I want to know your experiences with racism in Second Life

[Velk Kerang]

I don't think I ever really answered this question. My experiences are none. Never met what I would genuinely class as a racist person on SL in all my years here. Having said that what I have seen on here is that generally when it comes to racism from what I have personally witnessed on here is people generally tend to cry wolf a lot and make issues where there are none. I always distance myself from that type of closed minded ignorance as it serves no purpose.👍😎

I've had one altercation on here and it was in one my anti-griefer groups. I probably told this story before, but one of the members of the group was trying to get everyone to report a guy from a WW2 RP sim because of the uniform he wore when he TP'ed to a plane shop of all places to purchase a plane for use on that sim if I recall right. Clearly stated in his profile he is an RP character mind you. Long story short I told dude to piss off. lol I can't stand people who cry about stupid things. lol🤦‍♂️😎

[Chie Salome]

The worst thing that ever happened to me was when a random guy TP'd in where I was building with friends and said "want a huge white **** in your tight asian ******?", etc etc, but that was more hilarious than insulting tbh so we gave him the classic griefer treatment of freezing and decorating with ribbons and tutu, all the while chatting in a language he didn't understand, lucky for him, and then hit eject & ban when we got bored.

If it happened in RL, which it actually does, we'd have been scared and hurt, but honestly, in a world where we don't have countless layers of context and consequences, I don't see the point in getting worked up about Second racism or Second sexism.  You are what you put in your profile and on your avatar.  Nobody can attack you for who you really are.  Nobody can overpower you with racial privilege, physical strength or systemic power.  Of course there will be people who let the extension of their bigoted self manifest in SL but you can always block and derender and they pretty much cease to exist for you. 

[Harmony Evergarden]

Last night, some guy IMed me, obviously after perving my profile. He did not like what he found and said, "Black olives matter. Fu** you and them." Why? I don't know. He wasn't even in the same sim as me...he obviously was just cruising group memberships. I blocked him.

Another time one of my tenants said, "I am cancelling our friendship. I am tired of the Blacks making me defend myself." I had not spoken to him in months, so I have no idea what he was on about. So I just said, "Okay. Good luck to you." 

Back in 2008 when I made my first account, the assigned avatar was a busty blonde. I was in Welcome Island and heard someone in local saying some terrible things about black and brown people. I left that day and stayed away from SL for 6 months, thinking that SL was a terrible place full of terrible people. I only tried again when my real life friend convinced me to give SL another chance.

Other than that, I have made myself a happy little bubble to live my Second Life in.

[Finite]

11 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

I've had one altercation on here and it was in one my anti-griefer groups. I probably told this story before, but one of the members of the group was trying to get everyone to report a guy from a WW2 RP sim because of the uniform he wore when he TP'ed to a plane shop of all places to purchase a plane for use on that sim if I recall right. Clearly stated in his profile he is an RP character mind you. Long story short I told dude to piss off. lol I can't stand people who cry about stupid things. lol🤦‍♂️😎

I assume he was wearing a swastika or something. Even popular WW2 online games replace it with the iron cross. COD for instance has them in campaign but not multiplayer modes.  I wouldn't think its stupid to be offended by them. It's also against SL's community standards and SL's content guidelines to display one regardless of the context so I don't think the person was wrong for reporting it if it was offensive to them. It probably wasn't necessary to ask people to pile on the reports as generally one is sufficient.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

3 hours ago, Finite said:

I assume he was wearing a swastika or something. Even popular WW2 online games replace it with the iron cross. COD for instance has them in campaign but not multiplayer modes.  I wouldn't think its stupid to be offended by them. It's also against SL's community standards and SL's content guidelines to display one regardless of the context so I don't think the person was wrong for reporting it if it was offensive to them. It probably wasn't necessary to ask people to pile on the reports as generally one is sufficient.

Honestly both, the swastika & iron cross were embraced by the nazi party & before nazis were even a thing (Prussia).  I’m no history or military scholar (nor European) to understand why the iron cross is seemingly less offensive now.   
 

