Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

[Luna Bliss]

6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The individualists (aka conservatives) are likely just as interested in cheaper, more accessible healthcare as you are, so they aren't the one you need to fight.

So you think the Ultra-MAGA's are interested in helping the disenfranchised?  They are busily trying to ruin health insurance for their red states, not allowing Medicaid to expand in order to utilize federal benefits, and they seek to gut the Affordable Care Act which gives coverage to thousands who qualify. They don't want Medicare for all. On and on...

I think, really, you might be confusing the conservatives as they now exist here in the US (those who took over the party and pushed aside moderates who are sane like LittleMe and Lindal, for example) with conservatives in your country.  Try researching Christian Nationalism or Dominionism -- this is what we're up against.

[Rowan Amore]

33 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Even if one cannot easily become a citizen, once you get into the country, you actually can get many benefits even if you are here illegally

And if you come here illegally.and have a baby, your baby is an American citizen with all the benefits that entails.  Can people do that in other countries?  I've always wondered.  That all made perfect sense when our country was in need of people.  It isn't so anymore.  I'm a liberal but this is one issue I have a right leaning attitude on.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Much of that depends on where you live and how liberal your state/county/city is.  If you are illegal, come to Colorado.  You no longer have to prove legal status to get various medical benefits, as well as housing assistance, a driver license, or various professional licenses & certifications. I'm also pretty sure that our public education system is free to all, no matter one's immigration status.

They get more benefits than in the past, but not as much as legal immigrants. Don't you think that's a good thing though for someone like this:

"Olivia began babysitting as a teenager to earn extra money for her family. Now in her 30s, she recently earned an early childhood education credential and dreams of starting a licensed child care business in her home.

But that won’t happen under current Colorado law.

Olivia is an undocumented immigrant; she came to the U.S. at 10 years old and is now trying to become a citizen. She asked Colorado Public Radio News to only use her middle name out of fear her participation in a story could negatively affect her citizenship application. 

“We are people who are trying to do better,” she said. “We’re trying to do it right. If you only see it, like ‘it’s just a license….’ Oh no! It’s our future. It’s our little kids’ future.”

A provision in Colorado law bars undocumented immigrants from obtaining professional certification, the kind of documentation required for everyone from child care providers and dental hygienists to electricians and lawyers.

Some state lawmakers and immigrant rights activists think this is the year to remove that restriction. The same coalition is working to roll back a ban on cities and counties providing public benefits to people who are living in the state illegally". 

https://www.cpr.org/2021/02/22/colorados-undocumented-immigrants-have-been-shut-out-of-benefits-and-licensed-jobs-for-15-years-a-new-bill-would-change-that/

[Luna Bliss]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/07/this-65-year-old-retiree-just-moved-to-a-420-a-month-apartment-in-mexico-by-the-beach-see-photos.html

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Since we started out talking about people leaving, if anybody coming in wants my spot, by all means, I'll trade. 😊

[Luna Bliss]

I Invented Gilead. The Supreme Court Is Making It Real.
-----I thought I was writing fiction in The Handmaid’s Tale.
           By Margaret Atwood

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/supreme-court-roe-handmaids-tale-abortion-margaret-atwood/629833/

[Luna Bliss]

I thought it was interesting that when Margaret wrote the Handmaid's Tale she based it on some research into this extreme charismatic type of Catholicism that the Supreme Court justices adhere to -- not the exact one Amy Coney Barrett belongs to...but it was the only other charismatic Catholic sect where the women are also called 'handmaids' .

Edited May 13, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

31 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And if you come here illegally.and have a baby, your baby is an American citizen with all the benefits that entails.  Can people do that in other countries?  I've always wondered.  That all made perfect sense when our country was in need of people.  It isn't so anymore.  I'm a liberal but this is one issue I have a right leaning attitude on.

I don't know much about it, but found this:

"Almost all states in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania grant citizenship at birth based upon the principle of jus sanguinis ("right of blood"), in which citizenship is inherited through parents rather than birthplace, or a restricted version of jus soli in which citizenship by birthplace is automatic only for the ..."

