Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

As I mentioned too, many illegal immigrants work off the books so they aren't paying into anything.

A report from the office shows that 50% to 75% of undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes each year — and have been since the Internal Revenue Service created a program 25 years ago allowing people without a Social Security number to file taxes.

When it comes to state and local taxes, undocumented immigrants pay more than $11 billion a year, according to a 2017 report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a nonpartisan nonprofit based in Washington, D.C. In Ohio, they paid $83.2 million in state and local taxes in 2017, according to the institute.

"When you hear people who are citizens — who may be against immigration or immigrants, especially undocumented — say, 'Oh, they're here and sucking up all the government resources and taking handouts and welfare.' That's not the case," said Jessica Rodriguez Bell, a Columbus immigration attorney who has undocumented clients.

"These people are not eligible for those benefits, and many times they're paying into the system like we are. It's frustrating to hear that a lot."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/03/15/undocumented-ohio-immigrants-taxes-no-benefits/4628218001/

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A report from the office shows that 50% to 75% of undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes each year — and have been since the Internal Revenue Service created a program 25 years ago allowing people without a Social Security number to file taxes.

When it comes to state and local taxes, undocumented immigrants pay more than $11 billion a year, according to a 2017 report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a nonpartisan nonprofit based in Washington, D.C. In Ohio, they paid $83.2 million in state and local taxes in 2017, according to the institute.

"When you hear people who are citizens — who may be against immigration or immigrants, especially undocumented — say, 'Oh, they're here and sucking up all the government resources and taking handouts and welfare.' That's not the case," said Jessica Rodriguez Bell, a Columbus immigration attorney who has undocumented clients.

"These people are not eligible for those benefits, and many times they're paying into the system like we are. It's frustrating to hear that a lot."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/03/15/undocumented-ohio-immigrants-taxes-no-benefits/4628218001/

What about all the undocumented immigrants that can't be included in those stats because...they are undocumented.  Meaning not on the books anywhere.  Technically, they aren't even supposed to be working...at all.  I guess the "I didn't know they were illegal" defense works?

Under the United States Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, it is unlawful for an employer to knowingly hire someone that is unauthorized to work in the U.S. So while you are still entitled to workers’ comp benefits as an injured worker, you may be denied continued employment. And any worker who used false documents in order to obtain employment may be fined and prosecuted.

[Luna Bliss]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

11 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

It may be illegal, but is it immoral?

By the definition of immoral, yes.

Immoral...deliberately violating accepted principles of right and wrong.  Something deemed illegal is wrong in the eyes of the law.

The eyes of the law are sometimes wrong though. Take for example the new laws in Texas, soon to spread elsewhere, which deputizes citizens as vigilantes who can sue anyone aiding a woman seeking an abortion.  How would you reconcile this to your morals?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A report from the office shows that 50% to 75% of undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes each year — and have been since the Internal Revenue Service created a program 25 years ago allowing people without a Social Security number to file taxes.

When it comes to state and local taxes, undocumented immigrants pay more than $11 billion a year, according to a 2017 report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a nonpartisan nonprofit based in Washington, D.C. In Ohio, they paid $83.2 million in state and local taxes in 2017, according to the institute.

"When you hear people who are citizens — who may be against immigration or immigrants, especially undocumented — say, 'Oh, they're here and sucking up all the government resources and taking handouts and welfare.' That's not the case," said Jessica Rodriguez Bell, a Columbus immigration attorney who has undocumented clients.

"These people are not eligible for those benefits, and many times they're paying into the system like we are. It's frustrating to hear that a lot."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/03/15/undocumented-ohio-immigrants-taxes-no-benefits/4628218001/

Expand  

What about all the undocumented immigrants that can't be included in those stats because...they are undocumented.  Meaning not on the books anywhere.  Technically, they aren't even supposed to be working...at all.  I guess the "I didn't know they were illegal" defense works?

Under the United States Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, it is unlawful for an employer to knowingly hire someone that is unauthorized to work in the U.S. So while you are still entitled to workers’ comp benefits as an injured worker, you may be denied continued employment. And any worker who used false documents in order to obtain employment may be fined and prosecuted.

It appears the law in this case is a kind of superficial front, applied when it serves certain people, and ignored in other cases. The allowance of tax payments by undocumented workers, and allowing them to report employers who aren't paying them decently, shows that this law is a superficial front.