Snoopy has aerial dog fights with the Red Baron atop his flying doghouse -the Red Baron’s plane visibly marked.  Then there’s Red Baron pizza with a mustachioed pilot with a wavy red scarf on the box.   Hollywood makes use of the symbol & video games go either way.  The lines of “what is inappropriate” certainly get tangled when you look at all the tendrils.  
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547

My own personal opinion is the symbol should not be worn or displayed other than in an educational setting- & RP in SL is certainly not educational.

[Finite]

9 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Honestly both, the swastika & iron cross were embraced by the nazi party & before nazis were even a thing (Prussia).  I’m no history or military scholar (nor European) to understand why the iron cross is seemingly less offensive now.   
 

Nor am I I just remember a post a game designer made about the subject in the late 90s. He created a game that I think still exists called Aces High which is a WW2 online flight simulator where players can fight each other with planes or tanks from either side of WW2. I guess a few had requested some of the German planes have the swastika for historical accuracy but he explained why it would never happen from his perspective being Jewish. I don't think the subject of the iron cross came up in the discussion.

PS in hindsight I could be wrong calling the black cross being used instead of the swastika the iron cross.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Finite

[Orwar]

23 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Honestly both, the swastika & iron cross were embraced by the nazi party & before nazis were even a thing (Prussia).  I’m no history or military scholar (nor European) to understand why the iron cross is seemingly less offensive now.

   Leans back in his armchair.

   The Iron Cross was introduced as a military decoration in 1813, during the Napoleonic wars, on behest of King Frederick William III of Prussia, and was adopted by the German Empire after the unification. The symbol never really became offensive as it was a military decoration (only rarely awarded to civilians) and had nothing to do with the NSDAP itself (any more than the Victoria Cross would be a Tory symbol because it was awarded whilst they governed Great Britain). Only the WWII crosses, which included the Swastika, are - however, West Germany 'de-nazified' most military honours (excluding many SS-specific ones) in 1957, and the Swastika is no longer part of the Iron Cross. 

   The Swastika itself is strictly verboten in Germany, but the end of WWII didn't end its use in Europe. Finland's air force didn't stop using their symbol of a winged Swastika until 2017.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Orwar

[Maryanne Solo]

Jewellery I design and make, apart from originals, consists of rehashes of historically "important" or significant symbols throughout history and the ages.
At some stage of my lengthy list of public domain designs to "rehash", (to avoid copyright claims where applicable), I will arrive at the swastika.
I do intend to make one but it may only ever be a total quantity of one.
I do understand its origin predates the heel clicking era by maybe, 1000 years.
I also understand it to have no, (popularly known), negative connotations intended by its originators.
(lots of research to do for that one yet).
Interesting topic.
 

[Velk Kerang]

13 hours ago, Finite said:

I assume he was wearing a swastika or something. Even popular WW2 online games replace it with the iron cross. COD for instance has them in campaign but not multiplayer modes.  I wouldn't think its stupid to be offended by them. It's also against SL's community standards and SL's content guidelines to display one regardless of the context so I don't think the person was wrong for reporting it if it was offensive to them. It probably wasn't necessary to ask people to pile on the reports as generally one is sufficient.

Well I respect your opinion in this. It's been some years so I can't recall what exactly what was on his uniform. Let's just say it was. Personally I feel like it was over kill. I feel like all they had to do was ask dude to remove it and I am sure he would have. To me it defeats the purpose of what an anti-griefer group is actually there for. This guy was not bothering anybody. He certainly didn't do anything ban worthy. So to me it is stupid because just because you offended me doesn't entitle you to a permanent game ban.👍

The WW2 sim has been there for ages and I am sure they are with in the guidelines of the TOS. It's only over the course of the last few years has the swastika thing really become an issue where people cried about it and content for that RP was removed off of market and game designers and such were forced to remove them. It's all politics. History is history. People try to change and rewrite it in video games and more often then not it becomes a parody. I forget which one, but one of the Call of Duty games is a perfect example of this where you have the swastika removed, but you have black Nazi's added in. In what world does that even make sense? lol🤣

The issue I have is people are offended by every little thing when the majority of the time they, themselves didn't even live threw anything to even have a true and valid complaint about to begin with. It's like me complaining about slavery when I've never been a slave. That's the type of mentality that is just funny to me. lol🤣

