Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 A few months ago, my partner and I decided to check out SL Gor. For those of you unfamiliar with this phenomenon, it would take too long to explain - use Google. So, I dusted off my old library section on Gor (about 800 notecards worth, NOT counting the notecarded novels. I'm a barrel of fun at parties), read up, and away we went. I figured it might be interesting or entertaining for others if I shared our experiences and gave others a chance to comment on this critically important part of SL. Gor is not nearly as misogynistic as seems to be commonly believed. Certainly male dominated, and women are in effect second class citizens, but it's not all slave girls being ravished on every street corner and every woman in chains. Actually, where we hung out, there were more Free Women than slave girls (and a couple slave boys as well). And, lest we forget, it's all consensual - nobody is forced to go there. Gor is exceptionally vacant. We hung out in a "city" that covered 4 sims. Lots of empty real estate. On a good night, 15-20 people combined on the 4 sims. Usually less than 10. Gor seems to be especially dull for slave girls. If you have rape fantasies, there are much better places to hang out. Most of the time, the slaves were little more than animated furniture. Free Person want paga. Slave emote getting paga and use cut and paste emote handing Free Person goblet (yes, I'm intentionally not conjugating verbs correctly, etc). Free Person drink, maybe compliment slave (but no real Master would thank the slave, and the Free Women would be even less likely) on nice serve. My girl finally decided she'd had enough of being bored (granted, we kept ourselves monogamous, so no rape and pillage for her). The girls also seem to not be interested in being friends with other girls - maybe because the ravishing was so limited they didn't want to make friends with the competition, I dunno. The RP is rather dull. I saw a duel that involved one comment from each combatant, an animated sword fight, one emote of bandaging the defeated guy's wounds, and one "I'm outta here" emote. Where's the pathos? The action? We would go to an inn where a regular would come in and, in IM, my girl and I would do an over/under bet on how many times the guy would speak. Three was the normal over/under. What are all these people doing with their Castes? What are the Scribes scribing? Who are the Physicians healing? What are the Builders building? Nothing that I can see. Speaking of Builders, has mesh made it to Gor? Every place looks like it's 2009 again. Most of the furniture, etc. is up to date, but, hey, how about some nice mesh walls and homes? Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to have half those builds on my sim. Gor "BTB" (by the book) - isn't, really. First off, the author himself put the percentage of enslaved females at 2% of the total female population. Depending on where you go in SL Gor (and every sim claims to be BTB as far as I've seen) 50%+ of the female avatars are slaves, and a good percentage of the Free Woman population is actively courting (following BTB rules) being force-collared. "Black wine" (ie. coffee) is drunk in places where, BTB, it would never have been available - similar with many other beverages and animals. People can't be bothered to even RP closing gates - hey just walk into our city and carry off our women, I have to get to the bar and have some paga. Slaves sure seem idle, and dressed rather nicely in most cases. Nobody is at war, but every anthill of a city has an Ubar. Don't get me wrong - I met a few interesting people in Gor, and had some fun. But, like much of the BDSM community, and SL in general, it would benefit from a lot of the places being put out of their misery, forcing people who WANT to be in Gor to congregate in fewer (and therefore more busy) places, thereby making those places better, if for no other reason than the remaining cities can be more choosy about who gets to be a citizen, etc. But, yeah, unless you're a diehard Gor fan, it's a pretty silly place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 the coolest thing about Gor I think was when I first saw the Gor world map on the floor at the Gor Hub, back in about 2007 maybe 2008 as I remember there were 100s of LM pins on the map. Haven't been there since and don't know if the Hub still exists. The map was a cool thing tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Mollymews said: the coolest thing about Gor I think was when I first saw the Gor world map on the floor at the Gor Hub, back in about 2007 maybe 2008 as I remember there were 100s of LM pins on the map. Haven't been there since and don't know if the Hub still exists. The map was a cool thing tho Still there - not sure about hundreds of LM pins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mollymews said: the coolest thing about Gor I think was when I first saw the Gor world map on the floor at the Gor Hub, back in about 2007 maybe 2008 as I remember there were 100s of LM pins on the map. Haven't been there since and don't know if the Hub still exists. The map was a cool thing tho It does. The map is still there. Not as many LMs though. But still a fun place to hang on an alt and drive the Goreans 🦇💩🤪. They never know what hit them, much less what to think of me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) The very fact that it exists as a subculture at all is highly misogynistic. The books are not male dominant fantasy BDSM. They're not even male dominant BDSM. They're not just silly stories either. They are didactic, hateful texts that literally expound, at length, about how women are effectively subhuman, that abusive relationships are fantastic, that women all hate each other because all they care about is competing for men, that there is no such thing as lesbianism and that the only reason a woman would disagree is because she's ugly or hasn't been raped/beaten/burned enough (don't be fooled by the existence of free women and Xena Warrior Princesses, the books are quite clear that they are all just in denial). They even fetishise the real life human trafficking industry. Literally. I'm not talking about another