Health Care In US & UK,Differences Between Left-Right Views On It & Taxes,Capitalism VS Socialism,Abuse Of Power

[Janet Voxel]

On 7/18/2018 at 1:06 PM, Klytyna said:

 

that even Canada could kick your ass...  
 

Did that already; it was called “The War of 1812”.

[Phorumities]

11 hours ago, ellestones said:

when low and no skill workers can't find work commensurate with their low/no skills, then their practical option is to up-skill themselves

this is social engineering as well

so working to better yourself is social engineering? Is there anything anyone can freely choose to do that isn't social engineering?

Funny thing is  I thought we were free individuals able to chart our own course and our own destiny, but listening to the socialists in here, we are just rats in a maze, and the socialist masters will decide which gates to open and close.

[Phorumities]

Socialists love plans and laws. They devote themselves to making more and more plans with accompanying laws to control every tiny aspect of our lives.

Unfortunately for their plans, there's one law that even governs socialists, yet they never take it into consideration.

It's the law of unintended consequences.

What do socialists do when that law messes up their well thought out plans?

They blame the failure on greedy unscrupulous uncaring businessmen, capitalists, and the wealthy.

See see see, they shout out... if those evil people had just gotten on board, the plan would have succeeded.

Two plans that were doomed from the start:

Increased minority home ownership

Affordable health care

In both cases the premise was flawed, the result a disaster, and the ultimate result: blaming business and bringing in even more laws and controls.

The insurance companies sold their souls for the affordable health care plan, but the end result will be government nationalization of the entire health care system, THAT is the end game plan.

 

[Phorumities]

11 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

Part of the problem is what the us and europe have isnt proper capitalism it is corporatism. Corporations have bought politicians and rigged the laws in their favour.

A corporation can shop around for the cheapest labour and make use of globalisation, however the consumer is restricted from doing so legally as instead of being able to buy your goods from the cheapest country they have kept the prices high by regional restrictions.

Here is a good example of this happening

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1362985/Tesco-loses-fight-to-sell-Levis-at-American-prices.html

or if you prefer

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/nov/21/andrewosborn

so Levi's use the cheapest possible labour and reap the benefit but try using the same globalisation to make your life cheaper....

agreed, crony capitalism is the worst sort. Politicians can be bought by anyone with a big enough pile of money.

But why blame the corporations, if  I could bribe a politician to do my bidding, I would too.

America was doomed when politicians realized they could sell favors to the highest bidder.

The problem isn't greedy corrupt businessmen, its greedy corrupt politicians. 

Only with a return to a strictly constitutional federal government, limited to those powers enumerated in the constitution can America be brought back onto the correct course, a place of liberty and freedom and prosperity for anyone that wishes to work to better themselves.

At least now that Trump is returning a conservative balance to the supreme court, the practice of government by court decree will be ended for many years to come.

[Phorumities]

10 hours ago, ellestones said:

this opens up the topic of free movement for discussion

looking at this from a right-of-center perspective

the EU has addressed the topic by allowing the free movement of capital, goods, services and labour between the EU countries

a question for the world is should free movement of all these be allowed globally. A libertarian would say yes just on principle

other not-quite-libertarians would and do sometimes say yes, except for foreigners who will come to where I am and make it harder for me to come out ahead when freely competing in the marketplace on any or all 4 of the above

a libertarian business owner would say yes not only on principle, but also because they view the new arrivals as customers

I'm a libertarian, but I'm also a nationalist.  I believe countries are like private clubs. The people in the club decide who is able to join.

And, all gate crashers should be summarily tossed out by the scruff of their neck.

[Phorumities]

LOL they totally got it backwards on ethanol it's worse for the environment than straight gasoline.

Corn Ethanol Is Now a Climate-Change Scandal

The decade-old boondoggle that was aided and abetted from the get-go by big environmental groups, including the Union of Concerned Scientists and the Natural Resources Defense Council, has been exposed — again — as being worse for climate change than conventional gasoline.

