Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

@Ayashe Ninetails

I liked your sentiments earlier about just getting rid of EVERYthing, bringing nothing but your backpack to your new environment.

But I'm having trouble getting rid of all my stuff...there's some dishes that belonged to a relative...captured in the first draft of this unfinished poem:

But The Dishes

she traveled west to this prairie land in a covered wagon
her tiny body jumping out to cry "it's so dusty I hate it!!!"
she made her home here, my great grandmother

i was alone with her once
in a the dusty basement of my childhood home
as a tornado ripped through the neighborhood
she, close to 100, and me, maybe 2
the only ones too fragile to climb the basement stairs

as I prepare to exit this grand country
where covered wagons trekked west
seeking freedom and a better life
i find a treasure
a box of gold rimmed dishes with blue etchings
it's all I have of her

It's reaaaaaally hard. I'd venture a guess that it's almost impossible for most people to just toss a few items into a bag and just go. You could ship, maybe, but if they're really fragile, that's massively risky. If you're driving across, it might not be too bad to bring a lot with you.

I have a lot of stuff - mostly in the crafting realm. I seem to collect yarn, fabric, and jewelry-making supplies. I'd probably just ship anything I really wanted to keep. Dragging massive luggage through airports, though? Never again!

[Luna Bliss]

Taking a vote on a stopgap measure, the Federal Abortion Rights Bill. Not going to pass, but Bernie gave a good try:

 

[Luna Bliss]

[Luna Bliss]

 

[Randall Ahren]

9 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Spain and Portugal used to be big in colonization, they were the ones who started it. But that was back in medieval times, almost 500 years ago.

500 years ago was during the Renaissance, which commenced in the 14th century. See https://www.history.com/topics/middle-ages/middle-ages

[Luna Bliss]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:34 AM, Ayashe Ninetails said:

You could ship, maybe, but if they're really fragile, that's massively risky. If you're driving across, it might not be too bad to bring a lot with you.

I'm thinking now of giving the dishes to my cousin to pass on to his children (we had the same great grandmother), as my unconscious desires floating into consciousness from my poem have revealed my primary concern....that these dishes be passed on as a connection to those ancestors who came before us. Giving them to my daughter and then to her son will likely not work as well for various reasons.

This cousin made me think of where he lives (close to Canada), and climate change, as many say there will be a great migration north as the world heats up. You could be in a very good location where you are in NY.  Could it be a silver lining for you to live so far north? I don't know, and perhaps it depends on how bad the autocracy gets here in the US?

[Modulated]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm thinking now of giving the dishes to my cousin to pass on to his children (we had the same great grandmother), as my unconscious desires floating into consciousness from my poem have revealed my primary concern....that these dishes be passed on as a connection to those ancestors who came before us. Giving them to my daughter and then to her son will likely not work as well for various reasons.

This cousin made me think of where he lives (close to Canada), and climate change, as many say there will be a great migration north as the world heats up. You could be in a very good location where you are in NY.  Could it be a silver lining for you to live so far north? I don't know, and perhaps it depends on how bad the autocracy gets here in the US?

I am not usually a fan of LARPing but this thread has been excellent! 👍

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm thinking now of giving the dishes to my cousin to pass on to his children (we had the same great grandmother), as my unconscious desires floating into consciousness from my poem have revealed my primary concern....that these dishes be passed on as a connection to those ancestors who came before us. Giving them to my daughter and then to her son will likely not work as well for various reasons.

This cousin made me think of where he lives (close to Canada), and climate change, as many say there will be a great migration north as the world heats up. You could be in a very good location where you are in NY.  Could it be a silver lining for you to live so far north? I don't know, and perhaps it depends on how bad the autocracy gets here in the US?

Passing them down does sound like the right thing to do! That's a pretty solid idea.

As far as my location and climate change goes, I honestly never even think about it. Our weather has always seemed weirdly all over the place and we aren't immune from damaging hurricanes, the occasional tornado, flooding, homes being swept off beaches, etc. It would be difficult for me to figure out if things are getting progressively worse or not in that arena. Seems kind of the same for me as of right now.

One thing I'll say - it's not enough to keep me planted here. And the current political climate has little to do with me wanting to move on. That feeling started eons ago when I was 18ish. Like right after high school I wanted out. I had planned to go away to college back then, but couldn't settle on a major at all (I've always been all over the place on that front - interested in wayyyy too many things). I wound up staying local and working through my first degree here until I could figure things out. Silly me - I should've left way back then and done a full 4 years abroad as I would've stood a greater chance of it all becoming permanent. 

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

That feeling started eons ago when I was 18ish. Like right after high school I wanted out. I had planned to go away to college back then, but couldn't settle on a major at all (I've always been all over the place on that front - interested in wayyyy too many things). I wound up staying local and working through my first degree here until I could figure things out. Silly me - I should've left way back then and done a full 4 years abroad as I would've stood a greater chance of it all becoming permanent. 

Yeah all I know is that the US is generally not a good place for a person of color, though there are regional differences. And with current restrictions for voting in Black districts and other attitudes toward POC regressing it's getting worse. Seems we've never gotten over the Civil War really.

I wonder how much better it would be for POC in specific countries in Europe today. My impression is that in the past it was better for POC, but there seems to be such resistance to migrants today, with darker skin tones especially. I doubt it's on par with what POC in the US experience though. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I wonder how much better it would be for POC in specific countries in Europe today. My impression is that in the past it was better for POC, but there seems to be such resistance to migrants today, with darker skin tones especially. I doubt it's on par with what POC in the US experience though. 

This has been written about fairly extensively. There are travel bloggers, adventurers, students, and other career professionals who left the US and went abroad seeking a better life and spent a lot of time writing about it. Some wound up in Europe and elsewhere. I believe the general consensus seems to be it's "okay," as the day-to-day challenges they face are slightly different than those in the US, but those who found themselves in Central and South America and other regions seem to have better experiences (sometimes - really depends where you go, of course - lots of places have their challenges).

Random articles (most from a Black female perspective, but you can Google around for others - soooo many have been written):

https://candaceabroad.com/best-cities-black-women-to-live/ - this one has links below the sections that lead off-site to more in-depth articles.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/black-expat-experience

https://fortune.com/2020/08/10/black-african-americans-leaving-us-moving-abroad-professionals-race-opportunity-careers/

https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a34327214/black-women-leaving-america-healthcare/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/09/black-americans-expats-costa-rica

[Doris Johnsky]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:33 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

Depends on why one is thinking of moving. Climate, Political climate, economics? Cheap or free health care?

Just for the record there are no free rides.  

If healthcare is cheap or free, then expect taxes to be high.  It's not cheap or free. Your taxes pay for it.

[Modulated]

22 minutes ago, Doris Johnsky said:

Just for the record there are no free rides.  

If healthcare is cheap or free, then expect taxes to be high.  It's not cheap or free. Your taxes pay for it.

[Lysistrata Szapira]

20 minutes ago, Doris Johnsky said:

Just for the record there are no free rides.  

If healthcare is cheap or free, then expect taxes to be high.  It's not cheap or free. Your taxes pay for it.

There seems to be a misconception of exactly how much higher taxes would be. People tend to forget about the fact that yes, taxes will be higher, but they will likely still have more money left in their pockets because most health insurance plans in the US SUCK.  Extremely high deductibles. High out of pocket maximums. Some studies have shown that people will be less out of pocket under universal healthcare despite the increase in taxes. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Healthcare, what's that? 🙃

[Doris Johnsky]

1 hour ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

There seems to be a misconception of exactly how much higher taxes would be. People tend to forget about the fact that yes, taxes will be higher, but they will likely still have more money left in their pockets because most health insurance plans in the US SUCK.  Extremely high deductibles. High out of pocket maximums. Some studies have shown that people will be less out of pocket under universal healthcare despite the increase in taxes. 

And you have the same crappy healthcare that Vets get.   You get what you pay for.  I've not talked to anyone from Canada that likes the system there. 

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Doris Johnsky said:

It's not cheap or free. Your taxes pay for it.

This is true, but it's also true that the US healthcare system could be much better and cost much less. An awful lot of what you pay goes for things like unnecessary tests (the doctor is protecting himself against a malpractice claim), lawyers, accountants, lobbyists, and drug companies. Insurance companies are raking it in, because they collect a lot more in premiums than they pay out in claims. Medical services pricing is an unholy mess...the doctor charges your insurance $500; Medicare allows $100; your supplemental policy pays an additional $50; and the doctor's office simply ignores the remaining $350, because they knew they'd never get it anyway. The US is limited by law as to how many medical schools there can be and how many doctors they can turn out, and it's not enough to meet the demand. What sort of a way is that to do business?

The Veterans Administration is often pointed to as "what government run health care would look like", and it is true that the VA provides terrible care. But the health system for active duty military and dependents is excellent. I see no reason why the US could not have taxpayer supported health care for everyone that works as well as the military health care system.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

the doctor charges your insurance $500; Medicare allows $100; your supplemental policy pays an additional $50; and the doctor's office simply ignores the remaining $350,

This has always bothered me.  They still charge someone without insurance $500.  If anyone needs a discount, it's those people and not the insurance companies.  

[Caroline Takeda]

I did live in several different countries/areas of a country

• Canary Islands (twice)
• Balearic Islands
• Dominican Republic (twice)

Now I am back to German since about 10 years.

