"Opting out" seems to be a moot point.

[KrystalKandy]

I am not posting this to ruffle any feathers. But I am genuinely wondering how this is any different from what they were doing before, in regards to their website having an avatar search option. 

I posted this comment/reply to a "sl update" youtube video that came out earlier about the other website having removed the "search for avatar" option.

"They've now directly linked the second life search page to their website. And you do not need to log in with your account to use it and do a search. I tested it on my own avatar name after logging completely out of the page. So even if you opted out via the IM option. They have still made it possible for non sl residents to search and find your profile without needing an account of their own. Essentially, nothing has changed. "

For some context here. When you go to secondlife.com you have zero access to the search page if you do not log in.Nothing on the login page even suggests there is a search option available.  But by going to the other website, you have a direct loophole to still access all the same info, minus your payment info status. 

Again, I am truly not here to relight any fires. But I am failing to understand why they are so dead set on making sure avatar info is accessible outside of the realm of the second life website. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by KrystalKandy
spelling error

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, KrystalKandy said:

I am not posting this to ruffle any feathers. But I am genuinely wondering how this is any different from what they were doing before, in regards to their website having an avatar search option.

[Content redacted by moi]

To keep it simple:

-- Yes, you are correct: "opting out" is now essentially meaningless. Anyone can be found through the SL web search that has replaced what they had before.

-- However, the amount and type of information available through the LL search is much more limited than was the case before. Our information is now not nearly so exposed to anyone who chooses to look than it was.

There will undoubtedly be further developments to come:

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Removing unnecessary stuff

[Ceka Cianci]

From what I seen from just checking, it takes time after you opt out..

I logged out and then did a search of your profile and it did show up.. But also did a search of Scylla's because i know she opted out awhile back..

Her profile was not accessible and shows a big red circle with a line through it saying they had opted out and  the profile can't be accessed..

I don't know how long they take to finally get someone opted out.. But if you had just did it not long ago, they may still be getting to it..

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Her profile was not accessible and shows a big red circle with a line through it saying they had opted out and  the profile can't be accessed.

Actually, that is my profile now!

[Content redacted by moi]

Edited February 7, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Removing unnecessary stuff

[Ceka Cianci]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Actually, that is my profile now!

Sorry, I did sort of bury the lede: "Opting out" of the other means nothing now: everyone is available through the SL web search, regardless of whether you opted out or not.

So in reality, LL had already put us out there for all to see, long before BB did?

Why the hell would they put our in world search open  to the rest of the internet? That bothers me a hell of a lot more than BB does, to say the truth..

I'm really getting leery of this place and world..🤬

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Istelathis]

I just checked in a browser I have not logged into SL with, at least not that I recall.  It does appear that your "About" or Biography does display, under the results and can be expanded to be read, but clicking "more info" will bring me to your profile page and no such information is displayed.  I'm not sure if this is something we can disable through our privacy settings or not, but definitely on LLs side of things.

https://search.secondlife.com/ is the default search of second life, and it shows the same thing in the browser when I search for your name while logged out.  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

So in reality, LL had already put us out there for all to see, long before BB did?

Why the hell would they put our in world search open  to the rest of the internet? That bothers me a hell of a lot more than BB does, to say the truth..

I'm really getting leery of this place and world..

[Content redacted by moi]

Edited February 7, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Removing unnecessary stuff

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I can't find an easy way to access the LL web search through LL's web site: I was only able to find it using Google, so its visibility isn't high.

And, again, important differences between what LL enables, and what the other one does: you can find Moderate and Adult info through the other.

On the other hand, it looks to me as though they've limited the amount of information available through "the other site." Either that, or removing yourself from web search has an impact on what they will show. I'm not sure which yet.

All I had to do was type in second life search and there it was.. So now we're pretty much out on the internet now..

Well  this changes a lot of my future here, because it kind of felt like an escape from out there, but they went and put it there..

Oh well, I guess I was a fool for believing this place was some kind of different.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

All I had to do was type in second life search and there it was.. So now we're pretty much out on the internet now..

Well  this changes a lot of my future here, because it kind of felt like an escape from out there, but they went and put it there..

Oh well, I guess I was a fool for believing this place was some kind of different.

I get that, although the amount I was able to see about you without logging in was pretty scant.

[Content redacted by moi]

Edited February 7, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Removing unnecessary stuff

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I get that, although the amount I was able to see about you without logging in was pretty scant.