A new study by John DeCicco and several of his colleagues at the University of Michigan Energy Institute has determined that the amount of carbon dioxide consumed by crops only offset 37 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions from biofuel combustion. The study, published in the journal Climatic Change, didn’t rely on models. Instead, it looked a real-world data on crop production, biofuel use, fossil fuel use and vehicle emissions.

“When it comes to the emissions that cause global warming, it turns out that biofuels are worse than gasoline,” DeCicco said. “So the underpinnings of policies used to promote biofuels for reasons of climate have now been proven to be scientifically incorrect.”

DeCicco’s paper is an indictment of the green groups and neoconservatives who formed an alliance with Big Corn to persuade Congress to pass an energy bill in 2005 (which was revised and expanded in 2007) that requires American motorists to buy ethanol-blended gasoline. Their co-conspirator: the Environmental Protection Agency, whose own data has shown that corn ethanol makes air quality worse.

In 2010, the agency determined that using more ethanol-blended fuel will cause carbon-dioxide emissions to increase for at least a decade. It also found that ethanol-blended fuel will “lead to up to 245 cases of adult premature mortality.” That’s remarkable given that researchers from MIT and Harvard University have estimated that the increased pollution from Volkswagen’s efforts to defeat emissions-control equipment in its automobiles will cause about 60 premature deaths per year in the United States. For its deception, Volkswagen is now facing a myriad of lawsuits and billions of dollars in fines.

Last year, the Environmental Working Group issued a report that found that the carbon intensity of corn ethanol is 20 percent higher than that of standard gasoline. In 2014, the group determined that corn ethanol consumption “resulted in 27 million tons more carbon emissions than if Americans had used straight gasoline in their vehicles.”

Despite these facts, the EPA has repeatedly raised the amount of ethanol that must be blended into domestic gasoline supplies. Furthermore, it has, for years, ignored federal law that requires it to study the climate-change effects of corn-ethanol consumption. Last month, the agency’s inspector general rebuked the EPA for its failure to comply with the law. In its response to the IG’s report, the EPA said it was busy. Very busy. And that it wouldn’t be able to fully comply with its reporting requirements by, wait for it … 2024.

While EPA deserves blame for foisting ethanol on American motorists, so, too, do the Union of Concerned Scientists and the Natural Resources Defense Council. In late 2004, they teamed up with a smattering of academics on a report that claimed that biofuels can “help end America’s oil dependence.” The report said biofuels “can free America from foreign oil in a cost-effective and environmentally safe way.” It also said biofuels “could reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 1.7 billion tons per year.”

After the report was published, the NRDC aligned itself with a group of neoconservatives called Set America Free, which repeatedly — and speciously —claimed that by buying foreign oil the United States was supporting terrorism. For its part, the UCS routinely defends the ethanol industry. In January, Margo Oge, a former EPA official who now sits on the UCS board, claimed in the New York Times that — facts be damned — ethanol was “essential” to the effort to “reduce greenhouse gas emissions.”

Let’s be clear: Americans don’t like the oil and gas industry. Groups like the NRDC and the UCS continually demonize oil, natural gas and the process of hydraulic fracturing. But by hyping the ethanol scam, those groups have helped promote a fuel that’s worse for the climate than conventional gasoline. Keep that in mind the next time you pull up to the pump.

http://www.insidesources.com/corn-ethanol-is-now-a-climate-change-scandal/

[Phorumities]

Phorumities rules:

1) If something is worth doing, private business would have already done it

2) If something has to be subsidized by government to be brought into existance, its a bad idea (see Rule One)

Edited July 21, 2018 by Phorumities
fixed stuff

[Phorumities]

I think socialists would love this.

I propose that anytime someone invents something  new, amazing and in great demand. and starts a company to produce and sell it, once the creator has reached a preset profit (say 10 million dollars) the government nationalizes the company, takes all patent rights and continues to manufacture the product for the benefit of society, leaving the original creator with 10 million dollars for his efforts. As well,  the original creator would be allowed to stay on at a modest salary to further direct his stolen property, but all profits would belong to the state.

It's a proposal any socialist is sure to love and it will stop evil businessmen like Bill Gates from amassing billions, billions that could be spent making life better for all the have nots in society.

 

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Bill Gates is an exeption, though.

