Saturation -- Too many events -- Survey of sorts

[Persephone Emerald]

I'm curious what it costs a store to be in a Shop and Hop event. Is it less expensive than other events because it's sponsored by Linden Lab? I've noticed some top stores have been absent from some of the Shop and Hop events, so they must not need the exposure that much, yet one of these stores is still very active in the FLF & weekend sales.

I used to love the Fifty Linden Friday sales and would make a point of hitting all the stores on the list before going to work. Lately I just do the Shop and Hops, some anniversary events, and an occasional interesting themed event. With over 13 years in SL and over 75, 000 items in my inventory (many still unpacked), there is very little that I actually need to buy. I mostly go to grab the gifts, then buy a couple items that grab my interest. If it weren't for updating my avatar every few years with a new mesh body or head, I would buy hardly anything. Now that I'm wearing a LeLutka Evo X head though, I'm looking for new skins, makeup, and even fingernail polish to spruce up my look. It's annoying to have to sort through and toss out old skins and makeup, but if this keeps the SL economy going, I'm all for it.

What we need are more specialized themed events, like We ❤️ Roleplay and those for specific body-types and aesthetics. I'd like to see an event for Classy / Sophisticated looks, more for Sci-fi and Post-Apocalyptic themes, and more for different time periods. I have plenty of clothes for regular wear, but I can always use a few things for visiting different RP sims.

[Arielle Popstar]

53 minutes ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

I just object to the deluge of this style.  I have the money to spend, and I'd love to see new designers pop up, but most of the more recent original mesh stores cater to this aesthetic.   I see some really cute things at a certain feline-themed clothing store, for example, but then the crotch or boobs are on full display.  I love cute things, but not things that would get me arrested if I wore them in public in real life.   I just kind of rue the day that someone thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be a good idea if we never zipped up our pants/shorts again?".  

It would be interesting to see some numbers on how many people in SL engage in sex work vs how many just wear that type of clothing for shiz & giggles.  Stores/events wouldn't offer these items if they didn't sell. 

Just because it is for sale, does not mean it is purchased. Just because it is purchased, does not mean it is worn in public. Just because it is worn in public, does not mean it will be worn again. People's fashions evolve and these sorts of outfits are often no more then a phase which at any point in time there are quite a few going through that particular one. One thing I do notice is that many of the fashions you are probably meaning are worn more in Flickr photo shoots more then in actual public clubs.

[JeromFranzic]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:08 PM, Lysistrata Szapira said:

I prefer events that only allow new, original mesh items.  Call me a snob.  There is so much template crap in SL now, and so many events allow it.  The only reason I would pay lindens for a template item would be if they offer an extensive color HUD/excellent texturing.   I just can't praise things that came straight out of the template box using the same original files, and I laugh when these stores call themselves "couture" or "So & So Designs" when they used such minimal effort that they shouldn't even be called designs.  It would be ok if people started with templates to learn the texturing process, but sooner or later they should learn to mesh or pay someone to mesh. 

FLF and C88 are two I almost always check on because they usually have some of my favorite stores.  FLF has slipped a little bit in recent months with who/what they allow in, but C88 seems to be holding on (although getting some stores to stay on theme seems to be an ongoing issue).  I can occasionally find things on the Saturday Sale and Happy Weekend. Kustom9 is still pretty good.   I have a pretty set-in-stone list of stores from these events that I look at while I ignore the template stores.  I bought several things at CozyFest over the weekend (yay for quality 50L things).

I guess it's best not to name and shame stores here, but certain events keyed into certain looks ("thicc" or teeny bodies or caricatures especially) are not my jam.  I am not into that aesthetic, but maybe it helps those who wear those bodies find stores that do cater to them?  I do find it a shame that stores in the aforementioned "thicc" event seem to think that female avatars with those bodies only want to walk around with boobs hanging out and in labia floss or unzipped bottoms.   If I wanted a plump look, I wouldn't want the streetwalker chic look that is popular right now.  I also didn't like the invisible pony rider look from back in the day. 

I still look at Seraphim because I don't have time to monitor Flickr for new releases and sales, but I ignore about 75% of Seraphim's postings for events because I know which ones are basically all templates all the time now. 

 

 

 

 

I hear you on the "thicc" point. It's so hard to find suits and more modest clothing right now for some of the curvier shapes I use. I don't have Kupra or any similar body so it's not a huge issue but still... when I try suits sometimes on my alt who primarily runs around on a Belleza Freya I have to alpha the dickens out of her to make it work... and sometimes it doesn't so I'm forced to whip out the Maitreya compatible Lucybody Atenea instead.  

