Linden Lab didn't ban gachas, they banned a mechanic of the gacha

[MoiraKathleen]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I can see the correlation. I was in a hair shop yesterday that is often advertised in the Saturday sales event and saw a hair I really liked but didn't want to pay the price. I know eventually it will be on sale for 75L but just no idea how long before that happens.

But when it does go on-sale, it will be on-sale for everyone on that day.   It seemed to me that it wasn't just the not knowing what you were purchasing that was the issue with gachas.  If I remember correctly, Patch has said something like the monthly stash boxes would be OK, because even though no one knows what will be in it before they purchase it, everyone that purchases one that month will be receiving the exact same set of items (and I also believe that things like the stash boxes contain no transfer items, as well).  

There's no correlation really between what items might go on sale at a weekend sales event and purchasing gachas, other than the general randomness of life and not being able to know exactly what's going to happen, or exactly what someone else will do, at some point in the future. 

If you really liked the particular hair you saw, and like the work of that creator, you might just consider buying it at the normal price the creator charges.  Otherwise, it sounds like you don't think the creator's work is worth their normal asking price. 

[Finite]

8 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

But when it does go on-sale, it will be on-sale for everyone on that day.   It seemed to me that it wasn't just the not knowing what you were purchasing that was the issue with gachas.  If I remember correctly, Patch has said something like the monthly stash boxes would be OK, because even though no one knows what will be in it before they purchase it, everyone that purchases one that month will be receiving the exact same set of items (and I also believe that things like the stash boxes contain no transfer items, as well).  

There's no correlation really between what items might go on sale at a weekend sales event and purchasing gachas, other than the general randomness of life and not being able to know exactly what's going to happen, or exactly what someone else will do, at some point in the future. 

If you really liked the particular hair you saw, and like the work of that creator, you might just consider buying it at the normal price the creator charges.  Otherwise, it sounds like you don't think the creator's work is worth their normal asking price. 

I think a correlation is a bit of  reach as well. However, if someone wanted a gacha item bad enough they literally had to just wait a day or 2 after it's initial release for the rare prices to drop when all the resellers start undercutting each other. No one was forced to play the gacha to get the thing they desired.

If its been months or years since the gacha was released and the seller had it in MP for some high price it probably sat there for awhile and the seller would be willing to negotiate something reasonable. I usually put a note in my descriptions that I am willing to negotiate or do trades for other gachas. I also tend to fan through my listings and lower the prices of the ones that have been in there awhile.

[Ecu Zadoq]

My view on all this gatcha stuff is a bit conflicting.  I grew up with trading card games like Magic the Gathering and Pokemon.  Functionally speaking, booster packs for these card games are no different than the gatcha (or loot box) experience.  However, I generally never felt I was being cheated when purchasing them.  I'd even occasionally buy store-made booster packs, where they put excess inventory into random packs to sell their bulk off.

I am not sure how I feel about digital gatchas.  They are certainly utilizing the same mechanics.  However, I usually find more exploitation when it comes to digital gatchas.  This has somewhat soured me to the experience.  Perhaps the lack of a physical good plays a part in this as well.

Onto the topic at hand.  I don't agree with the idea that conveyor style vendors are gatchas.  They are really just single item vendors with a randomized next time.  Some might show you a queue, which certainly encourages you to purchase multiple unwanted items to acquire the item you want.  That doesn't make the item you buy random though, which is the key aspect that I feel defines a gatcha game.  With conveyors, you know what you are buying.

As others have already mentioned, I question how well conveyors will really do, in the long term.  In my opinion, I don't likely see a ton of the more common items selling.  What I imagine will happen, is these conveyor vendors will increase traffic to an area, as people wait for the item they specifically want.  Merchants will be encourage to either make the common items cheaper, or more desirable for other reasons.

