LL advertising private businesses in their blog?

[Gabriele Graves]

If LL decide that playing favourites is good for the platform then I don't really care or mind.  I would prefer it to be transparent though.
If I am looking at a sponsorship or an advert, I want to know that is what it is and have LL come right out and say that they are sponsoring something or they are advertising for that business (paid or not).  LL are open about their Relay For Life endorsement for example.

Now I don't know for sure that sponsorship or advertising is occurring with either of the two things mentioned.
It could be unfortunate wording and choices but it sure looks odd to say the least.
I also would welcome a statement from LL about things being discussed in this thread.

I think it is a great thing that individual Lindens are engaged in the platform and we cannot expect them to understand our issues without that.  However I do think that there are activities that are appropriate on their official Linden account and activities they should engage in on a non-Linden account, especially if they are not official business and personal stuff.  Again, I am not saying anything inappropriate is happening but I do think that there should be a separation of concerns.

 

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I don't have any trouble if a company gives preferential treatment to their best customers.

Me neither. Not in principle at least.

The lack of transparency is a problem though. Linden Lab is trying to sit on two - no three - chairs at the same time. They want to be a commercial business, they want to appear as an idealistic organisation and for all their hands-off policies they want to be seen as some sort of quasi-government. The result is that they market themselves as something they are not. The people who joined relatively recently to start some kind of business have all reason to feel cheated by LL's empty promises of a level playing field where everybody have the same opportunities.

Another problem is that the selection of featured merchants is very much geared towards maximizing short term profit. The criteria would have been very different if it had been part of a long term strategy to build and develop SL. It is possible they haven't thought about this of course but I doubt it. Long term planning is actually one of Ebbe's strongest sides as a CEO. LL must have decided that improving the cash flow now is more important than building for the future. That can only mean one f two things and neither bodes very well.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Phil keeps ignoring the fact that it wasn't just 2 brands that were "promoted". It was 4 actually and if i recall correctly  not every one of them is a big brand.

Not true. I conceded ages ago that what I thought were 2 stores, weren't. You're very late with that comment.

 

1 hour ago, Jules Catlyn said:

I also stand by my statement that there is a level playing field because Lindens can shop where they want and share there experiences. 

If LL actively promote one or more businesses, and there is no way for others to be similarly promoted, it is not a level playing field - except for those that get promoted, because the rest don't even get to play.

 

1 hour ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Btw i do see that somehow different opinions are deemed wrong by some people. Looking at them as just being different opinions might be a lot more constructive.

There has been a liberal sprinking of "imo"s in the thread. I know that I've sprinked plenty, and I think that others have too.

Also, what constructiveness do you have in mind? There's nothing to construct here. We are all just offering our views about on something that happened.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Jules Catlyn]

There is a level playing field. Any shop or event can be visited by a Linden and have their items mentioned in any publication by Linden Lab. If it would be something people could pay a fee for it would make the playing field less even because the creators who don't have the funds to pay that fee would be automatically excluded. 

[Phil Deakins]

15 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

There is a level playing field. Any shop or event can be visited by a Linden and have their items mentioned in any publication by Linden Lab. If it would be something people could pay a fee for it would make the playing field less even because the creators who don't have the funds to pay that fee would be automatically excluded. 

Ah. We are talking about different players. Your players are Lindens. The players I'm talking about are user businesses.

[Jules Catlyn]

5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Ah. We are talking about different players. Your players are Lindens. The players I'm talking about are user businesses.

Okay, to clarify. Any creator can have their items bought by a Linden and have them mentioned in a publication like the blog post mentioned. The fact that they can be chosen randomly and can't buy that privilege for a fee makes the playing field even because anyone, from big to small who is selling something has the chance to have their item bought by a Linden and then have their item talked about by that Linden. 

 

[Chic Aeon]

I have been watching this thread for awhile but not necessarily reading every post so if someone mentioned this already I didn't see.

What stands out to me AS A BLOGGER is that it appears the the post in question follows a different format than the others on the blog. It COULD be that the format changes after the picture is "picture of the day" and goes into the archives, but I am doubting that as it is a bunch of extra work.

