New for Men

[Paladin Tyran]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

It said head would be released the same time as the body.  Maybe at the Inithium store?

Head is at inithium, near Kario,  3999

[Drake1 Nightfire]

25 minutes ago, Paladin Tyran said:

Head is at inithium, near Kario,  3999

It might be at the event sim, it is certainly NOT at their main store. 

[Stephanie Misfit]

I got this for my male alt. I really like how it looks (the fit version) but I am not so much a fan of the thighs, I think they are a bit excessive.

[Chris Corvinus]

That Not Found skin looks to be misleading. Probably photoshopped but no skin from that place is that white. All their skins are either shades of tan or dark.

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

That Not Found skin looks to be misleading. Probably photoshopped but no skin from that place is that white. All their skins are either shades of tan or dark.

 

[Stephanie Misfit]

4 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

That Not Found skin looks to be misleading. Probably photoshopped but no skin from that place is that white. All their skins are either shades of tan or dark.

Yes I have found that with their female skins too, super tanned even in the lightest tones.

[Orwar]

   The nice thing with having BOM is that, even if neither the skin nor the body/head are modifiable, you can adjust the toning of your skins - but rather than just adding tone, which can never lighten a skin, make a tattoo layer with a semi-transparent, blank white texture (the ones I made for Mina are at 10% and 20% opacity) and add it to all relevant channels (i.e. top, head, and bottom - if you're an Evo X user, make a separate universal layer and add the texture to the Aux 1 channel for the ears; but since these layer differently than tattoo layers, you don't want your skin toners in that one).

   Then just put that tattoo on, below any layers that you don't want 'bleached' (in most cases it'll be below all layers except the face's skin that is often on a tattoo layer). You can then tint the layer itself if you want to add any toning (in the sample pic below, I added a bit of blue just as an example):

   Of course, if you have a very tanned skin at the base, the results may not look natural - but it could be worth giving a try if you like a skin but just want it a little brighter.

[Nick0678]

And here's John's brother Kevin @ Man Cave. (I know they don't look like brothers but they are.)

[Hyperplexed]

I tought about chimming in on this... 

Kario is bad. Maybe not bad for the majority of the SL population, but if you know your anatomy, you wouldn't even poke at it with a stick. Sorry about being "mean" but there is a minimal quality an artist should provide, specially for a "fairly" expensive object. #SorryNotSorry.

It has been all discussed in here I believe... Collar bones too low... shoulders too low... biceps that look like he was injecting synthol... pecs with implants... ballooned Gluteus that don't properly connect to leg muscles... etc etc etc... I could go on and on... but nothing, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, beats the "I have abs on my back" Erector Spinae. This is what happens when an artist gets lazy and doesn't create by using references. For me it seems the creator just suffers from the "muscles are just shapeless blobs" syndrome, and just couldn't be bothered to look how those muscles look in real life.

For those who are using the argument "not everyone wants to look human!", I can't take this argument seriously, because there is a substantial difference between being anatomically accurate or not and creative choices done for stylistic reasons. EVEN if you are a furry or whatever! The Kario has problems at the anatomy level, not at the stylistic level. EVEN if you want to have overly exaggerated muscles, you will want it to look... right. If you feel like it is ok to have abs on your back, then why not to have a mouth where your belly button is and eyes in place of nipples. If those making that argument about people not being human, please show me the item I just mentioned on the market, thank you in advance... The "abs on back" make it outright disgusting, I seriously can't even look at it without feeling irked... again, #SorryNotSorry.

The Aesthetic on the other hand, is an extremely well crafted mesh... not only it is very well done anatomically, but the mesh is technically far superior than any other body I've seen on SL. Textures are somewhat stylized and not so realistic, but they are anatomically accurate and pretty good. I look at all the other bodies in wireframe to see the mesh (or at UV Layouts when available) and I go... "WTF is happening with that topology". I'm not even going to point out the endless flaws on all the other meshes because I would risk my self on writing a novel... Do I think the Aesthetic and his creator deserves some criticisms? Yes, I do... and that includes design, technical and marketing aspects regarding the Aesthetic. But the thing I want to clear out in this post is... The Aesthetic can be EASILY converted to BOM, even without needing to re-do the UV Mapping:

The Aesthetic has the following textures:

1. Front Torso
2. Back Torso
3. Hip
4. Left Arm
5. Right Arm
6. Left Leg
7. Right Leg
8. Left Hand
9. Right Hand
10. Left Foot
11. Right Foot
12. Face
13. Head Scalp and Ears
14. Hair Base
15. Eyes (used over SL eyes, not a "mesh")
16. Mouth and Teeth
17. Neck Blender