 

* not sure if that applies to an illegal parent though...would like to know..

 

Jus soli - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't know much about it, but found this:

"Almost all states in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania grant citizenship at birth based upon the principle of jus sanguinis ("right of blood"), in which citizenship is inherited through parents rather than birthplace, or a restricted version of jus soli in which citizenship by birthplace is automatic only for the ..."

 

* not sure if that applies to an illegal parent though...would like to know..

 

Jus soli - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

 

 

Which to me means, if your parent is American and you're born in Mexico, you're an American citizen.  It should work that way here as well.  If your parent is an illegal Mexican immigrant and you are born here, you are Mexican and not automatically American.  It's a law that has outlived it's usefulness.  It's why many pregnant women come here.  We can't send a child back with it's illegal parent if they are a citizen.  Kind of a loophole that is taken advantage of.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Which to me means, if your parent is American and you're born in Mexico, you're an American citizen.  It should work that way here as well.  If your parent is an illegal Mexican immigrant and you are born here, you are Mexican and not automatically American.  It's a law that has outlived it's usefulness.  It's why many pregnant women come here.  We can't send a child back with it's illegal parent if they are a citizen.  Kind of a loophole that is taken advantage of.

Well, maybe, but I have sympathy for this Olivia woman described earlier.  I mean, she couldn't help it that her parents came here illegally. It feels like we'd be punishing her for something she didn't do to send her back, and it would be disastrous to jerk her from the only home/culture she's ever known.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Well, maybe, but I have sympathy for this Olivia woman described earlier.  I mean, she couldn't help it that her parents came here illegally. It feels like we'd be punishing her for something she didn't do to send her back, and it would be disastrous to jerk her from the only home/culture she's ever known.

She shouldn't have been allowed here to begin with unless her parents and her applied for citizenship from the start.  Sorry, I have little compassion for people who put their children into such a position.  Teach them to do things legally.  Like I've taught my son.  It's fine as long as you don't get caught isn't the way to go.  

You like researching.  Please list other countries who allow illegal immigrants as much freedom and freebies as we do here.  And when our actual citizens do without.  

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

She shouldn't have been allowed here to begin with unless her parents and her applied for citizenship from the start.  Sorry, I have little compassion for people who put their children into such a position.  Teach them to do things legally.  Like I've taught my son.  It's fine as long as you don't get caught isn't the way to go.  

You like researching.  Please list other countries who allow illegal immigrants as much freedom and freebies as we do here.  And when our actual citizens do without.  

I do feel bad, but the parents should have known better to not put her through this hell. If I were Olivia, I would be mad at my parents, for making me go through this. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, maybe, but I have sympathy for this Olivia woman described earlier.  I mean, she couldn't help it that her parents came here illegally. It feels like we'd be punishing her for something she didn't do to send her back, and it would be disastrous to jerk her from the only home/culture she's ever known.

She shouldn't have been allowed here to begin with unless her parents and her applied for citizenship from the start.  Sorry, I have little compassion for people who put their children into such a position.  Teach them to do things legally.  Like I've taught my son.  It's fine as long as you don't get caught isn't the way to go.  

You like researching.  Please list other countries who allow illegal immigrants as much freedom and freebies as we do here.  And when our actual citizens do without.  

Well, I do have respect for law...but maybe not always...lol

It's absolutely horrific what we did to Central America...we wrecked countries in that part of the world and made them unlivable...and the strife continues on to this day. So don't we owe these people something?

I would rather they come legally, but what if they were denied? This is where my compassion for them overrides law.

I don't know about other countries...I might research it...but I think it could be useless because you can't compare apples and oranges. We have to take into consideration the uniqueness of every country.

[Sammy Huntsman]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

She shouldn't have been allowed here to begin with unless her parents and her applied for citizenship from the start.  Sorry, I have little compassion for people who put their children into such a position.  Teach them to do things legally.  Like I've taught my son.  It's fine as long as you don't get caught isn't the way to go.  

