Lets fix mainland travel, here is an idea.

[Jyrgen Miklos]

Introduction

People do awful lot of things in Second Life. For me it has been mostly about exploring around with my vehicles and creating stuff. We have massive amount of continents and lately they all have been connected. Today I attempted to cross the new path from Sansara to Nautilus but two of my attempts were ruined by ban lines.

I think it is a shame that you only see aircraft flying at the Blake Sea region as it is the only place to safely fly without having to play "the wall is lava" on mainland roads with aircraft with additional luck involved if ban lines are near sim border.

 

The idea

When entering parcel that has setup ban lines you are free to safely cross it. When entering the property with ban lines you and the vehicle you travel with will go into "ghost mode". This mode works pretty much same as using free camera into property that has ban lines. You will not see residents inside, you will not hear any sounds or chat, and same applies for the resident inside the parcel. The resident wont even be aware of flight happening as the moment the player entered their property, the vehicle and avatar disappeared for them and reappears once the traveler exits the ban lines.

 

Conclusion

I am very happy for the people that use security orbs attempting to make the travel safer. It is better than ban lines but many times when property is near sim border making you slow down, I get ejected and banned just for the orb timer being too low or their property being too big to cross in time.

I like the fact that the mainland is ever changing and massive, there is some life to it that Flight Simulator misses. I think it would be amazing to see air travel happening everywhere else as well rather than at Blake Sea.

What do you people think? Is this something that would be acceptable to you. Would it be a good idea to present to Linden Labs?

Thank you for reading.

[Theresa Tennyson]

39 minutes ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

Introduction

People do awful lot of things in Second Life. For me it has been mostly about exploring around with my vehicles and creating stuff. We have massive amount of continents and lately they all have been connected. Today I attempted to cross the new path from Sansara to Nautilus but two of my attempts were ruined by ban lines.

I think it is a shame that you only see aircraft flying at the Blake Sea region as it is the only place to safely fly without having to play "the wall is lava" on mainland roads with aircraft with additional luck involved if ban lines are near sim border.

 

The idea

When entering parcel that has setup ban lines you are free to safely cross it. When entering the property with ban lines you and the vehicle you travel with will go into "ghost mode". This mode works pretty much same as using free camera into property that has ban lines. You will not see residents inside, you will not hear any sounds or chat, and same applies for the resident inside the parcel. The resident wont even be aware of flight happening as the moment the player entered their property, the vehicle and avatar disappeared for them and reappears once the traveler exits the ban lines.

 

Conclusion

I am very happy for the people that use security orbs attempting to make the travel safer. It is better than ban lines but many times when property is near sim border making you slow down, I get ejected and banned just for the orb timer being too low or their property being too big to cross in time.

I like the fact that the mainland is ever changing and massive, there is some life to it that Flight Simulator misses. I think it would be amazing to see air travel happening everywhere else as well rather than at Blake Sea.

What do you people think? Is this something that would be acceptable to you. Would it be a good idea to present to Linden Labs?

Thank you for reading.

If you're flying you shouldn't have problems with ban lines because ban lines only go up to a comparatively low height and if you fly that low over structures you'll get your pilot's license taken away.

[Jyrgen Miklos]

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If you're flying you shouldn't have problems with ban lines because ban lines only go up to a comparatively low height and if you fly that low over structures you'll get your pilot's license taken away.

Just checked, ban lines reach up to 5100 meters. Objects and vehicles only go up to 4096 meters making the ban lines impossible to cross with a vehicle.