In contrast, BOM only allows for 11 different textures. The thing is though... You don't need to have the full body as BOM. That already happens with other products. LeLutka eyes, by default are not BOM... Athletic, has 5 mesh layers... 4 non-BOM and one BOM, and a whole bunch of others for neck, hands and feet. With this in mind, and even if you reserve 3 slots for head parts, you are still left with 8. You can very well, run a partial Aesthetic BOM Body up to slot 7., to which you could have BOM layers to add body hair and tattoos. This would obviously only work withn the same UV layout of the Aesthetic itself, but so what?? LeLutka did the same, by evolving the UV into something that is non-SL Default-ish, which is the right step, and it is still BOM. BOM is agnostic when it comes to UVs... it just couldn't care less...

But, Aesthetic creator has done some design mistakes too IMHO. I dont see the need for example to have 2x hand and 2x foot textures, each at 1024x1024px. While I understand that is a skin area that is rich in more detail, he could just merge them into 4x 512x512px, which would then be used by the 8th slot still available from the 11. You still have 3 free for head (12, 13 and 14). The rest, doesnt "need" to be BOM. The problem might only be then, in having to juggle the slots you can use in the body versus on the head if you are using another head. Lelutka EvoX has probably more.

BOM is technically something we should all strive to use, but not only as users but also as creators. As I mentioned, the Athletic for example, is carrying 5x the body mesh. While full transparency might not have that much impact on rendering, it is still far from something being optimized, it is data that your viewer has to download. I would love to see LL expand the amount of BOM slots we could use. 3 texture maps was good 10 years ago maybe... but not anymore, and it's time to dump the "SL Default Map" crap.

And with this said, I'm going to point out that the Aesthetic body is MODIFY-able, thus allowing you to convert it to BOM "easily". If the creator would allow me to, I would do it freely for him, free of charge, so he could distribute it as a free "update" of sorts. But considering that everyone seems to have a hard time in trying to contact him, and having done myself for another matter without any success, I'm not going to bother.

All this Kario craze... is just hype... I doubt the majority of ppl using Aesthetic, will adopt it. While there seemed to be a handful of them popping around once it was released, I still don't see that many (thankfully) and I've talked with other ppl who have said they bought just for the sake of buying it, but wont use it, or others that wont bother buying. So far I think I only know 2 people who have switched from Aesthetic to Kario, and I know a lot of ppl with Aesthetic. A LOT!

Edited November 30, 2021 by Hyperplexed

[Hyperplexed]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:55 AM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

It is 13 textures for one skin. He would have to completely remap it, which i can hardly see him doing as unless it was a free update I cant see many if any users rebuying it for 3500L. 

On 11/18/2021 at 9:20 PM, Marianne Little said:

Yes, I will not complain if this body replaces Aesthetic. Better than Aesthetic by a mile.

Aside from the skin which looks good, please elaborate on how the Kario is better than the Aesthetic. Here is my informed judgement AND personal opinion:

PRO Aesthetic arguments

• Good Topology: Custom and unique topology on the mesh, with a nice flow
• Good Topology: The mesh will more easily bend properly, and not create jagged ridges
• Good Topology: will prevent too much pixel stretching
• Good Topology: The mesh density is optimal and not overly dense, and more optimized, making the proccess requirements lower (this obviously adds up, as more non-optimized meshes are on your viewport)
• Both mesh and textures display anatomically correct musculature
• 17 total texture maps: textures able to have a lot of detail
• Modify mesh, can be "BOMified", as long as you know what you're doing. Setting up as BOM will increase performance, and reduces complexity by 20%. You can also link all parts together to use only 1 slot
• Full body with head and AO included, at less than 75% of Kario's price tag

Anti Aesthetic arguments

• 17 total texture maps: Too many textures, requires a bigger render effort
• 17 total texture maps: BOM limitations and constrictions as mentioned on previous post
• Non SL Default UV: Creators will just stick with developing what is more profitable and less time consuming to create, so they will just make things for SL Default UV, which can targetd different body markets
• Poor Mesh Dev Kit (I'm sure this is the main reason why creators dont want to bother creating meshes for Aesthetic)
• The brand/shop/creator is a bit too much inactive, and doesn't engage with community
• Difficult to achieve a 100% good neck blend when using a different head

Pro Kario arguments

• SL Default UVs: Allows for textures that already exist to be re-used
• Single mesh body (I think)
• BOM able
• Neck and head seam match better

