Attention LL marketing - IMVU is after you

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

It has a mobile app though! That’s a huge market that SL needs to penetrate. Never played it so I don’t know what the experience is like but I can see that it’s a graphical interface and you see your avatar. We need that. 

And, 4000 credits (money for buying things) for signing up.   I think with "games" or worlds like IMVU and Fortnite were the user base is 13 and up, I can see why VR chat and chat in general has gained so much popularity.  

Edited January 27, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

And that point is .... What exactly? That Oranges are preferred over Apples by a Generation that is barely within the Apple's target demographic?

I prefer a nice kiwi.

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Amazing how many people are missing the point in this thread. 

I see things in his OP...however, we've had so many "SL needs to be marketing" threads that go nowhere.  So, I'm just talking.  SL does needs to up it's game plan so to speak though.  Did you even read Chic Aeon's post?  Do you get it that creator's incomes are way down.  SL has the best stuff and not as good marketing, and for marketing, there is no paycheck for me.  So, I just throw out ideas. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

And, 4000 credits (money for buying things) for signing up.   I think with "games" or worlds like IMVU and Fortnite were the user base is 13 and up, I can see why VR chat and chat in general has gained so much popularity.  

Of course, when your target group isn't employed and most 13 year olds aren't, handing them 4000 credits is a big draw.  

[FairreLilette]

4 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Of course, when your target group isn't employed and most 13 year olds aren't, handing them 4000 credits is a big draw.  

This is true, but if IMVU can do it, shell out some kind of "money"...why can't LL?  Everybody (almost) likes money.  One resident who is on the forum from time to time doesn't like lindens...she gives them all away.  I guess she means her stipend.  She doesn't go inworld much, she said.    

Edited January 27, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Chaser Zaks]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

This is true, but if IMVU can do it, shell out some kind of "money"...why can't LL?  Everybody (almost) likes money.  One resident who is on the forum from time to time doesn't like lindens...she gives them all away.  I guess she means her stipend.  She doesn't go inworld much, she said.    

The question is how much is 4,000 credits?

There is also the issue of, how does LL prevent people from making alt after alt to get credits? I presume they could probably track who does the tutorial and check against the ID0 and recently rewarded IP addresses.

[Chic Aeon]

23 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Of course, when your target group isn't employed and most 13 year olds aren't, handing them 4000 credits is a big draw.  

I can't speak to IMVU since I haven't been there, but Sansar allowed folks that young and we rarely saw them (when they were there it was pretty obvious LOL). It was mostly an over 21 crowd. 

BUT regardless, I think that starting money IS a big draw. They have that in Sinespace and it had me going through all the areas if the store and decorating my VERY LOVLY FREE HOUSE with big big yard --  and then exploring.  When you get to a new platform and you can't even buy some gifts because they are in vendors and you have NO money at all, it ain't fun. 

 

When I joined  SL there were still camping chair (and easels and guitars etc etc) although not as many as had been I understand. You could earn money on Trivia at Calla and I really really did that a lot. Eventually I earned enough to upload some textures and started my own tiny store.  I never ever bought linden dollars. And back then the Marketplace wasn't that popular. Folks shopped very much inworld. So I rented a nice little shop in a mainland mall somewhere (mainland was much prettier then but still has ugly spots of course) and now I have been a long time creator.   

 

Officially they (Ebbe for one) has said that it isn't that folks don't sign up -- it is the RETENTION that is the issue. And having no money and no way to get money is certainly part of that.   We had a LOT more traffic in Sansar when the quests were going on. You didn't make much money on each quest, but you learned your way around navigating and such and eventually you had some Sandollars that you could spend in the store to spiffy up your avatar or you home.  

 

Money from quests and gift money couldn't be taken out of Sansar, only used within world. Same in Sinespace so there really isn't a gaming for RL dollars scenario.  

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[FairreLilette]

12 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

There is also the issue of, how does LL prevent people from making alt after alt to get credits? I presume they could probably track who does the tutorial and check against the ID0 and recently rewarded IP addresses.

I thought that too after I wrote it - how to know it's not a bunch of alts.  One sure way is to have the payment go through after the person is verified.  Or other ways as you suggest.  

But, I have no idea how much 4K credits are.  

[FairreLilette]

4 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Officially they (Ebbe for one) has said that it isn't that folks don't sign up -- it is the RETENTION that is the issue. And having no money and no way to get money is certainly part of that. 

See, I never had this problem.  I did work in SL on my first stint in around 2006, but I also always bought lindens if I wanted more than I made.  I still buy lindens today if I want stuff.  

As far as retention, I also see there is a difficulty in making a mesh avatar.  They aren't that easy and I'm even making one now with my AIDA head I fairly recently purchased and it's taking hours just to find something that looks good on her to wear.  Getting her the right shape, hair, eyes, make-up, clothes, shoes...it all takes time to develop a persona.  Even just learning the HUD/HUDS takes time.