[Mollymews]

i think you maybe over complicating the fix Jyrgen

as Theresa says we talking about an area up to 50 meters above the terrain in a height space of 4096 metres. How much space does anyone need to fly their aircraft. Most seasoned mainland aviators have a altimeter hud. Which tells them how high above the terrain they are. So when going cross country stay 60 metres above the terrain and you won't hit a banline

but then what about boats and cars. The probem with banlines from a vehicle driver's perspective is that they are not visible to the driver early enough. We don't know the banlines are there until we are almost on top of them.  If we could see them sooner then it would be great

what I think the immediate fix is that will be the best for everyone, is that parcel banline information be made available to the viewer as a parcel property. This way the Catznip mini map can color in the parcels same as it can for the other parcel settings. Pick a color for this. So we driving, saling, flying along and and we can see where the banline parcels are way ahead of us, and we can go around them or over them

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

7 minutes ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

Just checked, ban lines reach up to 5100 meters.

hhmm lemme guess... you been there before and people didn't like that visit?

Unless this info is wrong, it's still valid 

Quote

Ban lines are limited to a height of 5000 m above the terrain mesh when you're explicitly banned from the land. If the parcel is simply not pubic access or restricted to certain Residents/groups, then the lines go up to 50 m above the terrain mesh. 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Ban

 

[Mollymews]

11 minutes ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

Just checked, ban lines reach up to 5100 meters. Objects and vehicles only go up to 4096 meters making the ban lines impossible to cross with a vehicle.

if we have been explicitly banned from the parcel by the parcel owner then is no way Linden are ever going to allow us to enter that parcel no matter how ghosted we are

[Jyrgen Miklos]

There is almost a sim sized land near my helipad that I have never set my foot onto or communicated with the residents. I was added to ban list by their security orb as 5 seconds is not enough time to fly over and cross sim border. There is a plot other way that I can access but I am also banned. I asked the owner for the reason why am I banned and explained the reason why I care. As a response I did get a lot of hate that it is not my land and they can ban who they feel.

Getting banned on lands if you just exist in the same sim or fly over is inevitable as for the reason I came up with this idea.

[Mollymews]

13 minutes ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

There is almost a sim sized land near my helipad that I have never set my foot onto or communicated with the residents. I was added to ban list by their security orb as 5 seconds is not enough time to fly over and cross sim border. There is a plot other way that I can access but I am also banned. I asked the owner for the reason why am I banned and explained the reason why I care. As a response I did get a lot of hate that it is not my land and they can ban who they feel.

Getting banned on lands if you just exist in the same sim or fly over is inevitable as for the reason I came up with this idea.

i do feel for you, that you have been caught up in a struggle with your neighbours

i just say that when we are helicopter pilot we think they are great fun. And they are.  And they are noisy

but when we in our own home chilling and relaxing, minding our business then helicopters are the pits.  Same in the realworld. We have a police helicopter in reals that does this. Choop! choop! choop! loud as, travelling slowly above building height. Some times I just want to shoot it out of the sky when it comes along. Even tho they have a good reason for doing this, they are not out for a fun spin, they are spotting burglars and others running from the police on the ground. But I still I want to shoot them down sometimes, the noisey beggars

so am not surprised that you been shot down by some of SL neighbours, unfortunate as this is for you

[Anna Nova]

I very much doubt LazyLab has any intention of changing that sort of stuff.  They are all sitting tight waiting and hoping that the Zukerblob will come and buy them out to make the meatverse (not wishing to infringe on anyone's tradename....).

[Jackson Redstar]

IMO ban lines are only one issue that makes flying not very fun, least over mainland. That being, 1) there is nothing to "see" mainland is a mess. Other than the challenge of trying to get from point a to point b without slamming into a ban line 'flying' is kinda boring. And what you can 'see' is mostly a loose collection of scattered buildings and objects - and sky platforms everywhere

[Coffee Pancake]

Low flying slow moving LOUD helicopters has made me seriously consider scripting a turret to blast them out the sky.

[Istelathis]

3 hours ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

When entering the property with ban lines you and the vehicle you travel with will go into "ghost mode". This mode works pretty much same as using free camera into property that has ban lines. You will not see residents inside, you will not hear any sounds or chat, and same applies for the resident inside the parcel.