As it is, I tend to shop more via the MP, and only visit a store in world if the demo is exclusively there.

[Annie Nova]

I used to shop all the events until I started seeing the same thing over and over again. Now, sometimes, not always will check Seraphim and browse through but nine times out of ten, there isn't anything I would want to spend my lindens on. It's the same thing all the time and it gets boring, plus, searching for things that are made for Maitreya Petite is exhausting. Now, I mainly just shop my favorite stores and even those, have the same tired old things. Jeans and skimpy tops. Whatever happened to cute little sundresses and dresses that don't show all your naughty bits???

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

I focus on a few themed yearly events (and a couple of hunts that actually have people doing them). Fantasy Faire alone pays for most of my yearly expenses, so I don't technically need to do much after that. The monthly events look exhausting to take part in and I don't visit them often unless someone points me to a specific item.

One issue is merchants feel they must do these events, even to the point of making a big loss overall. Being told to stop taking part in events that don't make money shouldn't be a revelation, but apparently it is.

I'm glad you mention Fantasy Faire -- I'm amazed when I find some of the best content creators in SL don't participate in FF. When I talk to them, they tell them that they believe you must be invited. But that's not true, they have an open admissions system on Google docs. To be sure, it helps to be in a group of past Faire-goers to get this news, but it's not hidden, you can watch for their blog. Next, they say that the booth fee will be too high. But unlike so many other events, that fee is publicized -- I recall it was $2500 for the smallest store, which I opted for.

I have been in FF twice, as an amateur creator who buys models and textures (which they allow, unlike other events which discriminate against all but original mesh creators). The first time was a real struggle, but I still made back the booth fee. The second year, I was more organized and perhaps a bit more skillful but I'm never going to get beyond the amateur status, and that's ok with me. I was able to make back the booth fee and the cost of the models and textures. The challenge was to make back the upload fees. The second year I had 1,700 uploads in those two months, many of them related to FF or advertising FF, although some of it went to my regular rentals. And there, I could only reduce that crazy number by being actually skilled so that I don't have to try something 10 times to get it to fit. Sure, I could go on that server where you have an endless wallet and essentially upload for free, but it was broken for a time plus I'm too lazy or busy to go do the things to get into it. 

I was recently talking to someone who is very prominent but reluctant to go to FF although perfect for it. Why? The booth fee is too high. Well, it isn't, really, and if I can make it back, you can. It's laggy and crowded. OK, that kept me from going to FF for some years, actually, and in earlier years, the content wasn't as compelling. Well, you don't have to suffer lag -- you lay out your store before it opens and go home and it's your customers that have lag. I actually brave the lag to go to all the activities -- it's the premiere event of the year. I'm not certain I can muster the strength to do it again this year, but if you are a top creator in the fantasy realm OF COURSE you should go to it. 

And in a sense I find that some people make excuses for anything you suggest. And I am this way myself for example in refusing to use the monopolist web-based rental payment systems which would save time if not money. And it's hard for people in some situations to muster the energy and will to take the first step out of their comfort zone, to pay the booth fee US $10 which might be a day or more of groceries in their country. Basically, the direction of the Faire has more and more become about fund-raising to fight cancer, and that's fine, there's certainly people struggling with this disease themselves or in their family and it's a worthy cause. So it's not an opportunity to try to raise money for starving artists or figure out how to give stipends for booth fees as they are trying to raise money for another cause -- cancer. Maybe someone will have to develop an event to help starving artists. But oh, no, another event??? The art world has an event several times every day!

I have been in three merchant events, some even advertised on Seraphim. I did it mainly to understand how this world works. And I have to say it is a stressful, exhausting, and expensive exercise, with diminishing returns. I have seen the event planners of even very creative and thoughtful events that avoided all the tackiness of the event world get burned out and quit -- they have to bark deadlines into the group chat for weeks trying to get people to do things on time and correctly -- it's wearisome. Then there are the bloggers who come and simply steal all the free samples and never blog; the chasing after bloggers who work for free and understandably don't feel they owe the world much after getting items they don't even ever use again when the blogging is finished, etc. The blogging world is utterly corrupt and doesn't deserve the word "blog," as in something related to news media and gathering and publishing information; it's an ad agency activity and should be called that and compensated properly. Except with what funds? Merchants are all growing more poor.

