Horizons Land Speculation and Price inflation.

[Coffee Pancake]

These are the land holding groups that own 8 out of 24 parcels on the Horizons region I share some land on (the remaining parcels are owned by 11 individuals and 1 store).

Of the 8 owned by land holding groups, 1 hasn't changed ownership since it was claimed in June 2004. A total of 3 are rentable by residents.

Zero parcels are for sale

This break down is pretty typical for Horizons regions.

Supply is drip fed one parcel at a time to keep the 'get out of bed' land price at 6 figures per parcel.

@Patch LindenCan we please have some more horizons regions to increase supply and help normalize prices, actual people want to live here but can't! Copy pasting existing regions is perfectly fine!

[Exavor Diesel]

Unless Horizons is expanded significantly, e.g. turned into a continent then arguably it will always have an exclusive appeal and thus command higher prices which invariably will put them at greater risk of being inflated, as we see now. Even if they were to double the size of Horizons, we will likely end up with the same scenario. I had a parcel there for sale recently and despite being the cheapest parcel on Horizons, it did not receive much interest and took nearly a month to sell. I question whether or not there is all that much demand for them from the wider population. 

Personally I think they would be better off finishing off Zindra where the SE side of the continent remains void of sims. They could create another city with a road & waterway network. This would better serve the masses. Perhaps deserving of a thread of its own. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Exavor Diesel

[Prokofy Neva]

I think experience has shown that glutting more land to try to reduce prices doesn't work. Because if it is valued like Horizons for its adult status, ambience and flat parcels where you still get to choose the house, plus the easements, people will be found to pay the high prices again to land barons who scoop up the new land.

Historical note: when the Lindens decided to retire the telehubs and put in point-to-point teleportation -- and hence the value of any land around them, where Anshe had a monopoly, was instantly lost -- she figured it out or it was leaked to her and she ceased renting the land and began selling it to those who didn't have a clue, although the appearance of map changes suggested it to those who could figure out that meant p2p.

A group of land barons protested to the Lindens that this was bait and switch, as they kept buying this land on auctions at a high price, whereas the Lindens already knew they were about to devalue it with p2p. So they conceded this and offered a buy back at $5/m. Not the $10 or $20 per meter it had once sold for, but something.

So Anshe seemed to make out well from this buy back as she owned most of the telehub land (the second option was to keep the land, but then have the Linden infohub as it became known set to your group which would agree to develop it and help newbies.

But knowing that Anshe now had a lot of money to spend, the Lindens outsmarted her and laid out brand new pristine white beach sims that were like island in that they were flat and separate, but which were really Mainland, that could be sold by the parcel. I forget the name of this area but it has sims named for artists and scientists, and has beach as well as pine trees. So Anshe was forced to buy all that, to keep her waterfront monopoly, and prices remained high -- and still are, as they are like islands in some ways. Anshe just kept going, buying more island than Mainland, but not leaving the Mainland entirely.

There will always be land barons willing to expand or new ones willing to "invest". So it's not a solution. Meanwhile there really is a glut of Linden Homes at this point, and adding another Linden zoned and controlled area will only make the existing Bellisseria areas empty out and leave some of them hollow like the sims with the old Linden Homes.

There is no solution now except philanthropy, some land owner willing to buy expensive land but sell it cheaply but with some kind of restrictions, like only to people cleared in certain RP groups or something.

[Coffee Pancake]

Nothing quite like a landlords opinion to make my point entirely.

More Linden homes. More Horizons please !!

Individuals are @Linden Lab bulk customers, not land lords/barons.

[Prokofy Neva]

9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Nothing quite like a landlords opinion to make my point entirely.

More Linden homes. More Horizons please !!

Individuals are @Linden Lab bulk customers, not land lords/barons.

No, I've illustrated why you call won't work to accomplish your goal, which evidently is based on hatred of arbitrage, but that's what the Lindens decided to allow long ago (even despite Philip's own aversion to it).

BTW, I'm not in the land selling business, and I like land to be cheap just as much as anyone else. But it's an open market of sorts, and that's ultimately better to keep value.

You're still ignoring the point that there's a glut of Linden Homes now. There is. Look at the map. There are always homes available now, even in the newest Fantasseria area, which hasn't had huge uptake.

I'm not sure the Lindens find Horizons a success. I suppose indirectly, since they earn fees on purchase and sale of Lindens and prices are high. But they can't just go and make another set of Fantasseria sims adult, because the purpose of "adult" really was for adult business and public venues, and they don't allow commerce in Bellisseria and earlier Linden Homes, although they do in Horizons.

Horizons did not work from the perspective of "let's have a home near Linden games" -- they aren't that great a draw.

The space theme Linden content didn't get retained, and hence didn't work.

The "adult" is really excessive to Zindra, where there's also a lot of land at high price.

The draw for Horizons is that it is Linden zoned but allows commerce, and that may even be more desirable than "adult".

If anything, they might find a market for Linden zoned sims that are G and M but allow commerce.

While I get that there's a philosophical underpinning to the notion that "individuals are bulk customers, not land barons" -- in aggregate -- that's really not the case in reality, because individuals are, well, individuals, and buy and abandon land for all sorts of reasons. Land barons really do buy in bulk and that's in LL's interest as a business, even if it is not in the interests of socialism -- although, of course with the regulated Linden rate and the ability to control land supply and auctions, it's not the total capitalism you find evil.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Rowan Amore]

What drew me to Horizons was not the adult rating whatsoever.  It was only the double prim allowance.  Who wouldn't love that?  