That's why I don't always see the law as absolute 'truth' that must be followed -- it's often much more complicated.

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The eyes of the law are sometimes wrong though. Take for example the new laws in Texas, soon to spread elsewhere, which deputize citizens as vigilantes who can sue anyone aiding a woman seeking an abortion.  How would you reconcile this to your morals?

Not the debate here but typical.  Have a great day.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Sooo, who has more fun expat stories to share?

 

Peeking around, I found these fairly recent expat interviews that seem pretty interesting

https://www.spendlifetraveling.com/category/ask-an-expat/

[Finite]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Except when they give birth to children here.  Those children then receive benefits because they are automatically citizens.  THIS was my issue to begin with in this debate.  As I mentioned too, many illegal immigrants work off the books so they aren't paying into anything.

Many sure, most don’t work off the books or under the table. Who is to say they arent filing on their own regardless ? This seems to be an assumption not really based on facts. Many legal citizens also work off the books as well. For the most part it not illegal to work under the table as you can still report your income. It’s more illegal for employers to pay under the table than it is for a person to work under the table.

Also illegal immigrants make up 3% of the US population and 20% of the immigrant population. They are not 20% of the US population. Immigration as a whole, illegal and legal combined is about 14% of the population.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Finite

[LittleMe Jewell]

Talking to very liberal people about illegal immigration is about the same  as talking to very conservative people about abortion.  They both are 100% convinced that they are right and absolutely nothing will change their mind or even get them to budge an inch on the topic.

[Finite]

16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Talking to very liberal people about illegal immigration is about the same  as talking to very conservative people about abortion.  They both are 100% convinced that they are right and absolutely nothing will change their mind or even get them to budge an inch on the topic.

Welcome to an open discussion forum where people can debate (try to convince each other they are right) things. You must be new here. Oh wait….

[Rowan Amore]

Numbers are difficult to come by, but the Center for Immigration Studies estimates that 55 percent to 60 percent of illegal immigrants are working on the books, which means their taxes are being paid — though they are credited to bogus or stolen Social Security numbers.

So, some are using bogus SS accounts to pay taxes.  The other 45% aren't paying at all.  Seems fair.

[Rowan Amore]

23 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Talking to very liberal people about illegal immigration is about the same  as talking to very conservative people about abortion.  They both are 100% convinced that they are right and absolutely nothing will change their mind or even get them to budge an inch on the topic.

I'm about as liberal as they come.  Some issues, however,  not so much.  This is one of them.

[Finite]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Numbers are difficult to come by, but the Center for Immigration Studies estimates that 55 percent to 60 percent of illegal immigrants are working on the books, which means their taxes are being paid — though they are credited to bogus or stolen Social Security numbers.

So, some are using bogus SS accounts to pay taxes.  The other 45% aren't paying at all.  Seems fair.

Some also complete form W-7 and file their taxes with form 1040-NR. But sure let’s go with bogus or stolen SSNs.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Finite

[victoravatar]

Never been there. I would love to visit one day.

I live in Europe

English is not my first language

 

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Finite said:

Some also complete form W-7 and file their taxes with form 1040-NR. But sure let’s go with bogus or stolen SSNs.

Just stating facts you asked for.

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Just stating facts you asked for.

I appreciate it and I just responded with facts. I hope we all have a pleasant and factual day now since we got that out of the way.

[Rowan Amore]

Some...

[LittleMe Jewell]

50 minutes ago, Finite said:

Welcome to an open discussion forum where people can debate (try to convince each other they are right) things.

Some topics can be debated with a chance of actually changing someone's mind. 

Whereas, for some topics, it is highly unlikely that minds will ever be changed, no matter what is said or what information is provided.

Edited May 14, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Quistess Alpha]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Whereas, for some topics, it is highly unlikely that minds will ever be changed, no matter what is said or what information is provided.

Indeed, especially when it comes to moral questions, unless the framework you're arguing under is well established, and all parties to the debate accept the framework, (or agree to argue with respect to it for the sake of debate) the discussion really can't lead to anything of value, other than tacitly asserting one's own moral framework as the "correct" one.

[Luna Bliss]

29 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

1 hour ago, Finite said:

Welcome to an open discussion forum where people can debate (try to convince each other they are right) things.

Some topics can be debated with a chance of actually changing someone's mind. 

