Catwa HDPRO

[Marianne Little]

I just watched a video of Catwas new head(s). Intresting for me, since Catwa has added more rigging to the face, so we have more flexibility in editing. This is brand new, I have never seen it before. It makes buying it more tempting. I noticed how one can adjust the eyes now, and when the video came to editing ears, I laughed. In a good way. The facial expressions look better too.

I wonder how much this will impact us, how heavy they will be to wear. It appear to use more HD and more materials, even materials on lashes? I will not even try to figure it out, maybe some clever people will.

If it was a reduced price the first weekend, I think I would buy it. Unless the demos make me change my mind. I have got the demos from the MP and will try to test them.

 

[Skell Dagger]

As I hope has been noted, I never 'shill' for Catwa on this forum while remaining a regular poster and helping out where I can with avatar customisation advice for any brands that I have familiarity with. However, I do want to note that - as a Catwa CSR - I'm happy to answer any questions in this thread that anyone has about this new range of heads, or offer advice if anyone needs it.

[karynmaria]

Thanks for posting this!  I totally missed the release of this and I am also off to get a demo.  

[RitaCallisto]

Not exactly thrilled over it's price point. With how expensive buying L has become, it'll probably be a while before I can get one of these(gotta prioritize the land rent).

It looks nice overall, though.

From what little fiddling i've done so far on the demo though, I can say i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the slider diversity. Not really a bad thing, but certainly something one may need to get use to.

Edited September 17, 2020 by RitaCallisto

[Kitteh Whiskers]

I want this but I'm still being punished 

[Raevyn Addams]

WOW! Okay, I am the proud owner of a good majority of Lelutka and Lelutka Evo heads, but seeing this made me strongly consider going back to Catwa for the first time in many years. Catwa used to feel somewhat dated to me and pretty much left behind in the Bento heads race, so I shied away from it, but this looks impressive enough to have me optimistically curious and a tad excited too.

I expected the cost would be high as is the case with most new heads, or at least with more advanced features etc than what we've already seen. Yes, Second Life in general is starting to become expensive for the big-ticket items (eg; heads, bodies, animesh, AOs, etc) and I seem to be spending an awful lot more now compared to what I used to). But again I think its likely due to the fact there's a lot more included or involved in things now compared to the comparatively basic items and objects available years ago (and yes, this a generalized statement of MY perception before someone gets offended and has to prove how wrong I am).

As a consumer, I have come to expect more, whether that's detailed mesh, original bento animations, or a degree of realism that gives objects one-up over competitors. Of course these advancements come at a cost; the creators are businesses after all, not charities. But if something really "grabs" me then I'll pay for it regardless (eventually).

Knowing me, I likely will purchase this, and hope more is released for it in the not too distant future.

[Rowan Amore]

The only reason I switched from catwa to lelutka was that so few new skins were being made for it.  It seems everyone jumped on the genus bandwagon and even when they were unavailable and unsure about returning, all I saw were skins for genus.  Maybe with this newest release from catwa, we'll see more new skins, too.  

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

The only reason I switched from catwa to lelutka was that so few new skins were being made for it.  It seems everyone jumped on the genus bandwagon and even when they were unavailable and unsure about returning, all I saw were skins for genus.  Maybe with this newest release from catwa, we'll see more new skins, too.  

My favorite skins are Deetalez and I wear them pretty much every day.  I wish I could have them all.  So, with my love of Deetalez, when I got my first Catwa head, Deetalez makes Catwa, skins were never a problem for me.  Then I go look and the MAJOREDGED one has a Deetalez skin which I recognized before ever seeing there was a Deetalez tag in the corner.  The minute I looked at the MajorEdged one, I knew I liked it, but I think I also like it because of the Deetalez skin.

I like the MajorEdged one.  I will most definately be trying it.  I own two Catwa heads plus some super cheap or freebies I never use and I was planning on perhaps getting a Lelutka but I will definitely be trying MajorEdged too.  Genus, the eyes have some problems...so I pass on those heads.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

My favorite skins are Deetalez and I wear them pretty much every day.  I wish I could have them all.  So, with my love of Deetalez, when I got my first Catwa head, Deetalez makes Catwa, skins were never a problem for me.  Then I go look and the MAJOREDGED one has a Deetalez skin which I recognized before ever seeing there was a Deetalez tag in the corner.  The minute I looked at the MajorEdged one, I knew I liked it, but I think I also like it because of the Deetalez skin.

I like the MajorEdged one.  I will most definately be trying it.  I own two Catwa heads plus some super cheap or freebies I never use and I was planning on perhaps getting a Lelutka but I will definitely be trying MajorEdged too.  Genus, the eyes have some problems...so I pass on those heads.

