I want to know your experiences with racism in Second Life

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I would happily shame someone for this one. I probably won't here, because this is SL and I know the culture and I haven't really got the energy to fight it out, but there are some things for which "I get off on it" isn't good enough for me.

My consolation, of course, is that nobody is really harmed etc etc, and also that what I've seen of the RL kink scene is so vastly different to SL that it might as well be another planet (despite all the self-proclaimed experts being on SL. I'm sure there are reasons for that but I'm not in the mood to debate them). 

But there are some things that I don't think are OK, and I suspect most right-thinking people also wouldn't think are OK. If I'm going to use SL then I must accept that the Lab thinks it's ok, but I'm still pretty sure there are a few things that wouldn't fly here, although if the target is women then it seems there are no limits.

The Lab is a private company, not a law maker, and does not actually HAVE to tolerate anything (it seems pretty good at coming down on anything involving children, so clearly it can be done). 

some people can be really harmed here in sl, abuse and harm is not just limited to the physical, there is emotional abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse and psychological abuse and all can happen here and does happen here at times. and those forms of abuse and harm can lead to rl physical issues such as anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts or feelings.

[Janet Voxel]

1 hour ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

So I guess that's another question - were people hurt just as much dealing with racist residents here as they would be if the same thing happened to them in reality?   I mean part of it may be physical in reality but emotional scars can be left behind that might be much harder to deal with. 

I wouldn't go as far as saying "The things I've experienced in SL have caused me emotional scars." but it definitely makes you more aware of what you're seeing compared to if you don't have those kind of real life experiences. Which is why you're going to see a lot of "SL is a place where I go to escape reality." or "It doesn't matter in SL, you can be anything you want. No one cares." There's a certain level of disconnect there.

Real life example: So I'm biracial in RL. Not really an unusual thing, but it comes with a certain amount of "baggage". It usually revolves around things like "What are you?" People have literally asked me that many times. When I moved to the US, it became another thing because I tend to look Latina feature-wise. That causes more confusion, because I didn't speak spanish, it was just assumed I was Latina, even though my name is super french. Nothing like getting cussed out by a older Spanish person because I don't speak "my language". Ironically I worked with a biracial girl from Germany who had the exact same problem and people thought we were sisters.

Where does SL come into play here? For a while, you couldn't get a quality black skin in SL. If you wanted to be black you looked like a crispy white woman, that was as good as it got. The response from a lot of skin makers was "There really isn't a market for them, so I don't bother." Overtime, that changed...then there were quality black skins, but they were really dark. I talked to a skin maker that made them became friends even and I asked them...could you consider making a skin that looked...biracial? First I got a song and dance about, it's not really possible with the lighting in SL, blah, blah, blah and eventually...there isn't a market for them. I told them I wanted them and I knew other people that wanted them. The response was: You're not really black so your opinion doesn't count. Friendship over.

I wouldn't call what happens in SL scarring, but there are echoes of pain in SL.

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

For instance, I'd guarantee that RP based around Nazi concentration camps would get zapped in a hurry. 

The swastikas and the Hilter avatar is all I've ever encountered in SL.  I just left the sim and never looked back.  However, a thread was started here several months ago about a person who was very upset about the Hilter avatar.  It's considered a part of history and free speech by the majority of SL users according to the thread that was here several months ago.

I told the poster to just leave the sim and not go back there to where the Hilter avatar and all their swastikas in flags and other things were.  The majority of posters in that thread told him to move on.  The poster wanted the Hilter avatar and the swastikas banned by SL.  I don't think SL would do much about it.  

Now, the concentration camps have been depicted in movies.   "Life is Beautiful" is a great movie but it's gutt wreching.  So, I don't know how much of this would be tolerated or not as a role-play kind of history in the re-making deal.

My best advice regarding the German Nazi's and the Hilter avatar is to ignore it because there are a bazilion other things to do in SL and we aren't forced to be on a sim.

To the OP:  As far as sex and age discrimination, I've encountered some demeaning things said on the forum as far as age.  As far as sexist views, some towards women inworld but I've not encountered it on the forum.  

As far as demeaning hate speech to any individual in SL inworld, I have never encountered any.   