Today I watched about half a million appear on the sell side on the LindEx, and disappear as it was sold to buyers, meaning someone cashed that out. Or Supply Linden injected it into the LindEx to keep the rate roughly the same as it was stuck with high numbers around 241 again. But I do wonder if there is an inherent hard stop in a virtual world economy because nothing in it is really necessary, i.e. no food, clothing or shelter is actually required to live real life. It's all decoration and self-expression, and at the end of the day, even narcissists tire of this.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Persephone Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

...I have been in three merchant events, some even advertised on Seraphim. I did it mainly to understand how this world works. And I have to say it is a stressful, exhausting, and expensive exercise, with diminishing returns. I have seen the event planners of even very creative and thoughtful events that avoided all the tackiness of the event world get burned out and quit -- they have to bark deadlines into the group chat for weeks trying to get people to do things on time and correctly -- it's wearisome. Then there are the bloggers who come and simply steal all the free samples and never blog; the chasing after bloggers who work for free and understandably don't feel they owe the world much after getting items they don't even ever use again when the blogging is finished, etc. The blogging world is utterly corrupt and doesn't deserve the word "blog," as in something related to news media and gathering and publishing information; it's an ad agency activity and should be called that and compensated properly. Except with what funds? Merchants are all growing more poor.

Today I watched about half a million appear on the sell side on the LindEx, and disappear as it was sold to buyers, meaning someone cashed that out. Or Supply Linden injected it into the LindEx to keep the rate roughly the same as it was stuck with high numbers around 241 again. But I do wonder if there is an inherent hard stop in a virtual world economy because nothing in it is really necessary, i.e. no food, clothing or shelter is actually required to live real life. It's all decoration and self-expression, and at the end of the day, even narcissists tire of this.

 

Nothing is really "necessary" in SL, and yet it must be necessary because we keep coming back here. 

It's not the food, shelter and clothing that we need in RL, and which we spend real money on to survive in RL. It must be that we need an ineffable something from here that feeds our minds and souls.

[Prokofy Neva]

7 hours ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

And lo and behold, yet another event is born per Seraphim this morning: Dollholic. Again, not an aesthetic for me.  More exposed pubic hair, labia floss, and bbygrl/hooker chic. *sighs*

Sex must sell in SL, but it seems like this aesthetic is going to reach oversaturation at some point.  Judging by the amount of items for this population, does a majority of SL female residents work in the sex trade? 

 

I find it creepy, and some of it creeped into TLC even, which is more aesthetic usually. Fifty years of feminism, and successes in women's rights, and we get Gor, BDSM, dolls with keys, etc in SL. Of course, we don't know if all the people presenting as women are people born as biological women in RL. Still, as a presentation by either RL gender, it is disturbing.

As to this issue of the wildly exaggerated figures -- the event named for this phenomenon is actually the least offender and its ad has perfectly normal looking large women who are beautiful by many people's standards these days.

From my experience, there are three types of people sporting this more extreme or even crazy exaggerated look which ultimately is quite ugly and a form of violence, in my view:

1. Men choosing female avatars, who don't have a sense of proportion from real life, and who think "the more the better," and "the more, the more convincing." Generally RL women do not opt for these wildest exaggerations, it seems to me, and when you see a figure like this especially at events acting aggressively and obnoxiously, chances are its a male chauvinist in fact, not a RL woman. This is hard to admit and call out for people who want to secure freedom for this entire transgender space, but I think it's the last bastion of feminism, in fact. 

2. Women actually accepting of their own large bodies in RL, or who wish to promote acceptance and enjoyment of this look in SL, and who create beautiful looks and also don't care what anyone thinks of how they look, but also don't behave aggressively.

3.  Women who are very subservient to men, who choose these avatars and styles either in a belief that it will please men, or because men have commanded it.

Quite frankly,  there are a lot more of 1 and 3 than 2 in SL, and I think with enough experience, you start to see the difference. Of course all three are allowed and encouraged in SL, but that doesn't mean we all have to accept it as good for women in general.

That the event world runs on these three types of figures is a given -- they all sell, in one way or another.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Men choosing female avatars, who don't have a sense of proportion from real life, and who think "the more the better," and "the more, the more convincing." Generally RL women do not opt for these wildest exaggerations, it seems to me, and when you see a figure like this especially at events acting aggressively and obnoxiously, chances are its a male chauvinist in fact, not a RL woman. This is hard to admit and call out for people who want to secure freedom for this entire transgender space, but I think it's the last bastion of feminism, in fact.

