soul stealer - what that do on avatars

[Luna Bliss]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

58 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But we do know this was not a random stranger.

No we don't.    But even if it were, it's best to discuss some aspects of the RP beforehand with anyone.  

With that said, before engaging in any RP in SL, it's always wise to learn about the different options and restrictions in regards to your avatar.  

Also, having a quick read through their profile, they might want to add a few more Limits.   Beware, NSFW.

I don't know what NSFW is, and I only go by what someone expresses here. If indeed their profile says they allow such things however you'd have a point.

Yes, I might agree that it's wise to check out all the things you mention anytime you engage with others as we both know there are some creeps in all worlds. It's preferable, it's ideal.

The reality though is that we simply can't be aware of all the ways unscrupulous people invade others without their permission. I mean, who has the time?  Even myself, having studied trauma issues extensively and thinking I was aware of all the ways people find to abuse another, was surprised at the new and bizarre method you mentioned in another thread -- the fact that there are men who abuse women they are in relationships with by controlling their pregnancy.

Really, we can't place all the blame on the victim just because they lack knowledge. There is no warning sign when we enter SL that says "be sure and read up on all the ways people can abuse you if you choose to roleplay", or "remember, these are strangers in SL so don't trust them". And for all we know this person is quite young as well, and I think I can tell from their speech that English is not their native language. And are they even familiar with virtual worlds? Have they roleplayed much and what was their experience in the past if they did.
When someone is taken advantage of, tricked, I need much for information before I'd assign responsibility to them.

I'm willing to assign some blame to those who 'should know', or 'do know', but much less willing to assign responsibility to those who simply lack knowledge.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

So no comment about the creeps who feel it's okay to go against the will of others and control them without permission?  You're just going to blame the victim?

Out of all the comments here, you chose to respond to mine? Target much? Don't go there. 

I will counter anyone who blames the victim. There are few dynamics more disgusting than when a person being taken advantage of is then blamed for the harm done to them.  Talk about a mindfork, and one that is very frequent in our society.

[So Whimsy]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't know what NSFW is

NSFW = Not Safe For Work

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You've been WKed!  Join the ever growing club.  We meet on Wednesdays.

Those who can't defend their position well resort to calling their opponent names.  That's just the type of person I tend to WK against.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't know what NSFW is, and I only go by what someone expresses here. If indeed their profile says they allow such things however you'd have a point.

Yes, I might agree that it's wise to check out all the things you mention anytime you engage with others as we both know there are some creeps in all worlds. It's preferable, it's ideal.

The reality though is that we simply can't be aware of all the ways unscrupulous people invade others without their permission. I mean, who has the time?  Even myself, having studied trauma issues extensively and thinking I was aware of all the ways people find to abuse another, was surprised at the new and bizarre method you mentioned in another thread -- the fact that there are men who abuse women they are in relationships with by controlling their pregnancy.

Really, we can't place all the blame on the victim just because they lack knowledge. There is no warning sign when we enter SL that says "be sure and read up on all the ways people can abuse you if you choose to roleplay", or "remember, these are strangers in SL so don't trust them". And for all we know this person is quite young as well, and I think I can tell from their speech that English is not their native language. And are they even familiar with virtual worlds? Have they roleplayed much and what was their experience in the past if they did.
When someone is taken advantage of, tricked, I need much for information before I'd assign responsibility to them.

I'm willing to assign some blame to those who 'should know', or 'do know', but much less willing to assign responsibility to those who simply lack knowledge.

Not Safe For Work = NSFW

Think of it this way, would you click an unknown link in group chat?  Would you accept something unknown from a random stranger in SL?  Would you allow an unknown object to animate your avatar?  These are basic things.  If you're going to immerse yourself in RP or any social interaction in SL or on the web for that matter, you should educate yourself to some degree.  

I know there is no way possible to know everything and prepare for every eventuality but some common sense is required for any online activity.  

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Think of it this way, would you click an unknown link in group chat?   If you're going to immerse yourself in RP or any social interaction in SL or on the web for that matter, you should educate yourself to some degree.  

I know there is no way possible to know everything and prepare for every eventuality but some common sense is required for any online activity.  

Yes, I clicked on something and was turned into a rabbit       lol

I learned though, through reading the forum (and my sad experience of rabbithood) that I should not do this.