 

Here is an example of the typical text under a photo: 

Today's Second Life pic of the day is "Day 1088. Dear Diary..." by Piitufiina Thorr. Style credits can be viewed here. 

To submit your image for Second Life Pic of the Day consideration, login to Second Life, snap some pics and add them to the Official Second Life Flickr Group.

 All the other past photos I looked at followed that form.

 

So FOR ME, the question isn't the RIGHT to blog items but the format change. IF as some have said it would have been a link to a personal blog Flickr -- that would have been better. IF ALL the pictures of the day had the text that went with the original blog post, then THAT would have been better.  It is that discrepancy that stands out to me.   

I have sold a few things to Lindens -- even some in Sansar. They wear and use items just like the regular citizenry.  I doubt seriously that the post in question was a paid advertisement -- especially the Uber items.

 

 It should probably be noted that there are a few bloggers who DO GET PAID (not just items) for blogging people's wares.  That isn't illegal either.  

It probably could have been handled better and likely will be in the future.  I really think there are more important things to argue about. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Maybe the others can do it if they go to linden lab and ask for permission like blueberry did.. Buy 10 accounts and have a give away..

Do we know for sure that Blueberry paid LL for the 10 Premiums that they gave away?  I think that was one of the things being questioned because (at least at the time) there was no transparency on that issue.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Do we know for sure that Blueberry paid LL for the 10 Premiums that they gave away?  I think that was one of the things being questioned because (at least at the time) there was no transparency on that issue.

I believe the reason they made the new group was because they had 62,000 members in the group at the time and it was causing some kind of problems for promotions..The new group was bumping up the store credits amount you could earn for two weeks to whoever joined the new group..

Each week they were giving away a year paid premium or 10,000 in store credit to who ever won each week..So we had an option to choose either the year paid  in full or 10,000 store credit..

Honestly,I don't know why she wouldn't pay for the year memberships herself..Just on the promotion alone she probably made way past what it would have cost for those memberships. let alone a lot of people in group were saying they would have taken the store credit over the year..

Blueberry is always giving things away..She gives credits for shopping and always doing some sort of promotion and is active in her group..

I was in there and all I said one time was,I wonder how many credits I have,just to kind of jump in on the conversation..she jumped in IM and told me where i could find out..we chatted for a couple of minutes and she went back to work..

I think the reason she might have asked for permission is because of the amount of money that would be going into so many different accounts if everyone chose the full year..

I mean people think she isn't making a lot of money,but from my understanding her store is how she got over here to the U.S. and is what is paying her bills..

 

I just can't understand why LL would give her 10 free years of memberships to go out and make money on a promotion..let alone it only being an option of that or lindens..

Why aren't people saying they gave her 100,000 lindens as well?

 

I just think she is doing well enough that 720.00 usd isn't a big stretch for one promotion for her..especially when the promotion is going to draw more than that..Let alone it was broken up into two weeks and members were not charged to join the group for those first two weeks..

So much just points to the promotion paying for those prizes rather than LL..

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ceka Cianci

[Gabriele Graves]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I just can't understand why LL would give her 10 free years of memberships to go out and make money on a promotion..let alone it only being an option of that or lindens..

Why aren't people saying they gave her 100,000 lindens as well?

BB can easily pay someone a L$ award directly, however only LL can upgrade someone elses account to premium or add an extra year of premium for them.  That instantly puts the promotion in the area of getting help from LL.  So it isn't much of a stretch to think that LL could also be supplying the upgrades as well.

Of course for all I know, BB could have just paid those people USD 72 and said buy an upgrade (or don't, whatever...) but the wording on the promotion was definitely that premium upgrades were being awarded.  This might lead one to believe that LL has to be on-board with the promotion to a degree.

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

BB can easily pay someone a L$ award directly, however only LL can upgrade someone elses account to premium or add an extra year of premium for them.  That instantly puts the promotion in the area of getting help from LL.  So it isn't much of a stretch to think that LL could also be supplying the upgrades as well.