[Phil Deakins]

Good grief! Doesn't he ever stop?

[Coffee Pancake]

Well that was a tantrum.

[KanryDrago]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Well that was a tantrum.

He reads Ayn Rand what did you expect?

[ellestones]

4 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I'm a libertarian, but I'm also a nationalist

libertarianism and nationalism are contradictions. Pick your favourite dictionary and look up the meanings of "nationalism" and "libertarianism"

if you do want to describe your political viewpoint then there is a classical liberal to your immediate left, and a conservative authoritarian to your immediate right. Close to the same position as Donald Trump

or google on keyword: "libertarian nationalism". The result is people blogging made-up nonsense. If this is you then oh! well.

if tho you let the nonsense go then based on your chat you'd be to the left of Donald Trump. More toward classical liberal than conservative authoritarian. Altho given his own penchant for tweeting nonsense, Mr Trump would probably call you some kinda fake news lefty socialist, you being to the left of him

 

and corn

[Klytyna]

3 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I propose that anytime someone invents something  new, amazing and in great demand

3 hours ago, Phorumities said:

and it will stop evil businessmen like Bill Gates from amassing billions

You should read up on your low talent corporate parasites before claiming them as heros of Libertardian Free Market Fallacy fatheadedness...

Gill "Masta" Bates, disgraced former ceo of Microbloat didn't "invent" anything...

He ran a minor software house, specialising in writing custom business apps for Mainframes and Mini-Computers.

One day, out of the blue, two MIBs (Men in Blue) from Infernal Bloody Machines Inc., walked into his rented office and asked him to sell them an operating system for an InHell 8088 cpu based chipset.

He told them his company didn't write operating systems, and didn't know HOW to write operating systems, and suggested they talk to the guy who made cp/m.

The MIB's tried but the guy was out and his wife wasn't cooperative, so they went back to Gill Bates, and he said he still didn't make OS's, but he'd ask around on the quiet.

Eventually he bought an OS called QDOS for $50,000 from another small company, hired an 8088 assembler coder to change the copywrite tag in the files, and passed it on to Infernal Bloody Machines Inc, who rewrote 90% of it, installed it on their new "personal desktop computer" and sent a copy of THEIR work back to Gill Bates.

...

His biggest contribution to Microbloat's success that WASN'T a lucky accident, was when he decided to openly flout anti monopoly and anti trust laws with the marketing strategy for WinDon't 3.doh...

Eventually Microbloat got prosecuted for that, and subjected to the maximum penalty of the day, a fine of $1,000,000 a day, but Gill decided that since being a corporate criminal payed VASTLY MORE than $1,000,000 a day, that the company would continue breaking the law and simply claim the daily fine as a tax deductable business expense.

That was why, eventually, the other execs and share holders REMOVED him from power and forced him to "retire" to try and repair the damage his existence was doing to the corporation's reputation

...

He "invented" absolutely NOTHING

 

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Klytyna

[Phorumities]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

You should read up on your low talent corporate parasites before claiming them as heros of Libertardian Free Market Fallacy fatheadedness...

Gill "Masta" Bates, disgraced former ceo of Microbloat didn't "invent" anything...

He ran a minor software house, specialising in writing custom business apps for Mainframes and Mini-Computers.

One day, out of the blue, two MIBs (Men in Blue) from Infernal Bloody Machines Inc., walked into his rented office and asked him to sell them an operating system for an InHell 8088 cpu based chipset.

He told them his company didn't write operating systems, and didn't know HOW to write operating systems, and suggested they talk to the guy who made cp/m.

The MIB's tried but the guy was out and his wife wasn't cooperative, so they went back to Gill Bates, and he said he still didn't make OS's, but he'd ask around on the quiet.

Eventually he bought an OS called QDOS for $50,000 from another small company, hired an 8088 assembler coder to change the copywrite tag in the files, and passed it on to Infernal Bloody Machines Inc, who rewrote 90% of it, installed it on their new "personal desktop computer" and sent a copy of THEIR work back to Gill Bates.

...

His biggest contribution to Microbloat's success that WASN'T a lucky accident, was when he decided to openly flout anti monopoly and anti trust laws with the marketing strategy for WinDon't 3.doh...

