an entirely new body is launched at a price.

That is EXACTLY what Over-Priced-Feet Inc probably said, before they committed commercial suicide with a "free update to an incompatible new version", and plunged their brand from top 3 to not-even-top-20 in a matter of months.

[Persephone Emerald]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:21 PM, Tayt3rChip said:

I copied this picture of what Lara X bodies will look like, so we're reminded of how they'll look. These look like attractive bodies with good slider responsiveness, imo.

Blueberry's recent survey of their customers showed 42% of them use Maiytreya Lara (regular + Petite). All of those people can get a free Lara X. Blueberry is then certainly going to rig for Lara X. They'll probably still rig for regular Lara too, at least until future surveys show one of these bodies is no longer very popular.

When any body is getting more than a third of the market share, it makes sense for most creators to make skin, clothing, and attachments for it. 

How many users will switch from Lara to Lara X we don't know yet, and neither do creators, but I think it's reasonable to assume that many will. Many people who have Lara bodies have complained about the shoulders. Many complained that they couldn't get the kinds of curves they wanted. Some of these people switched to Legacy, Reborn, Kupra or other bodies, but if they ever bought Lara, they're eligible to get the free update that includes Lara X. Some of them will get the update, and some of those people might like Lara X enough to start wearing it and buying clothes for it.

There are going to be a sizable number of people at least trying Lara X, and many of these people will want to buy clothes for it too.

Jump forward now to the Black Friday and December sales periods. What if Maitreya were to update all their clothes to include Lara X sizes and then give store credit as a group gift? What if Blueberry updates some of their clothes to include Lara X sizes and then gives store credit as a group gift? 

Some people who have Lara X are going to buy clothes for it. The more people buy for it, the more creators will create for it. By 2024, Lara X might be more popular than Lara Classic, but we won't really know until we get there.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Gabriele Graves]

Lara v5.3 is every bit as attractive, in my opinion, and also has good slider responsiveness.  If that wasn't so then there wouldn't be 36.6% of the market share already taken by it.

I wouldn't even trust a marketing promo shot from Velour to necessarily be a good representation of what the body or the skin looks like.

It's easy to get carried away on hype and marketing because that's what it is designed to do.

I don't expect any skins for Lara X to look much different than they do on Lara.  After all we are told that the changes are subtle even though they are enough to make the rig incompatible.

Any visual improvements over Lara are small and subjectively in the eye of the beholder.
 

[Orwar]

52 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Blueberry's recent survey of their customers showed 42% of them use Maiytreya Lara (regular + Petite).

   Whilst Blueberry is a popular brand, a poll like that is not going to be totally accurate. A fair few people use several bodies, whilst the poll is capped to 1 vote per avatar (usually, and, hopefully). 

   I reckon @Lucia Nightfire's data is more interesting to look at, although the same issue of any given person/avatar using several bodies at different times (as far as I can recall, any given avatar is only scanned once? Not sure how that works precisely).

   As of today (08/08): 

 

#1 : Maitreya - Lara : 149750 : 31.3%
#2 : Signature - Gianni : 33276 : 6.9%
#3 : Belleza - Jake : 26618 : 5.5%
#4 : eBODY - Reborn : 24426 : 5.1%
#5 : MeshBody - Legacy (Female) : 23421 : 4.9%
#6 : MeshBody - Classic (Female) : 18111 : 3.7%
#7 : MeshBody - Legacy (Athletic Male) : 16036 : 3.3%
#8 : MeshBody - Legacy (Male) : 14497 : 3.0%
#9 : Inithium - Kupra : 14051 : 2.9%
#10 : LucyBody - Atenea : 12446 : 2.6%

   Of course, that includes both male and female avatars (and anything in between and beyond), as well as non-humanoid avatars. But it severely swings in Maitreya's favour (whilst it's slightly lower, the 2nd most popular goes from 23% in the poll to 5.1% of avatars actually around the grid). 

[Rowan Amore]

The only reason I stopped using Lara was because of the arms/shoulders.  There's a ton of older items I own that I'd love to wear but they just don't look good on Lara compared to similar items on Reborn.  Since I won't be able to.wear.those older items on the LaraX, I don't see myself switching.  There's just no need for me to do so.   Most stores now include Reborn in their new releases.

Some stores may include LaraX for redelivery but we can be assured, Blueberry won't be one of them.  🤔🙄

[Cinos Field]

One of Lara's main strengths is that it has a generation of clothing... so you can get a wide variety of styles for it. Whereas newer output tends to be very "suburban mom" which I guess is just 2020s fashion. Crop tops, cardigans, and waist high jeans shorts.