So to me when someone acts all offended because it's politically correct or they just have nothing better to do then to cry about what other people are doing when they have no real life experience to even back it up then I'm sorry, I just find that ignorant as all out heck. To me those people need a hobby mate. lol😎

[Kathlen Onyx]

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Velk Kerang said:

Well I respect your opinion in this. It's been some years so I can't recall what exactly what was on his uniform. Let's just say it was. Personally I feel like it was over kill. I feel like all they had to do was ask dude to remove it and I am sure he would have. To me it defeats the purpose of what an anti-griefer group is actually there for. This guy was not bothering anybody. He certainly didn't do anything ban worthy. So to me it is stupid because just because you offended me doesn't entitle you to a permanent game ban.👍

The WW2 sim has been there for ages and I am sure they are with in the guidelines of the TOS. It's only over the course of the last few years has the swastika thing really become an issue where people cried about it and content for that RP was removed off of market and game designers and such were forced to remove them. It's all politics. History is history. People try to change and rewrite it in video games and more often then not it becomes a parody. I forget which one, but one of the Call of Duty games is a perfect example of this where you have the swastika removed, but you have black Nazi's added in. In what world does that even make sense? lol🤣

The issue I have is people are offended by every little thing when the majority of the time they, themselves didn't even live threw anything to even have a true and valid complaint about to begin with. It's like me complaining about slavery when I've never been a slave. That's the type of mentality that is just funny to me. lol🤣

So to me when someone acts all offended because it's politically correct or they just have nothing better to do then to cry about what other people are doing when they have no real life experience to even back it up then I'm sorry, I just find that ignorant as all out heck. To me those people need a hobby mate. lol😎

I wouldn't say its a new thing. I brought up a time a game designer explained why he wouldn't use swastika on the german planes he made for his WW2 game in a forum back in 1998 or 1999. I forget exactly when. But his name is Dale Adinct (something like that) and he created a WW2 game called Aces High which is still around apparently. I think people are just hearing "new" things to their ears since the internet is far more prevalent these days and unfortunately it's the only access they have to anything outside of their own life's bubble.

COD they weren't removed. They never existed for multiplayer mode. They only ever existed in campaign mode. And black nazi's weren't "added" they were already there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/06/21/this-is-why-there-are-black-nazis-and-no-swastikas-in-call-of-duty-world-war-2-multiplayer/?sh=62ee3ef31338

[Velk Kerang]

26 minutes ago, Finite said:

I wouldn't say its a new thing. I brought up a time a game designer explained why he wouldn't use swastika on the german planes he made for his WW2 game in a forum back in 1998 or 1999. I forget exactly when. But his name is Dale Adinct (something like that) and he created a WW2 game called Aces High which is still around apparently. I think people are just hearing "new" things to their ears since the internet is far more prevalent these days and unfortunately it's the only access they have to anything outside of their own life's bubble.

COD they weren't removed. They never existed for multiplayer mode. They only ever existed in campaign mode. And black nazi's weren't "added" they were already there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/06/21/this-is-why-there-are-black-nazis-and-no-swastikas-in-call-of-duty-world-war-2-multiplayer/?sh=62ee3ef31338

Ya I am very well aware of and know all about Aces High and the creator has an actual legitimate reasons for not adding it. That's why I didn't comment on it. As for COD I was speaking on the over all development process of that game. Yes they were added because it was in the final release. Game development goes in various stages. All that article tells you about is why they made the changes they made up on the actual release of the game. Stop nitpicking mate. lol😎

Edit: Just for clarification for those who haven't actually heard of the game. It's Aces High 3 that is still active and online. Here is the Steam page and official web site for anyone interested.😎

https://store.steampowered.com/app/651090/Aces_High_III/

And.

https://www.hitechcreations.com/index.php

Edited August 26, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Velk Kerang]

17 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

😁😎

[Finite]

11 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Ya I am very well aware of and know all about Aces High and the creator has an actual legitimate reasons for not adding it. That's why I didn't comment on it. As for COD I was speaking on the over all development process of that game. Yes they were added because it was in the final release. Game development goes in various stages. All that article tells you about is why they made the changes they made up on the actual release of the game. Stop nitpicking mate. lol😎

