Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: The new "Image" button that is shown when you select inventory items isn't there for you? I wasn't aware you could pick images from inventory! That's good to know (like I hadn't tried using "camera", only "upload"). Ummmmmm....lemme look... Nope. Now, I do need to update FS, so maybe that's why, but I don't think I'm that far behind. If it's new in 6.6.17, then yeah, I don't have it (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Peeve: I'm oblivious enough to say, "maybe the delay was zero before and 2 seconds now". Since the general appearance is there are not many Official viewer users on the Forum, it would explain why I don't recall seeing complaints about any delay. Or it could be that your inventory is a lot bigger than mine, bigger inventory => bigger delay. I'm comparing to the non-photo preview FS as well which doesn't have this delay. I have both installed. Firestorm support acknowledged to me that they were aware of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: Hard agree. Had you not mentioned it just now, I seriously would've continued not remembering the feature existed. I remember vague mention of it from a few months ago, but had no idea it was actually implemented into Firestorm. As far as I've seen, there's no indication in my inventory that it's even a thing I can do (unless it's in the right-click menu, which I kind of half pay attention to since navigating that is all muscle memory by now lol). If it's mentioned in the image capture/screenshot region, I wouldn't have seen it there either as I do my photography in Black Dragon and so so so rarely ever open the screenshot menu in FS. *facepalm* Yes, it's in the right click menu...Image which opens up the new floater where you'll see.the camera icon at the bottom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Yes, it's in the right click menu...Image which opens up the new floater where you'll see.the camera icon at the bottom. I don't see it, which means I proooobably need to update. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Well, there you go then. Since I don't see Zalificents solution happening any time soon (and she readily admits so themselves) so it doesn't seem like a very well thought out solution to me. --- Here's what I'd do, if I were to engineer a solution into SecondLife with the aim to add a simpler way to shop/demo items whilst keeping existing method possible. Since clothes shopping is the most common kind of shopping, I'd start with tackling clothes shopping first. But a solution would later need to be created for rezzables. Viewer Managed Marketplace Changes 'Demo item' will become an object property that creators can set on individual objects in listings from their viewer managed marketplace. Marketplace Changes If a listing contains 1 or more 'demo items' then the results page will contain a new 'demo' button. Depending on the number of demo items in the listing, one of two things will happen:- One demo object - It just attaches to your avatar in-world, just like that. Two or more - Presents you with a menu to choose which demo objects to attach. Viewer Changes? Later down the line I think it would be really great if we could shop from our viewer, using native viewer UI. This gets rid of the 'logging in twice' chore, where you have to log in once to viewer, and once to website. It also means you can multi-task eg by shopping and talking to a friend at the same time. It's also a lot easier to flick through say shoes if say we could just have a row along the bottom of the screen we can be scrolling through and trying on. Such a UI would obviously take a lot of consideration to design but I think it would ultimately be worth it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 23 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: I will say this about the preview. I heard about it and, once again, figured it out by myself. Honestly, the way LL explains things sometimes is like talking to outsourced tech support. If I can figure something out in SL, ANYONE can figure it out. Yeah, I didn't even bother looking for instructions: it's pretty intuitive. As opposed to PBR, upon which I have already spent literally dozens of hours, reading threads here, scouring LL's iffy documentation, consulting third-party web sites on the subject, and experimenting in-world. And I still don't have it all worked out. /me sighs 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yeah, I didn't even bother looking for instructions: it's pretty intuitive. As opposed to PBR, upon which I have already spent literally dozens of hours, reading threads here, scouring LL's iffy documentation, consulting third-party web sites on the subject, and experimenting in-world. And I still don't have it all worked out. /me sighs Well we must admit, at least we have a new lousy midday setting now. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 21 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Some year back, in another of these "Dumb SL down" threads, an idiot made a suggestion for "improving" the viewer. There suggestion had 3 "essential" elements. 1. Massively dumb down the viewer UI 2. Incorporate a "full featured 3D editor suite" into the viewer. 3. Make sure that the dumbed down UI with a full 3D editor, STILL LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE Viewer 1.23. Pick me for suggesting they incorporate some blender stuff to allow the in viewer creation of mesh items up to and including rigging. Still think it would be a good idea, At the time the excuse for not doing so was that it would make the viewer too big even though at the time it was a 25 MB download and all of blender about the same. Now we have viewers that are over 125 MB without it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Well we must admit, at least we have a new lousy midday setting now. Just like Real Life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Here's what I'd do Here we go... 3 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: 'Demo item' will become an object property Adding a new "object property" means reformatting the ENTIRE multi petabyte asset database. Not exactly an inconsequential change. Get it wrong, and NOBODY's inventory works. 