level of interpretation for kidnap in the narrative, I mean the author explicitly references real life human trafficking on Earth and how natural and desirable it is, or how it's a cover for women being taken to Gor, mwahahahaaaa. I could go on and on. The first few books are awful, and stupid, and it's quite clear that they're not going anywhere good (still a bit too much pontification about why it really is an RL terrific idea to burn women with hot irons and all feminists are hysterical and repressed and women all hate each other). But if you really want it to work, and you're an idiot, I suppose you could just about do the mental logic pretzel. But soon after that, what little mask there is slips and Nobhead just goes pants on head insane and there's no excuse. (That's the point where 98% of the women become slaves, by the way. No, it's not worth waiting for.) Please believe me that I understand the draw of an immersive master/slave dancing girl fantasy. I also understand that some people really really like rules and rituals. I get why someone might initially have an interest. I wanted to like the place myself but there is only so much crazy misogyny I can take. I also got a bit tired of having my bones broken and being covered in vomit and sewage, even when I asked in IM if we could avoid that and I'd submit without it. Answer: no, because we are Truly Gorean. It's true that not every Gorean is informed by reading the books (the average Gorean, to be fair, has never read any book that wasn't machine washable), or a raging misogynist, and I did get a bit of decent RP here and there. But it was never more than a day or two before I came across one or more of these berks. And even among the relatively normal people, I recall enough of them quoting the books and arguing over being "truly Gorean" to drive the culture (and bore me to death). It was largely religious, even though in this case, there's literally no question that it was all just made up by a stupid man who doesn't understand how gravity, saturated markets or human shields work. That's also why you find the place so boring, by the way. It doesn't encourage or tend to attract imaginative people. They like having it all mapped out. I might have just gone live and let live, except that even when I left, the Gorean Borg still popped up to overtake and ruin every RP sim that I ever truly loved. Christ, they even sent me abusive IMs about my RP when I was in general CARP sims, interacting with my own Dom! And since Gor was the first and only BDSM-related experience many of them had (I don't want to say actual BDSM, because it's not), it made sense. The trouble is that even if you do have a group of people who are truly only about consensual roleplay and have absolutely no actual Gorean beliefs about the human condition, they're still propagating this subculture (they hold RL conventions! Only three teeth to be found in the entire place, but still) and these revolting books and philosophy. I can't stop anyone doing this, and for obvious reasons I wouldn't try (at least, not by outright banning), but don't expect me not to heap scorn and mockery upon it. I will give it this, though. I don't think I've ever come across anything that could be so offensive and yet so absolutely boring. Edited February 21, 2020 by Amina Sopwith 6 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzevir Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 So there are bored slave girls ... What would this girls do ? Asking for a friend . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: the average Gorean, to be fair, has never read any book that wasn't machine washable If Gor didn't exist, Amina, we would have to invent it, just to ensure that we didn't miss out on lines like this from you. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 For people who don't read anything, they sure write a lot. Two hours in Gor was the most tedious year of my life. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: You can be hilarious! Wait, there are machine washable books? I never thought of this before I read your comment that included "largely religious" but now that I think about it, people adopting Gor as their personal lord and savior is a bit like how nazis adopted Aryanism - it was clearly made up BS, but nonetheless something about it resonated with them enough to set them on their goose-stepping path to horror. I guess when someone has a hole in their soul, they will fill it with whatever garbage comes along to fill it. (Note: I am in no way, shape or form calling Goreans nazis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: Wait, there are machine washable books? I thought you had kids? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Behold, the extent of the average Gorean's reading capabilities (and they need a good lie down and a skinful of Calpol afterwards to recover): 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: The very fact that it exists as a subculture at all is highly misogynistic. My own personal experience with the books and its followers is very limited, and my take on it all may be uninformed and unhelpful. I skimmed one Gor book long ago, and was surprised it made it into Waldenbooks. Norman makes suspension of disbelief painful for anyone who can think. The result for me was suspension of belief in Norman's intelligence and anyone who takes Gor seriously. Fortunately, I haven't yet met a follower who does. I think that explains our different attitudes towards it. The one Gor sim I visited was sufficiently tongue in cheek to be inoffensive. Though the trappings were different, the relationship dynamics I witnessed were much like those anywhere else in SL. I recall a visit during which folks around the campfire were marveling at how much all the roasted Gorean animals tasted like chicken. 44 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: 6 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: the average Gorean, to be fair, has never read any book that wasn't machine washable If Gor didn't exist, Amina, we would have to invent it, just to ensure that we didn't miss out on lines like this from you. I'm in complete agreement with Scylla here. I adore your hatred for Gor enough to be glad Gor is there for you to hate it. It's easy and fun to imagine Norman as a hunt-and-pecker, furiously banging out books at his typewriter, precariously balanced on a shelf in the shower because his wife has better things to do than launder his shorts. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: I never thought of this before I read your comment that included "largely religious" but now that I think about it, people adopting Gor as their personal lord and savior is a bit like how nazis adopted Aryanism - it was clearly made up BS, but nonetheless something about it resonated with them enough to set them on their goose-stepping path to horror. I guess when someone has a hole in their soul, they will fill it with whatever garbage comes along to fill it. You've just described scientology as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Fortunately, I haven't yet met a follower who does. I think that explains our different attitudes towards it. The one Gor sim I visited was sufficiently tongue in cheek to be inoffensive. Dear Christ, I've met them, and even the ones who weren't serious were far too tolerant of those who were. And in all my months there (yes, my IQ has never recovered. Don't be like me, kiddies), I never found a self-aware place that was playing it for lulz. Actually, @Tolya Ugajin, this is why you find bajillions of places with nobody in them... because new places pop up all over the place due to the previous one being Not Truly Gorean. It's also why they're so rubbish in build and design; they're rushed and unimaginative and they won't last three arses or whatever the word is for an hour before some other halfwit decides it's Not Truly Gorean and drops another turd somewhere else. It's like a giant, infinite, unholy whack-a-mole of crap. 7 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I'm in complete agreement with Scylla here. I adore your hatred for Gor enough to be glad Gor is there for you to hate it. Thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Mystic Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 This thread is so intense. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: Dear Christ, I've met them, and even the ones who weren't serious were far too tolerant of those who were. This is why I said my take on Gor may be uninformed and unhelpful. I've never encountered the Asshats of Gor you mention and I might well be taking Gor too lightly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: Dear Christ, I've met them, and even the ones who weren't serious were far too tolerant of those who were. And in all my months there (yes, my IQ has never recovered. Don't be like me, kiddies), I never found a self-aware place that was playing it for lulz. Actually, @Tolya Ugajin, this is why you find bajillions of places with nobody in them... because new places pop up all over the place due to the previous one being Not Truly Gorean. It's also why they're so rubbish in build and design; they're rushed and unimaginative and they won't last three arses or whatever the word is for an hour before some other halfwit decides it's Not Truly Gorean and drops another turd somewhere else. It's like a giant, infinite, unholy whack-a-mole of crap. Thank you. Goreans arguing over who is more "Truly Gor" is a bit like watching women argue over which of them has the largest phallus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Tolya Ugajin said: Goreans arguing over who is more "Truly Gor" is a bit like watching women argue over which of them has the largest phallus. Does it count if it's in a jar? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 40 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: You've just described scientology as well. I don't know much about scientology, but knowing how popular it is with Hollywood stars leads me to believe it's not something to take seriously enough to learn about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said: I thought you had kids? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Behold, the extent of the average Gorean's reading capabilities (and they need a good lie down and a skinful of Calpol afterwards to recover): ROFL! I do have kids (in their 20's now) but I never would have gotten them such dreck to read. They started with the classics - "Where the Wild Things Are" and "There's a Monster at the End of this Book" before being fed a steady diet of Conservative propaganda. (I shall be sorely disappointed if people don't line up to hit that softball I just threw to you out of the park) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Does it count if it's in a jar? Ummm ahhhhhh hmmmmm sorry, I cannot answer that. My johnson is screaming in pain - most distracting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: I don't know much about scientology, but knowing how popular it is with Hollywood stars leads me to believe it's not something to take seriously enough to learn about. I recommend watching Leah Remini's series about it. It's far more insidious than people realize and goes far beyond the celebrities. It's freaking evil and has destroyed many people and families. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 All the interactions I've had with Goreans has been respectful. It seems that they treat non-roleplaying people as free people? I don't recall the terms. The girls have some nice chokers and skimpy bikini robe dresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: I recommend watching Leah Remini's series about it. It's far more insidious than people realize and goes far beyond the celebrities. It's freaking evil and has destroyed many people and families. When we could still afford cable, I would watch it in morbid fascination, as I do with any cult. They all freak me out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 "misogynistic" could easily describe the entire RLV system in Sl - but , all or the participants are consensual, so what does that say? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sternerregnix Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 OK, coomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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