In my first two times in SL which were Classic avatars only, it took me about a month to get my avatar where I wanted it to be with shape, one hair, one skin and an AO and some dances.  One you had all those down with a Classic, the rest was just buying clothing and accessories and decorating a home.  It's way more complicated than that now.  How to make a mesh avatar class for newbies to go to is not a bad idea but it still doesn't exist, not that I know of.  I have thought about starting such an avatar making class but I am not that good at it, so I'd probably hire people who are.  But, with coronavirus, I have things on hold for a bit yet.

As far as retention, it needs work to.  Linden Eggs sounds great to me...or something...anything.  

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I thought that too after I wrote it - how to know it's not a bunch of alts.  One sure way is to have the payment go through after the person is verified.  Or other ways as you suggest.  

But, I have no idea how much 4K credits are.  

And how does someone young verify?  I was lucky.  When I started, I found a club that had events 24/7 with a prize board.  They had a theme which you could dress for or naked.  It wasn't an adult club so naked was the extent of anything adultish.  What did I care if someone saw my naked noob butt?  Depending on the size of the group, usually between 5 and 10 people, I often got between 100-250L.  Easy money for dancing around and chatting with people.

Back then, it was also much easier to make something to sell as @Chic Aeonmentioned.  Today, with most things being mesh, there's a huge learning curve in that area.  

It's not a bad idea to have people start with some Lindens.  The thing is, most games my son plays also have things to purchase in game.  He works, he spends what he wants.  If he doesn't want to spend, he doesn't.  But he still.plays the games regardless.

[Paul Hexem]

24 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

There is also the issue of, how does LL prevent people from making alt after alt to get credits?

That's "easy". Initial credits can only be spent on the MP and can't be cashed out. Merchants can choose to accept said credits or not, when they make a listing. 

[Chic Aeon]

8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I thought that too after I wrote it - how to know it's not a bunch of alts.  One sure way is to have the payment go through after the person is verified.  Or other ways as you suggest.  

But, I have no idea how much 4K credits are.  

I did some research via Google and YouTube and it appears that 4K would be about 2.5K lindens here BUT prices are very different there so it really doesn't equate well.   I can make a damn good looking avatar for 5 lindens here and have done so throughout the years for blog posts,  So even if they gave new folks 100 lindens with all the good free and low cost stuff on the market that would be plenty. IMVU is apparently quite different than most of the markets we are used to so there aren't a lot of super cheap things (again just quick research). 

 

BUT I had tons of money left over from Sinespace's entry money and I decorated a house and got myself together.    So it varies. When my friend joined SL before me they gave folks 250 if you put in your name and likely a credit card.   You can't take 250 lindens OUT of SL --- besides all the hassle of doing so, so that would be a very reasonable amount (again) I think with no issues.

 

I never bought any money in Sansar either but uploads were free there along with spaces to work in so that helped a lot and there were nice free items from other creators (likely there still are; my stuff is still up there :D).   

 

Below Chic in Sinespace. Chic liked Sinespace but abhorred the Unity creation process. 

 

[FairreLilette]

9 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Merchants can choose to accept said credits or not, when they make a listing. 

So, merchants would have to go through all their listings and check ACCEPT CREDITS?  Isn't there any easier way.  LOL

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

So, merchants would have to go through all their listings and check ACCEPT CREDITS?  Isn't there any easier way.  LOL

Or they create a new category.  Credits Only.  Merchants could put older items that fit classic avatars.  All the old mesh with s, m l sizing.  Older skins they don't plan to update.  All kinds of items maybe at 10L a piece or less.  It would be a great way to spruce up your avatar.

[Chic Aeon]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

So, merchants would have to go through all their listings and check ACCEPT CREDITS?  Isn't there any easier way.  LOL

I don't think that is a viable option -- the "can't turn into USD dollar" thing -- unless of course that becomes the norm for everyone - so no "gifts" could be transferred out.   Any entry gift that will require a lot of programming in the backend would no doubt be shuttled into the waste bin in a hurry.  It would need to be just regular lindens. 

 

So in let's say someone wanted to game the system and "cash out".  And let's say that the entry gift was 250 lindens (which you CAN do a lot with). Someone would need to make ten avatars and transfer the money to one of them (or a main) to make 2500 lindens (less than ten bucks even before fees) THEN they would need to turn that into USD (fees) and then transfer it out (more fees plus lots and lots of hassles).  And it would likely be VERY obvious from the transactions that this was not "earned" money.   I haven't cashed out in a year and a half but I think you probably need $10 US?  So they would need more then ten avatars really.  

 

A simple statement on the sign up page stating that this money could not be converted to USD  would hopefully be sufficient.  Accounts could be canceled if caught.    The new account could use the money inworld on on the Marketplace.   That way there is MUCH LESS WORK INVOLVED -- and I am guessing that the less work the better -- these days especially. 

[Chic Aeon]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

Or they create a new category.  Credits Only.  Merchants could put older items that fit classic avatars.  All the old mesh with s, m l sizing.  Older skins they don't plan to update.  All kinds of items maybe at 10L a piece or less.  It would be a great way to spruce up your avatar.

That's actually a good idea I think, but again, I am not getting the feeling that any changes that take much work will come to pass (see comment just above). I mean we haven't had a current map in well over a week now. I changed my whole sim and it still looks the same LOL.     

