Some kind of Answer to the Land Baron problem?

[Rathgrith027]

So far on Zindra I've seen miles and miles of land for sale and no one buying them because the land barons are charging outrageous prices for them. 1,200 USD for A HALF SIM, AND 50 USD FOR 2048sqm of land!  I could buy a full simulator from LL and spend 3 months worth of Maintenance fees on the money for that half sim ALONE! I understand the Lindens want to run a Minarchy and not want to stick their hand in things lest they break crap, but there has to be some resolution to the problem of exorbitant land prices. A 2048 Square meter parcel shouldn't cost 12,000L$! At most, it should be around 9,000 or 8,000! 

It's going to get to the point where, outside of a small select few - No one will buy the land! I've owned land for quite some time, and even though I've gotten some of that land for a steal through LL's Abandoned Land program, I wouldn't mind paying a higher rate. And god above will I wonder what the Lindens will do when a bunch of real estate agencies own all this land, and no one will buy them.

And before you pull out the near-ad-hominem 'hurr-durr get a job' Crap, I get paid 32,400 USD a year.

[Lisa006 Baxton]

10 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

So far on Zindra I've seen miles and miles of land for sale and no one buying them because the land barons are charging outrageous prices for them. 1,200 USD for A HALF SIM, AND 50 USD FOR 2048sqm of land!  I could buy a full simulator from LL and spend 3 months worth of Maintenance fees on the money for that half sim ALONE! I understand the Lindens want to run a Minarchy and not want to stick their hand in things lest they break crap, but there has to be some resolution to the problem of exorbitant land prices. A 2048 Square meter parcel shouldn't cost 12,000L$! At most, it should be around 9,000 or 8,000! 

It's going to get to the point where, outside of a small select few - No one will buy the land! I've owned land for quite some time, and even though I've gotten some of that land for a steal through LL's Abandoned Land program, I wouldn't mind paying a higher rate. And god above will I wonder what the Lindens will do when a bunch of real estate agencies own all this land, and no one will buy them.

And before you pull out the near-ad-hominem 'hurr-durr get a job' Crap, I get paid 32,400 USD a year.

As I stated in another thread......As long as someone, somewhere is paying the tier on the land, Linden Lab has no concerns. Now if the real estates companies decide to abandon the land then some concerns may arise from the Lab.

Land Barons usually know how to price the land and adjust accordingly to changes in the market. Just because you don't feel a piece of land is worth 12KL doesn't mean the next resident will feel the same. 

[Rathgrith027]

2 minutes ago, Lisa006 Baxton said:

As I stated in another thread......As long as someone, somewhere is paying the tier on the land, Linden Lab has no concerns. Now if the real estates companies decide to abandon the land then some concerns may arise from the Lab.

Land Barons usually know how to price the land and adjust accordingly to changes in the market. Just because you don't feel a piece of land is worth 12KL doesn't mean the next resident will feel the same. 

Which is going to happen sooner or later if and when prices keep going up or staying as they are. I don't know anyone who would pay 1,000 bucks for a half sim. 50 bucks for a 2048sqm parcel, maybe. But honestly, If anything - at least make it so that Land Barons can't buy up abandoned land outside of auctions.

[Qie Niangao]

Mainland prices have gone up since the tier changes, but yeah, Adult Mainland (Zindra) has always been priced higher than comparable land on other continents. Also there's a substantial part of Zindra available from one particular dealer. I honestly don't know how that dealer makes it work -- I share the perception that there's a vast inventory that turns over very slowly -- but he's been at it a long time (and he's actually a very nice guy, at least he always has been to me).

But anyway that's not the only land for sale on Zindra, and it is more expensive than comparable M or G land. (So if you don't really need Adult land, it's kind of a luxury. I have a couple Zindra parcels that would be very special even if they weren't Adult-rated, i.e., there can be other reasons to pay a premium for specific parcels that just happen to be on Zindra.)

[Rathgrith027]

If Adult content were permissible in private parcels on Moderate, I'd be more interested in buying Moderate land. I actually have been trying to sell the land I have on Sansara (in Hogadon if anyone's wondering) so I could buy an extension to the land I bought on Zindra from the Lindens before a Land baron picked it up (hence why I'm somewhat miffed about it - I would have been less miffed if it were a private user, then I could actually negotiate to buy a small part of the land off them to make what I have a full 2048 parcel, rather then them owning a 2530sqm parcel and leaving me with the 1530 I have, instead of charging an exorbitant price for land.

If the Barons want to make a profit, then they should - However, they've long since gone beyond what would be seen as the Optimal Price Point to me and many others.

[Fionalein]

It is a market thing... expect prices to topple over again when Lindens actually relase something similar to Horizons for the announced new Linden homes....