The eyes were always the downside of genus for me.  The hud was a nightmare compared to catwa and lelutka, too.  It also seemed as though no matter which head I tried from genus, there was always something off about the shape of the jaw and what you could do with it.  

[Marianne Little]

7 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

As I hope has been noted, I never 'shill' for Catwa on this forum while remaining a regular poster and helping out where I can with avatar customisation advice for any brands that I have familiarity with. However, I do want to note that - as a Catwa CSR - I'm happy to answer any questions in this thread that anyone has about this new range of heads, or offer advice if anyone needs it.

Must we use the layers, because I could not see if it has a BoM only version with HD parts? I was hoping a "lighter" head was included for everyday use. I do not need so much makeup, and do not use gloss effects when I do most of my SL things.

Are you allowed to say if Catwa has a flash sale? 😉 Wink if we shall follow Catwa's social media close this weekend!

The price and the possible triangles/materials textures is a bit much.

But I really like the new sliders.

[Skell Dagger]

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Must we use the layers, because I could not see if it has a BoM only version with HD parts? I was hoping a "lighter" head was included for everyday use. I do not need so much makeup, and do not use gloss effects when I do most of my SL things.

There is no BoM-only head because it's not needed. The head is a single layer with HD 'patches' on the ears, mouth, and eye mask location (think of the eye mask like a sleep mask, covering the eyes and brows). You can convert the single head layer to use a BoM skin or use an applier skin, so if you convert it to BoM then you have what you want: a BoM version with HD parts.

There are no additional layers such as the blush, hairbase, and neck tattoo areas you may be used to if you're familiar with Catwa's other heads. While appliers can be used for the skin the head range was developed with the intention of use with BoM, which is what you'll be seeing from most major head brands going forward. To that end, if you want to use a skin applier there is no layer for an additional hairbase applier on top. You will need either a skin applier that has a hairbase on it, or to use a hairstyle with a 'built-in' hairbase (like those being offered by Stealthic, Exile, etc).

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I was hoping a "lighter" head was included for everyday use.

For the level of detail included, the head itself is not going to add much to your complexity if you like to keep things low. This was my complexity last night:

I was wearing: Catwa HDPRO MajerEdged, Maitreya Lara, Maitreya Lara Flat Chest, pants by Blueberry, a t-shirt by Krankhaus, a jacket by Psycho:Byts, hair by Exile, boots by GOS, and a shoulder morpher (full worn list, if you're curious). I was well under 30k complexity (in fact, I could have cut that even more by removing the Maitreya flat chest, since it wasn't visible in that outfit). Texture area and VRAM of the heads will, obviously, depend on whether you're using any HD appliers or materials options. Out of the box, converted to BoM and with no HD appliers or materials you're looking at 54,995 KB texture memory, and VRAM of 67,480 KB (Bento Ear version; I didn't check on the non-Bento or earless versions.) You'll need to clear some of the default enabled materials in order to see those numbers, but if you don't use materials then you won't want those enabled anyway.

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Are you allowed to say if Catwa has a flash sale?

There is no intention of holding a flash sale. Catwa has been working on these heads for a year, and - while other big name head brands are currently holding "Covid sales" their regular prices are on a par with (if a little below) HDPRO. This is a new advance in mesh head technology, so the price shouldn't be compared to existing technology. That's why HDPRO costs L$900 more than Catwa's own existing Bento mesh heads. Don't forget that if you have existing Catwa store credit you can use that against the cost, too

Please note that - if you're using a female HDPRO head with Maitreya Lara, you'll need to ensure that your body is at least the current latest version (v5.3) and ensure that you use one of the two 'Type 1' neck settings in the Lara HUD. HDPRO makes use of the new 'universal neck' normals, which is what those 'Type 1' settings are intended for. See below for the location on the body's HUD:

Edited September 18, 2020 by Skell Dagger

[steeljane42]

45 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

For the level of detail included, the head itself is not going to add much to your complexity if you like to keep things low. This was my complexity last night:

Complexity is quite irrelevant number given how it's calculated. Upgradeable version of the old non bento Catwa Jessica head only has 9288 complexity while being a 3.93m triangles (yes, millions) monster.

Triangles and VRAM is where it's at. At least for those who care about it. VRAM you've already included, I'll just throw in the triangles number - ~107k for the demo version. Which is more or less the same as Lelutka Evo heads (~87k for the head/teeth/eyes).

---

Now to my opinion on them.