I think it is a good idea, and we already more or less have that option when it comes to people off of our parcels.  An additional checkbox would include non members, or people not on your friends list to simply vanish from sight on your land and can not see you or be able to communicate on that parcel.  

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

5 hours ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

but two of my attempts were ruined by ban lines.

I'm not sure which viewer you are using, but on Catznip in the mini-map part of the people floater I see parcels with ban-lines shown as a reddish hue. It should therefore be quite easy to use it as an inflight-radar and steer around such parcels.

 

ETA I am seeing a lot more posts on the theme of "something other people are doing is inconveniencing me, I want them to stop doing it/be disallowed from being able to do it". Apart from the obvious rejoinder of ""they might be doing it because of things people like you are doing", the general trend of lobbying LL to net-nanny-cancel some/all individual freedoms is a worrying one. Socialism has some fine ideals, but Libertarianism still has a lot to offer as a way forward for societies.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Jyrgen Miklos said:

There is almost a sim sized land near my helipad that I have never set my foot onto or communicated with the residents. I was added to ban list by their security orb as 5 seconds is not enough time to fly over and cross sim border.

You're confusing ban lines with security orbs and those are two completely different things.

 

1 hour ago, Anna Nova said:

I very much doubt LazyLab has any intention of changing that sort of stuff.

Realistically they can't because security orbs are created by independent scripters, not by Linden Lab.

 

1 hour ago, Jackson Redstar said:

IMO ban lines are only one issue that makes flying not very fun, least over mainland. That being, 1) there is nothing to "see" mainland is a mess. Other than the challenge of trying to get from point a to point b without slamming into a ban line 'flying' is kinda boring. And what you can 'see' is mostly a loose collection of scattered buildings and objects - and sky platforms everywhere

What you want is a large, varied but coherent landscape to travel across and explore. So do I but we have to face the fact that such a thing does not and will never exist in Second Life. Mainland may look like it at first glance but it isn't and there's nothing that can be done about it.

This "big landscape" concept can't be imposed onto an existing virtual reality, it would have to be built from scratch as a coordinated effort by a fairly large number of independent builders and designers. Because of the bloated tier prices in SL, nobody but Linden Lab themselves can possibly afford to instigate such a project and they are not interested.

 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

What you want is a large, varied but coherent landscape to travel across and explore. So do I but we have to face the fact that such a thing does not and will never exist in Second Life. Mainland may look like it at first glance but it isn't and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Very true! However, there's a solution to that OUTSIDE of Second Life: Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. It has better graphics, realistic aircraft, it mimics the whole Real World, and you can even use it with VR (or not, as you prefer).

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

17 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020

If only it gave you the chance to bomb and strafe other people....

I left the train simulators for a similar reason, it was far too solitary a pastime. SL gives you collaborative building and people with minds of their own, (even though this can sometimes be infuriating and lead to your wishing to bomb and strafe them),

Edited October 30, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

I remember Flight Simulator.  Some reason my plains kept kissing the pavement!

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

SL gives you collaborative building

Stares at you in blender. 

Collaborative building is long dead.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

32 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Collaborative building is long dead.

"I and I are the livin' dread,

in the land of the livin' dead..."

 

I use Blender as little as possible, likewise GMax and 3dCanvas/3DCrafter.

If I must build outside of SL I prefer to use Sketchup, the wide open space is similar to SL-builds, whereas the other three programs make me think of cutting two armholes and a view port in a cardboard box and mounting my work in a lazy-susan inside, then peering in whilst fumbling with gloved hands in the gloom.

(I do actually do something close to this when I'm spray-painting model-railway things because my partner is badly asthmatic and reacts badly to the solvents. If she keels over I might starve to death.)

