Parcel level bot detection

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

it's ultimately only a matter of convenience and inertia that unregistered bots might be detectable based on which viewer they profess to be running.

This is what I was thinking yesterday:

All LL would have needed to do is dedicate a bit to mean "Using 'unknown viewer' or API software" - and it would be up to anyone who cares to assume that means "Could be a Bot" ("unregistered" if the other bit isn't set).

[Qie Niangao]

25 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is what I was thinking yesterday:

All LL would have needed to do is dedicate a bit to mean "Using 'unknown viewer' or API software" - and it would be up to anyone who cares to assume that means "Could be a Bot" ("unregistered" if the other bit isn't set).

Right, but my point was that botrunners have a choice of ways around that: spoof a legit viewer to arbitrary precision (at some risk if discovered), or simply use a legit viewer with in-world scripts (to do some of the things bots do).

My real problem here is that I don't know what the bots actually do. I can't figure out how any of it is worth doing at all. I guess it's of some interest which mesh bodies and heads are gaining/losing market share (and that's readily collectible with in-world scripts, no need for a bot-specific client). There used to be some value in buying newly-listed below-market Mainland but I doubt one could lure a landbot for any bargain now. So what's paying the bills or even generating interest for bots now? The bbbots that shan't be named have a whole website full of stuff, none of which would motivate me to so much as launch a single command to collect all of it. Either some have an exceptionally low threshold of distraction or they're collecting stuff they aren't sharing—but what could that even be? A stalking network, maybe? I genuinely have no idea.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

or simply use a legit viewer with in-world scripts (to do some of the things bots do).

These days, automation software (uiPath, etc.) is pretty sophisticated and could probably work "easily" with the Official Viewer on Windows.  I'm not sure about Python-coded automation software (which has supplanted / replaced previous generation automation software like uiPath) as I haven't coded for it yet.  I only learned "Everybody uses Python now" recently at my job. 

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The bbbots that shan't be named have a whole website full of stuff, none of which would motivate me to so much as launch a single command to collect all of it. Either some have an exceptionally low threshold of distraction or they're collecting stuff they aren't sharing—but what could that even be? A stalking network, maybe? I genuinely have no idea.

I saw a post, I think connected to the BBBBB SLB20 exhibit, that mentioned "attachments" - as if the BBBBBB's gather info on what people are wearing or have attached.  Presumably to help creators/sellers know what is popular, etc.

The whole "collect information on mesh bodies/attachments/etc/" business sounds so outrageously silly to me, it is hard to take seriously.  But that's apparently the main use-case besides land surveys..?

ETA: By "Silly" I mean, "something I am not interested in".  I realize this same type of "survey" is almost definitely a "large driving factor" in tracking the most popular bodies / heads / etc., which is indeed important to the Second Life economy and people who follow those things. So yes, it is "serious". 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

So what's paying the bills or even generating interest for bots now?

Doing it just to enjoy doing it is a very valid reason. I've spent huge amounts of time in the past writing programmes just for the enjoyment of writing them. That was in the 90s and I'm talking about years. A few much quicker enjoyable projects were bot systems that I had no use for whatsoever, but I simply enjoyed writing them. I could see me creating the sort of system that gathers and publishes information in SL, just for the enjoyment of doing it. I won't because it doesn't interest me, but it's my nature to write things just for the enjoyment of doing it.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

Doing it just to enjoy doing it is a very valid reason. I've spent huge amounts of time in the past writing programmes just for the enjoyment of writing them.

Weirdo! 

j/k, UBU

[Paul Hexem]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I suspect not, but I'm not going to tell someone who has them popping in regularly on her property that she should just be tolerant.

Yeah, I'm not saying that, either.

I'm only warning that the current implementation is a placebo at best. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

14 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

It used to be in the scripted agents section before the rewrite, I believe.  It also.said we shouldn't bother caring since LL monitors search rankings and investigates.  😂

The only thing I could find was in a knowledge base article about creating search listings...

Search policies

Any attempt to inflate your rank artificially in search results, including the inappropriate use of traffic bots or Picks, could result in penalties to your rank, de-listing from search, and disciplinary action against your Second Life account.