And no I do not think 100$US is too much for a 1024 parcel if it is in the right enviroment... 1000$ US however is  unfortunately land dealers do not realize my willingness to go premium and buy their land sinks drasticly with more land dealers nearby... (risk of silly neighbours is rising, especially when they divide the plot into pixel slums)

Edited April 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Rathgrith027]

I mean, if the conditions are right, I can see it going for at most 50 USD, but still, I'd rather either go through a private seller who knows the land barons are charging a fortune and will sell for less, or go through Linden Lab and buy abandoned land.

Here's hoping that I can hopefully work something out with the baron and see if we can split the land so I can have the remainder of the 2048 they'd most likely want to sell for.

[Christhiana]

When LL increased the tier for premium accounts I went looking for a 1024 parcel so I wouldn't have to live in/over my shop anymore. I found one in the Heterocera Delta facing a protected water sim. From my new parcel I can take a small boat and drive 3 sims over to my shop and that makes it perfect for me. I payed L$ 14999 for it and to me it's worth every L$. I guess whether you consider a price being to high or not depends on what you're looking for and how well a parcel suits your needs/wants.  

[Ethan Paslong]

12 hours ago, Rathgrith027 said:

If Adult content were permissible in private parcels on Moderate, I'd be more interested in buying Moderate land.

huge mistake here .... you really need to start reading a bit more. ( try google?... terms:  maturity rating second life)  Adult content is totally allowed on moderate parcels. (unless the owner restricts this) Just not public ... so use the privacy settings, and don't allow public access...

[Callum Meriman]

17 hours ago, Rathgrith027 said:

And before you pull out the near-ad-hominem 'hurr-durr get a job'....

Generally these forums are not often like that. The regulars are a pretty friendly bunch.

17 hours ago, Rathgrith027 said:

So far on Zindra I've seen miles and miles of land for sale and no one buying them because the land barons are charging outrageous prices for them. 1,200 USD for A HALF SIM, AND 50 USD FOR 2048sqm of land!

Zindra is weird, and Life really does seem to have a monopoly on it, because of that monopoly, well, they can set their price and as long as people buy, maintain it.

I guess people who want to run an adult club can choose that, then sell it back at the end for about 75% when the club folds, or buy a full private region.

As far as adult content though, if it's not a sex club - as in your home - then the behind closed doors clause lets you do it anywhere on moderate land.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Rathgrith027]

8 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Generally these forums are not often like that. The regulars are a pretty friendly bunch.

Zindra is weird, and Life really does seem to have a monopoly on it, because of that monopoly, well, they can set their price and as long as people buy, maintain it.

I guess people who want to run an adult club can choose that, then sell it back at the end for about 75% when the club folds, or buy a full private region.

As far as adult content though, if it's not a sex club - as in your home - then the behind closed doors clause lets you do it anywhere on moderate land.

Thank you for the clarification. Still, the monopoly they have among other things leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, what with being a long time resident of Zindra (I used to rent from Seedy Estates in Moni Targa, they had dirt cheap rent, landlord was a nice guy, he still runs it and given the location and price he probably deserves a medal, what with every other rental location on the continent either charging arm and a leg or being out of the way in a skybox.)

Edited April 12, 2018 by Rathgrith027

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Rathgrith027 said:

Still, the monopoly they have among other things leaves a very bad taste in my mouth

It really is a monopoly for sure, but it's one they created with their own work and strategy, I don't think the Lab have helped, and that means anyone can replicate it if their pockets are deep enough.

They have a huge holding of yellow land. And the pattern is always the same:

• People buy it, starting small, and adding a block at a  time.
• People run their club
• The club fails, or loses popularity
• People abandon and it goes purple and Life snap it up at auction, or they sell and life move in and rebuy when it's low enough.
• Rinse and repeat

If you are bulk selling land at L$6 sqm, then you can likely afford to buy it at L$3 sqm or less, as long as you buy every sqm for sale and keep the monopoly at all costs.

The other clear pattern I've noticed is - if there is a popular club, then the yellow land around it is also eaten up by other people. I've often considered the voyeurs and visitor trackers are those people. When the club folds, or loses popularity, then the sims around it's old place start turning yellow too.

I watch yellow a lot, there and in the Blake sea, which is a whole magnitude more expensive than Zindra. It's an interesting pattern to watch.

 

[Jae Villa]

What Life has achieved, regardless of the downsides, certainly is impressive to behold. I've been selling land I'm buying at auction as close to the cost price to me as possible whilst still making a few hundred lindens, this is my small contribution to trying to diversify the ownership of land on Zindra (I've set up home in Kraddic and I'm focussing on making the south west a little more active) and have a little fun property trading. 

But people like Life are in it for the real money, nothing wrong with that, and they'll always win regardless of pretty much any control the Lindens put in place (unless they go full Communist dictatorship of course...). Hell even I've bought some land from Life recently in order to expand certain parcels... 

[Fionalein]

6 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Generally these forums are not often like that. The regulars are a pretty friendly bunch.

Zindra is weird, and Life really does seem to have a monopoly on it, because of that monopoly, well, they can set their price and as long as people buy, maintain it.