Which is to say, we need to allow time for people to learn, either through group chats (if they belong to groups that discuss such things) or making their way to the forum....as did this OP.   Let's welcome her and help her learn -- not heap blame on her.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Those who can't defend their position well resort to calling their opponent names.  That's just the type of person I tend to WK against.

Pretty sure I stated my opinion pretty well without calling anyone names or being condescending and @Chris Novadidn't call anyone a name.  In fact, no one did any such thing in this thread.  All the responses were quite good. 

I can see where you're headed with this thread so I'll bow out.

 

[Chris Corvinus]

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I will counter anyone who blames the victim. There are few dynamics more disgusting than when a person being taken advantage of is then blamed for the harm done to them.  Talk about a mindfork, and one that is very frequent in our society.

Oh I did nothing of the sort. Grow up and stop bullying people. 

[Alwin Alcott]

40 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, I might agree .......

really nobody, ever, is waiting for you to agree

[Ceka Cianci]

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Jesus *****ing Christ. 🙄

This could have been finished by post 4, but someone always finds something to pick on.

[Lucia Nightfire]

Other than facilitating RP elements, Soul Stealer, Soul Taker, Soul Seize, etc. could also be animation and/or camera permissions collector objects.

Anything owned by someone else that you sit on or anything owned by someone else that sends you a permissions dialog asking for animation or camera tracking/controlling permissions can store said permissions.

Sometimes these use obfuscation tactics such as retitling their name to something innocuous like "Hugging HUD" or "Funny Chair" or the classic "BEER COOLER".

The ones that are sneaky are the invisible ones set to click-to-sit that follow you around waiting for you to click something in-world. Sometimes these have child prims that cover everything around to increase the chance of you clicking something. If you don't use a TPV that prevents click-to-sit, then you'll be force-sat on these followers if you click them and permissions extraction will occur. There are other flavors of operation, but the end-result is the same.

TPV's also have revoke permissions options on sit or stand, but sadly there are ways around these and permissions can still be extracted.

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

So no way to restore animations back to the avi? Or is that something you might need to lodge a ticket for.....

That's not quite what's happening, Kimmi.  If you fall for a Soul Stealer prank, none of your animations are stolen from you.  What has happened is that the device, and its owner, now has the PERMISSION to animate your avatar, just like when you jump on a dance ball and it gives you a request to animate your avatar, and you click OK. But in this case, the permission is not revoked when you stand up.  Now the prankster can force your avatar to do animations...sex animations, slave animations, clucking like a chicken, etc.

Firestorm's "Stop Animations and Revoke Permissions" command can stop this. But, if the Soul Stealer owner deletes the copy of the HUD he's wearing and gets a fresh copy from his inventory, THAT one will still have permission to animate you.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

16 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

What has happened is that the device, and its owner, now has the PERMISSION to animate your avatar, just like when you jump on a dance ball and it gives you a request to animate your avatar, and you click OK. But in this case, the permission is not revoked when you stand up.  Now the prankster can force your avatar to do animations...sex animations, slave animations, clucking like a chicken, etc.

I remember now this was discussed a couple of years ago or more, that a script in an object would retain animation perms for the last person it had got them for, and there was no obvious way to get them revoked. But surely blocking a person is also going to block their scripts? Or, once the script owner finds another victim, the earlier one is going to be freed?

[So Whimsy]

46 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 

What a surprise to see one of my all time favorite songs being randomly posted here<3

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, So Whimsy said:

What a surprise to see one of my all time favorite songs being randomly posted here<3

Not really random.. Hero was the theme that came to me as the thread took a turn.. hehehe

[Mellowdy6]

hello everybody,

Thank you for all your reply about this subject. I must say that usually i m aware about stranger request during SL session. About what happened in this soul stealer shower was not a strange request from the guy who i played with. When you go to dance using poseball, you dont think it will be unsafe to sit on it because thats what you are supposed to do. The same with the shower, if for some reason you are dirty during rp, you just take a shower, nothing strange to do it. The problem is it seem some people use hidden script in common object to hack others avi without previous warning and without permission. Its an insidious method. Thats the point. Even in rp like bloodline system, everyone must be clearly informed about what will happend BEFORE going to bite.