[Ardy Lay]

Or you could spend half the money on a parcel elsewhere that is twice the size, then deal with twice the land use fees?  I don't wanna math right now.

[SarahThe Wanderer]

What I liked most about the Horizons not the rate or the double prims, it's the Sci Fi theme that makes me want a parcel there, a few months ago I found a parcel for 80k that's cheap for a Horizon parcel, I was very tempted to buy it and was very close to click the button, but I changed my mind because something kept bothering me and that was the homes around it, it's  nice looking homes but it's out of theme, I'm bored of seeing these traditional homes everywhere in mainland and in private states as well, I wanted a sci fi theme but it's hard to find even in private estates, and the rentals in sci fi RP sims ( they are not many )  you pay over 500L$/wk for 100/75 prims and no privacy whatsoever it's really frustrating, Horizons is the only option, but again it's ruined with out of theme homes.

[Aethelwine]

I went for a little outside park look with a cafe. Not really in or out of theme.

I didn't think I could make much use of the houses provided, unless it was as a small exhibition space. I tried to find something on marketplace that might fit the theme better, but there aren't many options.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:01 AM, SarahThe Wanderer said:

What I liked most about the Horizons not the rate or the double prims, it's the Sci Fi theme that makes me want a parcel there, a few months ago I found a parcel for 80k that's cheap for a Horizon parcel, I was very tempted to buy it and was very close to click the button, but I changed my mind because something kept bothering me and that was the homes around it, it's  nice looking homes but it's out of theme, I'm bored of seeing these traditional homes everywhere in mainland and in private states as well, I wanted a sci fi theme but it's hard to find even in private estates, and the rentals in sci fi RP sims ( they are not many )  you pay over 500L$/wk for 100/75 prims and no privacy whatsoever it's really frustrating, Horizons is the only option, but again it's ruined with out of theme homes.

It's interesting what you say.

I have tried many times over the years to make sci-fi areas or planets or apocalyptic wasteland kind of builds. For awhile I had a whole row of cabins on the ground with a planet above each one, with a kind of UFO theme. These areas never, ever, rented. Maybe one person would come in, and instantly ask to take away the sci-fi stuff. I would leave them out way past the sell-by date because I liked planets and sci-fi but the fact is, it does not rent. 

When I saw a customer put out the Soy UFO house the other day, I hastened to praise him. Of course, if he were in a crowded sim, some other tenant who likes picket fences and little bungalows might complain. But basically, sci-fi just doesn't rent. There are a few of these RP sims -- and that's it.

So if you want to put out a sci-fi build, IM me, I will find a place.

[Feorie Frimon]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:09 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

It's interesting what you say.

I have tried many times over the years to make sci-fi areas or planets or apocalyptic wasteland kind of builds. For awhile I had a whole row of cabins on the ground with a planet above each one, with a kind of UFO theme. These areas never, ever, rented. Maybe one person would come in, and instantly ask to take away the sci-fi stuff. I would leave them out way past the sell-by date because I liked planets and sci-fi but the fact is, it does not rent. 

When I saw a customer put out the Soy UFO house the other day, I hastened to praise him. Of course, if he were in a crowded sim, some other tenant who likes picket fences and little bungalows might complain. But basically, sci-fi just doesn't rent. There are a few of these RP sims -- and that's it.

So if you want to put out a sci-fi build, IM me, I will find a place.

I love that Soy house. I’m going to use it somewhere eventually. 
 

[BJoyful]

I want MORE Horizons also!  When Bellisseria first opened we shopped and scrutinized the Map and found a few (2 to 4 at a time) of parcels on Horizons for L$30k to L$50k in the first year Bellisseria was open.  I think I still have a few LMs with the prices I marked on them.  Ah well, at least I can console myself that I had good instincts about Horizon Land prices (which I expected would increase dramatically).  I chose not to buy them at that time and had good enough reasons not to at that time or I would have.

[Hunny Bunny]

I'd take more of these double prim 1024m parcels in leiu of a house in Bellisseria. Seems it's entirely doable since they already exist, would appear to be in high demand to command such exorbitant prices and a lot less work on the moles to create them. I still haven't even seen a WIP for Bellisseria that is futeristic or even modern and I don't really even care for a theme but a blank slate with some water and a buffer between the parcels as there are in Horizons and Bellisseria.

[missyrideout]

On 9/29/2021 at 3:30 PM, BJoyful said:

When Bellisseria first opened we shopped and scrutinized the Map and found a few (2 to 4 at a time) of parcels on Horizons for L$30k to L$50k in the first year Bellisseria was open.

Yep. I even bought one at 25k. Around that time I also bought a pair of parcels side by side on the "inner waterfront" of Horizons, where you can set sail around the Horizons game sims themselves. I loved that land at that price, but tbh it was too tempting when the value of them doubled+ and I was like, OK I can buy a guitar with this.. lol.  Anyway, at 25-50k/ parcel Horizons was a much more attractive place to live. There is that land group that has held some of the most prime plots on a large number of Horizons sims since their release. They haven't built anything or even rented that I can see. It's odd, and a bit of a waste.

Also, while we're at it , please release a bunch of double prim snow land.

Edited October 7, 2021 by missyrideout