Eventually Microbloat got prosecuted for that, and subjected to the maximum penalty of the day, a fine of $1,000,000 a day, but Gill decided that since being a corporate criminal payed VASTLY MORE than $1,000,000 a day, that the company would continue breaking the law and simply claim the daily fine as a tax deductable business expense.

That was why, eventually, the other execs and share holders REMOVED him from power and forced him to "retire" to try and repair the damage his existence was doing to the corporation's reputation

...

He "invented" absolutely NOTHING

 

 

as usual you miss the point. but I expect no less, carry on

[Phorumities]

3 hours ago, ellestones said:

libertarianism and nationalism are contradictions. Pick your favourite dictionary and look up the meanings of "nationalism" and "libertarianism"

if you do want to describe your political viewpoint then there is a classical liberal to your immediate left, and a conservative authoritarian to your immediate right. Close to the same position as Donald Trump

or google on keyword: "libertarian nationalism". The result is people blogging made-up nonsense. If this is you then oh! well.

if tho you let the nonsense go then based on your chat you'd be to the left of Donald Trump. More toward classical liberal than conservative authoritarian. Altho given his own penchant for tweeting nonsense, Mr Trump would probably call you some kinda fake news lefty socialist, you being to the left of him

 

and corn

actually I'm quite comfortable with my beliefs, it is you, not I that have the problem

[Sukubia Scarmon]

21 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

as usual you miss the point. but I expect no less, carry on

Well, what was your point?

[Phorumities]

9 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

Well, what was your point?

I was simply offering a plan I was sure every socialist on the forum could agree with. 

They moan about how the top few percent control most of the wealth in the country. This was a way to ensure no future inventor could join the ranks of the ultra rich. All their earnings over a generous amount, along with their patents, would instead be diverted to the common good.

But Phorumities, that would be theft.

Why yes, yes it would.

But Socialism is theft

*shrugs*

Edited July 21, 2018 by Phorumities
dropped a word, added a few

[Fionalein]

 

12 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

Well, what was your point?

Phorumities did Phorumities things... What did you expect?

[Ceka Cianci]

4 hours ago, Klytyna said:

You should read up on your low talent corporate parasites before claiming them as heros of Libertardian Free Market Fallacy fatheadedness...

Gill "Masta" Bates, disgraced former ceo of Microbloat didn't "invent" anything...

He ran a minor software house, specialising in writing custom business apps for Mainframes and Mini-Computers.

One day, out of the blue, two MIBs (Men in Blue) from Infernal Bloody Machines Inc., walked into his rented office and asked him to sell them an operating system for an InHell 8088 cpu based chipset.

He told them his company didn't write operating systems, and didn't know HOW to write operating systems, and suggested they talk to the guy who made cp/m.

The MIB's tried but the guy was out and his wife wasn't cooperative, so they went back to Gill Bates, and he said he still didn't make OS's, but he'd ask around on the quiet.

Eventually he bought an OS called QDOS for $50,000 from another small company, hired an 8088 assembler coder to change the copywrite tag in the files, and passed it on to Infernal Bloody Machines Inc, who rewrote 90% of it, installed it on their new "personal desktop computer" and sent a copy of THEIR work back to Gill Bates.

...

His biggest contribution to Microbloat's success that WASN'T a lucky accident, was when he decided to openly flout anti monopoly and anti trust laws with the marketing strategy for WinDon't 3.doh...

Eventually Microbloat got prosecuted for that, and subjected to the maximum penalty of the day, a fine of $1,000,000 a day, but Gill decided that since being a corporate criminal payed VASTLY MORE than $1,000,000 a day, that the company would continue breaking the law and simply claim the daily fine as a tax deductable business expense.

That was why, eventually, the other execs and share holders REMOVED him from power and forced him to "retire" to try and repair the damage his existence was doing to the corporation's reputation

...

He "invented" absolutely NOTHING

 

 

That reminds me of a funny thing I seen on Conan when Bill burr was on there..He was going on about Steve Jobs..

He just cracks me up..