I haven't found a single pair of low-waisted, flared jeans made for Lara this decennium but I'm old so I demand that style.

[Gabriele Graves]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Some stores may include LaraX for redelivery but we can be assured, Blueberry won't be one of them.  🤔🙄

QFT.

It's also kinda funny but if I were going to switch bodies at this point, I actually have more stuff for Reborn or Legacy, etc. than anyone could possibly provide at launch for Lara X.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Ayashe Ninetails]

This feels more like a creator update than a customer one, considering it came about as a result of Lara developer requests, so I'd be pretty shocked if Lara X wasn't picked up fairly quickly by those who aren't fond of the current devkit.

The redelivery question is an interesting one, though. I don't know how many creators go back to re-rig old content. Most things I see are new releases with new rigs included. There are a couple stores where a wander through is like a trip through time - old releases include Slink and Isis and Lara, might find a few with Kupra, new ones with Gen X, Reborn, Legacy, and Lara, etc.

[Marianne Little]

Slink upgraded their bodies for free and failed.

But Slink had already dropped very much in popularity. The body had add-on hands and feet for the longest time. And were so stringent, that you had to own not three pair of feet, but four, to get an upgraded body bundle.

I, as most Slink owners, had three pair of feet. The low, medium and high. 

The lack of alpha cuts made it too hard to use. One of my alts are still using the Hourglass, the one with alpha cuts. It was my intention to use alpha layers only, but I did not have patience enough to find and test 100 alpha layers. And not enough time to make my own.

Add together that - forced to use add-on feet and have no alpha cuts on a body that had alredy dropped in popularity.

No wonder it failed.

[Marianne Little]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

This feels more like a creator update than a customer one, considering it came about as a result of Lara developer requests, so I'd be pretty shocked if Lara X wasn't picked up fairly quickly by those who aren't fond of the current devkit.

The redelivery question is an interesting one, though. I don't know how many creators go back to re-rig old content. Most things I see are new releases with new rigs included. There are a couple stores where a wander through is like a trip through time - old releases include Slink and Isis and Lara, might find a few with Kupra, new ones with Gen X, Reborn, Legacy, and Lara, etc.

On one hand, it is more work to rig for X and include it in previous releases. And the customers will get X sizes for free, it is a waste of time and money.

On the other hand, customers react positive to free updates, and happy customers are returning customers.

How was it with Kupra and Reborn? Did creators update previous releases with those sizes, or not?

If I take a crazy guess, the number of free updates for X, could be the same as the number of Reborn sizes in prevous releases.

I guess it depends on the creator, if they think Maitreya is the major customer base for them. They will do more to please Maireya owners, and maybe add some X rigged clothes for free updates.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

12 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

How was it with Kupra and Reborn? Did creators update previous releases with those sizes, or not?

I don't recall seeing any clothing stores that did that for their entire line, come to think of it. Almost every store I shop in has older releases with only old rigs included, but whole new lines that include some of the newer bodies. Some will re-release older stuff with new, updated textures and include new rigs, as well.

I have seen it with popular body mods here and there. Apricot Paws, for example, updates feet to include newest bodies as they're released and redelivers those automatically (thank you AP!). Some body mods from other places don't seem to get updated, though. New releases are made with the new rigs included instead, so it's possible to find a lot of Maitreya-only or Jake-only stuff still floating around.

[Cayenne Republic]

Seems you both want to make things more difficult than they actually are. 

I'm talking about outfits. You make an outfit with a body - no problem. 

[Persephone Emerald]

5 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Whilst Blueberry is a popular brand, a poll like that is not going to be totally accurate. A fair few people use several bodies, whilst the poll is capped to 1 vote per avatar (usually, and, hopefully). 

   I reckon @Lucia Nightfire's data is more interesting to look at, although the same issue of any given person/avatar using several bodies at different times (as far as I can recall, any given avatar is only scanned once? Not sure how that works precisely).