This is at least the second time I've seen you do this -- quietly conflating cis men representing as women in SL, with those who have trans identities.

The vast majority of men representing women in SL are not trans women. They are cis men who like the fashion and shopping choices available to women, or who enjoy lesbian sex, or prefer seeing a woman's butt when they are following themselves on the viewer camera, or . . . whatever.

This is dog whistle stuff. You're trying to blame trans women for misrepresentations of "women." It's the same stuff I see from trans exclusionary people in RL: trans women (all, what, 0.4% of the population that are trans women) are distorting social views of femininity.

It's nonsense. Please stop it.

[Prokofy Neva]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is at least the second time I've seen you do this -- quietly conflating cis men representing as women in SL, with those who have trans identities.

The vast majority of men representing women in SL are not trans women. They are cis men who like the fashion and shopping choices available to women, or who enjoy lesbian sex, or prefer seeing a woman's butt when they are following themselves on the viewer camera, or . . . whatever.

This is dog whistle stuff. You're trying to blame trans women for misrepresentations of "women." It's the same stuff I see from trans exclusionary people in RL: trans women (all, what, 0.4% of the population that are trans women) are distorting social views of femininity.

It's nonsense. Please stop it.

Sorry, but I've expressed an opinion that I stand by, and I won't be changing it. It's based on a great deal of observation and experience, not ideology as I had no preconceptions on these issues, really, when I first came to SL.

You have your definitions of many things related to your socialist outlook and identity-based politics in RL. I don't share those views. There isn't anything I'm going to be "stopping" . There isn't any "dog whistling".  It isn't nonsense because we can all see it before our eyes, because SL exaggerates many things of RL. I'd have to say you really are misled on this subject if you think that in SL, as in games, there is a large population of men who merely "enjoy seeing women's butts" because that's the camera perspective so they choose a female avatar. That's not what anthropological studies of SL find. 

Surely you can concede that a man who dresses up as a woman in SL and coerces a woman who is actually a lesbian in RL into having virtual sex -- because she doesn't know he is a man in RL -- is committing an act of violence. And that is all too common in SL. 

There's no point in arguing about this further as it's not even the topic of this thread and any proper, free debate on this subject merely leads to a lot of authoritarians punching AR buttons. So you're welcome to have the last word if you feel it is necessary but do get over any notion that I'm going to "stop" expressing my opinions that I hold sincerely. Most of the "trans exclusionary" and "TERF" talk I see on line merely comes from wannabee authoritarians and I don't see any reason at all to kowtow to them.

What I heartily, robustly, persistently, and defiantly object to is the notion you and others who view themselves as guardians of the transgender space have that people who have avatars of the opposite general "aren't real trans people" or "don't count" or don't deserve rights and privacy like every other resident of SL. People get to have any gender they choose, and they are not less legitimate if they don't make this transition in RL. And we get to call out those who are aggressive in this presentation and trample on others' rights, and create a disturbing spectacle for society where supposedly progress has been made for women's rights in reality.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Blaise Glendevon]

It always starts with someone bitching about heauxwear and always ends with us having to re-litigate the 80s feminist sex wars. The second wave sunk, sis. Move on.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[Prokofy Neva]

5 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

It always starts with someone bitching about heauxwear and always ends with us having to re-litigate the 80s feminist sex wars. The second wave sunk, sis. Move on.

You don't know what the fourth wave might look like, sis. 

[Persephone Emerald]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is at least the second time I've seen you do this -- quietly conflating cis men representing as women in SL, with those who have trans identities.

The vast majority of men representing women in SL are not trans women. They are cis men who like the fashion and shopping choices available to women, or who enjoy lesbian sex, or prefer seeing a woman's butt when they are following themselves on the viewer camera, or . . . whatever.

This is dog whistle stuff. You're trying to blame trans women for misrepresentations of "women." It's the same stuff I see from trans exclusionary people in RL: trans women (all, what, 0.4% of the population that are trans women) are distorting social views of femininity.

It's nonsense. Please stop it.

I thought Prokofy meant that the virtual space of Second Life was transgender, as in beyond gender, but I guess sometimes I see what I want to see too. I do think most of the people who play a gender in SL that different than their RL sex do so for a variety of psychological reasons that even they may not be fully aware of. I think the percentage of people who play in SL and identify as trans in RL is actually pretty small. Most men who play in SL as a female avatar are not trans, and transwomen don't figure at all into Prokofy's 3 catagories. Transwomen, I'd argue, are probably not likely to use hugely disproportionate female avatars, because they want their avatar to look as they would want to look in RL.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'd have to say you really are misled on this subject if you think that in SL, as in games, there is a large population of men who merely "enjoy seeing women's butts" because that's the camera perspective so they choose a female avatar. That's not what anthropological studies of SL find.