Anti Kario arguments

• SubDivision based Topology: seams to me it's nothing more than the default SL mesh that was subdivided. Anything but optimized, pointless overly dense mesh
• SL Default UVs: Limitation on amount of surface for textures. Cannot make skins as detailed/will look more blurry
• Both mesh and textures present very bad and inaccurate anatomy, ranging from mild to severe issues
• No-Modify
• Because the neck was made to match heads with the same edge loop , Flex's neck looks way to thin and out of proportion

So, please feel free to add objective reasons to why Aesthetic or Kario is better or not. For me the biggest problem remains the fact that Kario is anatomically inaccurate representing muscles that do not exist or so grossely done they stop looking entirely like it is a human body. And I'm not talking about exaggeration... The main problem is really how muscles are drawn, like the Erector Spinae. For you or others, you have other priorities I'm sure.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Hyperplexed
Adding the neck issues present on both avatars

[Marianne Little]

6 hours ago, Hyperplexed said:

Aside from the skin which looks good, please elaborate on how the Kario is better than the Aesthetic. Here is my informed judgement AND personal opinion:

PRO Aesthetic arguments

• Good Topology: Custom and unique topology on the mesh, with a nice flow
• Good Topology: The mesh will more easily bend properly, and not create jagged ridges
• Good Topology: will prevent too much pixel stretching
• Good Topology: The mesh density is optimal and not overly dense, and more optimized, making the proccess requirements lower (this obviously adds up, as more non-optimized meshes are on your viewport)
• Both mesh and textures display anatomically correct musculature
• 17 total texture maps: textures able to have a lot of detail
• Modify mesh, can be "BOMified", as long as you know what you're doing. Setting up as BOM will increase performance, and reduces complexity by 20%. You can also link all parts together to use only 1 slot
• Full body with head and AO included, at less than 75% of Kario's price tag

Anti Aesthetic arguments

• 17 total texture maps: Too many textures, requires a bigger render effort
• 17 total texture maps: BOM limitations and constrictions as mentioned on previous post
• Non SL Default UV: Creators will just stick with developing what is more profitable and less time consuming to create, so they will just make things for SL Default UV, which can targetd different body markets
• Poor Mesh Dev Kit (I'm sure this is the main reason why creators dont want to bother creating meshes for Aesthetic)
• The brand/shop/creator is a bit too much inactive, and doesn't engage with community

Pro Kario arguments

• SL Default UVs: Allows for textures that already exist to be re-used
• Single mesh body (I think)
• BOM able

Anti Kario arguments

• SubDivision based Topology: seams to me it's nothing more than the default SL mesh that was subdivided. Anything but optimized, pointless overly dense mesh
• SL Default UVs: Limitation on amount of surface for textures. Cannot make skins as detailed/will look more blurry
• Both mesh and textures present very bad and inaccurate anatomy, ranging from mild to severe issues
• No-Modify

So, please feel free to add objective reasons to why Aesthetic or Kario is better or not. For me the biggest problem remains the fact that Kario is anatomically inaccurate representing muscles that do not exist or so grossely done they stop looking entirely like it is a human body. And I'm not talking about exaggeration... The main problem is really how muscles are drawn, like the Erector Spinae. For you or others, you have other priorities I'm sure.

What you asked me about: I can not argue against about the anatomic issues. I was not very invested in the subject, and did not notice anything else than the back abs. I am sure you are correct about the faults. The rest was not obvious to me, and only the Flex version of the body seem to have back abs. 

So my comment was based upon that Aesthetic does not update, and the default skin all look "ashen" to me. Like they are dried out.... English isn't my 1# language so it is hard to describe nuances. Aesthetic can use some 3d party face tattoos, but that is all, and the neck connection to other heads is problematic. The body skins are so hard to find. All I have seen is the same skin with different colors for furry.

I am also tired of the stupid clothes selection. It looks like variations of the same meshes.

I became exited because Kario can have more skins! Maybe creators will make clothes for it! Easy to use other heads! No neck seam! BoM!

You write about how Aesthetic could have BoM, and it is only theoretic to me, since the creator do not change it, there it ends.

I also read a review that I linked to previous in the thread, and I saw that really nifty way of combining 2 skins (one for the body and a different one for the head). I thought; Why has not all creators done it, it is like simple and brilliant. It is also a blogger that I am admiring for his style, and I ignore that there is a Flex body version with back abs. 

I agree with you that the Aesthetic body is having better mesh, but the skins ruin the look in my eyes. What matters to one, does not matter to others. To have a modern mesh head work seamlessly with the body is so important to me that it is a heavy, very heavy argument.  

I did not buy a Kario body. I do not update my alts so much, especially the males. It is much more expensive to upgrade a male alt. But I got a Belleza Jake for one, since it was half price.