   As of today (08/08): 

 

#1 : Maitreya - Lara : 149750 : 31.3%
#2 : Signature - Gianni : 33276 : 6.9%
#3 : Belleza - Jake : 26618 : 5.5%
#4 : eBODY - Reborn : 24426 : 5.1%
#5 : MeshBody - Legacy (Female) : 23421 : 4.9%
#6 : MeshBody - Classic (Female) : 18111 : 3.7%
#7 : MeshBody - Legacy (Athletic Male) : 16036 : 3.3%
#8 : MeshBody - Legacy (Male) : 14497 : 3.0%
#9 : Inithium - Kupra : 14051 : 2.9%
#10 : LucyBody - Atenea : 12446 : 2.6%

   Of course, that includes both male and female avatars (and anything in between and beyond), as well as non-humanoid avatars. But it severely swings in Maitreya's favour (whilst it's slightly lower, the 2nd most popular goes from 23% in the poll to 5.1% of avatars actually around the grid). 

Lucia Nightfire's data is excellent, but as you said yourself, it not the same sample group as Blueberry's is, so it's apples and oranges. Most people eat fruit, but people buying from an apple farm will probably prefer apples. Blueberry polled slightly under 4000 customers, asking for their favorite and 2nd favorite mesh body. They only sell women's clothing, so no male bodies were included in the poll. If anything then, their 36% of customers favoring Maitreya represents a *lower* fraction of the total population than Lucia Nightfire's 31% of avatars wearing Maitreya Lara. Either way, it's still the majority of female mesh bodies worn.

Having looked at the Bonnie Bots data before though, I've seen that many people are wearing older versions of Maitreya Lara. Many of those people might not update to Lara X, just because they never update their body and might not even know when there is an update.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Zarabeth Zenith]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:29 PM, Cayenne Republic said:

I can assure you it's no more of a nightmare than any other object you switch out in an outfit, such as hair. Consider the new body as you would a new wig and proceed accordingly. Don't update old outfits, just use it in new ones if it suits you. 

I switch between bodies and avatars on a daily basis with no issues whatsoever.

Thank you Cayenne! I've been practicing back and forth between Lara 5.3 and Senra Jamie.😀

[Ceka Cianci]

Honestly, if these bodies end up being really close to each other in shape and size, I can't see a lot switching over for a long while, if ever..

I think there are some that are sticklers for details and put off by some things, but there is also some that those things don't bother..

If there isn't something that jumps out at me  saying to me, omg this is soo much of an improvement that I get excited about it.. then I probably won't do a thing and just stay where I am with the 5.3..

Until I can have  both bodies right next to each other and comparing them, I'm not gonna call doom for either of them yet..

It would still take a good while before Lara X really dents 5.3's market ability.. that is if it ever does.. There is such a ton of things for the 5.3 spread over so many communities..

I just think it's way too soon to be calling it game over yet for the 5.3.

New customers won't be buying either or, they'll be buying the Maitreya body and getting both.. so every customer  still has the option to go either way..

How many put bets on the one that has more stuff on the market?  hehehe

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Fionalein]

8 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Having looked at the Bonnie Bots data before though, I've seen that many people are wearing older versions of Maitreya Lara. Many of those people might not update to Lara X, just because they never update their body and might not even know when there is an update.

What's the benefit in 5.x? More avatar complexity from hand and feet I never use?

[steeljane42]

2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

What's the benefit in 5.x? More avatar complexity from hand and feet I never use?

You did mention how you never got newer Lelutka heads working on Maitreya. That would be one of the benefits, you need 5.x for the universal neck fit for any newer heads (neck type 1, size 0 like I wrote in another topic already). Separate tattoo/underwear/clothing layers is also 5.x's feature, it should probably make up for having to have hands/feet on. And BoM features without some extra "relay huds".

[Marianne Little]

I was going to write that, but @steeljane42was faster.

The three layers can't be removed from previous versions, so is the onion layer body without feet and hands lighter than the one with feet and hands, but no layers?

I am curious.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Marianne Little
rewrote question

[Zalificent Corvinus]

17 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

QFT.

It's also kinda funny but if I were going to switch bodies at this point, I actually have more stuff for Reborn or Legacy, etc. than anyone could possibly provide at launch for Lara X.

I've definately got more stuff in styles and colours I wear for Reborn, Legacy Perky, Kupra, Freya, Isis and Venus, the last two of which I've never worn or shopped for, than I will have for Not-Lara-Anymore in the first 6-12 months of it's existence.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

15 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I've definately got more stuff in styles and colours I wear for Reborn, Legacy Perky, Kupra, Freya, Isis and Venus, the last two of which I've never worn or shopped for, than I will have for Not-Lara-Anymore in the first 6-12 months of it's existence.

 

If you are anything like me then most of this wasn't even from redelivering existing purchases either.  It's from new purchases I've made over a long period of time since those bodies were introduced.