 

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/About_Traffic#:~:text=Use of Bots to game,will result in further action.

Quote

Since 2009

In the Land and Sea blog^[1], Jack Linden discussed the use of bots for generating traffic. In here he states that almost everyone agrees that this is an unfair practice and although the use of bots in general is acceptable, the use for generating traffic is now considered an violation. In the blog it is summarized as follow:

• Use of Bots to game Traffic will be considered a violation.
• Bots are fine and we totally support their good use inworld, but we will deal with inappropriate use of them.
• Traffic has value as a land metric, and will remain.
• Responsible use of Land Bots is acceptable for now, but overuse will result in further action.

 

And for those who think LL doesn't consider the term bots and scripted agents to be interchangeable/mean the same thing. Incorrect.

Quote

A bot is an avatar which is controlled by a machine, rather than by a human. This can have various uses, such as to perform group invitations (which isn't possible via LSL), perform as a non-player character (NPC) in a roleplaying game, as mannequin in a shop etc.

 

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bot#:~:text=A bot is an avatar,mannequin in a shop etc.

 

And as a reminder.

Quote

This policy summarizes Linden Lab's policy on Scripted Agents. The policy covers all forms of Scripted Agents, such as bots, NPCs, and inviters. Any script or program that automates access to Second Life and its supporting web services through interfaces designed for the Second Life Viewer and its embedded browser is considered a Scripted Agent.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Scripted_Agent_Policy#:~:text=Any script or program that,are violations of this policy.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And for those who think LL doesn't consider the term bots and scripted agents to be interchangeable/mean the same thing. Incorrect.

I think Phil was getting "technical" (aka smartypants) by saying something is a "scripted agent" only if etc.!

I agree with you!!

[Phil Deakins]

50 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And for those who think LL doesn't consider the term bots and scripted agents to be interchangeable/mean the same thing. Incorrect.

Quote

I think you are referring to me - and making a mistake

I haven't said what LL think bots are. What I said was that not all  accounts that are registered as scripted agents are bots. I didn't say anything about what LL  thinks.

I'm not going to go into all sorts of explanations or even discussions. It's self-explanatory and I'll leave it there.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think Phil was getting "technical" (aka smartypants) by saying something is a "scripted agent" only if etc.!

I agree with you!!

What Phil says doesn't matter. What matters is what LL says.

[Love Zhaoying]

I say:

An Avatar is an Agent. 

A "scripted agent" is NOT only a "scripted agent" if it is identified as such. 

To the SCRIPTS it may not be a "scripted agent" if it was not identified as such.

In REALITY it is a "scripted agent" if it is a "scripted agent": An Avatar ("Agent") that is being operated by a script (whether using automation software with a Viewer, or an API, etc.).

So there! 

Not that anyone asked me.

* sticks out tongue and makes raspberry noises *

 

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

I think you are referring to me - and making a mistake

I haven't said what LL think bots are. What I said was that not all  accounts that are registered as scripted agents are bots. I didn't say anything about what LL  thinks.

I'm not going to go into all sorts of explanations or even discussions. It's self-explanatory and I'll leave it there.

 

23 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

What Phil says doesn't matter. What matters is what LL says.

What LL says doesn't really matter, either. I can wear a script to do bot things while I'm on ny account chatting with friends- none of the definitions fit at that point.

Or I can log into a bot account and go do people things, breaking the titles again. 

All that matters is how they enforce policy, which they currently don't.

[Phil Deakins]

I thought I'd bump this thread for this post because it's the right topic

A couple of days ago, a customer asked me for a device to detect and remove the frequent bots she gets on her parcel. So I added the option to one of my devices for her. Then I decided to create an object just for that purpose. It's ready now, and it's free to anyone here who asks me for it. Maybe later I'll put it up far sale at a nominal price but not yet.

It scans the parcel every few seconds and detects scripted agents. With scripted agents it can:-
* eject, permaban instantly, and save their names
* eject, permaban instantly, and not save their names
* send home, permaban instantly, and save their names
* send home, permaban instantly, and not save their names
* save their names and take no other action.

That's it. If anyone want one, PM me or IM me inworld.