Edited October 30, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Mollymews]

7 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I'm not sure which viewer you are using, but on Catznip in the mini-map part of the people floater I see parcels with ban-lines shown as a reddish hue. It should therefore be quite easy to use it as an inflight-radar and steer around such parcels.

the issue is the banline information only gets sent to the viewer when we are near the parcel. The same distance away as yellow tape visibility. If the information could be picked up  like other parcel properties then the Catznipp mini-map can color in the parcel a whole lot sooner same as the other parcel properties

 

[Mollymews]

i just add what some seasoned aviators have as way to help ameliorate the issue of the OP

on their aviator HUD is a little square region reference pad, like a touchpad.  Double touch on the pad and it translates to a X Y region coordinate at the same Z height as the vehicle.  OnDoubleTouch coordinates sent to the vehicle

OnReceiptOfMessage vehicle llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS, FALSE); llSetRegionPos(<coordinates>); llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS, TRUE); and can carry on from there

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

the issue is the banline information only gets sent to the viewer when we are near the parcel. The same distance away as yellow tape visibility.

That's interesting, I don't see the yellow tape until I bang my nose on it but the rose-pink parcel colour is there on the mini-map as soon as I look a it. The mini-map updates often before the textures have finished de=blurring. Is this because I'm walking and so get more time for the updates, wherea a flier doesn't have the time available?

I just tested by popping away to a couple f regions and then back to whre I know there's a blocked parcel. Unless the mini-maps are also cached, the informtion was there withing a second of my arriving.

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

That's interesting, I don't see the yellow tape until I bang my nose on it but the rose-pink parcel colour is there on the mini-map as soon as I look a it. The mini-map updates often before the textures have finished de=blurring. Is this because I'm walking and so get more time for the updates, wherea a flier doesn't have the time available?

i am not a TPV developer so I don't know the deep details of all this, I can really only go off what I can see

this the Catznip R12.3 viewer, is a really nice viewer btw and when I go thru vehicle traveler phases is my preferred viewer. For me it has the look and feel of a Linden Viewer Plus. Most everything UX wise is were I expect it to be (with the addition of Plus attributes). The standard Linden Viewer is my usual everyday viewer. So switching between the two is mostly quite seamless for me

here is two pics of me flying my avatar. I fly along and the mini-map parcel changes to red at the same time as the yellow tape shows in the view. Which I will most times bonk into while flying. And pretty much always bonk into the banline when on a vehicle going 2, 3,4 times faster

the next pic shows me having turned round and going in the opposite direction

and bonk again

notice that the first parcel now behind me is no longer colored red. I have to bonk into it again for it to go red

as I say I am not a viewer developer, but as a vehicle enthusiast I would love to have the minimap show all the banline parcels on those 6 regions in my draw distance and have that persist on the mini-map same as the yellow for sale information

am sure that people would like other information to be able to show as well also. For example some people would like to be able to see Abandoned Land owned by Governor Linden

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Mollymews
tpsss

[Lindal Kidd]

6 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

If only it gave you the chance to bomb and strafe other people....

I left the train simulators for a similar reason, it was far too solitary a pastime. SL gives you collaborative building and people with minds of their own, (even though this can sometimes be infuriating and lead to your wishing to bomb and strafe them),

I fly in alone in MSFS. But it can be a social activity too. Check out some of the YouTube videos by a guy named AirForceProud. And military aircraft are coming to MSFS in a couple of weeks, in the next update...but if you really want combat, there's DCS World.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

11 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i am not a TPV developer so I don't know the deep details of all this, I can really only go off what I can see

this the Catznip R12.3 viewer, i

Yes, I also use Catznip. I wonder therefore if this is an altitude issue? I tried walking on he ground and the mini-map was fully coloured before I approached the banned parcel. I'll retry flwing and see if it's different. If it is an altitude thing then maybe there i an easy fix for it?

ETA

I realise there are two issues here:

1) does altitude have an effect on how quickly the minimap is drawn/redrawn?

2) How quickly does the minimap get redrawn to reflect changes. Ie if I am in a parcel 50 metres from a parcel that suddenly turns on ban lines, hw soon will my mini-map change to show this?

Needs testing somewhere that has a person willing to toggle their parcel banlines on and off.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku