New Feature: Scripted Agent Estate Access Discussion

[EliseAnne85]

12 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

Resources which also include changes to Terms of Service

I'd agree in that our profiles are copyright protected including the photos we take of ourselves or of others who are our friends, family or partners.  Not to mention many people have poems and other things they have created solely themselves which should not be allowed to be harvested en masse.  If it happens here and there and we don't know about it; all I can say is 'nothing is perfect' but we can do way better than this.

And, the Machinema and Snapshot Policy needs to be written correctly to include one must ask a resident for consent before taking their snapshot because at the bottom of the MSP it says consent is not required for snapshots.   Well, in the real world consent is needed, as far as I know.  The Machinema and Snapshot Policy is poorly written even though it says more and less AND (paraphrasing) RL laws apply the same in SL for photography.

Here is part of it:

For machinima, you must have the consent of all Residents whose avatars or Second Life names are featured or recognizable in the machinima. This includes avatars who are featured in a shot, avatars whose names are legible, and avatars whose appearance is sufficiently distinctive that they are recognizable by members of the Second Life community. Consent is not required if an avatar is not recognizable and is merely part of a crowd scene or shown in a fleeting background. Consent is not required for any snapshots.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Snapshot_and_machinima_policy

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

 

  Well, in the real world consent is needed, as far as I know.  The Machinema and Snapshot Policy is poorly written even though it says more and less AND (paraphrasing) RL laws apply the same in SL for photography.

Here is part of it:

For machinima, you must have the consent of all Residents whose avatars or Second Life names are featured or recognizable in the machinima. This includes avatars who are featured in a shot, avatars whose names are legible, and avatars whose appearance is sufficiently distinctive that they are recognizable by members of the Second Life community. Consent is not required if an avatar is not recognizable and is merely part of a crowd scene or shown in a fleeting background. Consent is not required for any snapshots.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Snapshot_and_machinima_policy

In the US, you can take pictures in a public place without consent as long as photos aren't used for commercial purposes.  Other countries may have other guidelines.  

[EliseAnne85]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

In the US, you can take pictures in a public place without consent as long as photos aren't used for commercial purposes.

For private use to solely and only for one's self to view, yes, but that's not what these bots were doing.  They published them.  

So, it needs to be written you can take snapshots of others for private use but you may face litigation in publishing photos you have not received consent for or something to that affect.  

Also, in the TOS, I think it should state the copyright belongs to the username who took the photograph and it's their property as long as they followed all the guidelines, meaning took the photo of themselves where photos are allowed.  Some sims don't allow taking photos at all nor machinemas.    

Edited April 8, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

@Sid Nagy

Whew! So long as the AI hasn't assimilated us yet, we're safe!

[Annie Nova]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Whew! So long as the AI hasn't assimilated us yet, we're safe!

Resistance is Futile....

[Silent Mistwalker]

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Whew! So long as the AI hasn't assimilated us yet, we're safe!

 

10 minutes ago, Annie Nova said:

Resistance is Futile....

 

Missed it by that || much!

[EliseAnne85]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I often go to some very questionable places because I'm curious like that.  I don't for one second worry about someone knowing my avatar is there.

As has been already mentioned, there is no way to keep someone from keeping track.of any of this information.  The onus is on you (collectively) to ensure a clear division between RL and SL.

I don't think most good actor trackers care whether it's a questionable place or not.  Most good actor trackers simply want to know the 'most popular places'.  

But, when it comes down to tracking, stalking, harassing by bad actor bots, all it is is trouble at the least and blackmail at the worst.   Certainly there could be something in the TOS to prevent this latter part because it's stalking and stalking is illegal to my knowledge, so is blackmail.

Oh, and to make it all worse, I know there is some kind of new "tos" but I forgot what's it's called so I don't know how to find that.  

Edited April 8, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[belindacarson]

8 hours ago, benchthis said:

AI does not know me very well either I bet, I don't scan my face. Matter of fact at the shops now in rl there's cameras with motion detectors that record faces, masks are really not a bad thing nowa days. Bot protection. Thought criminal, thought criminal. 

Make a gdpr request for that data to be deleted

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I don't think most good actor trackers care whether it's a questionable place or not.  Most good actor trackers simply want to know the 'most popular places'.  

But, when it comes down to tracking, stalking, harassing by bad actor bots, all it is is trouble at the least and blackmail at the worst.   Certainly there could be something in the TOS to prevent this latter part because it's stalking and stalking is illegal to my knowledge, so is blackmail.

Oh, and to make it all worse, I know there is some kind of new "tos" but I forgot what's it's called so I don't know how to find that.  

A new TOS For SL?  I don't believe we've had a new one in a little bit.. There is a new update in the official viewer. But not any update for the TOS.. Not unless it came in the last few hours..

I think the last one was maybe over the summer or last spring.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

56 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

A new TOS For SL?  I don't believe we've had a new one in a little bit.. There is a new update in the official viewer. But not any update for the TOS.. Not unless it came in the last few hours..

I think the last one was maybe over the summer or last spring.

 

Any new TOS needs a CAPCHA so that AI's will need to hire humans for that part of the signup. (I apologize if you are visually impaired and this change would impact you.)

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Any new TOS needs a CAPCHA so that AI's will need to hire humans for that part of the signup. (I apologize if you are visually impaired and this change would impact you.)

The only time my vision bothers me is when the screens are really bright on the monitor, then things go blurry.. Otherwise I'm fine.

I'm fine with the TOS we have now.. also, don't you have to scroll down to the bottom of the tOS before it will give you the agree button? Do bots scroll that I wonder.. hehehe

 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Do bots scroll that I wonder.. hehehe

Yes, they can do most things.

[Phil Deakins]

I'm quite amazed at how much discussion there is about privacy in this thread. If I put something into the public domain, it's public, not private. My profile is public, and available to anyone in the world. If I state things about me in my profile, I have no expectation of it being private, or kept within SL, or anything like that. I have made it public information. If I display my own artwork or poetry that I write in my profile, as someone mentioned, I put it into the public domain. It's my own doing. Nobody else has any responsibility to prevent the wider world from seeing it.

I recently said something in another thread that was about something different, but it applies equally here. If there's something you don't like in SL, simply stop doing it. Don't put things in your profile that you don't want the world to see.

I can understand that people don't like bot avatars turning up on their land, but the discussions about privacy are totally misplaced, imo.

[Innula Zenovka]

11 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..personally, I've not needed to use that function. And I also started in 2007.

Depends what you're scripting, I guess.  It's very useful if you're trying to keep track of, and coordinate, several mobile objects on a region, and it solves no end of problems if you're trying to handle (and animate) several avatars sitting on the same linkset.

It also gives you access to a flag I find incredibly useful -- OBJECT_CREATION_TIME, which returns the time the original mesh of an object was uploaded or, if it's a regular prim, the time the original prim of which the item is a copy was rezzed.   This is as unique as a UUID and enables you to know for sure what an item is, regardless of what it's called, and also to detect whether it's a genuine item you've made or a copy someone else has made.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Innula Zenovka

[Jennifer Boyle]

 

10 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

For private use to solely and only for one's self to view, yes, but that's not what these bots were doing.  They published them.  

 

Wrong! In the US you have a right to photograph anything you can see from a place where you have a right to be and to publish it. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

and it solves no end of problems if you're trying to handle (and animate) several avatars sitting on the same linkset.

Then I could have definitely used it for when I created a thing everyone else created too: the avatar couples' animation "vehicle".  🙂 Don't think I worked on that since about 2010 though.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

 

Wrong! In the US you have a right to photograph anything you can see from a place where you have a right to be and to publish it. 

But if you are in a "business" with an "expectation of privacy" and plan to publish pictures / information, you need to let users / patrons know.  (Not to argue, just pointing it out.)

[Innula Zenovka]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Then I could have definitely used it for when I created a thing everyone else created too: the avatar couples' animation "vehicle".  🙂 Don't think I worked on that since about 2010 though.

I don't think the seated avatar flags were around in 2010.   The lab keep adding flags to it, though, it's really worth keeping an eye on to see what you can read with it.   I find it I use it all the time, for lots of different purposes.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But if you are in a "business" with an "expectation of privacy" and plan to publish pictures / information, you need to let users / patrons know.  (Not to argue, just pointing it out.)

There is no expectation of privacy in SL but that's an entire other conversation.

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is no expectation of privacy in SL but that's an entire other conversation.

It would be really, really smart at this point if Linden Lab would put that in the Terms of Service (assuming it is not already).

Merely having that statement in the TOS would put many "whatabout" (and even "whutaboot") conversations to rest.

[Rowan Amore]

29 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It would be really, really smart at this point if Linden Lab would put that in the Terms of Service (assuming it is not already).

Merely having that statement in the TOS would put many "whatabout" (and even "whutaboot") conversations to rest.

It's already there in the Privacy Policy...

Information You Provide when Using our Services. Please note that our Services may offer chat functions (either one-to-one or within a limited group) or other forms of communication services (such as real time voice communication either one-to-one or within a limited group), forums, community environments (including multiplayer gameplay) or other tools that are either restricted to other account holders or Services users or that do not have a restricted audience and can be accessible by anyone. Any information, content or communications, including personal information, you provide when you use any of these features will be available to the recipients (dependent on the nature of the tool) and may be publicly posted and otherwise disclosed without limitation as to its use by us or by a third party.  

While we endeavour at all times to protect the privacy of our users and to ensure no harm is caused through our Services, given the nature of the tools, we have no obligation to keep private any information you made available to other users or the public using these functions. To request removal of your personal information that you have posted via such a tool, please see the “Your Controls, Rights and Choices” section below.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's already there in the Privacy Policy...

Information You Provide when Using our Services. Please note that our Services may offer chat functions (either one-to-one or within a limited group) or other forms of communication services (such as real time voice communication either one-to-one or within a limited group), forums, community environments (including multiplayer gameplay) or other tools that are either restricted to other account holders or Services users or that do not have a restricted audience and can be accessible by anyone. Any information, content or communications, including personal information, you provide when you use any of these features will be available to the recipients (dependent on the nature of the tool) and may be publicly posted and otherwise disclosed without limitation as to its use by us or by a third party.  

While we endeavour at all times to protect the privacy of our users and to ensure no harm is caused through our Services, given the nature of the tools, we have no obligation to keep private any information you made available to other users or the public using these functions. To request removal of your personal information that you have posted via such a tool, please see the “Your Controls, Rights and Choices” section below.

Hmm...not sure what all the fuss is about, then. 

Maybe reading and / or comprehension issues..

[Caeruleiae]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hmm...not sure what all the fuss is about, then. 

Maybe reading and / or comprehension issues..

This thread-like much of the internet-has only proven that people fail to read tos and other such things more often than they actually succeed.  I already knew that of course-I see it constantly and have to deal with people who either didn't read or didn't fully understand something. It probably shouldn't surprise me-but yet it still does all the time. My personal experience is that it's always been a generational thing. It's rarely ever people around my own age that have trouble reading through or understanding the tos and such. But that's just anecdotal-possibly directed related to my job and interactions with people where IT is concerned-and not necessarily evident of a more widespread issue outside of that. People-in general-probably more often than not don't fully read through things regardless of age. 

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hmm...not sure what all the fuss is about, then. 

Maybe reading and / or comprehension issues..

The new policy does address transferring of date outside of SL but still leaves it up to the collector or resident to consult someone as to their rights in specific countries.  They also say they will act "at their discretion" on any claims of data being posted outside SL.

Doesn't really address the actual collection of that data except to say scripted agents cannot circumvent privacy controls...

Privacy Preference Integrity

Second Life provides a set of privacy controls, such as limiting who can communicate with a Resident, who can see another Resident’s online status, who can discover their location within Second Life, and whether profiles are published on publicly visible web pages. Scripted Agents may not circumvent these privacy controls.

[Love Zhaoying]

40 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The new policy does address transferring of date outside of SL but still leaves it up to the collector or resident to consult someone as to their rights in specific countries.  They also say they will act "at their discretion" on any claims of data being posted outside SL.

Doesn't really address the actual collection of that data except to say scripted agents cannot circumvent privacy controls...

Privacy Preference Integrity

Second Life provides a set of privacy controls, such as limiting who can communicate with a Resident, who can see another Resident’s online status, who can discover their location within Second Life, and whether profiles are published on publicly visible web pages. Scripted Agents may not circumvent these privacy controls.

Ok, so the discussion has some merit!