Edit: Just for clarification for those who haven't actually heard of the game. It's Aces High 3 that is still active and online. Here is the Steam page and official web site for anyone interested.😎

https://store.steampowered.com/app/651090/Aces_High_III/

And.

https://www.hitechcreations.com/index.php

Ha small world. I was playing that game in my late teens. I'm surprised it's still around. Maybe I'll go dust off my old MS Sidewinder and give it a whirl xD.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

20 hours ago, Orwar said:

   The Swastika itself is strictly verboten in Germany, but the end of WWII didn't end its use in Europe. Finland's air force didn't stop using their symbol of a winged Swastika until 2017.

That's why games like Medal Of Honor where blacklisted here, because the models in game had swastikas on their arms. Later one, games would require to either change the textures of the models here, so it's not a swastika anymore, or risk being banned.

However, there was some change, if I remember correctly, that now allows the depiction in games, but under certain circumstances I think. 

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

However, there was some change, if I remember correctly, that now allows the depiction in games, but under certain circumstances I think. 

Yes I read an article 2 days ago about a German-made WW2 based game. I forget the name but it only has like 8000 players worldwide in it. Apparently Germany now allows it to be displayed in video game. I think as of 2019 or 2020. I forget. Was just something I dug up while trying research articles on this topic.

[Velk Kerang]

18 hours ago, Finite said:

Ha small world. I was playing that game in my late teens. I'm surprised it's still around. Maybe I'll go dust off my old MS Sidewinder and give it a whirl xD.

I know, right? lol You should. I been thinking about it since you mentioned it. lol I got mine packed up in a box I thought about breaking back open just to revisit it for the nostalgia of it. lol I absolutely love piloting games. The last one I played was a space one called Elite Dangerous on Steam. A friend of mine peaked my curiosity in that one only because he told me they used actual scientific data to create some of the maps in it. I figured that was about as close to space exploration as I was going to get. lol It's definitely a nice break from the survival games I am always playing.👍😎

Since you played Aces High I'll mention this game. You may or may not have played this before. It's an mmo call WW2 Online. I found this one to be very challenging and a thinking game because just like in rl you can be taken down with a single bullet. It's definitely not the average run and gun type of game. The graphic's are a bit dated since it's from 2001, but I had a lot of fun playing this. It reminded me of some of the battles we had on SL on the WW2 rp sims and it still has an active community.👍

In regards to what we talked about with the swastika's I know for a fact they are not in this game. I did recall something after our talk that may be worth mentioning. From what I remember after having thought about it some more the developers at the time said it had something to do with an international law in Germany if I am not mistaken. Whether that is still in effect I don't know and how that all plays in to the decision on whether or not some games have it and some don't I don't really know. Honestly I didn't put much thought in to it at the time they explained it back then because I always played allied forces anyway and really in a game like this if you're shooting at me then I'm not trying to inspect your uniform. lol🤣

But ya I just thought that might be another relevant factor. It's possible someone caught wind of it in SL which was why such a stink was made over it and a lot of that content that had been on here for years got removed. Which sucks if your going for historical accuracy, but it is what it is. Anyway these are the links in case you want to check them out mate.😎

WW2 Online.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251950/WWII_Online/

And.

https://www.wwiionline.com/

Elite Dangerous.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/359320/Elite_Dangerous/

Edit: Thought I'd add this video for inspiration in case you decide to play either of the WW2 games. lol👍😉😁😎

Edit Again: Just an FYI. I looked up that law and apparently that ban had been lifted. So definitely a SJW thing these days.😎

Edited August 27, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Angelina Sinclair]

I've had a few odd chats. With some guys making remarks if my white skin and beauty. I kindly tons them I'm not white but Hispanic save not interested.

I've also have seen a number of white and black supremacy groups in SL all focused on it being a kink and not you know, neonazis and the such.

Definitely not a kink for me. I do however find it odd that people have this kink cause like you could still have all the usual bdsm stuff without the racist undertones. Guess there's something there in not seeing but each to their own.

[Internalized]

Here’s a good example, and nobody black is even in, on, or surrounding this clip. Head to about 30 minutes in.