Belleza Announcing New Gen.X Body and Event

[PJBear Bitey]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:02 PM, Ceka Cianci said:

Holy crap! It's only a couple spots away from Curvy.. It's jumped like 100 wearers since I looked at it last week.. another 10 wearers and ya, it's probably gonna bump them..

Do you have your own system, or are you looking at something? You keep mentioning where bodies sit on a list.  Is the list viewable by others? Sounds like a neat list to have access.

[steeljane42]

8 hours ago, PJBear said:

Do you have your own system, or are you looking at something? You keep mentioning where bodies sit on a list.  Is the list viewable by others? Sounds like a neat list to have access.

It's Lucia Nightfire's system. You can check her profile to find a link to the up to date stats. I believe her forum signature also should have a link to it if you have those turned on.

On 12/15/2022 at 8:40 AM, Sissi Slacker said:

I don't want to sit here all smug and say "see I said it would fail". because I really liked Belleza in the past, and it's genuinely disappointing.

I didn't really like them (as a company/creators) in the past, but out of people I chat/interact with some did and when new bodies were announced even they weren't all excited about that. Most said the exactly same few things, which would be: "Another body that will get abandoned." ; "Another body that will take forever to get fixes and updates, like Freya." ; and "I'm happy with Legacy/Reborn now."

I said this before, but it's really not 2014-2016 anymore. Back then their bodies were among first ones on the market, and Freya was the only decent option for the more curvy/thick look for years (Slink HG was an option, too, kinda, but it has a rather specific shape). Even when they took forever to update hands to bento (which took over 1.5 years, compared to a few months for Slink's and Maitreya's updates) people still kept using it. Slink started to lose popularity around then as well, so it was either Maitreya or Freya for the most people who wanted new releases/clothing.

But then Legacy was released, which gets curvy enough if you want it to, unlike Maitreya which is just not a good option for the more thick looks due to how it starts to deform past certain amount of sliders. Kupra was the next one, and it did pull another chunk of Freya users, those who wanted way over the top thick look, which Legacy does worse then Freya.

And the final nail in the coffin - Reborn. It's in the middle between Legacy and Kupra thickness wise, it scales down and up well, it has so much addons to play with, it got a great creators support from the first months it was around (probably even more than Legacy has gotten on release, and there was a lot of support for it too), it is updated often with new features. It's even mod for those 5 forum people who care about the mod bodies. /s

And then comes the blast from the past, Belleza, with their 5.5k bodies that have absolutely nothing to offer aside of the "it's new" factor. Maybe they thought their old customer base will jump back just like that. But nope, they did not. Brand loyality is a thing sometimes, but nothing lasts forever, and the (active, so not those who wear freya bodies and catya heads still, most of those most likely can't be bothered to swap to anything else) customer base they've had was lost ages ago.

Gen X event was "okay" for a start, some usable stuff from good creators here and there, but it had to be even more next month, and even more later if they wanted to keep up. What happened instead? A few (original mesh) creators who were at the Gen X event announced as "partners" already dropped Gen x in their next releases. For examples - CX and AsteroidBox. The former made one item for their bodies that was on that event, the latter - three, but last few releases have no gen x sizes anymore as there's no point.

So given the current market, general mesh bodies oversaturation, and their reputation they did everything wrong. The price, the lack of discounts for the old bodies users, lack of PR, slow (who would have guessed /s ) updates/fixes again, two bodies instead of one for some unknown reason.

To get things going you gotta invest into the ecosystem first. For example - some last generations home consoles (for gaming) were sold at a loss at their release and for quite sometime later, means their manufacturing cost and expenses to get them to the customers were more than they were sold at. But growing a userbase is more important on the long run, so more games for those consoles would be sold, and eventually it all gets balanced and makes both, console's and games developing companies, profit.

So to end this wall of text, I do believe they are very much clueless, like you've said. And while they did try a bit more than Slink did with their C&C body, it was nowhere enough. That and the fact market is just not big enough for even one more popular body, even less for two. And aside of Kupra, which many creators did/do drop anyway, there's just nothing else to drop for the most when it comes to rigging. Maitreya+Legacy+Reborn plus extra sizes for petite/perky/pushup options is already a lot of work to rig, throw in maze thighs for 2-3 bodies, juicy rolls and mounds for Reborn (sometimes) to make it even worse. Some big brands can afford to hire a rigger and add extra sizes, but those most unique/original creators usually do all by themselves.

Edited December 16, 2022 by steeljane42

[PJBear Bitey]

So, I looked at the list. Well, as of 2022.12.15.  Some on there I wouldn't have expected near the top of the list.

Top 15 Woman bodies (the missing bodies are men bodies):

1. Maitreya Lara

4. Meshbody - Legacy female 

5. MeshBody - classic (female) * Not sure what this one is - don't think it's the original TMP, but the new version is Legacy, then variations of that include Legacy in the name (like Legacy Perky), so what's Classic?

6. Inithium Kupra

7. eBody Reborn

10. LucyBody Atena (this one was completely unexpected to see sit at #10)

12. Meshbody - Legacy Perky

14. Belleza - Freya (not unexpected on list, but unexpected so close to top)

15. Utilizator - Kemono  (not sure I've seen this one in the wild, so to speak)

17. eBody Curvy (I see Atena mentioned a lot on threads on here, so not unexpected on list, just unexpected at #10. Curvy? I didn't expect on list)

18. Sweet's Ruth (eh? What's this?)

19. Slink Hourglass 

21. eBody Classic (see #17)

25. Slink Original (not sure what this means; there are several Slinks on there that I'm unsure about, like this one, and #76 "Slink Mesh Body")

26. Altamura Jenny

 

(I own: 1, 6, 7, 10, 12, 14, 34 (Rebirth Eden, I think, it's also listed at 252), 39 (Kalhene Erika), 42, 46, 70, 98)

I've seen mentioned in threads, not yet mentioned in this post:

102: SP Peach;

105: Belleza Gen X Curvy;

124: Belleza Gen X Classic 

Non-human: 36 - Dinkies Cat; 54 - Wolf; 56 - Mare; 59, 63, 71, 73?, 82, 84, 87, 92, 109?, 114, 117, 121?, 122?, 125, 129, 146, 147?, 148?, 149, 153, 154, 156, 158?, 159, 160, 161, 162?, 163, 167, 168, 179, 181, 182, 184, 186, 187, 196?, 200?, 201, 205, 208?, 210, 214, 215, 217, 228, 231, 233, 236, 238, 240, 242, 244, 247, 250, 251?, 253, 254?, 256?, 259, 260, 265, 266, 267 ........ etc.

 

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, PJBear said:

5. MeshBody - classic (female) * Not sure what this one is - don't think it's the original TMP, but the new version is Legacy, then variations of that include Legacy in the name (like Legacy Perky), so what's Classic?

It's the updated version of the original and it's free.  BOM and all that.  Free or nearly free bodies and heads will always be higher on the list IMO even if they aren't optimal.or well supported by clothing makers.

[PJBear Bitey]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's the updated version of the original and it's free.  BOM and all that.  Free or nearly free bodies and heads will always be higher on the list IMO even if they aren't optimal.or well supported by clothing makers.

Thanks. I had a vague thought that might be what was going on.

So, with that in mind. I believe 5, 10, and I think 17 & 21 are free bodies (at least I think I've seen moments when eBody Classic & Curvy were free).  I've seen a body called Ruth that was free on Marketplace, but not sure if this is same Ruth at 18.

I've seen people mentioning Belleza could/should/somethingsomething give Belleza Freya/Isis/Venus away for free. I can see why they might not since all three are still in top 50 of bodies (Freya - 14, Isis - 27, Venus - 46).  And the two GenX's aren't even in top 100.

Edited December 17, 2022 by PJBear

[Psyche Starling]

I have Sweet's Ruth on an alt, and yeah, it's a free body. It fits-ish a lot of Maitreya clothes.

[steeljane42]

40 minutes ago, PJBear said:

So, I looked at the list. Well, as of 2022.12.15.  Some on there I wouldn't have expected near the top of the list.

Lucia's system has been up for quite sometime now, so I'm sure quite a few of those unique entries are not updated forever since bots didn't bump onto the same avatars anymore.

Do check other options there, most importantly the trending tab. It will give you a bit better picture of what's popular/trending and what is on decline. For example Kupra - it had 315 new wearers detected in the last 90 days, and for the last week it's actually on a negative trend (means avatars that had it on when bots scanned them the last time, now using something else). I remember it had around 12.5k entries detected when Reborn had like 6-7k just half a year ago, now Reborn is about to surpass it in 2-3 weeks, depending how holidays gonna affect the sales.

Another example: Belleza - Freya | 7205 | 1.7% | -5 | -18 (2.5) | -30 (2.1) | -79 (2.6) | -186 (2) | -68 (0.3)

40 minutes ago, PJBear said:

25. Slink Original (not sure what this means; there are several Slinks on there that I'm unsure about, like this one, and #76 "Slink Mesh Body")

Some mesh bodies were re-uploaded under different account for one reason or another. Kupra surely was. First one was under creator's main account I believe, but shortly after the release it was reuploaded under the store's account.

So it could be it, or perhaps it's the very first version of Slink female body. It was later (been so long ago, but I think it was late 2014 - early 2015) reworked enough so clothing made for first version didn't fit the updated version anymore, kinda like Belleza Jake 1.0's rings don't fit the 2.0 (and up) versions.

Edited December 17, 2022 by steeljane42

[Ceka Cianci]

26 minutes ago, PJBear said:

Thanks. I had a vague thought that might be what was going on.

So, with that in mind. I believe 5, 10, and I think 17 & 21 are free bodies (at least I think I've seen moments when eBody Classic & Curvy were free).  I've seen a body called Ruth that was free on Marketplace, but not sure if this is same Ruth at 18.

I've seen people mentioning Belleza could/should/somethingsomething give Belleza Freya/Isis/Venus away for free. I can see why they might not since all three are still in top 50 of bodies (Freya - 14, Isis - 27, Venus - 46).  And the two GenX's aren't even in top 100.

Ya it happens with the heads too... You would think Lelutka would have the number one head right now, but it's not..

It's the Genus Strong Gift head is at the top of the list.. Lelutika has to top paid for heads though and pretty much dominate the list..

[Psyche Starling]

25 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya it happens with the heads too... You would think Lelutka would have the number one head right now, but it's not..

It's the Genus Strong Gift head is at the top of the list.. Lelutika has to top paid for heads though and pretty much dominate the list..

And a lot of times the paid heads on top of the list are the ones that have been free, like Lelutka Lilly. It was a Xmas gift I think two years ago, which surely boosted its numbers.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, BookishMelinoe said:

And a lot of times the paid heads on top of the list are the ones that have been free, like Lelutka Lilly. It was a Xmas gift I think two years ago, which surely boosted its numbers.

I think Free is what gets them into peoples inventory, but I don't think it's what keeps them on their head..Which is what the list is based on.. How many are wearing which head at the moment..

 

 

[Marianne Little]

4 hours ago, PJBear said:

------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen people mentioning Belleza could/should/somethingsomething give Belleza Freya/Isis/Venus away for free. I can see why they might not since all three are still in top 50 of bodies (Freya - 14, Isis - 27, Venus - 46).  And the two GenX's aren't even in top 100.

I've said that if they want GenX to replace Freya, Isis and Venus, they should give those who own Belleza already, GenX for free.

Or a very good deal, let us say you wear one of your old bodies and click buy on the GenX terminal, you pay 1000 L instead of 5500.

So loyal customers can change from the older Belleza line to GenX. And also create a buzz around them, the word spread: "Hey, you heard that Belleza is back, and you get the new GenX bodies so cheap if you have one of the old. Didn't you have Belleza already? Here is my body... isn't it gorgeous?!"

I am sure the GenX would jump high up on the list, if it was so.

Wear them, use them, shop for them, it is what makes bodies popular and why people makes clothes for them. And those who want to buy a new body, can see that it is GenX sizes available, they are easy to shop for.

[steeljane42]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think Free is what gets them into peoples inventory, but I don't think it's what keeps them on their head..Which is what the list is based on.. How many are wearing which head at the moment..

 

 

Very true. As far as bodies go, Kupra creators had around 2.5k kups bodies given for free on their 2nd anniversary event a couple of months ago. It had a weekly boost of like 90 entries, then went into negative trend again. So essentially it didn't change a thing for that body at all, it did remain barely used and seen.

And temporary free heads examples - Catwa Queen. It's somewhat used, but I would imagine there are way more people who got it when it was free, but either didn't use it at all, or stopped using it after they've got something better looking and supported.

[Ceka Cianci]

6 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Very true. As far as bodies go, Kupra creators had around 2.5k kups bodies given for free on their 2nd anniversary event a couple of months ago. It had a weekly boost of like 90 entries, then went into negative trend again. So essentially it didn't change a thing for that body at all, it did remain barely used and seen.

And temporary free heads examples - Catwa Queen. It's somewhat used, but I would imagine there are way more people who got it when it was free, but either didn't use it at all, or stopped using it after they've got something better looking and supported.

Ya, I also think the mesh head market runs on a little different fuel than the mesh body market..

A mesh bodies success is so dependent on 3rd party creators making a body popular, that  we end up losing some really good bodies to the direction they feel like going.. I really hope at some point in the future that it's possible  that we can get back to where things were much more universal like they were with system clothes.. Mesh bodies in their current state  leave the direction and success of a body in the hands of creators instead of the customers..

Where with the Mesh head market, things are much more in our own hands and most times you can transfer all your stuff to your new mesh heads since BOM came out.. If not, it's not going to cost a fortune to go out and get things for your head, like it does mesh bodies..

Edited December 17, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Janet Voxel]

It’s just on sale?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

It’s just on sale?

Went on sale Saturday.

"All items in store are UP to 50% Off. This includes the Gen.X bodies which are set at 33% Off!"

[Trinity Blakewell]

But EvoX kind of changed things as far as mesh heads and skins. EvoX skins can't be used on heads that don't include EvoX mapping. Right now, that's the dominant skin type supported by designers.

[Ceka Cianci]

39 minutes ago, Trinity1776 said:

But EvoX kind of changed things as far as mesh heads and skins. EvoX skins can't be used on heads that don't include EvoX mapping. Right now, that's the dominant skin type supported by designers.

There really hasn't been anyone putting out any other heads that are trying to compete with them..

Lelutka is the only one really, that keeps putting out fresh good products..

I think a big reason we see more EvoX than anything else is, Because there hasn't been anything fresh to skin for in the other heads in a good while..

Genus hasn't really done anything in the last going on 3 years soon.. It's understandable why though also.. Part of that time they have been in a war zone..

Catwa, I'm not sure when they put out their last head, I haven' heard of anything new from them in awhile..

Those are really their only competition.. 

Honestly, it feels good that the head market isn't saturated like the body market..

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:16 AM, Marianne Little said:

I've said that if they want GenX to replace Freya, Isis and Venus, they should give those who own Belleza already, GenX for free.

Or a very good deal, let us say you wear one of your old bodies and click buy on the GenX terminal, you pay 1000 L instead of 5500.

One of these two would help it gain some traction, I tend to agree.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Went on sale Saturday.

"All items in store are UP to 50% Off. This includes the Gen.X bodies which are set at 33% Off!"

They can probably do pretty good if they kept it at that price.. They would do a lot better if it was lower though for sure, like in the Maitreya price range.. Maybe they'll inch down to it eventually..

I don't think they even made a dent during black Friday.. This price they might do much better..

These sales, with how they are dropping the percentage like that in small increments, feels like they are doing price tests and feeling out the market to where things start to pump and flow..

If that is what they are doing, it's a good chance we could see it at a better price after these sales are over..

I'd like to see it do good.. I hate seeing it do this bad  just because of the price..

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'd like to see it do good.. I hate seeing it do this bad  just because of the price..

Not sure if the price alone is responsible. There are already a lot of bodies out there (and all of their unique versions), for a start, so creators are finding themselves having to either add it or change what they're currently offering to include it in their workflows. I guess that's why stores are starting to survey customers - some plan to drop support for other bodies to fit it in, if there's enough demand. 

Plus, I think others are just in wait and see mode. Not only to see how much content is coming out for it and what it looks like, but also to see if we get that alternative version they promised. Mod perms for those who want/need it, and a PG body for those of us who wear tails and things. As it stands, they're saying Mod & PG won't be coming out until their first major update is released. No ETA for either one. That alone is making me not want to even bother. I picked up several heads over the holidays that led to making a bunch of brand new avatars that use tails - in addition to the ones I already had - and another big head sale is coming for Christmas so knowing me, I'll grab one or two more - so it's a rough time for me to swap bodies to something that doesn't currently support them.

[CalypsoJewel]

This sale price is much better. Puts it around Reborn's price, and that is one I can live with personally. Will I be getting it though? Don't know. I would get classic and I hardly see things for it yet, so if the price stays around what it's sale is then i'll probably get it if I see things pick up for the one I want. I won't waste my money on another "curvy" catered body. What I have is fine in that department.

My anthro-exclusive friends though will have to wait another 2 yrs until their update lol -sigh-

[Ceka Cianci]

57 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Not sure if the price alone is responsible. There are already a lot of bodies out there (and all of their unique versions), for a start, so creators are finding themselves having to either add it or change what they're currently offering to include it in their workflows. I guess that's why stores are starting to survey customers - some plan to drop support for other bodies to fit it in, if there's enough demand. 

Plus, I think others are just in wait and see mode. Not only to see how much content is coming out for it and what it looks like, but also to see if we get that alternative version they promised. Mod perms for those who want/need it, and a PG body for those of us who wear tails and things. As it stands, they're saying Mod & PG won't be coming out until their first major update is released. No ETA for either one. That alone is making me not want to even bother. I picked up several heads over the holidays that led to making a bunch of brand new avatars that use tails - in addition to the ones I already had - and another big head sale is coming for Christmas so knowing me, I'll grab one or two more - so it's a rough time for me to swap bodies to something that doesn't currently support them.

Ya there is more to it than the price for sure.. With so many bodies out there though, they really need to get in that range where Maitreya is and priced right instead of what they feel is right.. They really need to get in that  recommended price range where new users are switching to them after they  move from the starter bodies..

I think a body is gonna get picked apart in those higher prices more, where at the lower prices you start getting people being a lot more  forgiving and shift more to noticing the good things about it..

It has a lot of things getting made for it right now.. they just need the customers wearing them and buying the things getting made for it.. Because those sellers will stop making  things for it if the body creators don't get back on the road to somewhere..

 

We'll see if this sale does anything with the numbers or not in the next few days.. I grabbed them this morning to see where they are at right now..

 

 

 

[Nalates Urriah]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:18 PM, PJBear said:

25. Slink Original (not sure what this means; there are several Slinks on there that I'm unsure about, like this one, and #76 "Slink Mesh Body")

Lots of people are confused about Slink bodies. There is Slink Physique and Redux. Physique bodies use appliers and alpha cuts. The Redux bodies use BOM and alpha layers.

Within in both Physique (or Classic) and Redux (BOM) there are various bodies;

• Original, Original Homme, Original Petite
• Hourglass, HG Homme, HGPetite

So overall there are a dozen variations of the Slink body. Since few can keep even the idea of Physique and Redux straight, it is not surprising to see odd naming of Slink bodies. Of course this distorts the ranking with Slink being spread across multiple variations of the body. The #25 could be Slink Physique Original or Slink Redux Original.

Appearance-wise Physique and Redux are the same body. The difference is in the ACI, poly county, and script complexity.

[Cinos Field]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:30 PM, Ayashe Ninetails said:

As it stands, they're saying Mod & PG won't be coming out until their first major update is released. No ETA for either one.

This part is so incredibly irritating. Sure, maybe a PG version would be some extra work. But making it modifiable is a single click. Get it out now and then maybe make a really easy-to-use variant later on!

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cinos Field

[Blaise Glendevon]

1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

This part is so incredibly irritating. Sure, maybe a PG version would be some extra work. But making it modifiable is a single click. Get it out now and then maybe make a really easy-to-use variant later on!

Unless that single click breaks some script or some contribution from a third party they don't have the right to sell mod-perm enabled.