I want to thank you Lindal Kidd because you understood the situation so good. I will do what you told about permission revocation. I will try it.

i would say i am very sad about some comments which seem to blame me. In this case, i am the victim and those judgements are unrespectful. Nobody can blame me because some resident are toxic using insidious method to hack me. Since the beginning of my SL life, i am aware to dont hurt others resident. Its the natural relationship. Its a question of education and respect of SL rules who every users have accepted and signed.

Said that, i wish to all of you a nice day. Take care.

 

Sorry for my english, its not my first language.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Just like the original situation: don't give a damn about those proven dumbheads. It's very gallant to try and be nice to everyone and their kid, sadly you don't gain anything at all from it.

... and you haven't been "hacked" 😑... 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Lillith Hapmouche

[Mollymews]

is a pain when another person captures our permissions with a script and then keeps them permanently and is able to animate our avatar at will in their presence

for those who have never had this happen to them then I am not sure its appreciated how debilitating this can be for the victim

Revoke Permissions only works on rezzed inworld objects. It doesn't work when the script is being worn by another person.  Unless Firestorm have since come up with a fix to their Animation Explorer then we still can't stop animations started by such a script. Nevermind stopping them with the Linden viewer

if the unless since hasn't happened  yet then we pretty much still stuck with a scripting hack to unhack the animation hack perpetrated on us by the villain

a hack to unhack the hack is here:  

 

ps. and if anyone is wondering how a villain can get our permissions into a script they are wearing, if we never said OK to their scripted animation request dialog, then best to not sit on anything ever without setting Revoke On Stand in our viewer

Edited October 10, 2021 by Mollymews

[Innula Zenovka]

16 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

But, if the Soul Stealer owner deletes the copy of the HUD he's wearing and gets a fresh copy from his inventory, THAT one will still have permission to animate you.

I don't think you can actually delete a HUD while you're wearing it, can you?   

Permission to animate an avatar is granted to a particular instance of a script, so if I have two copies of a HUD in my inventory, one which I'm wearing (HUD A) and one which I'm not (HUD B), and  you grant HUD A permission to animate you,  then I can remove  HUD A and replace it and, if I've scripted it in a certain way, it will retain permission to animate you the next time I wear it.    

However, if I wear HUD B,  although the script it contains is apparently identical to that in HUD A, it won't have the same animation permissions, so I can use it to animate you only if you've separately granted animation permissions to HUD B too.

I may be missing something but I can't immediately see a way to copy or transfer animation permissions between different instances of the same script, so that I can obtain permission for one instance of the HUD to animate you, remove and delete it, and then use a separate copy of the HUD (as opposed to the one I've just deleted and then retrieved from Trash) to animate you without first obtaining animation permissions for that script too.

These exploits work only if the two avatars are on the same region, so my advice to people against whom they are used is always to avoid the person griefing you,  and the regions they hang out on, and to AR them for harassment every time they try to use their gadget.    They'll soon get bored.

[Lindal Kidd]

A question, Innula: If I have a HUD with a script that has been given animation permission, and I make a copy of it, does the copy also have the permission?

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't think you can actually delete a HUD while you're wearing it, can you?   

I haven't actually tried it with a HUD but I do know that you can delete an attachment while wearing it. It won't disappear while you are wearing it but the second you detach, it goes into trash because that is where the object itself is now located in your inventory.

[Quistess Alpha]

2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

A question, Innula: If I have a HUD with a script that has been given animation permission, and I make a copy of it, does the copy also have the permission?

As unintuitive as it is, there are multiple ways to copy something and they have different results. I've not tested permissions specifically, but I'd expect making a copy of an unworn thing in your inventory via copy-paste would retain permissions the script might have. rezzing in-world and shift-copy would not retain permissions. If you make a copy of a thing you are wearing, generally the copy seems to revert to whatever (state/permissions) it (was in/had) before you put it on.

[Lucia Nightfire]

Copying while rezzed on the ground will yield a copy without stored perms, but if you copy an object that has stored permissions while it is detached and in your own inventory, the copy will retain those permissions.

This is how griefers maintain their stockpile while griefing.

When an perms container, which is the copy of a master object, loses perms due to the target revoking them, the owner will discard it, copy the master and wear the copy and continue.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

All of this is suggesting that a ne'er-do-well seeking to have a squad of zombie avatars under their control is going to have to use a fresh Hud/device to get the victim's permission, then detach/take back o inventory, where they will need to somehow rename/identify it to keep track of who it will animate... You're talking about a James-Bond style evil maniac, not the typical SL scallywag?