Whereas, for some topics, it is highly unlikely that minds will ever be changed, no matter what is said or what information is provided.

You're right, no minds can be changed if you insist on black & white thinking where issues are either 'all bad' or 'all good', and you believe that myself, and some others, pointing out that it is not 'all bad' automatically means we think undocumented immigrants are 'all good'.
But I've never said anything of the kind.

I have pointed out nuances in the issue -- undocumented immigrants are not 'all bad' for the country, nor are they 'all good'.
It's not my fault if you can't seem to comprehend nuance and complexity, even after facts are presented with many links that did not fit your narrative.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Hey @Luna Bliss, I was poking around on the r/DigitalNomad subreddit earlier and saw this resource link on the sidebar. I haven't yet researched any of the remote work visas mentioned on this page, but there are a LOT more of them than I realized. Might be useful for you, too (of course, check the official gov sites for details, but still...this isn't a bad starting point):

https://wherecani.live/blog/view/best-remote-work-visa-countries/

 

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Sooo, who has more fun expat stories to share?

 

Peeking around, I found these fairly recent expat interviews that seem pretty interesting

https://www.spendlifetraveling.com/category/ask-an-expat/

She is quite the adventurer!

I'm a little depressed now about moving to my choice spot, as researching immigration issues made me more aware of the chaos not far from my ideal spot in southern Mexico. South of southern Mexico in the Northern Triangle countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras it's really bad, due to our influence there in the 80's as well as drought brought on by climate change. So many are migrating north through Mexico and into the US. Biden is trying to shore up resources there so they are less likely to leave however, so there might be hope in the future. But is moving closer to the equator with the world heating up a good idea is what I'm contemplating, even though I would be in a mountainous spot at a much higher elevation.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Hey @Luna Bliss, I was poking around on the r/DigitalNomad subreddit earlier and saw this resource link on the sidebar. I haven't yet researched any of the remote work visas mentioned on this page, but there are a LOT more of them than I realized. Might be useful for you, too (of course, check the official gov sites for details, but still...this isn't a bad starting point):

https://wherecani.live/blog/view/best-remote-work-visa-countries/

 

Thanks!  So if you could move anywhere where would it be?  Top 3 choices...

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

She is quite the adventurer!

I'm a little depressed now about moving to my choice spot, as researching immigration issues made me more aware of the chaos not far from my ideal spot in southern Mexico. South of southern Mexico in the Northern Triangle countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras it's really bad, due to our influence there in the 80's as well as drought brought on by climate change. So many are migrating north through Mexico and into the US. Biden is trying to shore up resources there so they are less likely to leave however, so there might be hope in the future. But is moving closer to the equator with the world heating up a good idea is what I'm contemplating, even though I would be in a mountainous spot at a much higher elevation.

That's a reasonable concern for sure. There are a LOT of articles around the innerwebz about people who relocated/are relocating to Mexico, if you want to read some first-hand experiences and see what conditions are really like (might be YouTube videos, too, now that I think about it). Personally, Mexico is just not on my radar. Not really sure why. Just not really feeling it.

 

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Thanks!  So if you could move anywhere where would it be?  Top 3 choices...

Welcome! And oh gosh, I don't even know. There's just so much research involved in finding somewhere that'd work for me. I need to dedicate some time to really going through some places to see what's what, but so far, I have looked a *little* into Panama and liked what I saw, and I keep seeing blogs about relocating to Ghana, so now I'm curious to see what that's about. Africa in general is a really interesting option, but that would require sooooo much research as I've never even stepped foot on that continent before. Annnnd, my college roommate absolutely swore to the heavens that I would fall deeply in love with Dubai, but THAT is like...yeah only if I hit a lotto jackpot or two or married a billionaire, LOL. 

I don't really have a top three. Much of my thinking is "where can I live in freaking peace?" and I just kind of take things from there. Islands are another option - the slower pace on some of them is appealing. My brother swears by Trinidad, and I've been there and yeah it's really nice - he had trouble making it a permanent move, though (due to work visas, as usual), so that might be a bit of a struggle as well.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

1. Bailiwick of Jersey

2. Gibraltar

3. Cornwall

Edited May 14, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

1. Bailiwick of Jersey

2. Gibraltar

3. Cornwall

4. Duchy of Grand Fenwick

5. Pimlico

(I was force fed British comedy as a child.)