Linden Lab didn't ban gachas, they banned a mechanic of the gacha

[Frankie Antonioni]

On 8/29/2021 at 7:51 PM, Chris Nova said:

So how this thing works is you pay whatever linden to "play" and it randomly cycles though the numbers from the top. I was trying to get #2 and as you can all see, that number isnt even on there even after a few pulls but theres two #1's, and two #3's. Its still a game of  chance and the only difference from this and a gacha, is you know what youre getting which I guess is why its allowed. Linden Lab didn't ban gachas, they banned a mechanic of the gacha so you can see what youre buying. Thats it. Its still a game of chance and luck.

Hey Chris, do you know who made that machine?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Frankie Antonioni

[SarahThe Wanderer]

14 hours ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

Hey Chris, do you know who made that machine?

D-Lab, click on the pictures:

 

 

 

[Asadora Summers]

Well. That didn't take long.

The new Gacha vendor apparently.

 

[Machen Savira]

it doesnt matter if "gambling" is legal in your country/state.. LL is based in the U.S... THEY have requirements to be met..
they stopped this type of purchase system because it WAS considered gambling (its basically a slot machine).. and sadly, there are people who have addictions to such a thing..
LL can only handle so many complaints about these issues before they take action to minimize the situation.. especially from people who dont have the disposable income to purchase "fatpacks" and such.. i would assume it gets kinda annoying to constantly see $L10,000+ avatars walking around.. 
im sure gacha resells has/have put a dent into the sale of $Linden by LL as well.. 
they already make a chunk (in the millions) of money from land sales/rentals (http://www.gridsurvey.com/ takes a min to load)

[Alwin Alcott]

47 minutes ago, Machen Savira said:

it doesnt matter if "gambling" is legal in your country/state..

yes it does.
If a foreign company provides gambling in a non gambling allowed country/state it can be forced to disallow sign ups/ users from that country.
and a reason to forbid gacha cóuld be related to something like that because some very large parts of the world are experimenting with that.
For addicted residents LL doesn't get fines... for breaking international laws they do.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Machen Savira]

you basically said the same thing i did.. i worded it differently..
thanks for clearing that up for anyone else who didnt get it!

[Alwin Alcott]

9 hours ago, Machen Savira said:

you basically said the same thing i did.. i worded it differently..
thanks for clearing that up for anyone else who didnt get it!

that partly.. and i left out the jealousy part... SL always been a place where some can buy more than others. But that's the whole world. There's no equal right on "having money "for vane things ( what SL is after all)

Edited September 26, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Jaylinbridges]

The last Gacha is EVIL thread was just closed before I could post my latest encounter with a "Not A Gacha" machine.

These are at the SL Halloween Shop n Hop in the Poppy region (I won't name the vendor.)

Obviously this business owner didn't get the memo.  

Today I bought one common, which is a simple pumpkin car (#6), and the NEXT TWO WERE RARES!  Must be a bug in the software.  So after spending 40 $L, I pulled the lever again and got the pumpkin car with tentacles, just the rare I thought was best.  Cost was another 40 $L

So, for those that passed 2nd grade arithmetic:  40 + 40 = 80 $L.  
Cost to buy each one separately: 250 $L + 375 $L = 625 $L.

I will give the common to a friend, and keep the rare for whizzing around Belli during Halloween.

80 $L is somewhat less than 625 $L these would have cost from the owner without the "Not A Gacha" machine.  

And I even left another Rare for Instant Purchase for the 40 $L pull.  The order of the choices is randomly reset every hour if the machine is not used, so it's changed by now.  I also found a couple other machines with the Rare as the next choice, btw.   I am happy with the Meipon system.  Of course I am not a gambling addict, and would never waste my Lindens if the Rare was not close and was not a bargain.   I assume most SLer's can do the arithmetic and decide if it is worth the play.  For those than cannot, perhaps the owners can ban you from their store, to reduce your temptation.  

After my 80 $L purchase:

Edited October 6, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Coffee Pancake]

The number of items in the queue and how the conveyor machines are loaded matters.

