"Opting out" seems to be a moot point.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I hear the "It's all public information" thing a lot in response to the ways in which our profiles are exposed on the web through LL's web pages and search, as well as other sites.

Putting aside the fact that "public" shouldn't mean "I found it by using this cool script, or engaging in the following unusual contortions that the normal person wouldn't think of doing," there are problems with this argument. I want to add a bit of nuance to the discussion about what LL itself has left exposed by exploring one of those.

We all are multifaceted in our relationships with people and communities in our RL. We don't present the same sides of our self at work as we do at home, with friends or family, that we do with strangers. We all have different "public" faces we wear, depending upon context.

And this is very true online as well. Most of us, even if we are not regular users of social media, have different online profiles. Your SL profile is likely not the same as your Facebook or Twitter one. You wouldn't use your Instagram profile for your LinkedIn account, and you certainly wouldn't use your Tinder profile for that.

Our SL profiles are similarly determined by context. Indeed, they are designed to be employed within SL -- that's their function and point. That's why there are separate tabs for "2nd" and "1st" lives. They are written for use within SL. Show it to a close family member and there's a good likelihood that they wouldn't recognize you in it, because it's likely very very different from the "you" that they see.

And within SL itself, we probably relate to very specific communities -- very particular and specific "publics." The profile of someone who is here primarily for RP likely reflects that, in their Picks or even their bio. Similarly, people who are here for sex, or D/s and BDSM, will have profiles that are customized to those particular communities. I don't do RP or BDSM: you won't find my RP preferences, or my "limits" in my profile because those are not "publics" with whom I engage very much. You will find my political affiliations -- because those are relevant to my activities and communities here.

So, we find ourselves in a position of realizing that our SL-specific "public information" is appearing online, available to a much broader range of people, than we maybe understood. And the publication of that "public information" to a different public than that for which it was written decontextualizes it radically.

Say you are sub, and your profile reads somewhere "'No' means harder!" Or a Dom, and yours includes something like "There is no woman I can't break" (that's an actual example I saw recently, btw). In the context of the BDSM or D/s communities for whom this was written, that information makes complete sense, and is likely to be understood as representing something about the nature of the kind of BDSM scene or RP that interests you. Read without that context, on the open web by someone not involved in those communities, with little understanding of BDSM or D/s, or of SL, they are going to sound utterly appalling.

Now, you could follow LL's advice, and remove information that you don't want widely public because it will be misunderstood, but that would entirely undercut a major point of the SL profiles, which is to help us, SL residents, connect with others who have similar interests.

So, we need to stop thinking about the word "public" as though it were singular and uncomplicated. What is "public" in SL no more belongs on the open web than does your Tinder profile, which is also in some sense "public" and certainly easily attainable. (I not infrequently see screenshots of the latter posted on Twitter.)

And one of the positive spinoffs of recent events may actually be that we, and LL, are suddenly and dramatically being reminded of that. I very much hope that LL is giving thought to closing what seem to be some pretty major leaks in our SL privacy.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Missing word

[Scylla Rhiadra]

29 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's all true BUT...they'd still have to already know your name to even bother searching it on that site or anywhere on the internet.  Chances are, if they already know your name, they already have an account and can see ALL that info inworld.  

That is true, but many of us, including myself, use our SL account names on other platforms, including most obviously Twitter, Facebook, Flickr, Discord, and (now) Mastodon.

I am followed on all of those platforms (except Mastodon which I haven't yet set up) by people who are not in SL. They know my SL name.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Forgot Discord!

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, we find ourselves in a position of realizing that our SL-specific "public information" is appearing online, available to a much broader range of people, than we maybe understood. And the publication of that "public information" to a different public than that for which it was written decontextualizes it radically.

Say you are sub, and your profile reads somewhere "'No' means harder!" Or a Dom, and yours includes something like "There is no woman I can't break" (that's an actual example I saw recently, btw). In the context of the BDSM or D/s communities for whom this was written, that information makes complete sense, and is likely to be understood as representing something about the nature of the kind of BDSM scene or RP that interests you. Read without that context, on the open web by someone not involved in those communities, with little understanding of BDSM or D/s, or of SL, they are going to sound utterly appalling.

This is a good argument. 

Implied: The "actual Public" can also completely miss the point that anything from an SL profile indicates a "Role-Play" persona, and NOT your "Real Life" activities, etc.

[Prokofy Neva]

It isn't really about "privacy" or "balancing initiative with privacy." Those who keep lecturing us about that are deliberately missing the point.

It's about a third party aggregating, amplifying, and inevitably manipulating user data, and thereby gaining an upper hand, either in the ordinary economy of land and creations, or the attention economy and economy of influence of policy. When any company throws the Lindens and gets what they want, it's of concern to all of us, even if the Lindens think they get something out of it.

It's always helpful to remember we live in a product, not a world.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Those who keep lecturing us about that are deliberately missing the point.

People who have a different viewpoint than yours aren't deliberately doing so. They may be "merely incorrect".

[Laetizia Coronet]

40 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Now, you could follow LL's advice, and remove information that you don't want widely public because it will be misunderstood, but that would entirely undercut a major point of the SL profiles, which is to help us, SL residents, connect with others who have similar interests.

You have to wonder sometimes how well they understand their own product.

[Ceka Cianci]

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I hear the "It's all public information" thing a lot in response to the ways in which our profiles are exposed on the web through LL's web pages and search, as well as other sites.

Putting aside the fact that "public" shouldn't mean "I found it by using this cool script, or engaging in the following unusual contortions that the normal person wouldn't think of doing," there are problems with this argument. I want to add a bit of nuance to the discussion about what LL itself has left exposed by exploring one of those.

We all are multifaceted in our relationships with people and communities in our RL. We don't present the same sides of our self at work as we do at home, with friends or family, that we do with strangers. We all have different "public" faces we wear, depending upon context.

And this is very true online as well. Most of us, even if we are not regular users of social media, have different online profiles. Your SL profile is likely not the same as your Facebook or Twitter one. You wouldn't use your Instagram profile for your LinkedIn account, and you certainly wouldn't use your Tinder profile for that.

Our SL profiles are similarly determined by context. Indeed, they are designed to be employed within SL -- that's their function and point. That's why there are separate tabs for "2nd" and "1st" lives. They are written for use within SL. Show it to a close family member and there's a good likelihood that they wouldn't recognize you in it, because it's likely very very different from the "you" that they see.

And within SL itself, we probably relate to very specific communities -- very particular and specific "publics." The profile of someone who is here primarily for RP likely reflects that, in their Picks or even their bio. Similarly, people who are here for sex, or D/s and BDSM, will have profiles that are customized to those particular communities. I don't do RP or BDSM: you won't find my RP preferences, or my "limits" in my profile because those are not "publics" with whom I engage very much. You will find my political affiliations -- because those are relevant to my activities and communities here.

So, we find ourselves in a position of realizing that our SL-specific "public information" is appearing online, available to a much broader range of people, than we maybe understood. And the publication of that "public information" to a different public than that for which it was written decontextualizes it radically.

Say you are sub, and your profile reads somewhere "'No' means harder!" Or a Dom, and yours includes something like "There is no woman I can't break" (that's an actual example I saw recently, btw). In the context of the BDSM or D/s communities for whom this was written, that information makes complete sense, and is likely to be understood as representing something about the nature of the kind of BDSM scene or RP that interests you. Read without that context, on the open web by someone not involved in those communities, with little understanding of BDSM or D/s, or of SL, they are going to sound utterly appalling.

Now, you could follow LL's advice, and remove information that you don't want widely public because it will be misunderstood, but that would entirely undercut a major point of the SL profiles, which is to help us, SL residents, connect with others who have similar interests.

So, we need to stop thinking about the word "public" as though it were singular and uncomplicated. What is "public" in SL no more belongs on the open web than does your Tinder profile, which is also in some sense "public" and certainly easily attainable. (I not infrequently see screenshots of the latter posted on Twitter.)

And one of the positive spinoffs of recent events may actually be that we, and LL, are suddenly and dramatically being reminded of that. I very much hope that LL is giving thought to closing what seem to be some pretty major leaks in our SL privacy.

Myself, I'm not worried about what's on my profile or getting put out on the web.. I use the same name everywhere I go.. This wasn't the first world and wasn't the last that it's been put in...

The thing that really got to me was, when I think of people that show up thinking they are in some world separated from the internet..

You get an online profile that is full on that you have to go in and opt out of rather than opt into, to securing that..