[Wulfie Reanimator]

3 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I signed up in IMVU once but that game is totally broken. I could not get to walk my avatar even a single inch, no matter what I tried, WASD, arrow keys, game controller, Thrustmaster HOTAS F/A-18 flight stick, nothing worked. Needless to say, I binned the client.

IMVU doesn't have "walking around" or free movement of any kind.

It's literally Poseball: The Game

Minus the sexy part.

[Amina Sopwith]

17 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

IMVU doesn't have "walking around" or free movement of any kind.

So I wasn't being thick when I couldn't go anywhere or leave the tiny space I was in!

What's the point of the place? How do any of the roleplay areas even work? Is it really just "get dropped in on one other random person" over and over again? 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

20 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

So I wasn't being thick when I couldn't go anywhere or leave the tiny space I was in!

What's the point of the place? How do any of the roleplay areas even work? Is it really just "get dropped in on one other random person" over and over again? 

It's a 3D chatroom, not that different from the "hangout sims" of SL. There's a search for places to go to, which are basically miniature sims filled with poseballs that you click on to "move there," which means your avatar will be at that specific spot doing that specific spot's animation.

Disclaimer: I speak with experience from 10 years ago, but I don't imagine it has revolutionized itself.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

I don't think that is a viable option -- the "can't turn into USD dollar" thing -- unless of course that becomes the norm for everyone - so no "gifts" could be transferred out.   Any entry gift that will require a lot of programming in the backend would no doubt be shuttled into the waste bin in a hurry.  It would need to be just regular lindens. 

 

So in let's say someone wanted to game the system and "cash out".  And let's say that the entry gift was 250 lindens (which you CAN do a lot with). Someone would need to make ten avatars and transfer the money to one of them (or a main) to make 2500 lindens (less than ten bucks even before fees) THEN they would need to turn that into USD (fees) and then transfer it out (more fees plus lots and lots of hassles).  And it would likely be VERY obvious from the transactions that this was not "earned" money.   I haven't cashed out in a year and a half but I think you probably need $10 US?  So they would need more then ten avatars really.  

 

A simple statement on the sign up page stating that this money could not be converted to USD  would hopefully be sufficient.  Accounts could be canceled if caught.    The new account could use the money inworld on on the Marketplace.   That way there is MUCH LESS WORK INVOLVED -- and I am guessing that the less work the better -- these days especially. 

When I mentioned it, I didn't know that with IMVU you cannot cash out.  Or, maybe you can?  I don't know.  But, if there is cashing out, with IMVU it doesn't seem to be a problem or they have some kind of "system".

So, therefore, I still think a grid-wide egg hunt with eggs you match up to color, or a specific sequence, and perhaps even speckled eggs for a really great prize might be worthwhile to think about.

It would need a Linden Egg terminal where one could drop the winning sequenced eggs in to cash out.

Since I'm not a scripter, I don't know if my hypothetical egg game above would or could work though.

EDIT:  I only edit scripts and make them do what I want but I cannot write one from nothing.  I just modify to my own liking or have scripts do what I want them too.  This would take a scripter to figure out.

Edited January 27, 2021 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

At present the youngest member of Generation Y (Millennials) is 25 years old. The oldest turning 40 this year.

Holy crap - are my kids that old already?  Geez, how time flies.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

When I mentioned it, I didn't know that with IMVU you cannot cash out.  Or, maybe you can?  I don't know.  But, if there is cashing out, with IMVU it doesn't seem to be a problem or they have some kind of "system".

So, therefore, I still think a grid-wide egg hunt with eggs you match up to color, or a specific sequence, and perhaps even speckled eggs for a really great prize might be worthwhile to think about.

It would need a Linden Egg terminal where one could drop the winning sequenced eggs in to cash out.

Since I'm not a scripter, I don't know if my hypothetical egg game above would or could work though.

EDIT:  I only edit scripts and make them do what I want but I cannot write one from nothing.  I just modify to my own liking or have scripts do what I want them too.  This would take a scripter to figure out.

Kind of like Linden Realms.  http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Realms_-_The_Search_For_Magellan&diff=1209835&oldid=1208395

[bigmoe Whitfield]

4 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

The question is how much is 4,000 credits?

There is also the issue of, how does LL prevent people from making alt after alt to get credits? I presume they could probably track who does the tutorial and check against the ID0 and recently rewarded IP addresses.

Hardware id,  you can not change a few hardware id's, I'm not saying which ones, but there are certain ones that are logged by the client that you can not physically change,  even with linux.

[ClariceRose]

I didn't read all the replies but there is a news article about a Chinese game company and other investors that invested in IMVU. The article was made in the last few days, Not sure if I can put the link here, so I haven't.

I tried IMVU a year or so ago, hated it, was there maybe a few days then deleted it. It seems too cartoonish and the marketing seems to be for people under 25. I'm not part of that market.

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

So, merchants would have to go through all their listings and check ACCEPT CREDITS?  Isn't there any easier way.  LOL

Well, I did put "easy" in quotes.

The hard way is how LL does everything on the MP, why should this suggestion be any different?