To sum it up: I wish Aesthetic would make a totally new body, not patch up the old one. It needs a better neck connection. One of my alts have the Aesthetic, but he has stopped to wear it years ago. Men does not have enough options, females has so much more to choose from.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Marianne Little
added some more

[Paladin Tyran]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I did not buy a Kario body

and really that's the problem with this body. seems like almost no one here done that or care to do. before the launch, we had 6 pages talking about. After, not even a single line. none, zero, nada. No one posted pics, good reviews, bad reviews on this body on the forum. When tmp became legacy, zillions of pages pro/ con about it , sharing good's and bad's. 

   this body is mostly a wrong move today, because it targets wrong audience.  most people here ( like the example put by Skell ) got it and tried to make it as  slim as possible.. why ? really, why could be a reason to get almost the most muscular body on market and make it the slimest ? other bodies work well on that.on the other hands, most of my friends with aesthetic don't even tried. the look on Kario is not the look wanted by the people in body-building sl community. those people want anatomic accuracy and Kario is..... let;s say is not.even the head made for it, John, is a joke. a very young kid smooth look on a rough body.

 aesthetic mesh might be outdated, but it got the look right.

will people buy it? of course, is shine and new and we love to show others we had the money to get it.all creators already jumped to help it, so it will have support. it will became popular ? we will see.. my guess is not, but there are rare times when i am wrong

[Rowan Amore]

13 hours ago, Hyperplexed said:

Full body with head and AO included, at less than 75% of Kario's price tag

I'd have to put that in the against column.  Way too many wore it ALL straight out of the box resulting in 39384738 men looking exactly the same.

[Nick0678]

47 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

...39384738 men looking exactly the same.

Not that many men in SL ... "738 men looking exactly the same." sounds more realistic.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Nick0678

[Hyperplexed]

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

What you asked me about: I can not argue against about the anatomic issues. I was not very invested in the subject, and did not notice anything else than the back abs. I am sure you are correct about the faults. The rest was not obvious to me, and only the Flex version of the body seem to have back abs. 

So my comment was based upon that Aesthetic does not update, and the default skin all look "ashen" to me. Like they are dried out.... English isn't my 1# language so it is hard to describe nuances. Aesthetic can use some 3d party face tattoos, but that is all, and the neck connection to other heads is problematic. The body skins are so hard to find. All I have seen is the same skin with different colors for furry.

I am also tired of the stupid clothes selection. It looks like variations of the same meshes.

I became exited because Kario can have more skins! Maybe creators will make clothes for it! Easy to use other heads! No neck seam! BoM!

You write about how Aesthetic could have BoM, and it is only theoretic to me, since the creator do not change it, there it ends.

I also read a review that I linked to previous in the thread, and I saw that really nifty way of combining 2 skins (one for the body and a different one for the head). I thought; Why has not all creators done it, it is like simple and brilliant. It is also a blogger that I am admiring for his style, and I ignore that there is a Flex body version with back abs. 

I agree with you that the Aesthetic body is having better mesh, but the skins ruin the look in my eyes. What matters to one, does not matter to others. To have a modern mesh head work seamlessly with the body is so important to me that it is a heavy, very heavy argument.  

I did not buy a Kario body. I do not update my alts so much, especially the males. It is much more expensive to upgrade a male alt. But I got a Belleza Jake for one, since it was half price.

To sum it up: I wish Aesthetic would make a totally new body, not patch up the old one. It needs a better neck connection. One of my alts have the Aesthetic, but he has stopped to wear it years ago. Men does not have enough options, females has so much more to choose from.

I understand and all those are valid criticisms against the Aesthetic, I dont think my Catwa blends that bad but also not at 100%. And speaking of neck, that is also one of Kario's problem... because it keeps the neck the same thickness to respect the head/neck "connection" (I believe) when you try the Flex version on, it just looks like a twig that is about to break. For me, the whole Flex body just looks like those bodybuilders wanna be's that inject synthol to look bigger. They look completely out of proportion and not aesthetically pleasing at all. No self respecting bodybuilder (or people who like the aesthetics of it) would want to look like that.