800,000 users screaming in rage because a handful of people want ill-thought out change. 5 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: If a listing contains 1 or more 'demo items' then the results page will contain a new 'demo' button. Add in re-writing the MP code, and if that goes badly, the MP fails, and all those merchants start creaming about lost sales worth millions of US dollars. Joy! 8 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Later down the line I think it would be really great if we could shop from our viewer We already can. Next. 8 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: It also means you can multi-task eg by shopping and talking to a friend at the same time. We already can. Next! 9 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Such a UI would obviously take a lot of consideration to design but I think it would ultimately be worth it. Not from a revenue point of view. LL make money selling "land", if everything is sold via some "shopping popup", then nobody needs an inworld store, and the loss of all that land revenue will hurt LL, and hurt the private estate landlords, who may fold up due to lost revenue, and if they go, that REALLY hurts LL's pocket, AND means SL's grid SHRINKS, as places supported by stores, or renting from the defunct landlords, also close down. Congratulations, you're ill thought out scheme just destroyed LL's profit margin and caused them to close down SL. You just killed the grid. See what happens when instead of using ACTUAL thought, you just scream "SL must be an exact copy of IMVSpew!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: But apparently not IMVU, which is the platform you were using for inspiration: Blah, blah blah Try not to get hung up on Imvu Theresa, I only used it as a ready made example of how the shopping mode could be made much more efficient and thereby benefitting both residents and stores. Nothing to do with light or dark modes, That would be something the Lab would pat itself on the back for while they totally miss enhancing our inworld experience. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Pick me for suggesting they incorporate some blender stuff The idiot I referred to was somebody else entirely, and they made ALL 3 demands, at the same time. on another occasion they also demanded a stupid feature from the UI of a game that ridiculed for having the worst UI ever, because the "feature" looked "like it might be cool". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Here we go... Adding a new "object property" means reformatting the ENTIRE multi petabyte asset database. Not exactly an inconsequential change. Get it wrong, and NOBODY's inventory works. 800,000 users screaming in rage because a handful of people want ill-thought out change. Add in re-writing the MP code, and if that goes badly, the MP fails, and all those merchants start creaming about lost sales worth millions of US dollars. Joy! We already can. Next. We already can. Next! Not from a revenue point of view. LL make money selling "land", if everything is sold via some "shopping popup", then nobody needs an inworld store, and the loss of all that land revenue will hurt LL, and hurt the private estate landlords, who may fold up due to lost revenue, and if they go, that REALLY hurts LL's pocket, AND means SL's grid SHRINKS, as places supported by stores, or renting from the defunct landlords, also close down. Congratulations, you're ill thought out scheme just destroyed LL's profit margin and caused them to close down SL. You just killed the grid. See what happens when instead of using ACTUAL thought, you just scream "SL must be an exact copy of IMVSpew!" Lot of what if's, yeah but, and conjecture. Is that the best some can come up with? Look at what they had to do to bring in EEP and and Pbr. The sky didn't fall for those things even though they affected every region on the grid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: The idiot I referred to was somebody else entirely, and they made ALL 3 demands, at the same time. on another occasion they also demanded a stupid feature from the UI of a game that ridiculed for having the worst UI ever, because the "feature" looked "like it might be cool". Yes well you are taking an overblown example to make a weak argument for no progress whatsoever. Yay you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Adding a new "object property" means reformatting the ENTIRE multi petabyte asset database. Not exactly an inconsequential change. Get it wrong, and NOBODY's inventory works. 800,000 users screaming in rage because a handful of people want ill-thought out change. Tell me you don't know how bitfields work without telling me you don't know how bitfields work 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I think we're going to need a bigger boat. Wait, no. A new thread! I think we may need a new thread for all of this. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: Lot of what if's, yeah but, and conjecture. Is that the best some can come up with? Look at what they had to do to bring in EEP and and Pbr. The sky didn't fall for those things even though they affected every region on the grid. Bad choices for your examples. EEP's back end server support BROKE the sky for anyone NOT using the LL experimental beta viewer, for over a year and a half, before the official release, which was fubared beyond belief, and took another year and a half to sort of fix. And even after that, it left the default EEP for over 7500 regions looking like crap, with NO possibility of a fix, because "it would mean a staff member visiting each region and fixing it by hand", and that was too time consuming and expensive. And PBR, has so far, been a fustercluck coded hot mess, released a couple or three years TOO early, that's only currently inflicted on about 30% of the population, and makes most of SL either too bright or too dark, and ruins it's appearance, especially water, and the