All in all though, I would apply the same personal rule to these conveyor vendors that I do any purchase.  If I don't see the value in what I'm acquiring, I do not buy it.  I'm not going to buy something I do not what, on the off chance that I might be able to buy something I do want.  At most, I'll consider waiting to acquire the thing I want, if traffic permits.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Ecu Zadoq

[Finite]

6 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

As others have already mentioned, I question how well conveyors will really do, in the long term.  In my opinion, I don't likely see a ton of the more common items selling.  What I imagine will happen, is these conveyor vendors will increase traffic to an area, as people wait for the item they specifically want. 

I am sure there will be an equal amount of good and bad ones as there were with gachas. The previous one mentioned in this thread I thought was extremely fair. It was all dragons. The same mesh. The only differences were the skins for the dragons. Started at 140L I think and dropped down to 85 I think was the lowest. In the end you get to choose if you wanted the listed one or to wait for yours to come up. But either way  you spent 140L for a very well made dragon mount (or avie depending on which one you played). I ended up buying a handful of mounts to get one of the ones I desired and gave the rest out to friends. The ones that got rares or commons all seemed to be equally happy with the dragon. My guess this will be one of the better ones that won't leave people with bad tastes in their mouths. Others? We'll have to see.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

14 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

My view on all this gatcha stuff is a bit conflicting.  I grew up with trading card games like Magic the Gathering and Pokemon. 

I debated chiming in that by the reasoning of some that gachas are evil & addiction inducing- then they’d really faint when I mentioned baseball card packs & the unknown that entails & how folks have been buying baseball cards without legal intervention for 150+ years.  
But the more illicit part of card collecting is something regionally called pack wars (likely called something different in other places.).   Basically a group of folks (mostly guys as I’ve had to sit thru a few for hubby’s sake) will all buy a pack of cards from the same unopened box.  Whomever winds up opening the pack with the best card (looked up in beckett) gets everybody’s card.

Really spectacularly great odds of winning nothing at all. & don’t kid yourself, these aren’t $5 bets- I’ve been aware of packs costing hundreds of dollar each. 🙀

[Ecu Zadoq]

8 minutes ago, Finite said:

I am sure there will be an equal amount of good and bad ones as there were with gachas. The previous one mentioned in this thread I thought was extremely fair. It was all dragons. The same mesh. The only differences were the skins for the dragons. Started at 140L I think and dropped down to 85 I think was the lowest. In the end you get to choose if you wanted the listed one or to wait for yours to come up. But either way  you spent 140L for a very well made dragon mount (or avie depending on which one you played). I ended up buying a handful of mounts to get one of the ones I desired and gave the rest out to friends. The ones that got rares or commons all seemed to be equally happy with the dragon. My guess this will be one of the better ones that won't leave people with bad tastes in their mouths. Others? We'll have to see.

Certainly, there will definitely be some good apples and some bad apples.  Honestly, I did not see anything wrong with the queue-based machine the original poster showcased.  It not only showcased what you were buying, but also what was going to be available for the next few purchases.  With that information, I could easily decide if I wanted to play this machine or check back another time.

The worst I see these conveyor vendors going is going to be based on the frequency in which rare items show up.  In all cases, however, you are being told what you are getting when you purchase it.  Therefore, the randomized outcome no longer exists.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:18 PM, Finite said:

If it's at an event and you're playing it the thing you want finally pops up and someone comes in and snipes it??

I don’t think that has to be an issue- one of the spots I’ve rented a home from has kiosks in their main office to make payments or add owners etc.  when you click the terminal it pops up a hover text that so&so is currently using this machine for X minutes.  So no one else can interact with it during that time frame.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Ecu Zadoq]

8 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I debated chiming in that by the reasoning of some that gachas are evil & addiction inducing- then they’d really faint when I mentioned baseball card packs & the unknown that entails & how folks have been buying baseball cards without legal intervention for 150+ years.  
But the more illicit part of card collecting is something regionally called pack wars (likely called something different in other places.).   Basically a group of folks (mostly guys as I’ve had to sit thru a few for hubby’s sake) will all buy a pack of cards from the same unopened box.  Whomever winds up opening the pack with the best card (looked up in beckett) gets everybody’s card.