I just wanted to add to the OP that I believe racism involves ETHNICITY, GENDER, AGE, RELIGION.   As far as those, no, I haven't encountered any inworld.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Amina Sopwith]

1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

some people can be really harmed here in sl, abuse and harm is not just limited to the physical, there is emotional abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse and psychological abuse and all can happen here and does happen here at times. and those forms of abuse and harm can lead to rl physical issues such as anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts or feelings.

Well, to me, that's all the more reason to say that actually it is ok to "kink shame" in some circumstances. 

[Nick0678]

24 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not true, not everyone rp's here in sl, some do take it very serious and personal.

and again not true, just because you see sl=/=rl to you does not mean everyone else does. for some people sl=rl..

it doesnt matter what other countries legal systems are.. it only really matters what the us legal system is for ll is based in the us so it has to follow us laws. so even if some other country said xyz was ok does not mean it would be in sl if it was not ok by us laws.

Well i am not here to debate on these but for me everyone is RPing here (one way or another).

If people want to see SL as RL i dont mind but for me they will always be RPlayers and doesn't affect my way of gaming in any way.

Regarding the laws on a practical/realistic and not imaginary level things are very simple.

The US legal system applies towards Linden Labs on how/what services they can provide and how to monitor them.

Remember the most important thing when it comes to Legal stuff is that nobody is guilty of breaking a law until that action has been judged by a court.

So if you live in the US you file a court order/claim for whatever reason you can think of towards Linden Labs for their services

or towards a Person/Resident/Company for whatever reasons.

If that Resident is lets say from Lithuania just forget about it go have some coffee,  a snack, watch Netflix or whatever and face reality..

And here comes the TOS.

The Terms of Service is a handy tool used by Linden Labs and other companies to monitor and deny provided services to individuals.

It's not a Law its just the only  way for Companies to be able to defend themselves when a Legal case is filled against them by a person that has been denied services.

More or less that's it...

Oh and theres no Law in any country that denies a good spank virtual or Real.

Take care and make sure you enjoy your SL all.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

11 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Well, to me, that's all the more reason to say that actually it is ok to "kink shame" in some circumstances. 

then you get attacked by all the kinksters and fetishists for doing so. because in their eyes your not allowed to shame any kink or fetish ever for any reason no matter how much you disagree with it. if you dont like or accept it then turn the other cheek and walk away...

[Pixie Kobichenko]

I’ve been IMd by avatars asking if I want various things to happen to my avi by a _________.  Various descriptions about their pixel endowment.

 I think it is racist because typically the guy focuses on using derogatory words for black.  
In my opinion these are white guys with perceived ***** envy, running off a stereotype.  (of note there’s also a subset of IMers who want to be ridiculed for their micro peener and those avatars always seem to be white so is that a reverse racism thing or just a kink-fetish-i don’t the terms?) 🤷‍♀️ 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Well i am not here to debate on these but for me everyone is RPing here (one way or another).

If people want to see SL as RL i dont mind but for me they will always be RPlayers and doesn't affect my way of gaming in any way.

Regarding the laws on a practical/realistic and not imaginary level things are very simple.

The US legal system applies towards Linden Labs on how/what services they can provide and how to monitor them.

Remember the most important thing when it comes to Legal stuff is that nobody is guilty of breaking a law until that action has been judged by a court.

So if you live in the US you file a court order/claim for whatever reason you can think of towards Linden Labs for their services

or towards a Person/Resident/Company for whatever reasons.

If that Resident is lets say from Lithuania just forget about it go have some coffee,  a snack, watch Netflix or whatever and face reality..

And here comes the TOS.

The Terms of Service is a handy tool used by Linden Labs and other companies to monitor and deny provided services to individuals.

It's not a Law its just the only  way for Companies to be able to defend themselves when a Legal case is filled against them by a person that has been denied services.

More or less that's it...

Oh and theres no Law in any country that denies a good spank virtual or Real.

Take care and make sure you enjoy your SL all.

I can understand and accept your views, for there is a lot of people here who think the same. but I dont agree with them but that is not really important.

the point is harm and abuse can happen here and does, even if some dont accept that truth of reality.

