If people want privacy so bad they put up ban lines...

[Paul Hexem]

43 minutes ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

I take the view that the Lindens built the roads for people to travel along, whether on foot or by pod or in their own vehicle, and that if you've chosen to buy or rent a roadside parcel you've done so either because you want passing traffic (you're a shop, or an art exhibit, or a GTFO hub) or because you're a road user yourself (and therefore know that lag exists and crashes happen).

That should really be the crux of the issue.

If you don't want visitors, why would you choose a location that's almost certainly going to have visitors?

[Setsuki Takeda]

Just due to the size I think it would be pretty much impossible to add any rules for building outside of Bellesaria, which has a very reasonable covenant (for a residential area, at least) that adds to the ability of people to navigate the area, though seeing the same six houses over and over ad infinitum makes for a very boring drive especially when most people seem to build in skyboxes rather than decorate their homes.

 

I like the Mainland ability to add some DFS vendors on a little cart by the side of the road, have a pair of wolves in my yard pumping out little Amaretto K9s, and grow plants that I toss into fermenters to make wine. If you keep the scripted things to a reasonable level it doesn't lag things, though it seems most who do "breedables" or some form of farming toss out massive poorly arranged operations that are designed to generate L$ rather than actually enjoy the system, why so many private regions have them banned (or severely limited) via covenant. Even some sims specifically *for* scripted content are very restrictive in "You can only use *our* lag generators!" like the DFS sims stipulating that *only* DFS plants (read no BeYou or XeoLife or whatever) and animals (read no Amaretto, and I think even Teeglepets are banned for rezzing there, or whatever-else) are allowed to be rezzed.

I can also put up an omikuji donation box at my shrine so people can "buy" a fortune by dropping L$ into it, which helps to add to the build since I'm still pretty new and while I have most of the buildings I need I still have a long way to go on the plants and decor to make a fully finished location.

There are benefits to the free-for-all for everyone as well as the land owners, like a private home can have a holovendor in a skybox above it to rez out demos for in-world sales and even if the maker is no longer active you can still *see* items you are interested in before buying which isn't possible with only MP listings.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

55 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

That should really be the crux of the issue.

If you don't want visitors, why would you choose a location that's almost certainly going to have visitors?

The cool thing about SL is, you don't have to justify what you like to anyone else. If people like to live near roads, for whatever reason, it's their right to do so, and it is also their right to use orbs or ban lines... again, for whatever reason, or no reason at all. They don't owe an explanation to anyone. 

The real issue is the inability of travelers to stay on the roads in the first place. If you don't drive into someone's yard, you don't hit their ban lines or orbs. So, if lag and region crossings are making you lose control of your vehicle, maybe you need to invest in a better vehicle, maybe you need to practice driving more, maybe you need to slow down, maybe you need to complain to LL about the region crossings.... there are many options that make a lot more sense than blaming the land owners because you bounce when you drive into their yard. After all, you drove into their yard, they didn't run into the road and snatch your car onto the front lawn. 

But the judging of land owners will continue, and land owners will be understandably unpersuaded by said judging to make an effort to accommodate your entertainment by denying themselves what they want from their own SL. There's a saying out there about catching more flies with honey.... *shrug* 

[Paul Hexem]

21 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

The cool thing about SL is, you don't have to justify what you like to anyone else. If people like to live near roads, for whatever reason, it's their right to do so, and it is also their right to use orbs or ban lines... again, for whatever reason, or no reason at all. They don't owe an explanation to anyone. 

That's absolutely true.

It's also everyone else's right to wonder why they'd do that.

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

If you don't want visitors, why would you choose a location that's almost certainly going to have visitors?

i had a land in Zindra a while ago.  I thought I don't really want any random visitors so I made a skybox.  Wrong!  I got more random visitors up there dropping in on top of head than I ever did on the ground. And I am like really! really people!

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

i had a land in Zindra a while ago.  I thought I don't really want any random visitors so I made a skybox.  Wrong!  I got more random visitors up there dropping in on top of head than I ever did on the ground. And I am like really! really people!

 

Yeah, a *lot* of "teleport to avatar" going on in "adult" regions.

[Rowan Amore]

8 hours ago, NanashiNyx said:

Yeah, a *lot* of "teleport to avatar" going on in "adult" regions.

It was actually what happened recently on Horizons which is adult residential.  Someone tped into my skybox.  So you're saying I should expect asshattery since I live on adult mainland?  

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

It was actually what happened recently on Horizons which is adult residential.  Someone tped into my skybox.  So you're saying I should expect asshattery since I live on adult mainland?  

 

Isn't "adult" in Second Life synonymous with ashattery?