Really spectacularly great odds of winning nothing at all. & don’t kid yourself, these aren’t $5 bets- I’ve been aware of packs costing hundreds of dollar each. 🙀

I didn't really get into the debate of whether gatchas are addicting or not, because I feel that is fairly obvious.  They certainly scratch that desire for surprise, and it can certainly lead to poor decision making.  However, whether or not it actually is poor decision making is kind of based on the individual.

What if these individuals actually treat these pack wars as entertainment?  The cost of going to sporting events or live theatre can easily reach hundreds of dollars, yet we don't hear the same sorts of complaint about those.  Maybe this is just their own form of paid entertainment.  So I question as to how much of the issue is specifically the gatcha style mechanic, or the individual interacting with it (or even some combination of the two).

When I purchased collectable trading cards myself, I would come at it with a limited spending amount to have some fun opening packs.  Looking back on it today, I feel like part of the value was derived from the entertainment due to the surprise.  That said, I recognize the ease of which gachas become detrimental to an individual whom is predisposed towards addiction.  Similar to gambling, I respect the idea that we (as a society) want to limit its impact.

It does, however, destroy the ability to really offer that surprise form of entertainment.  With the restrictions to gambling, and not gatcha (which really are the same, in many ways), we lose things like raffles, sploders, gatchas, and even some aspects of fishing.  They haven't even given a final say as to the issue of breedables, and whether randomized traits are going to be an issue.  Creating a collectable anything becomes an issue, simply because you have to find some way to instill rarity without randomization in order to preserve the collectable value of the item.  It kind of becomes a mess.

I only recently came back to SL, thinking I might get into scripting again.  I had previously planned to make a TCG in SL (quite a few years ago), but now that is likely out the window.  I'm instead considering breedables, but I do somewhat worry if they are next on the chopping block.  So where do I go from there?  Go with something like Bloodlines?  Well, in the past, it was banned in many locations.  A fully experience-system sim is an option, I suppose.  However, the investment is so high, I would need to create something else to fund it.

All in all, I worry that we are heading towards a future in SL where the only thing you will be able to reasonably purchase is clothing, and poseballs.  This is a future I would like to avoid.  So I hope we are very cautious with what we (as a community) push to ban.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

6 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

I didn't really get into the debate of whether gatchas are addicting or not, because I feel that is fairly obvious.  They certainly scratch that desire for surprise, and it can certainly lead to poor decision making.  However, whether or not it actually is poor decision making is kind of based on the individual.

What if these individuals actually treat these pack wars as entertainment?  The cost of going to sporting events or live theatre can easily reach hundreds of dollars, yet we don't hear the same sorts of complaint about those.  Maybe this is just their own form of paid entertainment.  So I question as to how much of the issue is specifically the gatcha style mechanic, or the individual interacting with it (or even some combination of the two).

When I purchased collectable trading cards myself, I would come at it with a limited spending amount to have some fun opening packs.  Looking back on it today, I feel like part of the value was derived from the entertainment due to the surprise.  That said, I recognize the ease of which gachas become detrimental to an individual whom is predisposed towards addiction.  Similar to gambling, I respect the idea that we (as a society) want to limit its impact.

It does, however, destroy the ability to really offer that surprise form of entertainment.  With the restrictions to gambling, and not gatcha (which really are the same, in many ways), we lose things like raffles, sploders, gatchas, and even some aspects of fishing.  They haven't even given a final say as to the issue of breedables, and whether randomized traits are going to be an issue.  Creating a collectable anything becomes an issue, simply because you have to find some way to instill rarity without randomization in order to preserve the collectable value of the item.  It kind of becomes a mess.

