SL new user retention, expectation and usability

[cunomar]

I once told a prison guard you can lock up the body but never the mind , and you my friend are here for life while i will be out partying in a few months .

Theres a slogan for SL in that somewhere - something to exploit while advertising SL .

No morals in advertising , to sell food you make the viewer hungry , to sell heat you make them cold , to sell companionship you make them .....

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I may be wrong about this, but I think the reason that platforms and skyboxes are currently less laggy than ground level is because they are less built up.

If you start crowding a particular altitude with structures and stuff to accommodate lots of people, it's likely to become just as laggy as the ground.

Things may have changed over the years, but I think the viewer stops rendering terrain, water, and clouds above a certain elevation. I've flown up and down the region I live on and don't see any significant change in FPS with altitude. I should fly up above 4096 and see what happens.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Things may have changed over the years, but I think the viewer stops rendering terrain, water, and clouds above a certain elevation. I've flown up and down the region I live on and don't see any significant change in FPS with altitude. I should fly up above 4096 and see what happens.

Well, it certainly won't render terrain or water. Not sure about clouds, but I have platforms fairly high up (between 3000 and 5000) and I do get clouds there: I know because I use them for pics.

My platforms also have a substantially better FPS, but again, I am pretty sure that's only because there is less around to render.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, cunomar said:

I once told a prison guard you can lock up the body but never the mind , and you my friend are here for life while i will be out partying in a few months .

Theres a slogan for SL in that somewhere - something to exploit while advertising SL .

No morals in advertising , to sell food you make the viewer hungry , to sell heat you make them cold , to sell companionship you make them .....

"Second Life - because they can kill you, but there's a lot of worse things that could happen."

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, it certainly won't render terrain or water. Not sure about clouds, but I have platforms fairly high up (between 3000 and 5000) and I do get clouds there: I know because I use them for pics.

My platforms also have a substantially better FPS, but again, I am pretty sure that's only because there is less around to render.

My region doesn't have much on the ground. It's filled with auto-rezzing skyboxes that vanish when their occupants depart, leaving only their objects floating eerily in space. Now that you mention it, I do recall seeing clouds when I use a skybox scene that's open to the sky.

I agree that lag seems related to "stuff".

[Finite]

16 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

My region doesn't have much on the ground. It's filled with auto-rezzing skyboxes that vanish when their occupants depart, leaving only their objects floating eerily in space. Now that you mention it, I do recall seeing clouds when I use a skybox scene that's open to the sky.

I agree that lag seems related to "stuff".

Ha that’s actually very intuitive minus the objects remaining behind.

[cunomar]

Creative mind at play here making an ad for SL that promises nothing more than what it is .

RL wake up one cold and grey morning , tumble down the stairs to make a cuppa and stare out of a cracked window into the rain , perhaps leaning down to turn on an old electric heater which should have been dumped decades ago .

The actor looks around ruefully taking in his/her miserable surroundings and with a shake of the head reaches out to switch computer on where he is transported into a virtual world where he is sat with his cuppa under a sunny blue sky on the deck of his boat .

"You can lock up the body but never the mind"

Needs to be honest though meaning a newbie avatar and a freebie boat , perhaps miss world will sail past on her elegant yacht and comment i had the same boat when i first arrived here .

[HelenaNavy92]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:26 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

one of the problems is, older cards DO really work, just don't ask here on the forum, or really everything that is older than 3 months gets nuked as rubbisch gear.
People Cán play with a 640m or 960m or any other nvidia.
Yes it's a bit limiting in settings. But it IS possible.
The same with GB memory .. yes 4 isn't to much, 8 is better, but móre is nót needed, just convenient.
Don't trash your dollars to fast in upgrading to a higher end gaming machine.

I don't know about graphic cards, sure older won't load fast but I'll share something. My pc is 5 years old, it has Intel build in video card. I used hdd 1T. But the last year it loaded the game really slow. I asked few people about that and all I had to do is to buy a SSD and install Windows and Second life on it. And the problem is solved. I will buy other stuff for my pc of course. But this only one thing really changed my SL experience. I share it because some people may not know it. 