[Amanda Crisp]

I have a habit of muting and de-rendering people who bring 1st Life obnoxiousness into SL, so when I encounter it -it only bothers me for about 3 seconds.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

5 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Real life example: So I'm biracial in RL. Not really an unusual thing, but it comes with a certain amount of "baggage". It usually revolves around things like "What are you?" People have literally asked me that many times. When I moved to the US, it became another thing because I tend to look Latina feature-wise. That causes more confusion, because I didn't speak spanish, it was just assumed I was Latina, even though my name is super french. Nothing like getting cussed out by a older Spanish person because I don't speak "my language". Ironically I worked with a biracial girl from Germany who had the exact same problem and people thought we were sisters.

Where does SL come into play here? For a while, you couldn't get a quality black skin in SL. If you wanted to be black you looked like a crispy white woman, that was as good as it got. The response from a lot of skin makers was "There really isn't a market for them, so I don't bother." Overtime, that changed...then there were quality black skins, but they were really dark. I talked to a skin maker that made them became friends even and I asked them...could you consider making a skin that looked...biracial? First I got a song and dance about, it's not really possible with the lighting in SL, blah, blah, blah and eventually...there isn't a market for them. I told them I wanted them and I knew other people that wanted them. The response was: You're not really black so your opinion doesn't count. Friendship over.

I wouldn't call what happens in SL scarring, but there are echoes of pain in SL.

I'm in an interracial marriage (over 40 years) and I've known my sweetheart since we were little munchkins. We do have one daughter.  Growing up we've seen a lot of stuff and seems we're reliving some of that.

As for skins, it wasn't for a few years until I finally found a decent skin. In the beginning had to use the SL color thingy to make my avi dark, and it didn't look natural.

On the racism, I only encountered it a couple times in world. The last time is when I was DJing one night filling in for my man who usually did the gig. I was playing some funk tunes.  After a few songs 2 avis there donned Afros and I got deeply offended. Maybe I overreacted but when that happened it bought back bad memories from my middle school years as some kids would don the Afros to make fun of me and the others. This was in the 70s, but it hurt a lot as it made me feel not welcomed. The club owner PMed say it was in spirit of the music and racism was a thing of the past, but I had a feeling she rarely left her house.

[Seicher Rae]

9 hours ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

The deadline is June 30, 2020.  

 

This ^^^ to me screams "research paper" and I just want to say that I know people who have done research on inworld things and there is usually a set of guidelines and protocols that they are required to meet for the sake of ethics. At least tell people it is research, how their information is to be used, how names are going to be used, etc.

I don't find anything wrong with the question, and perhaps I'm wrong with the "homework" aspect of it. 

So that said, I am white in real life. Last year, to celebrate my 10th rez day I decided I wanted a change from my 10 years of being a pale, green-eyed, brunette. I created what I think is a gorgeous, black female avatar. It is very important to add: I did not try to "act black" which, even if I knew what that meant, would have been very disrespectful and just icky. I was me, doing everything I normally do in SL, just in a black avatar. I took pictures. I went to clubs. I explored. I did not spend much if any time in "adult" areas at the time.  Years ago I did a similar thing with an alt. Some people meeting me back in 2019 thought I'm black in real life, and still did up until several weeks ago, which surprised me. Other than taking pictures and posting them here and on Flickr, I made no reference to race one way or another.

I never ran into any racism, either as Seeker or my long ago alt. No one talked to me any differently. If I got compliments it was not "nice black avatar" but "nice avatar."  I still saw some random profiles with gawd awful racism on them (and AR'd them if I thought they were explicit enough to get actioned by LL), but I would have seen those in my white avatar, too. 

I have a feeling that much of the differences in experiences among various avatars inworld is simply where they spend their time. I suspect that if I had spent time at adult sims, nude beaches or more, that my experiences would have been different.

I switched back to my pale white me, not because of any adverse reaction to my black avatar, but only because after 10 years of pale me, even though I love the look of my black avatar, she just didn't feel like me. In part, she has strong features that kind of ooze confidence and I'm just not that.   I'm more the shy, mousy girl of my 10+ year look.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Seicher Rae
inserting words to make some semblance of sense

[Seicher Rae]

7 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I would happily shame someone for this one. I probably won't here, because this is SL and I know the culture and I haven't really got the energy to fight it out, but there are some things for which "I get off on it" isn't good enough for me.

My consolation, of course, is that nobody is really harmed etc etc, and also that what I've seen of the RL kink scene is so vastly different to SL that it might as well be another planet (despite all the self-proclaimed experts being on SL. I'm sure there are reasons for that but I'm not in the mood to debate them). 