I only recently came back to SL, thinking I might get into scripting again.  I had previously planned to make a TCG in SL (quite a few years ago), but now that is likely out the window.  I'm instead considering breedables, but I do somewhat worry if they are next on the chopping block.  So where do I go from there?  Go with something like Bloodlines?  Well, in the past, it was banned in many locations.  A fully experience-system sim is an option, I suppose.  However, the investment is so high, I would need to create something else to fund it.

All in all, I worry that we are heading towards a future in SL where the only thing you will be able to reasonably purchase is clothing, and poseballs.  This is a future I would like to avoid.  So I hope we are very cautious with what we (as a community) push to ban.

These folks have fun & know in advance the risk they take.  They’re out doing that instead of other things.  That’s exactly how I view any expenditure that doesn’t feed, cloth or shelter me. It’s enjoyment & entertainment- my bits of my life I traded at a job for $ & spend how I want.  -& I have no issue with how others spend their own money, they’re responsible for their own actions.  (Which has been discussed & debated on several now locked &/or deleted threads).  
 

I only meant to chime in that I’d been thinking that if a gacha machine deserves banning because it’s gambling, then by the same measure- so shouldn’t baseball cards? (I don’t).  

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

Wow. I can't. That is NOT the same as playing a gacha/conveyor. A creator who chooses whatever item to put out at 60L is one single item compared to a meipon conveyor where you keep playing to get whatever item you want sometimes that number doesn't even show on the "conveyor belt". The numbers are all randomized like a gacha. Good grief, where in your head did you think comparing those two was a good idea?

Why does this bother you so much? Does it compete with your business in some way?

I'm comparing the two as I *think conceptually* about how a lawyer or magistrate or Linden, in this case, could define "randomness" such as to ban it. And they couldn't. Once again, it is the blind nature of the purchase that they and countries like Japan are outlawing.

[Ecu Zadoq]

17 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I only meant to chime in that I’d been thinking that if a gacha machine deserves banning because it’s gambling, then by the same measure- so shouldn’t baseball cards? (I don’t).  

Well, I would have to agree with this specifically.  If gacha vendors are banned specifically due to the unknown result, then this would have to apply to any randomized collectable with an unknown result, including TCGs, sports cards, and even some miniatures/toys.

From what I understand, that is essentially what LL are doing with their gacha ruling.  Essentially, you are not allowed to sell an item where the result of the purchase is unknown.  This also seems to apply to indirect selling, such as worms for fishing.  This last part is where I start to wonder if they are going too far.  How do I sell access to an experience with randomized outcomes, and allow the user to trade what they acquire with other users?

From what I can tell, I cannot.  Doesn't seem to matter if it is fishing for unique fish, or battling monsters for awesome loot.  As long as you have to pay for access, and can trade the result, it seems to break the rules.  I feel that this specifically hurts the game.

[Prokofy Neva]

37 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

I didn't really get into the debate of whether gatchas are addicting or not, because I feel that is fairly obvious.  They certainly scratch that desire for surprise, and it can certainly lead to poor decision making.  However, whether or not it actually is poor decision making is kind of based on the individual.

What if these individuals actually treat these pack wars as entertainment?  The cost of going to sporting events or live theatre can easily reach hundreds of dollars, yet we don't hear the same sorts of complaint about those.  Maybe this is just their own form of paid entertainment.  So I question as to how much of the issue is specifically the gatcha style mechanic, or the individual interacting with it (or even some combination of the two).

When I purchased collectable trading cards myself, I would come at it with a limited spending amount to have some fun opening packs.  Looking back on it today, I feel like part of the value was derived from the entertainment due to the surprise.  That said, I recognize the ease of which gachas become detrimental to an individual whom is predisposed towards addiction.  Similar to gambling, I respect the idea that we (as a society) want to limit its impact.