[Rowan Amore]

33 minutes ago, NanashiNyx said:

Isn't "adult" in Second Life synonymous with ashattery?

Not in my neighborhood.  I've been there almost 2 years with barely any issues.  People are just as likely to TP to avatar in General or Moderate regions.  

[Cali Souther]

15 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i had a land in Zindra a while ago.  I thought I don't really want any random visitors so I made a skybox.  Wrong!  I got more random visitors up there dropping in on top of head than I ever did on the ground. And I am like really! really people!

 

See,  now I find that odd and maybe a bit rude.   Wouldn't they have to go out of their way to invade your privacy up there?

I see both sides of the issue,  when it comes to roads, water ways and flying around mainland ... but the sky?   Unless their land is right next to yours,   I can't think of an excuse to be flying around 2000 feet in the air.  

[Setsuki Takeda]

41 minutes ago, Cali Souther said:

See,  now I find that odd and maybe a bit rude.   Wouldn't they have to go out of their way to invade your privacy up there?

I see both sides of the issue,  when it comes to roads, water ways and flying around mainland ... but the sky?   Unless their land is right next to yours,   I can't think of an excuse to be flying around 2000 feet in the air.  

I have a M area, with all PG stuff in it, and you still get a random guy who decides to cam in and sit through your walls on your furniture then get huffy because it's all single sits with a few cuddles instead of sex stuff.

 

Actually met a neighbor that way, cammed after him when I kicked the guy, and he teleported to her in a skybox at the edge of the next region over. Sent her an IM asking if he was her guest and just found the wrong building, or if that was as completely random for her.

[Cali Souther]

8 minutes ago, NanashiNyx said:

I have a M area, with all PG stuff in it, and you still get a random guy who decides to cam in and sit through your walls on your furniture then get huffy because it's all single sits with a few cuddles instead of sex stuff.

 

Actually met a neighbor that way, cammed after him when I kicked the guy, and he teleported to her in a skybox at the edge of the next region over. Sent her an IM asking if he was her guest and just found the wrong building, or if that was as completely random for her.

When I first started in SL,   I accepted TP's without knowing who or where...    I learned quickly where that usually led.   It takes all kinds,  as they say,  but some people really make ya wonder.   

I was also a lot more concerned with privacy back when I first started.   I would cover my windows so no one could see me changing clothes,  and then I learned how easy it is to cam inside anyone's house and the illusion of privacy didn't mean much anymore.

Now,  when I enter a club / large gathering - everyone is basically naked for the first 40 seconds+  ....   so,  there doesn't seem to be a reason to worry about it so much.   It is what it is.

Now, I change clothes in my house with the windows open -- it's not like I have something special to look at.  LOL

[Setsuki Takeda]

5 hours ago, Cali Souther said:

it's not like I have something special to look at.  LOL

Yeah, we all have mostly the same general bodies, though the accent layers and imperfections some of us add give them character most seem to neglect in favor of boobs they could float away with or (sometimes and) a third leg they don't know how to tuck into their trousers.

[Mollymews]

5 hours ago, Cali Souther said:

I was also a lot more concerned with privacy back when I first started.   I would cover my windows so no one could see me changing clothes,  and then I learned how easy it is to cam inside anyone's house and the illusion of privacy didn't mean much anymore.

Now,  when I enter a club / large gathering - everyone is basically naked for the first 40 seconds+  ....   so,  there doesn't seem to be a reason to worry about it so much.   It is what it is

i have always thought of this more as a matter of modesty than privacy

parcel visibility was introduced when the olde Linden Homes were first built.  Stops people outside your starter home cam peeping you when getting changed

most people wore layer clothes in the olde days as well when out and about in public.  Then mesh bodies came and Linden eventually arrived at a technical fix for this - BoM - which also catered (in the same way layers did before mesh) for the modest people, of which there as many as there has always been

ps add. I do agree with you tho that the longer we stay and play on SL the more we become less concerned about things that can cause us discomfit in RL

Edited March 15, 2022 by Mollymews

[Maitimo]

Here's a radical idea that would keep just about everyone happy.

Above a certain altitude (let's arbitrarily say 2500m or 3000m or something like that) all resident-owned parcels - not Linden owned protected land or abandoned land - are effectively private access only by default. Owners, group and whitelisted guests only. No other access, no ability to cam across parcel borders, no cross-border local chat. Land owners can turn it off if they want to, but by default, it's on for everyone.

Below that altitude - no banlines, no orbs allowed, nada.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Maitimo

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Not everyone wants to live in a skybox, though. It makes more sense to me that people just be happy with staying on public land and/or land that they are actually paying for. 