If you are speaking about Gor, then yeah, even though there are Gor people IRL they don't represent a majority of D/s or the "kink" scene. There are certainly a lot of people RPing BDSM, who do not "look" like what BDSM looks like IRL. However, that said, there are some people who are very much using SL to do RL, long-distance D/s and it is becoming more so (along with Tumblr and Fetlife and other online sources). Some of these will cross-over from SL to RL, some will not, but it is very real and does get recognized in the "community" IRL, and more so each year. In SL there are at least a couple of RL Leather Houses represented in SL.  So, yes, if it isn't strictly RP, people can get hurt, just like IRL (physically too, but that's another story).

I see all sorts of races represented in the BDSM community in SL. I have not personally witnessed or heard of anyone being subjected to racism in the community but I'm sure it exists. Again, it probably depends upon which regions you hang out in. The biggest friction right now, as it is IRL, is the old-school terms of Master/slave to describe a 24/7 TPE relationship. As you can imagine, that has a lot of baggage with it.

7 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Every aspect of Second Life Is all about RP and has nothing to do with RL.(Otherwise the majority would get a divorce for sure.)

See above. You've stated this a couple of times. That that is your way to do SL is fine, just know that it is not universal for everyone. All SL is NOT about RPing. 99% of my SL is not. That doesn't mean I don't know the difference between RL and SL. My SL very much overlaps my RL.

[Paul Hexem]

I'd love to share some of mine, but they wouldn't fit the narrative.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

40 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

If you are speaking about Gor, then yeah, even though there are Gor people IRL they don't represent a majority of D/s or the "kink" scene. There are certainly a lot of people RPing BDSM, who do not "look" like what BDSM looks like IRL. However, that said, there are some people who are very much using SL to do RL, long-distance D/s and it is becoming more so (along with Tumblr and Fetlife and other online sources). Some of these will cross-over from SL to RL, some will not, but it is very real and does get recognized in the "community" IRL, and more so each year. In SL there are at least a couple of RL Leather Houses represented in SL.  So, yes, if it isn't strictly RP, people can get hurt, just like IRL (physically too, but that's another story).

I see all sorts of races represented in the BDSM community in SL. I have not personally witnessed or heard of anyone being subjected to racism in the community but I'm sure it exists. Again, it probably depends upon which regions you hang out in. The biggest friction right now, as it is IRL, is the old-school terms of Master/slave to describe a 24/7 TPE relationship. As you can imagine, that has a lot of baggage with it.

it does happen in the community, but not that often only in niche groups and sims, most of the time is consensual rp but then again is it really.. for one may have been blackmailed, or bullied or tricked or fooled or deceived or manipulated into giving consent without really knowing what they were doing. And then if they cry foul the abusers gaslight and claims its their own fault, they gave consent, they wanted it, they desired it, they deserved it...

Most people in sl do not even realize that in M/s or even 24/7 or TPE relationships there are still safewords and limits for both parties involved.. they like to think because of the title/rank/label it means there is no such thing or it can be ignored or punished for if used.. or that the M can push or touch or break hard  or even soft limits with impunity which goes against normal rl bdsm.

No one on any side of the / has the right to push or touch or break anyone's limits ever regardless if is M/s or D/s or whatever they call their dynamic. not even in TPE.. not even in 24/7 not even in CNC.. but there are many here that claim they can and misinform others of such bs.

but I digress and have gotten of the original topic yet again it seems.. but there was a reason too...

yes people can be harmed in bdsm even online..even physically harmed.. I know this on a personal level...

[Marianne Little]

I have alts of other races, gender and age than me. I like to shop with them, so I am out on shopping events and hunts because I want them to look up to date. When I have dolled up my black female alt, I often go dancing because I am so happy with how she looks. So she is moderately active in SL. I made her in 2008, I think, dark skin all the time. I have never heard anything racist.

Edited to add: If I get in talk with people, no matter what alt I am on, I let them know this is not my main avatar. No one has asked if I am another race in RL, so I do not think it matter for them.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Marianne Little

[Jordyn McGregor]

At the risk of being chased out by the virtuous with their pitchforks and banners... remember this can go both ways.  Just as there are "rednecks" in SL, so are there "gangstas" with the same stereotypical looks, actions, groups/tags and ways.  

