Parcel level bot detection

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: all prim babies should / must be set as "scripted agents"!

Idea 2: The friend of @Fionalein who makes the "Pony Party" bots, could branch out into "Thinking-Brain Labradors for the Handicapped" companion bots.

Edit: Product not available in Bellicosia! Terms and Conditions Apply!

Edited August 18, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Phil Deakins]

31 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You are trying to SELL me on the idea that SL is infested with a vast army of bots, more than half the concurrency figures, and that this 25,000 plus bot army needs to be dealt with, when in reality the 2,500 or so bots are a MINOR niggle for SOME people.

I'm not try to sell you anybody anything. If you'd bothered to read the thread from the beginning, you would have realised that frequent bots do annoy some people. For people like you and me, they are no bother all. I live high in the sky and rarely see one. Others live on the ground and get them far too frequently. I'm not interested in your numbers. Bots bother some people, regardless of how many are going all over the grid. What bothers them is none of your business. What's "MINOR" for you is not necessarily minor for everyone.
 

31 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Since one cannot detect "bots" via LSL anyway, only pick out accounts that actually have the voluntary set "scripted agent" flag, which as Qie's tale-of-alt-woe shows, doesn't mean the account is a "bot", and which won't be set on unregistered "bots" anyway, the whole idea of people NEEDING a "bot" detector that basically does not work, is a NON-Solution to a NON-Problem.

You must have been reading my posts lol. I've posted more than once that scripted agent does not always mean bot  

Just as you were wrong about me selling something, you are also wrong about my device being a non-solution. It deals with scripted agents very well  It even deals with my non-scripted-agent that is always wrongly identified by the flawed AGENT_AUTOMATED option as a scripted agent. But you would have known about that too if you'd read the thread

Incidentally, if the "certain individual", who talked about Radegast in the way described in your post on the previous page, was also a barb aimed at me, you are wrong again. Whoever it was, it certainly wasn't me

Edited August 18, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Idea 2: The friend of @Fionalein who makes the "Pony Party" bots, could branch out into "Thinking-Brain Labradors for the Handicapped" companion bots.

But wouldn't that equal to "To enter Belli, please leave your brain at the wardrobe desk." ?

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

But wouldn't that equal to "To enter Belli, please leave your brain at the wardrobe desk." ?

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

21 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm not interested in your numbers.

Actually, if I remember correctly, those are in fact YOUR numbers, at least the "deliberately conflate Tuesday Grid Roll concurrency with peak concurrency for a Saturday night to deliberately mis-lead people into accepting the fraudulent claim that over half the grid were bots" 25,000 plus number

The 2,500 figure was the result of a poster in your thread pointing out what you got wrong.

That clearly explains why I no longer accept data from you.

 

25 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

You must have been reading my posts lol. I've posted more than once that scripted agent does not always mean bot  

Your egos showing, I mentioned that fact in the bot-paranoia threads that lead to the creation of the estate level "no scripted agents" flag, AND in the thread responding to the announcement of said feature, referring to it as a "worthless placebo", some months ago.

Don't assume you are the only source of that data.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

35 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

You must have been reading my posts lol. I've posted more than once that scripted agent does not always mean bot  

Your egos showing

If you agree with Phil, "You must have been reading my posts lol".

If you disagree with Phil, "You would know if you had read the entire thread."

IJS!

 

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: all prim babies should / must be set as "scripted agents"!

They may be scripted but they ain't agents!

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Gabriele Graves said:

They may be scripted but they ain't agents!

Darn! I was hoping we could turn Belli into a "55+" community. No babies!

Wait..that idea is brilliant! In RL we DO have "55+" communities!

Edited August 18, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
ETA RL

[Gabriele Graves]

News Flash!  Arguments in Bot Topic on isle 12! 🤣

Edited August 18, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Zalificent Corvinus]

11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Wait..that idea is brilliant! In RL we DO have "55+" communities!

Wait... According to many of the "SL is dying because old people who are nearly dead" ranters, the WHOLE of SL is a 55+ community, LOL.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Wait... According to many of the "SL is dying because old people who are nearly dead" ranters, the WHOLE of SL is a 55+ community, LOL.

Yep and if so - the ones who want a prim baby are like the elderly woman I saw at the grocery carrying a baby doll as if it were a real baby.