It does, however, destroy the ability to really offer that surprise form of entertainment.  With the restrictions to gambling, and not gatcha (which really are the same, in many ways), we lose things like raffles, sploders, gatchas, and even some aspects of fishing.  They haven't even given a final say as to the issue of breedables, and whether randomized traits are going to be an issue.  Creating a collectable anything becomes an issue, simply because you have to find some way to instill rarity without randomization in order to preserve the collectable value of the item.  It kind of becomes a mess.

I only recently came back to SL, thinking I might get into scripting again.  I had previously planned to make a TCG in SL (quite a few years ago), but now that is likely out the window.  I'm instead considering breedables, but I do somewhat worry if they are next on the chopping block.  So where do I go from there?  Go with something like Bloodlines?  Well, in the past, it was banned in many locations.  A fully experience-system sim is an option, I suppose.  However, the investment is so high, I would need to create something else to fund it.

All in all, I worry that we are heading towards a future in SL where the only thing you will be able to reasonably purchase is clothing, and poseballs.  This is a future I would like to avoid.  So I hope we are very cautious with what we (as a community) push to ban.

I would encourage you to go into breedables, as they seem to be the highest revenue generating product. And there are all kinds of variations, they don't have to be the kind that need feeding, or breed in some unpredictable way, or whatever. Study the field and do the scripting for sure.

When you speak of "we as a community," well, "we" don't get to make decisions on these matters, the Lindens do.

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

Certainly, there will definitely be some good apples and some bad apples.  Honestly, I did not see anything wrong with the queue-based machine the original poster showcased.  It not only showcased what you were buying, but also what was going to be available for the next few purchases.  With that information, I could easily decide if I wanted to play this machine or check back another time.

The worst I see these conveyor vendors going is going to be based on the frequency in which rare items show up.  In all cases, however, you are being told what you are getting when you purchase it.  Therefore, the randomized outcome no longer exists.

It's only randomized on display, on offering, not upon purchase. This is a subtle point I think some aren't grasping. Since it has been cleared already and operating in world, I wonder why there are so many policemen -- vigilantes, really -- in this thread clamouring to ban it. 

[Ecu Zadoq]

9 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I would encourage you to go into breedables, as they seem to be the highest revenue generating product. And there are all kinds of variations, they don't have to be the kind that need feeding, or breed in some unpredictable way, or whatever. Study the field and do the scripting for sure.

When you speak of "we as a community," well, "we" don't get to make decisions on these matters, the Lindens do.

Breedables are definitely something I am looking into.  However, Linden has only stated that they are alright for now.  They did say they are currently in consultation as to the future of them.  This has me wondering whether they will be next on the chopping block.  Establishing the infrastructure to create a whole line of breedables and accompanying products, only to have them also restricted in a few months, isn't extremely appealing.  That said, they are still something I'm heavily considering.

When I mention "we" as a community, I refer to the developed world as a whole.  Multiple countries are restricting loot boxes currently.  The restriction on digital gachas here in Second Life most definitely is related.  These countries wouldn't just veto a strong source of revenue unless it was to appeal to their constituents.  This is why I state that we, as a community, pushed for these changes.

[Prokofy Neva]

41 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

Breedables are definitely something I am looking into.  However, Linden has only stated that they are alright for now.  They did say they are currently in consultation as to the future of them.  This has me wondering whether they will be next on the chopping block.  Establishing the infrastructure to create a whole line of breedables and accompanying products, only to have them also restricted in a few months, isn't extremely appealing.  That said, they are still something I'm heavily considering.

When I mention "we" as a community, I refer to the developed world as a whole.  Multiple countries are restricting loot boxes currently.  The restriction on digital gachas here in Second Life most definitely is related.  These countries wouldn't just veto a strong source of revenue unless it was to appeal to their constituents.  This is why I state that we, as a community, pushed for these changes.

Not every country that decided this matter did so democratically; even democratic nations like Japan may not have made this regulation with transparency and input of stakeholders, I don't know. Certainly the Lindens' decision has no legal basis unless you think that some vague "climate" -- all that is mentioned -- should be self-execution "law" -- like code. Of course, as a private company they can do what they want.