ETA: I've added a function that spots scripted agents in the whole sim. It can't remove them from outside the parcel it's on but it stores their name with the dates and times they arrive. It can be useful for just checking what scripted agents come around.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Eowyn Southmoor]

I've noticed in the past 4 to 5 weeks that many roadside parcels on several mainland continents are starting to use some "bot identifying device".

Whilst that in itself isn't a problem, what is a problem is how this device seems to work. If you don't click on the external link it supplies to confirm you aren't a bot, then you are automatically added to the ban list. Now I'm not the sort of person to randomly click on external links within SL, so I hit ignore, and because of that, I am constantly being spammed with "You Are Banned Indefinitely" text whenever I drive past these locations.

What is worse though, is that I NEVER set foot on these peoples parcels to start with - this device is grabbing people who are on Linden protected roads, so it's operating outside the parcel it is on.  Not sure how this can be legal at all, but it's annoying as hell 

[elleevelyn]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

What is worse though, is that I NEVER set foot on these peoples parcels to start with - this device is grabbing people who are on Linden protected roads, so it's operating outside the parcel it is on.  Not sure how this can be legal at all, but it's annoying as hell 

AR the sender.  Is a violation for a scripted object to shout at people who are not on our own parcel

[Phil Deakins]

@Eowyn Southmoor

Perhaps you've set yourself as a scripted agent for some reason and forgot about it. Scripts can inspect avatars that are in the whole sim, as well as just on a parcel.

But you've given me a nice idea for an addition to the AntiBot device that I offered here - store the names of scripted agents that are in the whole sim, just to see what bots are around

[Eowyn Southmoor]

I checked my account and I'm definitely not set as a bot (I didn't know how to do this anyway so just had to log in to my dashboard to even discover how), but I will also add this isn't just a "me" issue - everyone I know who travels past these locations also has the issue, and its spreading.

I can't locate the device to AR it either, though with a quick MP search I'm reasonably sure what product it is.  Guess I will simply AR the owner as suggested.

[Fionalein]

If it spams you in chat, you can identify the object by rightclicking the "sender", that way you can identify it's creator.

[Fionalein]

23 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

...everyone I know who travels past these locations also has the issue, and its spreading.

That is actually good. If it is networked as I guess It will eventually hit some club's regulars, DJs and hosts which should lead to venue owners dropping the unreliable service in anger and word of mouth recommendations not to use it.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Fionalein

[Fionalein]

47 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

AR the sender.  Is a violation for a scripted object to shout at people who are not on our own parcel

This! SPAM is a reportable act. AR each parcel owner that spams you, tell your travelling friends to do the same, enjoy the angry review fallout once Governance Team starts patting some hands. If you wanna play nice tell the Governance Team that you think the device owner might not be aware their object is working outside boundaries, they will get patted on the hands more softly that way (though I doubt repeated offenders will be given the benefit of assumed ignorance).

[Orwar]

39 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

If you wanna play nice [...]

[Aethelwine]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Eowyn Southmoor

Perhaps you've set yourself as a scripted agent for some reason and forgot about it. Scripts can inspect avatars that are in the whole sim, as well as just on a parcel.

But you've given me a nice idea for an addition to the AntiBot device that I offered here - store the names of scripted agents that are in the whole sim, just to see what bots are around

Can your device also whitelist bots?

I rarely use security orbs but can see a reason to set up a skybox orb that excludes everyone except those I invite. Bots however are mostly harmless just recording my attachments or whatever, so I could happily whitelist them and let them go about their business unaffected.

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

I rarely use security orbs but can see a reason to set up a skybox orb that excludes everyone except those I invite. Bots however are mostly harmless just recording my attachments or whatever, so I could happily whitelist them and let them go about their business unaffected.

You could even want to rent a bot, would be bad if it were not allowed in, wouldn't it?

[Eowyn Southmoor]

2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

If it spams you in chat, you can identify the object by rightclicking the "sender", that way you can identify it's creator.

Unfortunately I can't.  No sender is indicated in local chat, it just says this:  [04:56:02] Second Life: You have been banned indefinitely

There are no words in the chat that are hyperlinked, unlike avi's, HUDs etc.