[Garnet Psaltery]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Breaking News:

CEO of Anti-Bot SuperOrbs Inc says there are OBVIOUSLY so many bots about you NEED to get one of his Anti-Bot SuperOrbs today!

Pictures at 11.

I've been helping test the antibot, since I find bots intrusive and a resource drain, and in the space of 4 hours today it logged 3. 

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Actually, if I remember correctly, those are in fact YOUR numbers, at least the "deliberately conflate Tuesday Grid Roll concurrency with peak concurrency for a Saturday night to deliberately mis-lead people into accepting the fraudulent claim that over half the grid were bots" 25,000 plus number

The 2,500 figure was the result of a poster in your thread pointing out what you got wrong.

That clearly explains why I no longer accept data from you.

 

Your egos showing, I mentioned that fact in the bot-paranoia threads that lead to the creation of the estate level "no scripted agents" flag, AND in the thread responding to the announcement of said feature, referring to it as a "worthless placebo", some months ago.

Don't assume you are the only source of that data.

Not my numbers, and not my thread, no. Clearly, you remember incorrectly

Oh, and while I'm here, I should say that the only forum discussions and mentions I've ever had concerning Radegast (a post of yours on the previous page) were:-

* A couple of months ago: I posted in someone's thread, saying that I know a group of avatars that I believe are all logged in with Radegast. I didn't provide any details.

* Maybe 6 months ago: I tried to get Radegast running in a Raspberry Pi computer, which I use as my normal daily computer. It eventually did run for a few hours but the next day it failed to work, and hasn't worked since then. Then I discovered SpeedLight.

* Maybe a year ago or more: I suggested that someone tries it because his normal method of logging his legal bots in stopped working due to a temporary technical issue. A Linden was involved in that discussion because it affected plenty of people. I forget the details.

I don't remember any other mentions of, it but I can't guarantee that there weren't any.

You've got me mixed up with someone else.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

52 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I've been helping test the antibot, since I find bots intrusive and a resource drain, and in the space of 4 hours today it logged 3. 

I'm envious 

In 11 hours today, I've only had 1 on my little 512. There have been 18 in the sim in that time, but only 1 at my place.

[Qie Niangao]

55 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

There have been 18 in the sim in that time, but only 1 at my place.

If there's any protected Linden land in a region, I'd think a smart botrunner would target that as a safe permanent landing spot.

[Fionalein]

5 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

They may be scripted but they ain't agents!

LL's definition and the usual definition of agent might differ*

*as usually

[Phil Deakins]

And now for something completely old...

Early in this thread, I posted about what I'd found concerning one of my alts (circa 2007) that is always wrongly identified as a scripted agent by AGENT_AUTOMATED. Today I was using a different alt (circa 2010) to test a script, and it is also wrongly identified as a scripted agent. So the flaw in AUTO_AUTOMATED doesn't show up as rarely as I'd imagined.

I know what is wrong with AGENT_AUTOMATED, and I submitted a jira at the time, but it was wasn't understood and was unceremoniously closed.

The bottom line is that identifying scripted agents is flawed and can't be relied upon. Mostly it's fine, but sometimes it isn't.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

I've just done a test with 16 avatars. AGENT_AUTOMATED returned 4 of them as scripted agents, even though they are all registered as being controlled by a human. That's 25% errors!

It doesn't make any real difference to users of the AntiBot unless, like me, a store is located on the parcel. In that case, set it to log them but not to boot them

New jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234283

Edited August 19, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[xDancingStarx]

The whole severity of the "problem" of intrusive bots can be summed up by the fact that it needs scripts logging them in order to grasp their numbers. If there weren't region enter/leave messages, we wouldn't even be talking about this. It's NOT the case that you stand in your parcel and there's a bot appearing next to your avatar every 10 minutes. There is NO pressing issue of "intrusive" bots. There is NO market for "anti bot" orbs unless merchants create this false narrative to create a market. What you're doing here in the first place is blaming people who declare their bots as scripted agents, instead of paying them some respect for doing so. That you're not even talking about those who don't declare their bots as scripted agents is ridiculous. You're focusing on measures against bots declared as scripted agents and don't realize that it's completely useless. This whole feature has only been a placebo in the first place. When in doubt, people will just stop declaring their bots as scripted agents. As some are already doing. And there's absolutely nothing that can be done against it. The only "measures" against it are brought up by people who.. are not really too deep into the matter, starting with the non existing ability to safely recognize a viewer.