One correction: You can no longer search for Moderate or Adult using "the other web site." I'm almost certain that's a change from how it was, although I may be wrong. In any case, it's another important limitation.

They won't find anything at all now..

They just took every bit of wind out of my sail for this place now.. I'm not getting skunked into some social network or whatever their long game is, just inching us out there slow and easy..

No thanks.

 

[Istelathis]

It may have been this way for a while, I'm not sure if previous results would show our biography or no.  It may have just been oversight by LL, and not noticed or brought to attention because privacy just has not been taken very seriously by many people until they saw how easily it could be scraped and made aware of how it could be used.  I don't think there is any intention on LL's part to expose our information, I question if even "they who shall not be named" acted with malicious intent when they so readily offered their service for free. One thing is for certain, we can be thankful toward them in that people are starting to be more aware of privacy concerns, which I hope will make SL more secure in the future.

It is a good find though, either there is some privacy setting we are not aware of or LL will likely find a way to fix it.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Istelathis
Have to be careful here, very touchy topic.

[animats]

You can look up SL users at https://search.secondlife.com.

What you get depends on whether or not you're logged in.

Logged in, I get nothing.

 

Logged out, in private browsing, I get my profile.

That seems backwards.

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

It may have been this way for a while, I'm not sure if previous results would show our biography or no.  It may have just been oversight by LL, and not noticed or brought to attention because privacy just has not been taken very seriously by many people until they saw how easily it could be scraped and made aware of how it could be used.  I don't think there is any intention on LL's part to expose our information, I question if even BB acted with malicious intent when they so readily offered their service for free. One thing is for certain, we can be thankful toward them in that people are starting to be more aware of privacy concerns, which I hope will make SL more secure in the future.

It is a good find though, either there is some privacy setting we are not aware of or LL will likely find a way to fix it.

I agree pretty much entirely with all of this. I'm not willing to impute malice where there is no evidence of it. And maybe it will be a good thing if the policy changes that we are being (sort of) promised tighten things up a bit.

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

It may have been this way for a while, I'm not sure if previous results would show our biography or no.  It may have just been oversight by LL, and not noticed or brought to attention because privacy just has not been taken very seriously by many people until they saw how easily it could be scraped and made aware of how it could be used.  I don't think there is any intention on LL's part to expose our information, I question if even "they who shall not be named" acted with malicious intent when they so readily offered their service for free. One thing is for certain, we can be thankful toward them in that people are starting to be more aware of privacy concerns, which I hope will make SL more secure in the future.

It is a good find though, either there is some privacy setting we are not aware of or LL will likely find a way to fix it.

Myself, I'm not worried about my privacy because I have things pretty tightened up..

What really bothers me is, why is our in world search outside of the grid? They had to do the online profiles for some reason years ago, trying to get some sort of social network going back  then.. Now the search engine is sitting outside of the world.. I wonder how many people know that in world?

I didn't have to log in to read what was on anyone's profile.. I'm sure a lot of people think that stuff is just contained in world.. but I guess public does mean public now..

The way some were saying, it's not really public if it's in world.. I'm guessing they didn't know they were already out there either actually in the public.

Here we had all these threads on some website putting our profiles out there for all to see, when LL had them out there long before we ever heard of that site..  I didn't hear anyone saying anything about that in any of those threads.. I didn't hear one linden saying anything about  those already begin out there either..

That is what bothers me , right up the spine.

[KrystalKandy]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

From what I seen from just checking, it takes time after you opt out..

I logged out and then did a search of your profile and it did show up.. But also did a search of Scylla's because i know she opted out awhile back..

Her profile was not accessible and shows a big red circle with a line through it saying they had opted out and  the profile can't be accessed..

I don't know how long they take to finally get someone opted out.. But if you had just did it not long ago, they may still be getting to it..

I opted out days ago. And when I checked it on that website, it was not showing up. I am more referring to the new link/option to search. 

I appreciate the comment though

[Ceka Cianci]

9 minutes ago, KrystalKandy said:

I opted out days ago. And when I checked it on that website, it was not showing up. I am more referring to the new link/option to search. 

I appreciate the comment though

I didn't realize Scylla did that to her profile.. It looked like some sort of  thing a website might do.. hehehe

I just got finished clearing mine out. one good thing I guess is, if you want to clear  your profile, it clears out a lot quicker than when it was on the web site..