You like researching.  Please list other countries who allow illegal immigrants as much freedom and freebies as we do here.  And when our actual citizens do without.  

I would be mad at my parents if they tried to give me a better life, and they did it in the wrong way. Which ultimately screwed me over as an adult. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would rather they come legally, but what if they were denied? This is where my compassion for them overrides law.

But I mean I do feel compassion but at the same time. It may screw up their kid's life in the future. Like it did with Olivia and now she has to pay and live through hell and fear after what her parents put on her. 

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I do feel bad, but the parents should have known better to not put her through this hell. If I were Olivia, I would be mad at my parents, for making me go through this. 

"Olivia" is often someone from Central America where, for some time, citizens were gunned down in the streets because the US interfered in their country and made it into a living hell. There was little food. So wouldn't living in the US be better for "Olivia" than a war-ravaged land? I'd think she'd be grateful toward her parents and not mad.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

"Olivia" is often someone from Central America where, for some time, citizens were gunned down in the streets because the US interfered in their country and made it into a living hell. There was little food. So wouldn't living in the US be better for "Olivia" than a war-ravaged land? I'd think she'd be grateful toward her parents and not mad.

Yeah, I would be grateful for having a better life, but I would also be a bit irritated and annoyed that my parents didn't come over legally. As the rights that a citizen has, I am not afforded as I am undocumented. I am not saying I am undocumented. I am just stepping in her shoes for a minute. 

 

[Rowan Amore]

And how many will be too many? It's great to have compassion.  I have it for American citizen, burdened under taxes that pay for government programs funding these illegal immigrants children.  School systems straining to pay for extra teachers to provide special classes for those children.  Their parents are not paying taxes.  They're working, for the most part, under the table jobs.  Tell me how that's fair or why I should feel sorry for them.

Anyway, I'm sure my opinion isn't popular but there it is.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

And how many will be too many? It's great to have compassion.  I have it for American citizen, burdened under taxes that pay for government programs funding these illegal immigrants children.  School systems straining to pay for extra teachers to provide special classes for those children.  Their parents are not paying taxes.  They're working, for the most part, under the table jobs.  Tell me how that's fair or why I should feel sorry for them.

Anyway, I'm sure my opinion isn't popular but there it is.

 

I mean I actually saw a video where if a person came to a border patrol agent, and asked to seek asylum in the country. The border patrol agents would assist the person to get it. 

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Tell me how that's fair or why I should feel sorry for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War

If we get riled up about "the welfare queen", a scenario deliberately perpetrated on sections of the public so they hate other sections of the public they feel cheated by.........well...it's an old trick.  Why fall for it?

Why not insist more of the non-discretionary spending the government either wastes or spends on less desirable causes be allotted for those whose homelands we devastated?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Sid Nagy]

I'm all for political asylum if someone has to flee their country.
Or in a war situation, like now in Ukraine.
But for people who try to come for economical reasons, there are rightfully so strict imigration rules IMHO.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean I actually saw a video where if a person came to a border patrol agent, and asked to seek asylum in the country. The border patrol agents would assist the person to get it. 

Uhhh

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-cell-where-a-sick-16-year-old-boy-died-in-border-patrol-care

[Luna Bliss]

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I'm all for political asylum if someone has to flee their country.
Or in a war situation, like now in Ukraine.
But for people who try to come for economical reasons, there are rightfully so strict imigration rules IMHO.

Well, maybe.

But it is morally right for 20% of the world's population to have 80% of the wealth -- and a lot of that wealth sucked from the very countries who have so much less.   If you think so, then why?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Rowan Amore]

I'm not talking about Salvadoran refugees.   I'm talking about Mexican citizens coming to the US illegally and taking from us while our own people suffer.  Refugees and people coming to take jobs from American citizens are 2 different things.  

You can debate what is morally right until the cows come home.  It doesn't negate the fact that illegal immigration is...illegal.