It was long ago when I first logged in but I remember that I couldn't move. When I think about it now it's like - what was that difficulty, I don't get it now. And the second impression was what should I do now? Where do I have to go? I'm sure that question is still a thing for the newcommers. Now I realize that Second life gives us the freedom that no other game can offer. That's why I love it. I tried The Sims once and I didn't like it. I hate that constantly "go there, do this" . And I'm sure after we get those mesh starter avis the new users will like it and also they might be accepted from others. Because most of the users don't like noobs. They avoid them. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by HelenaNavy92

[Katherine Heartsong]

12 hours ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

One of the problems is people keep saying Second Life is a game .... Because when you come to the "game" Second Life ... there is no game. People should stop telling people it is a game but call it what it is ... a virtual world. And in that world there are games in it, jobs, businesses etc. But when you call it a game people look for how to play it ... they find nothing of course. 

I have a board game store in RL and boardgame hobbiests do the same kind of thing. A game without a ton of strategy like a party game they will say "it's not a game ... it an activity". 

Love the first part of this. But I think the temptation of most people, even if by accident, is to use the term "game" when describing SL because they are "playing" on their computer. Collectively, we need to stop that. (wags finger!)

Second part? Hard core board gamer for decades (as in, level 20 BGG poster). Agree 100%.

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 hours ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

I have a board game store in RL and boardgame hobbiests do the same kind of thing. A game without a ton of strategy like a party game they will say "it's not a game ... it an activity". 

But you literally just called it a game. Twice.

[Love Zhaoying]

SL is a great "game" for "What did you want to be when you grew up?"..

Apparently, a lot of people wanted to be strippers and escorts!

[HelenaNavy92]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:34 AM, EliseAnne85 said:

And, it's a shame in some ways, Maddy.  I know people who live on their phone and listen to music on those horrible phone speakers and it sounds terrible; I wonder sometimes if the younger generation as ever heard music and I mean sound-wise.  The newest "gadget" that I know of is someone is coming out with a blockchain phone set to be released about the beginning of 2023, last I heard.  I don't know if it's going to be a hit or a flop.  I would not want it.  I'd love to have a Smart TV but I know nothing of Smart TV's or if a Smart TV could run SL or not.  If it could, that I would love.  SL on a big TV screen.  VR I'm not a fan of having something on my head.  

Actually, you can use your TV with hdmi connected to your pc. I run my pc with my tv using it for monitor because I mostly watch movies on my pc. 

[EliseAnne85]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, it certainly won't render terrain or water. Not sure about clouds, but I have platforms fairly high up (between 3000 and 5000) and I do get clouds there: I know because I use them for pics.

My platforms also have a substantially better FPS, but again, I am pretty sure that's only because there is less around to render.

I was thinking that maybe one of the things that could cause more lag is the water and the sky.   And, when you build on ground, you can't get rid of the ocean, sky or all those neighbors unless you put up big privacy screens, etc...  I prefer to build in the sky to get rid of neighbors stuff I don't want to see.  But, my FPS is constantly changing the whole time I'm on SL.  

I've had some renting experiences recently wherein I'm looking to rent on the ground and both landlords said "or we could put you in the sky".  There is a belief in SL that the sky is less laggy.  Or they were offering me sky over ground for privacy?  I dunno why they would do that when I'm in a tiny little cat avatar...?

The relation to stuff as Madelaine said (I dunno how to do multi quotes) goes back to the 1024's super large textures then plus the mesh itself might have tons of triangles.  

I'd assume Bellesaria is built optimized?   I think optimization is one of the best things to know when one starts SL if they have an average laptop and  are a starter in SL.  They may not rez large shopping sims with tons of stuff but neither can I half the time nor do I really want to put my computer through all that at a shopping sim when I mostly buy on MP anyway for the convivence.  