You could be different and make breedables where there is no random factor, but actually one that you can predict, but you have to be really good at parsing all that math with the genetic traits and such. So some of the breedables have that element where you have to follow their traits, but it's still random. Trust me, most people, like me, will never get into following all that stuff.

[Ecu Zadoq]

5 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Not every country that decided this matter did so democratically; even democratic nations like Japan may not have made this regulation with transparency and input of stakeholders, I don't know. Certainly the Lindens' decision has no legal basis unless you think that some vague "climate" -- all that is mentioned -- should be self-execution "law" -- like code. Of course, as a private company they can do what they want.

You could be different and make breedables where there is no random factor, but actually one that you can predict, but you have to be really good at parsing all that math with the genetic traits and such. So some of the breedables have that element where you have to follow their traits, but it's still random. Trust me, most people, like me, will never get into following all that stuff.

Regardless of how a country came to their laws, those countries made that decision.  As for LL's decision having a legal basis, I disagree with you.  There is no reason they would ban gacha mechanisms unless there was a legal reason they had to.  I imagine they've been working with their consultants until the last moment to try work something out.  I get this impression specifically because of how they mentioned breedables and fishing.  I think they would prefer to allow merchants to continue to use gacha vendors, but I imagine some deadline is approaching and they have to act.

As for my own breedables.  I don't think I would be as interested in creating a system that was completely predictable.  This goes back to what I've been saying.  Randomized outcomes are something that really increase the entertainment value of a product, especially in gaming.  Randomizers have even been created for games that had static outcomes, simply to add that surprise element and increase replay.  So, while breedables do interest me, I am not sure where I would go with my own product, if they were to restrict randomized traits.

[Prokofy Neva]

7 minutes ago, Ecu Zadoq said:

Regardless of how a country came to their laws, those countries made that decision.  As for LL's decision having a legal basis, I disagree with you.  There is no reason they would ban gacha mechanisms unless there was a legal reason they had to.  I imagine they've been working with their consultants until the last moment to try work something out.  I get this impression specifically because of how they mentioned breedables and fishing.  I think they would prefer to allow merchants to continue to use gacha vendors, but I imagine some deadline is approaching and they have to act.

As for my own breedables.  I don't think I would be as interested in creating a system that was completely predictable.  This goes back to what I've been saying.  Randomized outcomes are something that really increase the entertainment value of a product, especially in gaming.  Randomizers have even been created for games that had static outcomes, simply to add that surprise element and increase replay.  So, while breedables do interest me, I am not sure where I would go with my own product, if they were to restrict randomized traits.

They did not have any legal grounds for this decision. There isn't a court case; there isn't a prosecutor's warning; there isn't another country that has banned their citizen from SL. The only reason they are "working with residents" on breedables is because it is a HUGE slice on the economy and they will destroy SL thoroughly if they ban it. They gambled literally that gatchas they could end by siccing the forums regulars on anyone who complained, handing out bans, and threatening severe reprisals -- and there will be plenty of "auxiliary police" who will fan out to make abuse reports.

Go and read the existing court decisions in this matter in the state of California.

Gamification is everywhere, and as I already mentioned elsewhere, I even have a medicine that is electronic and tied to my phone and if I  remember to take it, it enters me into a daily lottery where I can win $5 or $50. So far the State of New York has not banned this hospital for this experiment.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They gambled literally that gatchas they could end by siccing the forums regulars on anyone who complained, handing out bans, and threatening severe reprisals -- and there will be plenty of "auxiliary police" who will fan out to make abuse reports.

Banning a gacha isn't a gamble, the entire loot box industry has been on shaky ground for years, in no small part because people aren't stupid.

It's predatory and anti-consumer on a good day, down right addictive and dangerous on a bad one.