On a machine where you have 10 seen slots and only 8 items, of course it's going to seem very fair.

Now load a machine with an outfit in 6 parts and 20 filler items and factor in the resale value (if they can be flipped).

[Quistess Alpha]

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The number of items in the queue and how the conveyor machines are loaded matters.

On a machine where you have 10 seen slots and only 8 items, of course it's going to seem very fair.

Now load a machine with an outfit in 6 parts and 20 filler items and factor in the resale value (if they can be flipped).

The greater point in this is rather interesting. It's not just a matter of 'this system good/ this system bad' but the configuration or how a particular merchant decides to set up the machine is also important. With regards to skill gaming, both the Creator and the Operator need to be licensed. If and when LL actually decides to set down the rules through policy rather vague blog posts and backroom communications with specific merchants, it probably won't be just a set of rules for the vendor creators, but rules merchants have to follow in configuring their devices as well.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Quistess Alpha

[Sammy Huntsman]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:26 AM, Machen Savira said:

it doesnt matter if "gambling" is legal in your country/state.. LL is based in the U.S... THEY have requirements to be met..
they stopped this type of purchase system because it WAS considered gambling (its basically a slot machine).. and sadly, there are people who have addictions to such a thing..
LL can only handle so many complaints about these issues before they take action to minimize the situation.. especially from people who dont have the disposable income to purchase "fatpacks" and such.. i would assume it gets kinda annoying to constantly see $L10,000+ avatars walking around.. 
im sure gacha resells has/have put a dent into the sale of $Linden by LL as well.. 
they already make a chunk (in the millions) of money from land sales/rentals (http://www.gridsurvey.com/ takes a min to load)

They did this, as they didn't want to spend the litigation costs that it would cost if countries decided to sue actually sued the Lab. 

[Jolly Nova]

Here's my two little worthless cents.

I was a whore for gachas. Loved the random chance, the not knowing, Is the next roll gonna be the rare? Is it going to be the thing I now have ten copies of? Then follows the rush and wonderful feeling of, oh my gosh I got the rare! Yay! 

This new method has robbed me of that. Sure, I'd blindly play the old gachas till I spent more than a fatpack would cost but it was the absolute blindness of the roll that made it fun for me. Now I can see the next 10 or so things (depending on what new machine it is) and it's just... meh. Killed it.

Gacha events are not swamped like they used to be. The Marketplace gachas are getting cheaper and cheaper as people just want to get out of reselling them... Gacha creators have left SL, it's just really changed the whole... scene of Gacha. You can argue that it's the exact same all you want, but I'm seeing otherwise and I definitely feel otherwise.

It also shows how gimmicky the gacha system actually was and it's like lifting blinders off of people. Its almost ALWAYS cheaper to just buy the fatpack. Even if you got all the parts from the Marketplace, you'll still pay a lot for the rares unless you wait for a while.

I used to sell my spare gachas, however I only ever really broke even because it was more of a hobby and something fun to do rather than a business. For those who do that though, it's probably hurt them since some of the really good gacha creators are goners and people are loosing interest. 

I 100% understand why LL had to yeet the old form of gachas and I hold no ill feelings towards it. Businesses gotta do what they gotta do to protect themselves and I'd really prefer to not see LL hurt over something that could have been prevented.

I'm no longer interested in gachas. The current form doesn't really jive with my idea of fun and that's okay. That's just my opinion and how I feel about it. 