[Elise Fugazi]

4 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Not everyone wants to live in a skybox, though. It makes more sense to me that people just be happy with staying on public land and/or land that they are actually paying for. 

I absolutely enjoy being on ground level and there is something really nice about seeing all the activity - cars passing by, avis walking about and etc. Both of my mainland homes are roadside (Route 8 & 9A)

I have from time to time IM'd landowners about their orbs TPing back to home (when I fly or drive) and have asked if they might consider changing it to a 10 second warning and honestly most people are pretty friendly and understanding. Also I let them know it is their land and they can do as they wish.

[Mollymews]

\o/ some good news for vehicle owners and parcel owners living next to the public right-of-ways

Inara's report on this week's SUG meeting includes this: 

Quote

Feature request BUG-231802 “Prevent vehicles from entering parcels their riders cannot access” has been accepted, but no ETA on implementation.

is what happens when make it so that people don't crash hardly ever on region crossings anymore.  People start driving round all over the place expecting other things vehicle to be fixed as well, like they got nothing better else to do. Blinking people !!!

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:17 PM, diamond Marchant said:

A most inconsiderate use of banlines occurs then they are placed in an otherwise navigable waterway without any visual clues as to their presence. In the examples below, the banlines border Linden protected water.

This. Hate this so much. I am always wary of good land deals that look like they attach to Linden waters, and carefully fly around the supposedly open routes looking for use these things. Cutting off access to sailing water without leaving even a small passage for average sized watercraft is about as rude as it gets, in my mind.

[Marisa Starbrook]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:13 PM, Rowan Amore said:

You want community, move to Belli.  But I hear they allow security orbs.

Don't care to know my neighbors, don't want to be part of the community, couldn't care less about any 'relationship' with either.  There's road and sidewalk and an easement area on 2 sides of my property as well as 60 sec to get your act together if you should wander in unexpectedly.  If I'm feeling social, I go somewhere else.  

 

I have encountered obnoxious security orbs in Belli. They aren't the ones that are provided with the Linden homes. They extend into nearby parcels or into the public roadway. One was in a houseboat area, four houseboats away from where my alt had her houseboat. The message kept coming through to vacate the area whenever I landed on the alt's houseboat.  It took me awhile to find it, so I could block it and AR it. That seemed pretty anti-social to me. By the way, I am an introvert that doesn't use security orbs. I expect people to be sitting on my furniture or adjusting the settings on the firepit when I'm not at home.

[56 Zenoria]

Why does there have to be ban lines? If you can't enter because it's closed that should be good enough. When I walk anywhere close to a side of MY land I get those UGLY ban lines to look at. Can't they be done away with?

[Mollymews]

24 minutes ago, 56 Zenoria said:

When I walk anywhere close to a side of MY land I get those UGLY ban lines to look at. Can't they be done away with?

in the Linden viewer. Turn the ban lines display On/Off with

menu: World \ Show \ Ban Lines

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

Just remember that if you actually go places you need to see them to have any chance (with them off you can slam into them in the middle of a sim, not just on region crossings where loading is slow and response time is cut significantly) of not slamming into nothing.

[Rowan Amore]

But no worries, it doesn't actually hurt when you slam into them.

[diamond Marchant]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:16 PM, 56 Zenoria said:

Why does there have to be ban lines?

To evaluate banlines, one must make assumptions about what problem is being solved. I suggest there are two such problems and both concern privacy.

1. How do I keep others from seeing my avatar and my stuff?
2. How do I keep others out of my parcel?

Banlines address the "seeing" problem only partially. Anyone can cam into your parcel and look at your things. The only way to deny your objects from prying eyes is to control a region that has no neighboring regions. As for avatars, you can check a box that prevents others from seeing you unless they are on the same parcel. A general banline is limited in altitude, so a peeper can fly over your parcel to spy. However, you can ban individuals and this applies at all altitudes, denying them a fly over. The Linden Homes security HUD has an option that alerts you to peepers hovering around skyboxes.

Banlines do better with the "keep out" problem. General banlines keep others out of your parcel at ground level up to the altitude limit. Banning individuals keep them out at all altitudes.

But is there a better alternative? I think if we eliminate general banlines, keep individual banlines, and use orbs with 15 sec minimum times... all would be well. Water, road, and air traffic can deal with orbs set to reasonable times. Additionally, orbs solve the "keep out" problem almost as well as general banlines with minimal impact to innocent travelers. Problem peepers can be banned individually. Also, auto-banning by orbs should be frowned upon because the innocent can be unfairly targeted.

In other words, the Linden Homes banline policy should be extended to mainland 🙂