We had our fun, and with plenty of hindsight and given the choice not to have them, it seems we're mostly in varying degrees for the change. It's about time. Good call. 

The rest are a vocal minority shouting at the sky.

[Fyrebird Courier]

The miepon is no different than say, a casper vendor, that you load with varying items.  I could put in 3 items that rotate.  You purchase the item that shows on the screen.  when purchased, it pops up another item.  In this case, you get to see what the next item is that you have a chance of purchasing.  the Only thing that makes it a "gacha" is the key, the grouping of items.  If I loaded a casper vendor with a car, a shirt, and a cat..., they are unrelated.  But if i put all 3 on the same picture, and numbered them, then they become "gacha-like".  

 

Think of it only as "i am purchasing that ONE item".  don't like it, walk away.  If you want that 3d item...you have to decide is it worth 3xpull price to get it.  If that ONE item isn't showing on the list of available items...you leave, and come back.  15 minutes, or 1 hour, or 1 week.  Unless the creator has put a limited time on it, there's nothing that says you HAVE to pull them all right at that moment

 

[SarahThe Wanderer]

I just played the "Meibun" machine in some event, and it's kinda nice, better than Gacha, I can live with that. #justsaying

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings!

Please try to keep the comments on topic.  If you forgot what the topic was, please refer back to the first post that started the thread. 

Thank you!

[Arielle Popstar]

14 hours ago, MoiraKathleen said:

But when it does go on-sale, it will be on-sale for everyone on that day.   It seemed to me that it wasn't just the not knowing what you were purchasing that was the issue with gachas.  If I remember correctly, Patch has said something like the monthly stash boxes would be OK, because even though no one knows what will be in it before they purchase it, everyone that purchases one that month will be receiving the exact same set of items (and I also believe that things like the stash boxes contain no transfer items, as well).  

Ok I didn't know what a stash box was but now that i have looked it up and seen an example on the MP, I would ask how that is not by definition a loot box AND a Gatcha in the full sense of their definitions?:

Loot Boxes are collectible items that contain a random selection of items, including alternate skins, highlight intros, emotes, voice lines, sprays, and more. Link

Do you have a link to where Patch says Stash boxes are ok? If they are then wouldn't it be just an easy thing to convert the Gachas to Stashes? Each pull you get another surprise part of a stash.

Quote

 

There's no correlation really between what items might go on sale at a weekend sales event and purchasing gachas, other than the general randomness of life and not being able to know exactly what's going to happen, or exactly what someone else will do, at some point in the future. 

 

My response was the correlation between the hair sale and the conveyor system, not the gacha and was an answer to this post. For both the hair and a specific item wanted from a conveyor machine, it is a matter of waiting till either item is available for the price one is willing to pay. On the conveyor, the price is set and one simply has to wait till it is the next item up for purchase. No gamble there.

 

[Rowan Amore]

Q: How are subscription boxes affected?

A: Subscription boxes are not affected as long as all subscribers are getting the same content box. Different items being sent to different subscribers on a chance basis is not allowed. 

They are also No Transfer and usually copy so the whole, if I don't like it, I can resell it, aspect isn't there.    They aren't collectibles in the trading collectibles sense.

[HiltonxJessica]

https://gyazo.com/2c8f9f76c33875462f68d95cd80ea10d

how is this skill gaming??? this should be banned aswell....

[Quistess Alpha]

49 minutes ago, HiltonxJessica said:

https://gyazo.com/2c8f9f76c33875462f68d95cd80ea10d

how is this skill gaming??? this should be banned aswell....

If you file a ticket or abuse report I'm sure you could get LL to release the legal reasoning detailing why it's legal in the 30 some odd states "skill games" are allowed in. Such legal reasoning is required to be submitted and reviewed by LL's lawers as part of the application for all skill based games. Also check to make sure the creator of the game has the last name SLSGC, and the game is listed here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_Approved_Participants