And as a follow up to something said earlier by Janet, and not dismissing your feelings or experiences, but I would say "gorgeous black avi" because I know the challenges friends have had in the past with ethnic skins being overlooked as not important or having a small market and the whole "crispy white woman" deal you talked about and because you are simply gorgeous.  I have told friends and a previous partner they had gorgeous black man avi's and its lead to discussions on the improvement of creators in SL to acknowledge the need for better skins, shapes and hair for different ethnicities.  So does this make me racist?  Hopefully no more than the black men who tell me what a cute little white girl I am.

[Seicher Rae]

12 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

And as a follow up to something said earlier by Janet, and not dismissing your feelings or experiences, but I would say "gorgeous black avi" because I know the challenges friends have had in the past with ethnic skins being overlooked as not important or having a small market and the whole "crispy white woman" deal you talked about and because you are simply gorgeous.  I have told friends and a previous partner they had gorgeous black man avi's and its lead to discussions on the improvement of creators in SL to acknowledge the need for better skins, shapes and hair for different ethnicities.  So does this make me racist?  Hopefully no more than the black men who tell me what a cute little white girl I am.

I think the important part of this is that you said "and it's lead to discussions on the improvement... etc." In that context that doesn't make you racist, (imho, which apparently isn't the right kind of liberal to be able to post about such things by the strident virtue thumpers). Just saying, "nice black avi" is not as cool because even though you may be thinking of all of those old, awful skins (which I dealt with for my old alt... they were either crispy white or muddy gray/brown) the person receiving the comment could very well be hearing with different ears. It is kind to be aware of that.

[Jordyn McGregor]

Just now, Seicher Rae said:

I think the important part of this is that you said "and it's lead to discussions on the improvement... etc." In that context that doesn't make you racist, (imho, which apparently isn't the right kind of liberal to be able to post about such things by the strident virtue thumpers). Just saying, "nice black avi" is not as cool because even though you may be thinking of all of those old, awful skins (which I dealt with for my old alt... they were either crispy white or muddy gray/brown) the person receiving the comment could very well be hearing with different ears. It is kind to be aware of that.

Well I am the type of person who doesn't just IM to say "nice avi" and leave it at that.  If I IM anyone, it will lead to a conversation...because I actually can have them!  Conversation is fast becoming a lost art.

[Drayke Newall]

5 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Well I am the type of person who doesn't just IM to say "nice avi" and leave it at that.  If I IM anyone, it will lead to a conversation...because I actually can have them!  Conversation is fast becoming a lost art.

Oh me too. I'm so sick of IM's of "Hi there, nice avie" or even the dreaded one worded IM "hi", then I reply with something to start a conversation and get only cricket's chirping.

1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said:

So that said, I am white in real life. Last year, to celebrate my 10th rez day I decided I wanted a change from my 10 years of being a pale, green-eyed, brunette. I created what I think is a gorgeous, black female avatar. It is very important to add: I did not try to "act black" which, even if I knew what that meant, would have been very disrespectful and just icky.

Not accusing you or anything but thought this was interesting snippet to discuss for my own awareness and curiosity in relation to the OP's question. At what point would you or any other people posting consider this to be or not be Blackfishing which is considered a form of racism?

For those that aren't aware, Blackfishing is the term used to describe a person, usually white, pretending to be someone of Black skin or another race. That being said, currently, the outcry is mostly prevalent in Social Media or films (one of which has recently potentially ruined an actors career due to doing a film as a white person acting as a Black person - for what ever reason) and in depiction of RL people wearing make-up etc to pretend or cosplay (RP) another race. The older term used would be Blackfacing. https://www.theweek.co.uk/98291/what-is-blackfishing

Whilst I am of the belief RL and SL are two different beasts entirely and at best, operate in a form of mutual understanding that there are differences and allowances given, if there has to be a correlation between the two worlds such as the OP's question and their so called 'article research' indirectly implies, my other questions (other than the one in the opening paragraph and especially directed to the OP) are the following:

How is one going to draw correlating stances of racism in RL and SL taking into account the aforementioned? and;

How is pretending to be another race in RL and pretending to be another race in SL considered different and not Blackfishing, i.e., does it purely come down to SL is not RL or is it just accepted because you haven't seen the RL person behind the avatar and therefore don't know if they are Blackfishing or not?