Of course for all I know, BB could have just paid those people USD 72 and said buy an upgrade (or don't, whatever...) but the wording on the promotion was definitely that premium upgrades were being awarded.  This might lead one to believe that LL has to be on-board with the promotion to a degree.

Or it gives reason as to why she would need to talk to them  in the first place..To set up her promotion and find out what all she needs to do to make it possible and everyone that wins gets their membership..Rather than to run into snags and problems afterwards..

Are people really thinking they are going to do all this stuff for her  for free and get nothing in return, but to promote to some  people  that are already involved in second life and Blueberry?

I just think it's a reach that there is something sneaky going on like that behind closed doors,which was  started by some gossip blog outside of SL that doesn't care for her and her doing well.

Those places  just love to prey on those doing well..

 

Plus her catching hell for her item getting mentioned in the blog, minus the others that were in it but uber,even though they have been mentioning names linking credits in just about every blog before that one..

It's ok with everyone that they promote photographers which also have businesses and sim owners sims, all day long in the blogs..But heaven forbid they mention a creators name for their item making it into a picture.. Now it's favoritism..

 

 

 

 

[Tari Landar]

19 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 

It's ok with everyone that they promote photographers which also have businesses and sim owners sims, all day long in the blogs..But heaven forbid they mention a creators name for their item making it into a picture.. Now it's favoritism..

 

This right here is an interesting point, that adds a wee bit of somethin' to the discussion, I think   especially given that none of those making waves about this have mentioned it, even though we all know it's done, we've all seen it done.

What about the folks that create things which are in all of our libraries? Is LL promoting them? Are they advertising for them? Some of those folks are, were, have been, whatever...creators too. Certain photographers tend to get chucked on the main page of the website a LOT, like way more often than others....are they being promoted, advertised(some of them are after all photographers in sl that sell their services).

Hmmmm

Why all of a sudden is it THIS instance that causes these wavs...

 

(haha, ok, that should be waves, but for whatever reason, every time I look at the word wav, or wavs, it reminds me of this song....(from years way back, when this friggen .wav showed up on countless websites, especially those designed for and around parents/kids...back when it was cool to have sound on websites running all the time, apparently...)

 

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Or it gives reason as to why she would need to talk to them  in the first place..To set up her promotion and find out what all she needs to do to make it possible and everyone that wins gets their membership..Rather than to run into snags and problems afterwards..

I agree and this is pretty much what I said in my own way with the added explanation of why I might some people might think LL donated the premium upgrades.
 

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Plus her catching hell for her item getting mentioned in the blog, minus the others that were in it but uber,even though they have been mentioning names linking credits in just about every blog before that one.

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

This right here is an interesting point, that adds a wee bit of somethin' to the discussion, I think   especially given that none of those making waves about this have mentioned it, even though we all know it's done, we've all seen it done.

I don't see anyone giving anyone hell or making waves.  I just see people asking questions, seeking clarification and discussing the topic.  Well OK, I see disagreements between some people too but that happens in pretty much all topics.

 

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's ok with everyone that they promote photographers which also have businesses and sim owners sims, all day long in the blogs..But heaven forbid they mention a creators name for their item making it into a picture.. Now it's favoritism..

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

What about the folks that create things which are in all of our libraries? Is LL promoting them? Are they advertising for them? Some of those folks are, were, have been, whatever...creators too. Certain photographers tend to get chucked on the main page of the website a LOT, like way more often than others....are they being promoted, advertised(some of them are after all photographers in sl that sell their services).

I think the issue is more about transparency than the favouritism itself.  At least it is for me.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Gabriele Graves
spelling

[Tari Landar]

19 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think the issue is more about transparency than the favouritism itself.  At least it is for me.

The same question still applies....where was the call for transparency in all of the other instances too?

I think it's an interesting question to ask...BUT...it does bring up a good point in this discussion. You'll rarely see anyone even ask questions in the other instances, but they really aren't all that different than this one (and I already stated what my own opinion on the matter is). So, what's so different? Why no calls for transparency any other time, but calls for it now? What changed?  Not that I, or anyone else is owed answers to those questions, they just bring up excellent points that add to this discussion

Also, it should be noted, that yes at least one person was doing more than just asking questions-and, poorly, attempting to cause a rukus, lol..but, I'm not the one that suggested anyone was making waves/making a noise, etc....I'm merely responding to such claims.