Looks and features are purely subjective, so different ones appeal to different people, but after playing with demos for a bit I feel like it's same old Catwa style, just with new bells and whistles. At least the current two. If someone was a fan of their old heads, they'll probably like new ones, as it's a clear upgrade over the older ones (I still find animations cartoony and exaggerated, though). But I never liked older Catwa heads too much myself and don't like new ones either. I won't say they are bad, though, just "not for me".

Edited September 18, 2020 by steeljane42

[Skell Dagger]

58 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Triangles and VRAM is where it's at. At least for those who care about it. VRAM you've already included, I'll just throw in the triangles number - ~107k for the demo version. Which is more or less the same as Lelutka Evo heads (~87k for the head/teeth/eyes).

MajerEdged Bento Ears full version:

[Laurel Aurelia]

So I definitely wasn't late going to work today because I was messing around with the new heads. >.>And apologies ahead of time as this will be a bit of a ramble so I  will save you by numbering my first impressions.

1.First thing I noticed when I put on the head was how well my Lelutka skin worked on the head. No weird lines around the eyes and or the nose that I am so used to seeing when I wear something not meant for my current head. That was a pleasant surprise. Of course the mouth area didn't look as good as I would have liked, but that is what I get for trying to wear a skin that was not made for it.

2.I am still trying to work through how to use the new hud. Reminds me a lot of the new Lelutka one, but its a great design - very sleek looking. Currently, my only caveat with it is (and this isn't just Catwa issue) is that I want to move the hud over a tad  . I realize I could attach it to a different part of the screen, but I just want to be able to scoot it a little so that its not sitting on top of my other huds. That upper left corner is prime screen real estate!

3. Love all the material layers provided. I never thought I would say this, but I love shiny, textured skin (in SL).

4. I loved the brow that was available in eyes makeup section. Is there a bom version of them provided with the head? Brows in my opinion are best on BOM layers due to the alpha glitches of hair/eyelashes that sometime render them invisible. In general I would have loved to get some basic bom tattoo layers (freckles,  wrinkles, makeup, etc) to go along with the head as they are my preferred application of skin details.

5. I tried on both heads, but preferred the Majer Edged. I think it's slightly less soft looking and thus looks a bit older which I definitely prefer. I THINK. Honestly I am not sure what the differences are between the two heads as when I was looking at them, I was not caffeinated and therefore barely a person.

6. I like the idea of the additional sliders , but  didn't end up using them. To be honest, I am a basic looking avatar so I am not sure how much use these will get from me.

7.  Still not a fan of most of the facial aos. They lean toward the cute and I would like something a little bit more subdued. Also I wish that they didn't all automatically play when you initially put the head on.

Will I buy it? Jury is still out for me. I will say, I really appreciate that it was available to demo via the market place. Slogging through a laggy  overcrowded sim would have made the experience way less pleasant for me.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

17 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

As I hope has been noted, I never 'shill' for Catwa on this forum while remaining a regular poster and helping out where I can with avatar customisation advice for any brands that I have familiarity with. However, I do want to note that - as a Catwa CSR - I'm happy to answer any questions in this thread that anyone has about this new range of heads, or offer advice if anyone needs it.

Will there be a release that is the equivalent for all existing heads, or will some of us need to change looks (new head new look)?

[Skell Dagger]

56 minutes ago, Laurel Aurelia said:

I am still trying to work through how to use the new hud.

The last tab contains a user guide. If you want more detail about what each section does, check out this link on Catwa's website. I'm currently working on a detailed (less text-heavy) tutorial post for my blog, although it will take a couple of days to complete, as I need to create a lot of annotated screenshots for it.

57 minutes ago, Laurel Aurelia said:

I loved the brow that was available in eyes makeup section. Is there a bom version of them provided with the head?

There was one included in the BoM pack (look in the folder for ~PACK~ CATWA HDPRO BOM) in the beta versions that we received, but I'm not seeing it in the final pack. I'll speak to Catwa and see if there was a reason why it's not in the finished pack. It may simply be an oversight (she has been working almost non-stop for weeks to get these heads released, only pausing to eat and sleep) or there may be another reason. I'll get back to you once I've spoken to her

Update: I've just spoken to her and she wanted to re-do the BoM versions of the brows because she wasn't happy with how they looked initially. However, so as not to delay the release of the heads, the BoM pack was released without them. She's still going to re-do them, so expect either an update to the BoM pack, or maybe an in-store item pick-up for that (depending on how she wants to handle that).

1 hour ago, Laurel Aurelia said:

In general I would have loved to get some basic bom tattoo layers (freckles,  wrinkles, makeup, etc) to go along with the head as they are my preferred application of skin details.

