Lets fix mainland travel, here is an idea.

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

Yes, I also use Catznip. I wonder therefore if this is an altitude issue? I tried walking on he ground and the mini-map was fully coloured before I approached the banned parcel. I'll retry flwing and see if it's different. If it is an altitude thing then maybe there i an easy fix for it?

am not sure of the distance (but I think is only a few metres).  The faster we are moving the quicker we cross the distance, so the time to bonk is a lot less than we we are walking, going slower

[Coffee Pancake]

11 hours ago, Mollymews said:

as I say I am not a viewer developer, but as a vehicle enthusiast I would love to have the minimap show all the banline parcels on those 6 regions in my draw distance and have that persist on the mini-map same as the yellow for sale information

When we made the minimap parcel borders we really wanted to show as much information as we could about parcels, the problem is the viewer doesn't know you don't have access till you're right on top of it.

The map is basically a rendering of the the information the viewer has been explicitly sent by the region in that moment. It's not perfect.

Extending this functionality would require server changes to give the viewer more information about parcels on the region you're on and it's neighbors.

[Mollymews]

12 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Extending this functionality would require server changes to give the viewer more information about parcels on the region you're on and it's neighbors.

i remember when you did the mini-map, I was like wooo! I love you!  It made trying to win the Starchild Rally a whole easier. Could see where the public right-of-ways were really easy. Up til then we had to use prim HUD maps which were really slow

hint! hint! That Linden who worked on making vehicle crossings much better!  Level us up more please!

ps. I thought it was something to do with the banlines not showing up til later on, just because of how the banlines visibility worked.  Thanks for the confirmation

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mollymews
visibliity

[Coffee Pancake]

28 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

ps. I thought it was something to do with the banlines not showing up til later on, just because of how the banlines visibility worked.  Thanks for the confirmation

I might be wrong, but vaguely remember ban lines being a hot topic 'blight on the landscape' issue years and years back and the Lab's answer was to pull back that information till the last possible moment.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Tests with two Catznip users:

Ban-lines and the Catzip red (pink?) overlay only activate at about 15 - 12 metres.

At altitude, the rose-pink colour doesn't appear even crossing the trigger range and entering the parcel for the first time

When first logging in, the mini map doesn't show the rose-pink. You have to approach it to within the trigger range.

Once detected, the mini-map colours persist even after TP-ing away and then TP-ing back, even if you arrive at an altitude where the ban-lines won't be detected,

Logging out and logging back in results in no colours on the mini-map persisting, you have to approach to the trigger range.

BUT, the yellow overlay for land for sale is there immediately on login and regardless of the altitude.

 

So here is my proposal to improve travel in SL.

Add parcel-ban areas to the mini-map in the same way that land for sale is aready present, and make it non dependant upon proximity and alttitude.

Hands up who wants to Jira this as a feature-request?

 

ETA just read Coffee's comment and the answer to the blight on the landscape is to make it an option that can be toggled on or off in the mini-map?

 

ETATA

The LL viewer does not even show land for sale parcels as yellow and I could find no options to make it do so, so this proposal is only going to be possible in TPV like Catznip. I see a problem then where, if implemented, all high-speed voyagers switch from the LL viewer to TPVs and the use of the LL viewer declines to the point where they feel th TPVs are offering hings that don't fit nicely into the "shared experience" bucket.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The map is basically a rendering of the the information the viewer has been explicitly sent by the region in that moment. It's not perfect.

Extending this functionality would require server changes to give the viewer more information about parcels on the region you're on and it's neighbors.

I've been exploring and some information is already given out, the land for sale, for example, so it could be extended such that parcel with ban lines were also identified immediately on entering the region.

 

However, after some extended tests with the Officous viewer, Frustrum,  Insularity and CurlyourFruFru, only Catznip makes use of the land for sale information to put it on the mini-map, none of the others do, so even if the region gave out parcels with restricted access in the same way it does land for sale, none of the other viewers would be able to do anything with it. in a convenient to use form. I can't see LL accepting a feature request that would only benefit one of the TPVs.

 

I started sketching out a diabolically cunning plan, to create a troupe of scripted agents to go around region by region, collecting parcel information and then attempting to visit each parcel, building up a database of restricted access. That could then be fed into a large map with a Hud for frequent-flyers to allow them to plan a flight path just as in RL. But, I then foresaw land owners would get wound up by these nosy intruders and would start turning on their own ban-lines, and in the end the world as we know it would end up as a sea of red with a few sparse highways and couldn't-care-less landowner patches. So I parked the idea.

 

Fell back on this, because you never know your luck.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Mollymews]

8 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I might be wrong, but vaguely remember ban lines being a hot topic 'blight on the landscape' issue years and years back and the Lab's answer was to pull back that information till the last possible moment.

was ages ago when Jack Linden was boss of the mainland.  He came on the forums and asked if there was one thing that mainlanders wanted that could be done simply then what would it be ?

most people said they wanted to be able to turn off the neighbours banlines, which were bright red tape at the time.  So we got Do/don't show banlines, and Linden changed the tape color to yellow and changed the distance to be shorter (by how much I can't remember)

some people asked for the show banlines to be made as a visibility distance slider. Set to 0 (don't show) upto the user's draw distance. Had the slider been done then we would have what we are discussing here, vehicle people able to see banlines from a long way away, and neighbours able to not see them at all.  It never got done then, as not simple. But I still think it would good if it was, and I think would solve the mini-map issue 

[Coffee Pancake]

I wish there was a way the viewer could poke a region and get back a full blob of data about ownership and access without resorting to a scripted bridge hammering.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Mollymews]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I wish there was a way the viewer could poke a region and get back a full blob of data about ownership and access without resorting to a scripted bridge hammering.

definitely this would be the ideal solution.  Hint! hint! again Product Linden

[Chroma Starlight]

Wouldn't it be more enlightened to consider the unintended consequences created by "supernatural fences" that block nature's creatures from crossing over their own land?

What does a kirin care about property lines? What does an owl think of your fence? How do the fish feel about it? How about the dragonflies? Yeah, being respectful would be just swell- wouldn't it? Then we would have no more avians flying into your invisible glass wall traps, no more critters on the ground looking for some way through (they could have sworn it used to work fine!). Nobody now telling the birds what is the "proper altitude" for their flights, purpose unknown. Yeah, that sounds like it'd be better, doesn't it? Natural spirits were here first, after all.

If you want seclusion and privacy and absolute control? Well, are you really sure that VR that is the actually the right place in which for you to be active? What happens if the critters all stand up and say "no, enough is enough. You can't keep being allowed to get this wrong, you're literally spoiling everything!"

Banlines and similar prerogatives shouldn't be permitted to apply to or restrict nature's movement and activities and purposes. If you're that kind of critter and you are moving through this world, then obviously you already answer to some higher authority- no material world implementation of their will is required because the enforcement is divine. No amount of sophisticated rules could ever realistically expect to prevent high mischief nor make up for absent love should it suddenly go missing from the picture, as has been known to happen.

Perhaps it is time for us all to stop kowtowing to the personal wants of private individuals who prefer material wealth to life, love, and light, and who poison the entire experience for all the meek people who are earnestly just pursuing their dreams. Does anyone really believe that the plan was "to create VR" simply in order to virtualize and promote the endlessly ugly urban sprawl and blight and waste of mankind's most poorly-realized civilizations, the same ones that now appear to be destroying the entire experience for themselves and everyone else with their ill-conceived plans for reality? If so, with all due respect, we beg to differ.

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Paul Hexem]

I bought SnowRunner.