You start with a viewer that has everything full on by default, like media and media on a prim and other insecure things..

It's easy for people to stick out their chest and say everyone should have known by now.. But not everyone has been around for years.. Some people don't even know there is a forum or an online profile or that they are getting put outside this world..

Those things got inched in over time and users weren't  getting some, extra extra read all about it, newspaper delivered to them or something to catch their attention.. Most times that news is stuck on a blog that a lot of users  don't realize even exists..

So ya, it's really easy saying everyone should have known by now.. It's pretty silly looking when  they ignore that the time line didn't start or end  when they got here.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

45 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

People who have a different viewpoint than yours aren't deliberately doing so. They may be "merely incorrect".

Or just not thinking it through from the perspective of others who include allusions to a racier virtual lifestyle in their profiles then just being a photographer/fashionesta/blogger/creator etc.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That is true, but many of us, including myself, use our SL account names on other platforms, including most obviously Twitter, Facebook, Flickr, Discord, and (now) Mastodon.

I am followed on all of those platforms (except Mastodon which I haven't yet set up) by people who are not in SL. They know my SL name.

You do realise that Facebook expressly prohibits false accounts? You can not make an account for your SL av. If it gets caught or reported they will delete it. 

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Now, you could follow LL's advice, and remove information that you don't want widely public because it will be misunderstood, but that would entirely undercut a major point of the SL profiles, which is to help us, SL residents, connect with others who have similar interests.

Anyone in SL should remove RL personally identifying information from their profiles. Thats just common sense. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You do realise that Facebook expressly prohibits false accounts? You can not make an account for your SL av. If it gets caught or reported they will delete it.

I am well aware of it.

There are still thousands of explicitly SL avatar accounts on FB.

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Anyone in SL should remove RL personally identifying information from their profiles. Thats just common sense.

Agreed. But I am not talking about RL personally identifying information.

[Lyric Demina]

3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Myself, I'm not worried about what's on my profile or getting put out on the web.. I use the same name everywhere I go.. This wasn't the first world and wasn't the last that it's been put in...

The thing that really got to me was, when I think of people that show up thinking they are in some world separated from the internet..

You get an online profile that is full on that you have to go in and opt out of rather than opt into, to securing that..

You start with a viewer that has everything full on by default, like media and media on a prim and other insecure things..

It's easy for people to stick out their chest and say everyone should have known by now.. But not everyone has been around for years.. Some people don't even know there is a forum or an online profile or that they are getting put outside this world..

Those things got inched in over time and users weren't  getting some, extra extra read all about it, newspaper delivered to them or something to catch their attention.. Most times that news is stuck on a blog that a lot of users  don't realize even exists..

So ya, it's really easy saying everyone should have known by now.. It's pretty silly looking when  they ignore that the time line didn't start or end  when they got here.

 

Exactly.  Which speaks to the OP's "moot point" point; first it's a moot point to have opted-out, and second it was a moot point on the whole seeing as avatar-privacy-tools we had thought we were using responsibly were entirely ineffectual.  It was shocking, for a lot of people, in fact.  We're not (as Scylla perfectly captured above) even talking about typist-personal private information -- we're talking about avatars' access to avatars.  There are Residents who simply do not want to be accessible by anyone outside their trusted circle (i.e. perhaps, for example, they have been stalked by other Residents in the past, and perhaps they have invested too much into their account to simply 'switch to a new account'; that is only one example of the need for avatar-privacy).  Essentially, Second Life USED TO have the ability to hide one's avatar from the rest of the world, for reasons they felt were strong enough to implement -- and without alerting the Residents*, Second Life no longer does.  Avatar-privacy is a moot point now and it is infuriating. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Lyric Demina
*without alerting the Residents I think; I was certainly never made aware.

[Coffee Pancake]

Everyone needs to remember that depreciated doesn’t mean deleted. 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Everyone needs to remember that depreciated doesn’t mean deleted. 

Do you mean "deprecated"?

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Everyone needs to remember that depreciated doesn’t mean deleted. 

Depreciation is loss/reduction of value. It doesn't refer to anything being eliminated.

[Coffee Pancake]

You all know what I mean, autocarrot on my phone has it's own ideas, take it up with that.

[KrystalKandy]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

You all know what I mean, autocarrot on my phone has it's own ideas, take it up with that.

You just have to love a good autocarrot! 😆