Sure does suck though, that we thought we were in there, when we ended up getting thrown out on the street by the gate keeper.

I have a feeling I'll be opting out on more than some web site.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[KrystalKandy]

My intention was not to cause any type of witch hunt towards LL whatsoever. I was just a bit stunned that the website, after knowing that people were really bothered by the original avatar button on there, went another route to make sure info - even some, was still attainable directly through them. 

If the main goal is to help people connect by seeing where avi's are gathered, which is what they have said is the purpose of why they collect info and travel the grid in the first place. Then why so much effort to make sure that specific portion remains, in another form. 

I guess personally, it kind of felt like .. "Ok well if we can't display it this way, then let's display it that way". Not to put words into anyone's mouth here but that is how it comes across. Why even bother to opt out if it's all out there regardless. 

Anyhoo that is my ramble lol sorry folks. 

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, KrystalKandy said:

My intention was not to cause any type of witch hunt towards LL whatsoever. I was just a bit stunned that the website, after knowing that people were really bothered by the original avatar button on there, went another route to make sure info - even some, was still attainable directly through them. 

If the main goal is to help people connect by seeing where avi's are gathered, which is what they have said is the purpose of why they collect info and travel the grid in the first place. Then why so much effort to make sure that specific portion remains, in another form. 

I guess personally, it kind of felt like .. "Ok well if we can't display it this way, then let's display it that way". Not to put words into anyone's mouth here but that is how it comes across. Why even bother to opt out if it's all out there regardless. 

Anyhoo that is my ramble lol sorry folks. 

You didn't cause that for me.. It just kind of hit me like dots connecting over time is all..  I actually feel much more enlightened now.

You didn't do a thing wrong..

 

[belindacarson]

Personally I don't see the issue with profiles being publically viewable.  Unless you're stupid enough to put RL info in your profile, what's the problem? Even some of the Lindens have stated it's not information that can identify you 🙄

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I agree pretty much entirely with all of this. I'm not willing to impute malice where there is no evidence of it. And maybe it will be a good thing if the policy changes that we are being (sort of) promised tighten things up a bit.

What kind of stuff is being redacted from these posts?! 

/me opts in to find out

[Sukubia Scarmon]

IT's a matter of principle for me. I dislike being automatically opt-in out of the blue, and moreso when it's by a third party who seems to think they should be the ones to get to decided what happens with my information. As their website claims, they made previously obscured information available - I'd think if it was intended to be on display, it would not have been obscured in the first place. I do not understand why it'S important to know how much CC's VERY roughly make on marketplace, other than to stir up drama. 

[Love Zhaoying]

I think we'll find that LL wasn't really aware of this "opt out" but "still searchable" bug/"loophole". Not with all the "privacy" talk recently and official posts about the subject (which someone kindly posted above).

 

[Randy Pole]

The search https://search.secondlife.com/ has been on the interweb for years - accessible to anyone. However as many have said the amount of information displayed if you are not logged in to a Second Life account is very limited. If people are really that concerned about this information (which has been available to the public for years) being displayed then they should use the option to hide their profile from searches within the viewer options - that of course comes with a major downside insofar as you are hidden from all SL searches so not ideal for anyone running a business or wanting to be sociable.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Randy Pole

[KrystalKandy]

12 hours ago, Randy Pole said:

The search https://search.secondlife.com/ has been on the interweb for years - accessible to anyone. However as many have said the amount of information displayed if you are not logged in to a Second Life account is very limited. If people are really that concerned about this information (which has been available to the public for years) being displayed then they should use the option to hide their profile from searches within the viewer options - that of course comes with a major downside insofar as you are hidden from all SL searches so not ideal for anyone running a business or wanting to be sociable.

I see your point in regards to profiles being available. But I think the general concensus is that they would be available to fellow residents who "log in" to obtain said information/do searches etc. As I mentioned in my first post. What actually concerned me and the reason for my post in the first place. Was the offer from them, after a lot of public uproar, to opt out completely from being in their search database. If they were willing to comply with that then what is the point of providing a loophole that negates the very thing you chose to "opt out" from?

Call me paranoid but the difference here is. I agreed to the terms of second life and their services when I signed up. I never agreed to some third party website deciding for me, what they can display about me.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by KrystalKandy

[Richardus Raymaker]

Mabye stupid question. But how and where do you opt out ? I think LL never told us that.