Right. So you really are saying that there is no difference between a biological male choosing a female avatar in SL, and a transgender woman. And that, by extension, trans women are reinforcing sexist stereotypes.

Glad we've got you on record on that subject.

12 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Surely you can concede that a man who dresses up as a woman in SL and coerces a woman who is actually a lesbian in RL into having virtual sex -- because she doesn't know he is a man in RL -- is committing an act of violence. And that is all too common in SL.

Yes. It is all too common in SL. And yes it is a kind of violence.

But a trans woman is not a man who "dresses up as a woman."

My god, Prok. Seriously.

14 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What I heartily, robustly, persistently, and defiantly object to is the notion you and others who view themselves as guardians of the transgender space have that people who have avatars of the opposite general "aren't real trans people" or "don't count" or don't deserve rights and privacy like every other resident of SL. People get to have any gender they choose, and they are not less legitimate if they don't make this transition in RL.

When have I ever said anything even remotely like this?

[Blaise Glendevon]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You don't know what the fourth wave might look like, sis. 

I do, in fact. Intersectional fourth wave feminism has been the discourse for the last ten years. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think the percentage of people who play in SL and identify as trans in RL is actually pretty small.

YES! I know a fair number -- but I would: I run two feminist groups in SL.

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Most men who play in SL as a female avatar are not trans, and transwomen don't figure at all into Prokofy's 3 catagories.

YES! THANK YOU!

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Transwomen, I'd argue, are probably not likely to use hugely disproportionate female avatars, because they want their avatar to look as they would want to look in RL.

Which is, actually, most generally the case also in RL. Yes!

[Silent Mistwalker]

58 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Nothing is really "necessary" in SL, and yet it must be necessary because we keep coming back here. 

It's not the food, shelter and clothing that we need in RL, and which we spend real money on to survive in RL. It must be that we need an ineffable something from here that feeds our minds and souls.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that would be contact with other human beings.

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that would be contact with other human beings.

That may be part of it, but couldn't we get a better version of that in RL if we really wanted it?

I was waiting for a response so I could half-jokingly postulate an alternative reason; maybe it's not just something that we feed on, but also something that feeds on us?  💻👻

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

That may be part of it, but couldn't we get a better version of that in RL if we really wanted it?

I was waiting for a response so I could half-jokingly postulate an alternative reason; maybe it's not just something that we feed on, but also something that feeds on us?  💻👻

I don't have any contact with what is left of my family and what friends I have left (if any) are over 2000 miles away. Haven't heard from them in ... over 2 decades now. 

Sounds like loneliness to me.

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I don't have any contact with what is left of my family and what friends I have left (if any) are over 2000 miles away. Haven't heard from them in ... over 2 decades now. 

Sounds like loneliness to me.

I'm in much the same boat, but I also choose to self-isolate and play in a virtual world. It's less stressful and less ego-challenging than going out into RL to make and keep new friends. Thank goodness I have a housemate who I actually like and get along with. I'm also quite capable of getting along fine with my coworkers. Yet, I would still rather go into a virtual world that feels safe and familiar than to challenge myself with RL people whom I don't know very well. 

[Prokofy Neva]

37 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

I do, in fact. Intersectional fourth wave feminism has been the discourse for the last ten years. 

It's not over yet. Then there's the fifth.

[Prokofy Neva]

46 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I thought Prokofy meant that the virtual space of Second Life was transgender, as in beyond gender, but I guess sometimes I see what I want to see too. I do think most of the people who play a gender in SL that different than their RL sex do so for a variety of psychological reasons that even they may not be fully aware of. I think the percentage of people who play in SL and identify as trans in RL is actually pretty small. Most men who play in SL as a female avatar are not trans, and transwomen don't figure at all into Prokofy's 3 catagories. Transwomen, I'd argue, are probably not likely to use hugely disproportionate female avatars, because they want their avatar to look as they would want to look in RL.

That's simply not true. I have known in SL people who are transgender in RL, and I have met them in RL, and they show up in these three categories as well, and yes, they can have partners who demand this exaggeration of this and they submit to it in some d/s lifestyle and I don't think that's a good thing for them OR people who were born women in RL.

Running two feminist groups in SL doesn't give you the full picture of everything in SL, far from it. 