I can definitely put this forward as a suggestion. In the meantime, hopefully creators will update their existing packs to include HDPRO versions. You could always try demos of BoM wrinkles (example: those sold by Izzie's) to see how they look. We've all been working like crazy to check over each head for any bugs or issues (we have to check not only the sale versions but also the demos) so we've not had much time to examine existing BoM layers that we own, beyond testing some skins to see how the mapping looks on existing BoM skins from various creators.

A tintable freckles layer is included in the BoM pack, by the way (Not pictured: the alpha layers also in that pack; I couldn't stretch the inventory window big enough to include those as well!)

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Will there be a release that is the equivalent for all existing heads, or will some of us need to change looks (new head new look)?

Not sure what you mean by 'the equivalent for all existing heads'? Existing heads cannot be 'updated' to HDPRO, because HDPRO is an entirely new range with completely different rigging.

If, however, you're asking if there will be HDPRO heads that are shaped like existing heads, then I don't know. That depends on the kind of base head shapes that Catwa wants to design. With the Bento heads, some of them were what we call 'sister heads' to the non-Bento heads (in that they had a similar enough shape that - with some slider work - you could recreate with reasonable accuracy their non-Bento sister head). That may happen with HDPRO or it may not. But you have a lot of options with the sliders, so - as with any move either between mesh heads or from system to mesh - start with a head whose shape is close enough to your existing shape, and then work from there.

[Rowan Amore]

I agree with Laurel.  Don't have all the animations active upon purchase.  Looks like I'm having some sort of seizure and it's just plain annoying.

[Maitimo]

7 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

MajerEdged Bento Ears full version:

I just compared this with my Catwa Freya:

• 1 object, 10 prims
• Faces: 47
• Vertices: 43,261
• Triangles: 78,229
• Complexity: 3,910
• Textures: 19
• TMem: 36,224 KB
• VRAM: 44,884 KB

Majer is a significant jump on all factors, though I guess that's to be expected from something that is by definition "HD".   I like how @Skell Dagger has got it looking with Syd;  very similar to Margeaux which is the other Catwa head I own. I'm looking forward to trying the demo of this, I have a feeling that with a bit of work I may finally be able to match the look I wanted with this one.

[FairreLilette]

20 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Are you allowed to say if Catwa has a flash sale?

LOL.  Maybe?  Maybe not.  But, lol.  

[MillyWH]

The head looks amazing. And of course I just bought a Genus head when they returned and I wish I hadn't because this looks so nice and I've had so many issues with the Genus head...but that's not about Catwa, I just can't justify another big purchase but maybe for xmas for myself.. I will definitely demo it.

[Skell Dagger]

44 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

20 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Are you allowed to say if Catwa has a flash sale?

LOL.  Maybe?  Maybe not.  But, lol.  

There is no flash sale. For the record: if Catwa holds any kind of sale then I do not give out advance warning until she has given the go ahead to do so.

[elise Voxel]

I demo'd and it seems nice. Not my type of look but the HUD seems pretty good.

I'm not really sure if now's the time to set it at such a price, with Genus and Lelutka both having sales.

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

I'm so excited. The heads are beautiful. I tried the demos and they are gorgeous!

Finding the Catwa heads were the reason I finally went to to full mesh years ago (on my oldest account). It made the transition fun and easy. Less stressful. I've been a loyal customer ever since and it has certainly been worth it. All of the little extras through group gifts and what you get in the actual head package makes one's linden well spent. These heads are beautiful!

[FairreLilette]

6 hours ago, SassySam87 said:

I demo'd and it seems nice. Not my type of look but the HUD seems pretty good.

I'm not really sure if now's the time to set it at such a price, with Genus and Lelutka both having sales.

Sales are terrific.  I like it when my favorite clothing company puts the items on Marketplace for sale too because when there is a sale I can't get in.  The region is full.  I want a Lelutka head but I haven't even tried the demos or decided yet.  The thing is, I don't buy everything shiny, and now I've decided to buy what I really use.  And, for example, I really use my Deetalez skins and am wow-ed every time I put them on when I change a shape...it's always a Deetalez skin that wows me.  So, I've decided to buy Deetalez skins only because even though I went after shiny, I didn't use it.   And, Catya has been the best head I could have ever found.  It probably always will be my go-to.  So, even with a Lelutka sale, I think I'd like this MajorEdge head more because I know how much I've loved Catya.  Genus has a lazy eye and a bit of an eye problem I don't want to have to hassle with even though I like the heads, I hope the problem gets fixed on Genus, whatever it is.  

Edited September 19, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

mistake cuz of new forum format.  

Edited September 19, 2020 by FairreLilette