[Silent Mistwalker]

39 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

The whole severity of the "problem" of intrusive bots can be summed up by the fact that it needs scripts logging them in order to grasp their numbers. If there weren't region enter/leave messages, we wouldn't even be talking about this. It's NOT the case that you stand in your parcel and there's a bot appearing next to your avatar every 10 minutes. There is NO pressing issue of "intrusive" bots. There is NO market for "anti bot" orbs unless merchants create this false narrative to create a market. What you're doing here in the first place is blaming people who declare their bots as scripted agents, instead of paying them some respect for doing so. That you're not even talking about those who don't declare their bots as scripted agents is ridiculous. You're focusing on measures against bots declared as scripted agents and don't realize that it's completely useless. This whole feature has only been a placebo in the first place. When in doubt, people will just stop declaring their bots as scripted agents. As some are already doing. And there's absolutely nothing that can be done against it. The only "measures" against it are brought up by people who.. are not really too deep into the matter, starting with the non existing ability to safely recognize a viewer.

 

I don't appreciate being called a lair. I was there, you were not. People already don't declare all of their bots. That won't change no matter what LL does. You also weren't here apparently when everyone could see what viewer you used because it was displayed in the tag above your avatar's head. LL had to truncate that because people were being harassed for the viewer they used. That is a fact. 

[xDancingStarx]

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

People already don't declare all of their bots. 

 

Apparently some people declare their bots as scripted agents. Some don't. How many don't is speculation. What is not speculation is the reports of people logging avatars declared as scripted agents in their region, so apparently some people are sticking to the rules.

Quote

That won't change no matter what LL does.

What you're writing here is logically wrong. The more avatars declared as scripted agents are impacted in a negative way (in whatever way), the higher the tendency for people to not declare them as scripted agents. Of course this depends on what LL does or what people do.

Quote

You also weren't here apparently when everyone could see what viewer you used because it was displayed in the tag above your avatar's head. LL had to truncate that because people were being harassed for the viewer they used. That is a fact. 

This is one of the problems in these discussions, when people are just lacking knowledge and spread false information. The false information in this case is that you suggest that Linden can safely identify the viewer. What you're calling a fact is just factually wrong and misleading, since it's the viewer itself that reports to Linden what viewer it is. This false and misleading information keeps being brought up in these threads, gets corrected, forgotten, and brought up again. People who read this are misled to think that, yeah, there must be some easy solution to identify bots! No, there's not.

@Silent Mistwalker I see that you're laughing at this post in response instead of acknowledging the example used did not show that LL can safely identify a viewer, but that's fine, I expect this to be brought up again in the next thread anyway since the discussion about "bots" is usually driven like that.

Edited August 19, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Phil Deakins]

@xDancingStarx

Your opinions are exactly right - for you  Different people have different opinions, that's all. Also different people have different experiences of bots appearing nearby. Of those, different people have different attitudes to them. That's all it is.

LL gave us a means of identifying scripted agents, and some people want to make use of it. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Garnet Psaltery]

Well, I just wanted something that would keep out bots without the necessity of adding them to the visible parcel ban list.  It looks horribly unfriendly.  I have suggested that a certain other and much more complex security system add the facility to just ban individuals and let everyone else in (again with the idea of the list not being visible) but I have yet to receive a reply.

[Phil Deakins]

14 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Well, I just wanted something that would keep out bots without the necessity of adding them to the visible parcel ban list.  It looks horribly unfriendly.  I have suggested that a certain other and much more complex security system add the facility to just ban individuals and let everyone else in (again with the idea of the list not being visible) but I have yet to receive a reply.

That's how this started lol.

A few days ago, a potential customer just wanted a means of removing bots, so I added it to my LevelGuard, just for her. Since she has a whole sim, the LevelGuard was ideal. It didn't make it into my normal version that's on sale though. But I might add it later.

[Garnet Psaltery]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

That's how this started lol.

A few days ago, a potential customer just wanted a means of removing bots, so I added it to my LevelGuard, just for her. Since she has a whole sim, the LevelGuard was ideal. It didn't make it into my normal version that's on sale though. But I might add it later.

That's three of us who think it's a good idea.   If I get a favourable response from the other system makers then I'll post it here (assuming the topic remains open) in the interests of impartiality.