I've been in SL for nearly 18 years and have seen all kinds of people in SL and seen them in RL, too. And again, the idea that only people who are trans women in real life -- and have had surgery -- are authentic, and everyone else isn't unless they meet that criteria are not -- is simply reprehensible authoritarianism to me. Whatever the genuine impulses of protectiveness of a space or people might be back of it, it has morphed into a tool of oppression and I see no reason whatsoever that we have to stand for it.

And no, it's simply not true that those who are not serious trans women, even going through transition in RL, refrain from these exaggerations in SL. They don't whatsoever.

In any event, I'm letting Scylla have the last word because it's impossible to have a fair debate about these issues on the forums and I'm happy to let you have the last word, too. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Chris Corvinus]

We talking about too many shopping events, not feminism. Both of you stop it and stay on topic. I like this thread and don't wanna see it closed.

[Chic Aeon]

4 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm curious what it costs a store to be in a Shop and Hop event. Is it less expensive than other events because it's sponsored by Linden Lab? I've noticed some top stores have been absent from some of the Shop and Hop events, so they must not need the exposure that much, yet one of these stores is still very active in the FLF & weekend sales.

Shop and Hop has always been completely free. It tells you that on the announcement each time it accepts applications.

In the beginning (the first one) most all of the shops were very "top drawer", then it became easier to get into and then (change of focus) it became more "all inclusive" which is some ways is nice for the creators. But the quality has gone down over the rounds and hence (and I noticed this too) a lot of the top brands apparently no longer applied.  Towards the beginning (I was in four of five I think) the income was good for all the folks that "I" knew and chatted with. Then they let in 2 gachas and that became MY HIGHEST event ever.  Now of course the gachas are gone :D.  

My best guess is that some brands have stopped taking part BECAUSE of the all inclusive (honestly some shops are terrifically tacky to the point that it hurts me to walk by). They likely don't want to be in the same company with those folks.   I pretty much concur.   The last round (Christmas) I looked at the list and just went to the shops that I knew so that I could make a blog post.   That kind of defeats the purpose of the all inclusive bit. BTW the event got MUCH larger in its all inclusiveness making it a real chore to do in one day (I have done it  but it isn't fun).

The folks I know who are now participating (they were not when the event was newish) are doing "OK" but not making all that much profit even with the FREE FEE.   

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Chic Aeon
wrong word replaced

[Polenth Yue]

29 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

The folks I know who are now participating (they were not when the event was newish) are doing "OK" but not making all that much profit even with the FREE FEE.  

I found the Shop and Hop was okay for profit, but the community side is not great. People constantly complain that all the shops are terrible and the gifts are trash. I know some people did like the gifts I made, as I've seen them in people's gardens, but at the event itself it was mainly complaints.

My feeling is that people only really want giftcards from the big brands. Offering an actual item as a gift is not a fun experience.

[Charlotte Bartlett]

The general way the new good events work are:

Great unique concept

Small amount of great creators

Success and creators do well and customers love it

Add 120 more creators to mix and the fees go up 800%

Boo!

Just my personal opinion - joking aside,  as creators it is all going to depend on what you want/rationale for creating (profit/hobby/fun etc).
For consumers, there are different drivers from pure consumerism, FOMO, competing through to just a general love of supporting their favourite creator/collecting items.
We no longer (mostly) do monthly deadline driven events as we found it difficult with our approach/priorities.

Personally, we have found Saturday Sale to be a good balance for our customers.

1. Not required to do each week so we can do based on our own schedule/RL needs.

2. Gives all our customers the ability to get an item at a huge discount over 2-3 days so great for those on a budget or our long term customers who collect each release. All new releases go through the sale first for that reason,

3. Doesn't really impact the lifecycle/profit of a product as after it's back to full price and normal channels apply each region or marketplace shopping. We win, our customers also win.

I get swamped with event invites (so much so I banned them on my profile and some still can't read) as people think that's so easy -  500-7000 a month per creator in fees if they can get 100 creators - bank!   The reality is due to the saturation of events unless they bring something new to the table not yet discovered/format - I can't see it will survive long term .  Albeit niche events if they are getting enough sales/creators, then why not?

The good part of events is you can simply ignore them if they are are held at a hosted location.   We continue to do regular sales during the year too for customers (for the usual things like Black Friday).   I know we may have a different approach/opinion to others as Scarlet is so old so we have our own customer base and channels we leverage for our products.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Charlotte Bartlett
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