*Ducks for incoming pitchforks being thrown*

[Nick0678]

5 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

See above. You've stated this a couple of times. That that is your way to do SL is fine, just know that it is not universal for everyone. All SL is NOT about RPing. 99% of my SL is not. That doesn't mean I don't know the difference between RL and SL. My SL very much overlaps my RL.

Of course i understand what you are saying, still apples are apples, oranges are oranges.

People can take seriously anything they like, its up to their "personal preference" for example one of my SL ex's that i also know in RL used to date a "guy" in SL for a year until she realized that "guy" was actually a woman who was using voice morphing.

They broke up and that guy (woman) had found out her phone numbers etc and started calling her kids, ex husband on his personal phone and work too, sisters and did other things that are not to be discussed publicly.

When she came for my advice i simply told her to go to the police.

The police doesn't care about what that guy (woman) did in SL and if she stalked her here, if she violated the TOS and such nonsense by making hundreds of avatars in order to keep on messaging her cause its simply an online game but what they did care for was what she did in my ex's RL because SL is a game but reality is reality and that's how it goes.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Nick0678

[Yhishara Cerise]

11 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

some people can be really harmed here in sl, abuse and harm is not just limited to the physical, there is emotional abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse and psychological abuse and all can happen here and does happen here at times. and those forms of abuse and harm can lead to rl physical issues such as anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts or feelings.

I once dealt with an extreme narcissist.   Sometimes I wish he had just punched me - it would have hurt far less than the other abuses he put me through.   I would also have recovered from them sooner. 

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I once dealt with an extreme narcissist.   Sometimes I wish he had just punched me - it would have hurt far less than the other abuses he put me through.   I would also have recovered from them sooner.

Nothing like a narcissistic meltdown rage to ruin your....month        I hope you are free from that...

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

24 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I once dealt with an extreme narcissist.   Sometimes I wish he had just punched me - it would have hurt far less than the other abuses he put me through.   I would also have recovered from them sooner. 

I know and understand those kinds of pains very well. I suffered similar pains before to the point it put me in the mental hospital for months because of what was did and how screwed up in the head it had me from all the mind/head games they played with me and didn't care what it would do to me. they could have cut off my arm and i probably would have recovered from that easier..

some people think its ok to play head/mind games on anyone.. they think because there is no physical harm being done that can be seen then its perfectly acceptable for them do what they do...and no one should ever say otherwise. they even like to gaslight and lovebomb their victims into not ever saying anything about for as long as they can...

total bs...

[Yhishara Cerise]

4 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

At the risk of being chased out by the virtuous with their pitchforks and banners... remember this can go both ways.  Just as there are "rednecks" in SL, so are there "gangstas" with the same stereotypical looks, actions, groups/tags and ways.  

And as a follow up to something said earlier by Janet, and not dismissing your feelings or experiences, but I would say "gorgeous black avi" because I know the challenges friends have had in the past with ethnic skins being overlooked as not important or having a small market and the whole "crispy white woman" deal you talked about and because you are simply gorgeous.  I have told friends and a previous partner they had gorgeous black man avi's and its lead to discussions on the improvement of creators in SL to acknowledge the need for better skins, shapes and hair for different ethnicities.  So does this make me racist?  Hopefully no more than the black men who tell me what a cute little white girl I am.

This is not the first thread where someone has brought up the skin tone issues.   Has it gotten better?  What ways could they improve it?  

I don't think it makes you racist to want darker skin tones.   We all have visions for what we want our avatar to look like, and it is frustrating when you can't find what you want when it is a basic item such as a skin. 

[Jordyn McGregor]

35 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

This is not the first thread where someone has brought up the skin tone issues.   Has it gotten better?  What ways could they improve it?  

I don't think it makes you racist to want darker skin tones.   We all have visions for what we want our avatar to look like, and it is frustrating when you can't find what you want when it is a basic item such as a skin. 

I can't speak for the quality of darker skins as I do not use them.  I simply appreciate the beauty of the avatars who do though and think that it's definitely come a long way from how they used to look.  "Jordan" has always been a tall skinny white girl.  First a blonde, then brunette, and now black haired.

And my post has been misunderstood.  I was replying to a previous post where someone commented that they get told "nice black avi" and she didn't say how it made her feel, but given the theme of the thread, I'm assuming it's not a compliment for her.  I was trying to give her one, but people will interpret things how they will interpret them.