Is it griefing if you push someone on your own property?

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

pushing them around with a hornet swarm.

You aren't pushing them around, you are kicking them off the land essentially saying I invited you in now get the hell out! That's not funny, IMO.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

15 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

It sounds childish and spiteful, and I'd be very disappointed to encounter it.  There are few lovely, inviting places on the Mainland as it is without one pretending to be an open park.  You also assume people share your mean humour, or you're using that excuse to cover your spite.  Blacklist me if it makes you feel good; it's not somewhere I'd care to enter.

I'm not sure where spite comes into the equation but I respect your right to feel that my actions are spiteful.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

7 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

You aren't pushing them around, you are kicking them off the land essentially saying I invited you in now get the hell out! That's not funny, IMO.

Thank you for your input but, my original question was "would this be considered griefing?". So far the replies have shown that its not.

Edited January 3, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed stuff

[Theresa Tennyson]

6 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So anyway, is this griefing? It's a much gentler kinder form of exclusion than a zero notice, TP you home security system. But still, is it possible for people to be offended and complain? 

Would a follower that created the same swarm of hornets in a public area be griefing?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Would a follower that created the same swarm of hornets in a public area be griefing?

it depends. What do you mean by a public area? My land is a "public area" but no one  has a LL ARable right to be there.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

oh I need 1 more emoji to have 1000 feedback. A laugh is just as good as a like.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I'm a firm believer that there is nothing you can do to someone else's avatar, on your own land, that can possibly count as griefing.

But I have no idea what Linden Lab's opinion is on the subject.

[Blush Bravin]

To get technical:

A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in intended or unintended ways.^[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.^[2] This creates a strong division between griefing and cheating, since cheating is done with intent of winning the game and thus is discouraged by in-game penalties.

Using this definition:

1. are you a player in an mpg -  yes, with the caveat that SL is not a game

2. are you irritating the people visiting your so-called public space  - from the replies here I'd think yes, you are

3. are you using the swarm/land as intended  - yes

4. are you annoying your visitors  - most likely yes

5. can you receive a penalty for such behavior - no

So while I believe you can face no penalty for such behavior I think this behavior fits quite nicely within this definition of griefing. 

So what I'm wondering is this. Did you ask if it could be considered griefing because you wanted to be sure you wouldn't get some kind of penalty or because you were concerned that you might be annoying the very same people you invited into your land?

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

it depends. What do you mean by a public area? My land is a "public area" but no one  has a LL ARable right to be there.

Is there an LL ARable right to be anywhere? 

In the RL, trespassing laws say that you have the right to remove people from your land if it's reasonably obvious that it's private property - i.e. if they cross a fence, go into a building, it's posted, etc. Not only aren't you saying that your property is private, you're saying that it's public. It's the equvalent of putting a sign on your RL property saying, "Public park", then when someone arrives taking a shot at them and saying, "But they were on my land!"

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

To get technical:

A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in intended or unintended ways.^[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.^[2] This creates a strong division between griefing and cheating, since cheating is done with intent of winning the game and thus is discouraged by in-game penalties.

Using this definition:

1. are you a player in an mpg -  yes, with the caveat that SL is not a game

2. are you irritating the people visiting your so-called public space  - from the replies here I'd think yes, you are

3. are you using the swarm/land as intended  - yes

4. are you annoying your visitors  - most likely yes

5. can you receive a penalty for such behavior - no

So while I believe you can face no penalty for such behavior I think this behavior fits quite nicely within this definition of griefing. 

So what I'm wondering is this. Did you ask if it could be considered griefing because you wanted to be sure you wouldn't get some kind of penalty or because you were concerned that you might be annoying the very same people you invited into your land?

In the first place, any time i specifically invite someone to my land I either

1) turn off the nest or

2) add them to the safelist.

For anyone that just shows up being attacked by a swarm of hornets is simply part of the experience of being on my property. If they never wander into scan range they will never be attacked.

Many might consider it griefing but they are the same sort that would consider it griefing if they are accidentally bumped into in a busy club.

For some reason they always end up spreading their tales of woe here in the forums where of course the proper reply is a laugh emoji.

 

[Blush Bravin]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

For anyone that just shows up being attacked by a swarm of hornets is simply part of the experience of being on my property. If they never wander into scan range they will never be attacked.

I think it would be totally different if they were just being attacked. In other words they were chased but not pushed past the property line. That would be a pretty cool experience but that's not what you've set up according to what you've posted. It's not a situation of someone out in nature walking and stumbling upon a hornet nest. You are pushing them off the land .. basically kicking them out. And honestly, I'd have no issue whatsoever with that if you hadn't advertised the land as being public. It's not public. You have a white list. That makes it not public. It's basically a trap laying in wait.

But anyway, it's your land. You certainly have a right to do whatever you want with your land, but you asked the question. So that's my answer.

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

And thats the irony, I gave them the right to enter my land but then I guess I have the right to interact with them by pushing them around with a hornet swarm. I would hope most people would go omg that is too funny.

I find the idea of being swarmed by angry hornets very amusing. I'd be inclined to further explore any parcel that did such a thing.

I find the idea of being pushed to the edge of the parcel annoying. I'd be inclined to leave any parcel that did such a thing.

I once had a tropical island on which I placed coconut palms that would drop coconuts on anyone who stood under them. I arranged the bed in my hut so that all animations except "spoon" were located in the bushes out back. The campfire would automatically ignite if you got near it, and if you dwelled long enough, the flames would walk out of the pit and consume you. At no point did I ever push or eject. People were free to roam my parcel, which had plenty of area free of peril. I got several IMs from people who enjoyed the experience.