I think they're good questions to ask, even if I may not see things others do, or think of them the way others do. I think most questions should be asked, though, if for no other reason, to learn  

Edited September 3, 2018 by Tari Landar

[Gabriele Graves]

9 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

The same question still applies....where was the call for transparency in all of the other instances too?

I don't know the answer to that one but agree it is a good question.  I have been away from the forums for a long time and have only recently started posting again.  You can probably see that from my post count.  However I can guarantee you that had I been around for a simillar topic in the past, I would have been agreeing with calls for transparency then too. ?

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I don't know the answer to that one but agree it is a good question.  I have been away from the forums for a long time and have only recently started posting again.  You can probably see that from my post count.  However I can guarantee you that had I been around for a simillar topic in the past, I would have been agreeing with calls for transparency then too. ?

I thought I recognized that name

I don't think I've seen you since the old RA forums..

[Gabriele Graves]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I thought I recognized that name

I don't think I've seen you since the old RA forums..

You probably haven't, I didn't stay on the LL forums after they changed the first time.
It was only when they switched to this new type I came back to post for a while again.
I go through long periods of occasionally dropping in to read and type the odd post but this week I have been much more active than usual.

It is nice to be remembered with a smile

Edited September 3, 2018 by Gabriele Graves
missing 'was'

[Ipecac Burnham]

As a resident, this thread makes me not want to be a resident.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Ipecac Burnham
meh

[Phil Deakins]

13 hours ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Okay, to clarify. Any creator can have their items bought by a Linden and have them mentioned in a publication like the blog post mentioned. The fact that they can be chosen randomly and can't buy that privilege for a fee makes the playing field even because anyone, from big to small who is selling something has the chance to have their item bought by a Linden and then have their item talked about by that Linden.

Alright. Perhaps 'playing field' was the wrong terminology, because the only ones who are actually playing are Lindens - specifically Xiola. Merchants aren't actually playing. They are at the whims of the players.

It doesn't detract from, or change, my view though. 'Play' anywhere except the place where LL makes official announcements - that blog, because playing there gives it the air of LL's official approval/recommendation.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[ChinRey]

8 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

What about the folks that create things which are in all of our libraries? Is LL promoting them? Are they advertising for them? Some of those folks are, were, have been, whatever...creators too. Certain photographers tend to get chucked on the main page of the website a LOT, like way more often than others....are they being promoted, advertised(some of them are after all photographers in sl that sell their services).

There is one difference though. The blog post is purely an ad. The only purpose of that blog post is to plug specific brands, there's nothing else there.

[Garnet Psaltery]

I notice a distinct lack of Linden input to this thread.

[Phil Deakins]

I think they've all resigned ?

[Phil Deakins]

@Ceka Cianci

Just to clarify....

I started the thread only because Xiola's blog post was odd, in that it didn't say anything other than 'look at me' and say where you can buy the stuff she is wearing. It wasn't an announcement of anything from LL, or information from LL, or anything like that. So it struck me that it was advertising certain products. That's why I started the thread.

Soon afterwards, somebody told me about the Blueberry 'premium accounts' promotion. It seemed to be a bit of a coincidence, and that may be all it ever was, but I mentioned it, because the impression I got, right or wrong, was that it could be some kind favouritism from LL to the Blueberry business, which, imo, would have been grossly unfair to other businesses (customers) when done in the official Linden Lab blog.

The discussions went on from there, with various people posting their opinions on various aspects of it. But, and it's an important but, nobody has judged anyone. Blueberry isn't "catching hell", as you put it, because none of the posters in the thread know any details. It's all been simple discussion and the expressing of opinions, sometimes opposing opinions, about various possibilities, but nobody has been judgemental of either Xiola or Blueberry, because we just don't know.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

15 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I really think there are more important things to argue about. 

It is rare when we argue about something important!

[Love Zhaoying]

45 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I notice a distinct lack of Linden input to this thread.

Holiday weekend in the US.