Desadvantages:

• The weather is ***** for at least 6 months a year
• Bureaucracy is exaggerated and really annoying
• Political landscape includes some NAZIS again
• Fairly high taxes if you earn above average
• Not far away enough from Russia
• Very strict legal system

Advantages

• Guaranteed health insurance for everybody
• Guaranteed unemployment support
• Free professional education programs
• Lots of job opportunities in many different fields
• High average income and good salaries in many fields and minimum salary fixed by law
• Stable economy despite of past and current crisis's
• Solid democracy respecting everybody's freedom and independence
• Very cosmopolitan especially the big cities
• Fairly low crime rate
   

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Doris Johnsky said:

And you have the same crappy healthcare that Vets get.   You get what you pay for.  I've not talked to anyone from Canada that likes the system there. 

We get what we pay for?  It's not so simple. For example:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-insulin-by-country

Top 10 Countries Where Insulin is Most Expensive (2018 RAND Corporation):

1. United States — $98.70
2. Chile — $21.48
3. Mexico — $16.48
4. Japan — $14.40
5. Switzerland — $12.46
6. Canada — $12.00
7. Germany — $11.00
8. Korea — $10.30
9. Luxembourg — $10.15
10. Italy — $10.03

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I've not talked to anyone from Canada that likes the system there. 

Perhaps they should come to the US where, if their income is too low, they will have no insurance or health care at all.  They die instead.

This is the nice thing about Canada and some European countries -- all are taken care of and nobody is priced out of the system as is the case in the US.  Here, it's okay if some people die. 

[Luna Bliss]

18 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

This has been written about fairly extensively. There are travel bloggers, adventurers, students, and other career professionals who left the US and went abroad seeking a better life and spent a lot of time writing about it. Some wound up in Europe and elsewhere. I believe the general consensus seems to be it's "okay," as the day-to-day challenges they face are slightly different than those in the US, but those who found themselves in Central and South America and other regions seem to have better experiences (sometimes - really depends where you go, of course - lots of places have their challenges).

Random articles (most from a Black female perspective, but you can Google around for others - soooo many have been written):

https://candaceabroad.com/best-cities-black-women-to-live/ - this one has links below the sections that lead off-site to more in-depth articles.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/black-expat-experience

https://fortune.com/2020/08/10/black-african-americans-leaving-us-moving-abroad-professionals-race-opportunity-careers/

https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a34327214/black-women-leaving-america-healthcare/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/09/black-americans-expats-costa-rica

Great links, and they reveal clearly how these women feel so much better outside the US due to racial issues here.

I liked what one of them named the United States, the Un-United States. 

[Caroline Takeda]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

1. Germany — $11.00

Paid by state health insurance. Aka: Free

[Luna Bliss]

Routine medical care in Mexico is inexpensive compared to the US, but a major medical incident could still rack up a big bill. So it seems the best plan is to cover routine care out-of-pocket and purchase catastrophic insurance (which is also cheap compare to the US).

Hospitals in most cities are modern, and many of the doctors have trained in the US.

From 2018:

"A recent study reported that a single day in a hospital in the U.S. costs around $1,514 while according to the World Health Organization the healthcare costs in Mexico are less than $120. A routine doctor’s visit in the U.S. costs around $176, whereas in Mexico the cost of routine doctor visits is less than half this rate at around $40.

The latest data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) shows that the United States spends much more on health care than any other country. However, on most measures of health services use, the United States is not up to the mark.

Due to rising health care costs in the US, it has become nearly impossible to receive proper care without health insurance". 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Routine medical care in Mexico is inexpensive compared to the US, but a major medical incident could still rack up a big bill. So it seems the best plan is to cover routine care out-of-pocket and purchase catastrophic insurance (which is also cheap compare to the US).

Hospitals in most cities are modern, and many of the doctors have trained in the US.

From 2018:

"A recent study reported that a single day in a hospital in the U.S. costs around $1,514 while according to the World Health Organization the healthcare costs in Mexico are less than $120. A routine doctor’s visit in the U.S. costs around $176, whereas in Mexico the cost of routine doctor visits is less than half this rate at around $40.

The latest data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) shows that the United States spends much more on health care than any other country. However, on most measures of health services use, the United States is not up to the mark.

Due to rising health care costs in the US, it has become nearly impossible to receive proper care without health insurance". 

What your numbers show is that the problem isn't so much whether the healthcare is free but that the US healthcare industry is full of corruption. If other country's healthcare agencies had to pay those sort of rates and fee's, the taxes that support it would have to rise dramatically. Thinking maybe US residents should be fighting the powers that allow those sort of healthcare costs.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What your numbers show is that the problem isn't so much whether the healthcare is free but that the US healthcare industry is full of corruption. If other country's healthcare agencies had to pay those sort of rates and fee's, the taxes that support it would have to rise dramatically. Thinking maybe US residents should be fighting the powers that allow those sort of healthcare costs.

Both are important -- we need to fight corruption via government regulation and we also need a plan that doesn't leave anyone out who can't afford to pay. Powerful insurance companies and Big Pharma control the market too much, mainly.