I designed my island primarily to please myself and my partner, but I also wanted it to be as enjoyable to others as other parcels were to me. It seems only fair to me that, if I'm going to wander SL to enjoy the fruits of everyone else's imagination, which would include being swarmed by angry hornets, I should return the favor.

I don't know what else your parcel has to offer, but from what you've described so far, I'd probably be frustrated with the inconsistency of your implementation and leave soon after being pushed. If that is your intent, a security orb or ban lines would be more consistent, and leave me with a better (though still not good) impression of you.

I would not consider your hornets as griefing, but rather a failed attempt at an interesting idea.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Madelaine McMasters

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

oh I need 1 more emoji to have 1000 feedback. A laugh is just as good as a like.

ty 😁

[Ceka Cianci]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Of course I can, but if I did, whats the point of having it out? 

I also have a safe list for my friends. 

I guess I'm just curious  about the point myself..

Is it for security like an orb?

If it's for security for your land then i wouldn't worry about it..

If it's nabbing people outside your land,then I would worry..

If you have something there inviting people in and them getting booted..Well you'll probably get reported a time or two..Doesn't mean anything will come of it..people can report you for pretty much anything really.. it's if something sticks is all..

Edited January 3, 2019 by Ceka Cianci

[BilliJo Aldrin]

40 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I guess I'm just curious  about the point myself..

Is it for security like an orb?

If it's for security for your land then i wouldn't worry about it..

If it's nabbing people outside your land,then I would worry..

If you have something there inviting people in and them getting booted..Well you'll probably get reported a time or two..Doesn't mean anything will come of it..people can report you for pretty much anything really.. it's if something sticks is all..

The sole point is its a natural area and a swarm of angry hornets are a part of nature. 

There is nothing on the property inviting people in, its just there.

As far as I know its not "nabbing people" outside the parcel and they only push people to the property line because i get the message "object entry not allowed on this parcel"

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
added stuff

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

being attacked by a swarm of hornets is simply part of the experience of being on my property

It sounds a little like the experience of being in one of your threads.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It sounds a little like the experience of being in one of your threads.

yes except i'm the one being swarmed by angry hornets 😁

its funny how my threads always seem to end up going hot, like omg BJ posted something, lets go get her 😆

[Alyona Su]

45 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I guess I'm just curious  about the point myself..

Is it for security like an orb?

If it's for security for your land then i wouldn't worry about it..

If it's nabbing people outside your land,then I would worry..

If you have something there inviting people in and them getting booted..Well you'll probably get reported a time or two..Doesn't mean anything will come of it..people can report you for pretty much anything really.. it's if something sticks is all..

This. Everything said here.

Here's the thing, you (OP) are intentionally being ambiguous and you need to stop that. You *need* to put a notice up about the bees and the way you phrase the notice will set my expectations ahead of time:

"Enjoy your picnic, but beware of bees!" - This would tell me it's okay to venture into your little meadow AND ALSO that if I am attacked by the bees then it's all in good fun. I will not be utterly pissed-off at you for this. My *expectation* was set ahead of time.

"Beware of guard-bees!" - Tells me your little meadow is really for private use, though you are kind enough to the community to not put up dumassbanlines. If I venture into your little garden and get pushed back out I'll laugh and think of how amazingly creative you are; might even do it again just for the experience.

What you need to do is *set the expectation* beforehand.

[Garnet Psaltery]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'm not sure where spite comes into the equation but I respect your right to feel that my actions are spiteful.

Now there's a sentence that says sod all, and you certainly haven't demonstrated respect in this thread.  You have done us all a favour though, in clarifying just what you're like.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Now there's a sentence that says sod all, and you certainly haven't demonstrated respect in this thread.  You have done us all a favour though, in clarifying just what you're like.

there really needs to be a shrug emoji

[Amina Sopwith]

Is there a reason why you wouldn't have some sort of warning to people that this isn't for public access? Or why you wouldn't have auto-return set up, as in the case of the crashed car? (And why wouldn't it be possible for the owner to reverse out after hitting the stone?)

I have no experience of land ownership, so forgive me if these are stupid questions.

[Selene Gregoire]

15 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

What you need to do is *set the expectation* beforehand.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

29 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

yes except i'm the one being swarmed by angry hornets 😁

its funny how my threads always seem to end up going hot, like omg BJ posted something, lets go get her 😆

Well, no. No, it's neither "funny" nor particularly surprising, because you seem to set yourself up for it. It's like you expect to receive abuse, and so you do your best to assure that you aren't disappointed in that expectation. Both of your recent threads are weirdly "meta," and essentially ask "Am I a nasty person if I do this . . ." And then, in case there was any doubt, you spend much of the rest of your time in those threads reassuring everyone that, yes, you ARE indeed a nasty person.

This thread, for instance, is entirely gratuitous: you can't really care if this behaviour counts as "griefing," can you? You don't give any indication that you do. In fact, at one point above, you essentially suggest that you entice the public on to your parcel so that you can expel them, in the hope that they will post about the experience on the forums and you can laugh at them here too.

I actually don't think you're a "nasty" person (sorry!). But I do wonder why you deliberately provoke criticisms and attacks. Is it so that you can feel persecuted?

I don't know. I hate armchair psychologists myself. But I'd be asking myself some questions were I you.

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's like you expect to receive abuse, and so you do your best to assure that you aren't disappointed in that expectation.

With the addition of her 3rd thread, I thought it was just publicity. Sort of - I'm back as the real me now, so l'll make a few splashes so that everyone knows I'm back.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

18 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

With the addition of her 3rd thread, I thought it was just publicity. Sort of - I'm back as the real me now, so l'll make a few splashes so that everyone knows I'm back.

I don't know. To me, it's like the experience of standing by helplessly while someone cuts themselves. It's upsetting. I don't think I need to watch anymore.