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Jolly Nova said:

I'm no longer interested in gachas. The current form doesn't really jive with my idea of fun and that's okay. That's just my opinion and how I feel about it.

i think merchants are still working this out.  If the long conveyor belt leads to a drop in revenue then I think we will see the one drop machine come into vogue

the one drop machine has a conveyor length of one.  There is only one item in the window. Buy it and another appears. And because the customer can see the item before they buy then it conforms with the policy as wrote

in revenue terms it costs the customer one extra payment over the traditional zero drop (gacha) machine to maybe get the item they want. Unlike a ten drop machine (10 items in the window) which can cost 11 payments to get an item wanted

the multiple drop (more than one item in the window) machine seems like a good idea, but I am not sure that it is overall, at least not for traditional players like yourself

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

I think we will see the one drop machine come into vogue

One drops are the closest you can get to the feel of pumping an old style gacha .. the one drop is the cost to play, creates a sense of attachments and sunk cost, and then keep rolling with every next roll having the chance to suck you in for just one more try, think you're done and make that last purchase and the machine can tease. Way more addictive than a 5 or 10 drop which can kill the mood at a glance.

Hmmm  .. reading that back makes me think one drops should probably be banned too ... 

 

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Hmmm  .. reading that back makes me think one drops should probably be banned too ... 

 

i was pretty surprised when Linden rewrote the policy to allow conveyors.  I initially thought the ban on gacha was about loot box gambling. Seems it wasn't

i think that coming to a venue near you sooner or later, we are going to see variable pull pricing on one drop machines.  Pay L$1 for the first displayed item, then say L$50 for each successive item. When person stops feeding the machine at L$50 a pop then reset to display the L$1 item for the next player. This would be compliant with the policy as wrote, as each item is known before purchase

ps. Might even be that somebody will give L$0 (freebie) for the first item a go

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Mollymews

[Coffee Pancake]

6 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i was pretty surprised when Linden rewrote the policy to allow conveyors.  I initially thought the ban on gacha was about loot box gambling. Seems it wasn't

i think that coming to a venue near you sooner or later, we are going to see variable pull pricing on one drop machines.  Pay L$1 for the first displayed item, then say L$50 for each successive item. When person stops feeding the machine at L$50 a pop then reset to display the L$1 item for the next player. This would be compliant with the policy as wrote, as each item is known before purchase

ps. Might even be that somebody will give L$0 (freebie) for the first item a go

 

I want to put down my current major project, script that vendor and then give it away just to see the train wreck.

Which is a bad sign.

[Quistess Alpha]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:23 AM, Mollymews said:

i was pretty surprised when Linden rewrote the policy to allow conveyors.  I initially thought the ban on gacha was about loot box gambling. Seems it wasn't

i think that coming to a venue near you sooner or later, we are going to see variable pull pricing on one drop machines.  Pay L$1 for the first displayed item, then say L$50 for each successive item. When person stops feeding the machine at L$50 a pop then reset to display the L$1 item for the next player. This would be compliant with the policy as wrote, as each item is known before purchase

ps. Might even be that somebody will give L$0 (freebie) for the first item a go

While we're designing the most anti-consumer vendor, make it cost 2-3 times the price for a rare, or better yet, weight the cost based on how many unique items you've gotten so far, if it's the last item you need for a set, 5x price.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Quistess Alpha said:

While we're designing the most anti-consumer vendor, make it cost 2-3 times the price for a rare, or better yet, weight the cost based on how many unique items you've gotten so far, if it's the last item you need for a set, 5x price.

Or .. make it get 1L cheaper with every sequential roll, and fudge the odds to the rares it knows the player is missing get further and further apart. Hit a 0L$ pay price, game over, come back tomorrow.

[Rosie Bergiere]

Simply put:

Before, you had a picture showing everything you could get at random.
Now you have a picture with a number saying what you can have next... at random.

You can say you ban roses, and pour a whole litter of purple food colouring and lavender essence on the rose. It'll still be a rose... just colored different and smelling like a lavender-washed... rose.

Gacha will be gacha will be gacha. Needs banning all the same.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Rosie Bergiere said:

Simply put:

Before, you had a picture showing everything you could get at random.
Now you have a picture with a number saying what you can have next... at random.

You can say you ban roses, and pour a whole litter of purple food colouring and lavender essence on the rose. It'll still be a rose... just colored different and smelling like a lavender-washed... rose.

Gacha will be gacha will be gacha. Needs banning all the same.

The simple difference being, you can see exactly what you are purchasing NOW which is all that matters according to LL.