3 hours ago, Paladin Tyran said:

and really that's the problem with this body. seems like almost no one here done that or care to do. before the launch, we had 6 pages talking about. After, not even a single line. none, zero, nada. No one posted pics, good reviews, bad reviews on this body on the forum. When tmp became legacy, zillions of pages pro/ con about it , sharing good's and bad's. 

   this body is mostly a wrong move today, because it targets wrong audience.  most people here ( like the example put by Skell ) got it and tried to make it as  slim as possible.. why ? really, why could be a reason to get almost the most muscular body on market and make it the slimest ? other bodies work well on that.on the other hands, most of my friends with aesthetic don't even tried. the look on Kario is not the look wanted by the people in body-building sl community. those people want anatomic accuracy and Kario is..... let;s say is not.even the head made for it, John, is a joke. a very young kid smooth look on a rough body.

 aesthetic mesh might be outdated, but it got the look right.

will people buy it? of course, is shine and new and we love to show others we had the money to get it.all creators already jumped to help it, so it will have support. it will became popular ? we will see.. my guess is not, but there are rare times when i am wrong

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment Paladin, you are spot on, as far as I'm concerned

33 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'd have to put that in the against column.  Way too many wore it ALL straight out of the box resulting in 39384738 men looking exactly the same.

Yes, I will also add the internet there, because of all the misinformation it has. It is up to the person to want to buy a separate head and/or AO or not, it does not add any detriment to the product itself. You mention on your profile that you hate seeing people with short arms. I hate that too... but is that the problem of the avatar they are using? OBVIOUSLY not! Because then by the same logic, the feature to even allow you to change shape would be something bad, according to your reasoning. Heck... let's even take a step ahead, and make everything UN-EDITABLE, in order to not give people the possibility to change anything. You cant' blame the product just because you have people who have poor skills on building a decent avatar.

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Not that many men in SL ... "738 men looking exactly the same." sounds more realistic.

Ok, not any more but back when that body arrived?   It's as if they all just wore it straight out of the box.  No editing to make it individual.  All standing around with the ape-like AO.  It was disturbing.  I honestly don't see the body all that often anymore.  There will be the occasional newer person with it or a die-hard fan.  Black men!!! I'm looking at you!!!  Stop it!!!

 

 

[Nick0678]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Ok, not any more but back when that body arrived?   It's as if they all just wore it straight out of the box.  No editing to make it individual.  All standing around with the ape-like AO.  It was disturbing.  I honestly don't see the body all that often anymore.  There will be the occasional newer person with it or a die-hard fan.  Black men!!! I'm looking at you!!!  Stop it!!!

 

 

Well.. we were never that many men in SL and i include women who play SL as men, best case scenario it sold 3.000 - 5.000 bodies all these years (which still is a huge number for male products) but most of us bought TMP and Signature.

[Rowan Amore]

33 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Well.. we were never that many men in SL and i include women who play SL as men, best case scenario it sold 3.000 - 5.000 bodies all these years (which still is a huge number for male products) but most of us bought TMP and Signature.

Obviously, my estimate of 39384738 was meant in jest.  It just seemed as though wherever I went, there were at the least 2 men looking exactly the same often with the same outfit as those all looked the same as well.  

I think the appeal of it was that it did include everything so it was easy with everything (aside from dangly bits) included in the package.  One purchase and done.  No shopping around, no trying to figure out if this head goes with that body, what skin to buy, etc.  Some people just like simple.  

My BFF bought one when it came out.  Thank god he never used the head or AO that came with it.  He really did an amazing job working the edit to make it near perfect as far as size and proportions, something most didn't seem to do.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Ok, not any more but back when that body arrived?   It's as if they all just wore it straight out of the box.  No editing to make it individual.  All standing around with the ape-like AO.  It was disturbing.  I honestly don't see the body all that often anymore.  There will be the occasional newer person with it or a die-hard fan.  Black men!!! I'm looking at you!!!  Stop it!!!

 

 

I hated and still hate how the enzo head looks. Never used it. 

1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

Well.. we were never that many men in SL and i include women who play SL as men, best case scenario it sold 3.000 - 5.000 bodies all these years (which still is a huge number for male products) but most of us bought TMP and Signature.

You forgot Slink.. For three weeks after the initial release you couldnt get into the sim, it was packed 24/7. 

[Bowlslaw]

I think I made Kario look good. Tattoo easily removable.

 

[colleen Criss]

So, how many of you bought this mesh body?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

38 minutes ago, colleen Criss said:

So, how many of you bought this mesh body?

I got the demo.. Didn't care for the hyper muscles that were not humanly possible. The starter shapes were enormous. Just didn't care for it overall. I just cant see dropping that much for the new shiny that will be replaced in a few months. 

[Annie Nova]

3 hours ago, Bowlslaw said:

I think I made Kario look good. Tattoo easily removable.

 

Body looks ok, but is it just me or do the hands and feet look freakishly huge?????

[Bowlslaw]

6 minutes ago, Annie Nova said:

Body looks ok, but is it just me or do the hands and feet look freakishly huge?????

Hahaha! Do they look abnormally large? Maybe I shouod decrease them a bit.

[Rowan Amore]

Well, you know what they say about men with big hands...