Strangely though, if newcomers start, I'd assume they start on Linden land.  Why wouldn't it be optimized ground land then if one is beginning because this is the reason I brought up the sky because it's said in this thread people are quitting very quickly.

Edited August 30, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, HelenaNavy92 said:

Actually, you can use your TV with hdmi connected to your pc. I run my pc with my tv using it for monitor because I mostly watch movies on my pc. 

Me too. Unfortunately, my PC does not seem to have internal sound (anymore, or it never did - I forget) so I use the optical (!) output from the PC to play the sound on the TV sound bar!

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

this is the reason I brought up the sky because it's said in this thread people are quitting very quickly.

All kinds of things are said.  Don't believe most of it!

Changes like the new Bellissaria homes and the new Performance viewer are making lots of people happy.

People may be quitting the FORUMS more than usual due to rule changes, but that's a whole different ball of string.  Most of the people I see posting about users quitting Second Life, are not Forum regulars - in my opinion, those posters are airing their personal grievances.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Love Zhaoying
I just can't shut up.

[Nalates Urriah]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

All kinds of things are said.  Don't believe most of it!

Changes like the new Bellissaria homes and the new Performance viewer are making lots of people happy.

People may be quitting the FORUMS more than usual due to rule changes, but that's a whole different ball of string.  Most of the people I see posting about users quitting Second Life, are not Forum regulars - in my opinion, those posters are airing their personal grievances.

I agree.

How does anyone, other than a Linden, know what is happening with the SL world or forum user groups?

In most cases I suspect what people state as fact is only opinion based on desire not objective data or observation.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:01 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

It's not the ground or the ocean that makes life at the surface laggy, it's user-added textures. People slap 1024x1024 textures on everything, just because they can. It only takes a few of those to start giving even the fastest video card a workout.

It seems like an easy fix would be to devise algorithms to determine a default resolution necessary for an acceptable appearance for whatever a texture is being used for and render it at that resolution. Perhaps let users opt for a higher resolution for a price.

[EliseAnne85]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Changes like the new Bellissaria homes and the new Performance viewer are making lots of people happy.

There is a new viewer with a premium account you mean?  I didn't know that!  I have been considering going premium.  

[EliseAnne85]

8 hours ago, HelenaNavy92 said:

My pc is 5 years old, it has Intel build in video card. I used hdd 1T. But the last year it loaded the game really slow. I asked few people about that and all I had to do is to buy a SSD and install Windows and Second life on it. 

I've never heard of an SSD so I just looked it up.  Sounds interesting.  

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

There is a new viewer with a premium account you mean?  I didn't know that!  I have been considering going premium.  

The viewer is for everyone not just premium users.

[EliseAnne85]

20 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The viewer is for everyone not just premium users.

Which viewer is he speaking of.  The newest SL viewer?  

[EliseAnne85]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Things may have changed over the years, but I think the viewer stops rendering terrain, water, and clouds above a certain elevation. I've flown up and down the region I live on and don't see any significant change in FPS with altitude. I should fly up above 4096 and see what happens.

One place I lived was up in space in what my landlord at that time called "abandoned mainland".  There were no clouds up there.  Just a bunch of stuff no one seemed to ever visit or finish building.  

[Sorina Garrigus]

5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

But you literally just called it a game. Twice.

I forgot to put the quotes around it thanks I Will fix it. 
EDIT UPDATE: Sorry I did put quotes around the word game. People do that in real life they put air quotes up to indicate a word is not being used accurately. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Sorina Garrigus

[Rowan Amore]

30 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Which viewer is he speaking of.  The newest SL viewer?  

Yes, the newest SL viewer has updates that, from what has been reported, significantly improve performance.   The Firestorm Beta group also has a new release with the same code as the LL viewer.

[Ceka Cianci]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yes, the newest SL viewer has updates that, from what has been reported, significantly improve performance.   The Firestorm Beta group also has a new release with the same code as the LL viewer.

Is that the one where they have you do the double security stuff at login?