sky. The examples you chose, are perfect illustrations of why poorly thought out changes shouldn't just be rolled out regardless of the consequences. People KNEW that EEP was busted drek before the rollout, and were ignored, people KNEW that PBR was an unfinished hot mess before the rollout, and were ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said: I think we're going to need a bigger boat. Wait, no. A new thread! I think we may need a new thread for all of this. The peeves are strong with this lot though 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Most likely, we will see changes to our inventory management regardless due to the mobile viewer, a directory based user interface does not perform very well on mobile devices. This would be one of the reasons I would hazard a guess as to why you can not change outfits in the mobile viewer yet, because they are probably still working on it. What we may get is anyone's guess, but *if* such changes were made for the mobile viewer, I think they would likely also port those changes over to the official desktop viewer. I do hope, they leave us with our directory based interface as well, because I enjoy using it and I know a lot of people on the forums prefer it to a picture based interface. It is almost a given that to appeal to gen z and gen alpha, the directory based system is antiquated anyway, from several articles that I have read, a lot of them are unfamiliar with it and have grown in a world of icons when using computers. Put a lot of them in front of a directory based interface and they will be unfamiliar with it. If we were evil, and I know some of us are, we could make it all command line driven 😈 Anyway: Pet peeve of the day, I don't have one, I guess myself. I am going to regret involving myself with the topic, but find it interesting regardless. Please be gentle with me, mah legs hurt from going on a power walk. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Tell me you don't know how bitfields work without telling me you don't know how bitfields work Tell me you don't know that changing a record format by adding a new field, can require reformating all the data, by copying it into a new file, without telling me you know sod all about it. Change the structure of a record format, a "data structure" and you have to change everything that reads that record format, and if there isn't some suitable "unused space" in the format, add one, this is programming 101. You are assuming there's some byte in the record structure that's not being used, that you can grab a bit in for a boolean toggle. But since you don't work for LL as a server dev, you are just fishing. I at least considered the possibility that the idea might need a record format change that increases record length, and changes record data structure definitions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Adding a new "object property" means reformatting the ENTIRE multi petabyte asset database. Not exactly an inconsequential change. Get it wrong, and NOBODY's inventory works. 800,000 users screaming in rage because a handful of people want ill-thought out change. Add in re-writing the MP code, and if that goes badly, the MP fails, and all those merchants start creaming about lost sales worth millions of US dollars. Joy! Most of the changes I've described adding are not crazy changes for a software development team to make. I know, I've worked in the industry long enough. They have their own staging environment they can test the changes in, and previous software versions to roll back to. The last thing you want is engineers who haven't touched the code base in 5 years. They need continuous experience to be able to maintain SecondLife. The more they work on it, the less mistakes are made over time. Think of it like this. Most people forget how to speak the French they've learnt in high school, if they don't get to go out and practice speaking it in the real world. With that said, why don't you see if you can present a solution that doesn't involve changing the marketplace, and doesn't involve things that you readily admit would never change? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: 14 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Tell me Tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 11 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Bad choices for your examples. EEP's back end server support BROKE the sky for anyone NOT using the LL experimental beta viewer, for over a year and a half, before the official release, which was fubared beyond belief, and took another year and a half to sort of fix. And even after that, it left the default EEP for over 7500 regions looking like crap, with NO possibility of a fix, because "it would mean a staff member visiting each region and fixing it by hand", and that was too time consuming and expensive. And PBR, has so far, been a fustercluck coded hot mess, released a couple or three years TOO early, that's only currently inflicted on about 30% of the population, and makes most of SL either too bright or too dark, and ruins it's appearance, especially water, and the sky. The examples you chose, are perfect illustrations of why poorly thought out changes shouldn't just be rolled out regardless of the consequences. People KNEW that EEP was busted drek before the rollout, and were ignored, people KNEW that PBR was an unfinished hot mess before the rollout, and were ignored. Actually they are good examples in that it shows the Lab being perfectly willing to break compatibility as well as other things, so the excuse of backward compatibility is just a farce and excuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I think we're going to need a bigger boat. Wait, no. A new thread! I think we may need a new thread for all of this. My peeve would that by the time it is seen we need a new thread, the conversation is about over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 My latest peeve is that when two people go in for a cage match, one comes out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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