 

[Fionalein]

Please stop reposting pre-written propaganda, that is just another version of SPAM, sorry

[Phorumities]

21 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Please stop reposting pre-written propaganda, that is just another version of SPAM, sorry

It's just propaganda when its contrary to what you believe.

I'm not spamming, i'm trying to educate the delusional leftists bent on destroying America.

You do know where the ignore button is right?

[Klytyna]

7 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Please stop reposting pre-written propaganda, that is just another version of SPAM, sorry

There's an upside to everything if you squint hard enough...

One of the upsides of Libertardian Spam is it clearly reveals the inherent hypocritical flaw at the heart of the Heresy...

7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

The publication of Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations in 1776 is a landmark in the history of the power of ideas. As Smith’s message of free trade spread, political barriers to peaceful cooperation collapsed, and virtually the whole world decided to try freedom for a change.

Yes indeedy... People tried "Freedom" such as the French, keenly inspired by the Murican Experiment, impoverished French Serfs rebelled against their mega-wealthy Feudal Aristrocrat masters in a bloodthirsty orgy of pillage and looting and mob justice that clearly exibited...

7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

They blame those who are better off than themselves for their troubles. Society is fractured into classes and faction preys on faction. Civilizations have been known to crumble under the weight of envy and the disrespect for property it entails.

Yup, Libertardian hypocrisy in action... It's only the search for "FeeDumb!" when the Libertardian Anarch-Capitallist Wannabe is doing it, when anyone else does it it's the "Theft of his rights" by "Envious Civilisation Destroying Commies"...

7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I'm not spamming, i'm trying to educate the delusional leftists bent on destroying America.

You mean like those "traitors" who thought that if America was going to be in a war, it might be an idea to have... an Army... 1812 Andrew Jackson proposes using Government money to give 160 acres of "Free Land" to every volunteer for the InContinental Army.

Or that traitor Woodrow Wilson, that your web linked FEE.org "hero", LW Read, hates, who thought that MAYBE America should act against a rogue state that was killing American Citizens by torpedoing American ships on the high seas...

As for your last "hero"...

6 hours ago, Phorumities said:

Milton Friedman - Socialism is Force

The man who devised "Monetarism" for the CIA, as a pseudo-economic dogma intended to be promoted in Latin American countries that would a) put large amounts of cash in the pockets of the members of the "Democratic Generalissimo's Junta of Tropico" while simultaneously b) impoverishing the typical Tropican so they would GLADLY work for less than a $1 a day in unsafe conditions while living in a cardboard shanty, for the Engulf & Devour Corporation of America's "Designer Running Shoe" subsiduary.

Monetarism was deliberate, designed economic warfare, intended to exploit the greed of people at the top of very "un-free" countries indeed, places where expressing a desire for "Liberty" got you a visit from the Secret Police Death Squads, and a one way flight on a C-130 out over the pacific ocean, for involuntary "no-parachute" parachute training...

Yes, Libertardian Monetarism supporting "friends" of Murica actually did that to "liberty lovers" 

Friedman? Not a "hero" , Monetarism was Murder...

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Klytyna

[Phil Deakins]

8 hours ago, Phorumities said:

i'm trying to educate the delusional leftists bent on destroying America.

Here in the UK we respect our teachers. I would go so far as to say that teachers can't teach successfully unless they don't have the respect of those they are teaching. I'll go even further and say that, when a teacher doesn't have respect from those s/he is trying to teach, s/he becomes a laughing stock amongst the ones s/he is trying to teach, and a laughing stock can't be a successful teacher. For those reasons, you might as well stop trying to teach anybody anything in this forum, because it's not possible for you to have any success.

Of all the people in this forum, you are one of the very few who I would not take any notice of, regardless of what you say. In the short time that you've been a regular in this forum, you've dug that sort of deep hole for yourself. If you want to be taken seriously here, your best bet is to start again with a hitherto unknown account.

Incidentally, I'm is spelt with a capital I. Consider that your lesson for the day.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Callum Meriman]

41 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

If you want to be taken seriously here, your best bet is to start again with a hitherto unknown account.

We will sniff her out again. Not so many ex-banned forumites with bunny ears and flexie hair.