I guess people who want to run an adult club can choose that, then sell it back at the end for about 75% when the club folds, or buy a full private region.

As far as adult content though, if it's not a sex club - as in your home - then the behind closed doors clause lets you do it anywhere on moderate land.

Well there is always horizons where 3 land barons battle (unless it is the same land baron with 3 different adboards)

[Chic Aeon]

My group once sold two 512 lots for $20,000 EACH. So pricing is flexible. We only HAD those two lots (which we purchased for much less) so not land barons by any mean :D.  It was moderate land. 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

The regulars are a pretty friendly bunch.

We try!

[iamyourneighbour]

Don't buy on Zindra, even if you have a full blown sex party weekly the chance of getting LL notice is next to none.

Either way. There are plenty ways to get affordable land but people either

1. Can't wait

2. Simply don't know what reasonable price means 

 Even on Jeogeot I have managed to sell 512 m at a whooping 25K from a empty space I parked on sale at exuberant price I would not pay myself. Why someone would pay $100 for 512 is beyond me consider around the area there are vast grassland. Guess they don't know they could simply ask for auction. 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by iamyourneighbour

[Sarahbuxso]

Here's the thing, I buy and sell land, we have to also pay for the land in order to sell it, we also pay tier prices and most likely are paying far more then the rest to own multiple lots of land that sometimes don't even sell in a good period of time, i've had lots sitting for  months on end and guess who pays for that, its hard sometimes to tell what will sell and what won't, its not all daisies and roses when it comes to the "Land Baron" title.

[So Whimsy]

On 11.4.2018 at 10:00 PM, Rathgrith027 said:

If Adult content were permissible in private parcels on Moderate, I'd be more interested in buying Moderate land.

But it is

It clearly states this in the SL Wiki:

What does "advertises or publicly promotes" mean?

The maturity ratings distinguish between publicly-promoted adult content, required to be on Adult regions, and non-public adult content, such as private homes with a sex bed, that can be located on Moderate land.

Adult activities cannot be advertised or publicly promoted on Moderate land. Such activity must occur privately, behind closed doors on Moderate land (see below), and is forbidden on General land. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the parcel has hidden avatars.

Advertising for SL search using adult words clearly requires being on Adult land. Other examples of advertising or publicly-promoting include renting signs inworld, listing on events, buying ads in newspapers, or distributing flyers or notecards to passersby.

Private invitations to friends are not considered advertising or promoting. Inviting everyone in a small private group that you control is not considered advertising. However, inviting everyone in a public group can be considered a promotional effort.

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

[Fionalein]

especially mind last one "Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers."

Please don't leave your sextoys on your garden perch unless you have also a high hedge... thank you 

PS: unless of course you are on Zindra/Horizons or an adult private island/continent where it's allowed...

Edited April 16, 2018 by Fionalein

[Drake1 Nightfire]

59 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

especially mind last one "Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers."

Please don't leave your sextoys on your garden perch unless you have also a high hedge... thank you 

PS: unless of course you are on Zindra/Horizons or an adult private island/continent where it's allowed...

You can have all the sex toys you want on your own porch in M land that you want. As long as you have Hide avatars from other parcels on no one can see what you are doing. 

Also, that only applies to advertised land, IE a club. Private homes on M land have zero restrictions. Hell you dont have to have a house, as long as the avs are hidden from other parcels. 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You can have all the sex toys you want on your own porch in M land that you want. As long as you have Hide avatars from other parcels on no one can see what you are doing. 

Also, that only applies to advertised land, IE a club. Private homes on M land have zero restrictions. Hell you dont have to have a house, as long as the avs are hidden from other parcels. 

One might well get away with merely hiding avatars, but the Official Adult Content FAQ cited in the Knowledge Base Maturity Ratings article explicitly restricts Adult content and activities:

Quote

Such activity must occur privately, behind closed doors on Moderate land (see below), and is forbidden on General land. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the parcel has hidden avatars.

My understanding of the policy is that publicly promoted (searchable) Adult content must always be in Adult-rated regions only, and the behind-closed-doors exception only applies to private (unsearchable) M-rated parcels.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Qie Niangao

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

One might well get away with merely hiding avatars, but the Official Adult Content FAQ cited in the Knowledge Base Maturity Ratings article explicitly restricts Adult content and activities:

My understanding of the policy is that publicly promoted (searchable) Adult content must always be in Adult-rated regions only, and the behind-closed-doors exception only applies to private (unsearchable) M-rated parcels.

If you had read a little further down you would have seen this part.. 

"What does "behind closed doors" mean?
Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers."

So, yeah, hiding avatars is one of the allowed ways to have adult things on M land.. 

 

[Fionalein]

It does not connect them with an "or" 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Fionalein

[So Whimsy]

13 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

So, yeah, hiding avatars is one of the allowed ways to have adult things on M land.. 

 

You do realise you have to follow all the ways, right? Not just one....