Second Life is filled with petty and rude people.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Can we please not go down that rabbit hole?

I take it you feel this would not lead us down the winding path to Wonderland....

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I take it you feel this would not lead us down the winding path to Wonderland....

It did not end well the last time, so you'd be quite right.

[Qie Niangao]

46 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

As you point out here, the 'teacup' or any other prop must be copy/trans so that guests can say, sip tea with the owner of the furniture. I've often created furniture with LOADS of props -- it would not be fair to me if some other creator could buy this furniture and get all my props to then use in their own furniture for resell -- and they can do that if it's mod/copy/trans....but not if it's copy/trans only.
Actually, a creator who wanted those props would not even have to buy the furniture -- they would only need to receive it from any furniture you had rezzed on your land that gave mod/copy/trans items to guests.

[Emphasis mine.] I'm confused: how does making it no-mod solve that problem? isn't it the very same situation as long as its Copy+Transfer?

Theoretically I guess no-mod prevents them from linking their own prim into it to make it very superficially appear their original creation. Otherwise... an embedded script that deletes if rezzed by an object with the wrong creator? That's now possible, but only in the past few months, and still it would be really risky.

[EDIT: Or... maybe you're using a home-grown prop-attaching script, rather than a standard such as AVsitter?]

Edited January 8, 2018 by Qie Niangao

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm confused: how does making it no-mod solve that problem? isn't it the very same situation as long as its Copy+Transfer?

I'm not an expert scripter, an it's been some time since I made furniture, but I don't think you can pack things in rezzers (like furniture that rezzes things and so qualifies as a rezzer) unless it's modifiable.

  *** can't pack them in rezzers when no-mod unless you created the item

There may be ways around that though via some talented scripter...

Edited January 8, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Otherwise... an embedded script that deletes if rezzed by an object with the wrong creator? That's now possible, but only in the past few months, and still it would be really risky.

Yeah the permission problems with that sounds like a nightmare...

[Qie Niangao]

I'm even more confused now. I understood that you were packaging the props as no-mod. So... yeah, I don't understand.

One reason I'm kind of obsessed by this particular topic is that I did my best to argue with LL that it should be possible to temp-attach objects without them ever transferring to be owned by the wearer, to get around this exact problem. I also convinced Code Violet to add a whole AVpos setting to enable attachment of objects set no-transfer for next owner, so the furniture owner could put no-transfer objects inside their items, even though the furniture seller couldn't package them that way. So if there's magic I've been missing, I should probably find out about it and stop jousting at these particular windmills.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm even more confused now. I understood that you were packaging the props as no-mod. So... yeah, I don't understand.

I clarified in the previous post and added that you must be the creator of the item.

[Ashlyn Voir]

This thread turned into a mystery novel overnight (I’m going by Second Life time since it’s non-discriminatory and it is the game we are on). 

I’ve been called a troll because someone left a snide remark and I decided to respond back? And yet somehow I—of course, I would be of all people because of obvious reasons—am the one who is wrong? Yet, all the passive aggressive and indirect insults that are directed toward me is a-ok? Ahh. I see now.

I don’t doubt there aren’t good people on this game. And I don’t discredit anyone and their experiences with others on the game as well. My own haven’t been too peachy, but it’s not the result of myself. I’ve given people money on the game. I’ve armchair therapied others. I’ve tried being a decent online friend when I could. 

I don’t make alts because they’re used to deceive people. Not to mention, I’m not spending money on an alt when none of my items are transferable on this one. 

That being said, my encounters have been more bad than good as time went on and I won’t deny some of it was my own paranoia stopping me from getting close to anyone on this game. But, a lot of it was from people IMing me rude things about my avatar or calling it names. People bumping into me for the sake of it being funny. Oh, I have the IMs of people saying downright nasty things to me in-world but of course I can’t share them here. 

And, even on SL Flickr when I’ve tried making nice comments on others photos, I’ve been told not to comment when I wrote literally ‘nice photo and nice avatars’. Insane.

Afterwards, I became irritated and made said thread.

But.

 

Continue your baseless assumptions about me or my SL. From the looks of the replies, calling yourselves saints is sort of over doing it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Ashlyn Voir

[Solar Legion]

My kingdom for a "groan" button ....

[Innula Zenovka]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Theoretically I guess no-mod prevents them from linking their own prim into it to make it very superficially appear their original creation. Otherwise... an embedded script that deletes if rezzed by an object with the wrong creator? That's now possible, but only in the past few months, and still it would be really risky.

[EDIT: Or... maybe you're using a home-grown prop-attaching script, rather than a standard such as AVsitter?]

If I were using AVsitter to rez and temp-attach props,  I might try to prevent people from using the props in their own builds by adding my own script to them, in addition to the AVsitter script, that checked a few details of OBJECT_REZZER_KEY and deleted the prop if the details weren't as expected.    That would mean making the props no-mod, to ensure my script can't be removed.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Innula Zenovka

[Rhonda Huntress]

 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

One reason I'm kind of obsessed by this particular topic is that I did my best to argue with LL that it should be possible to temp-attach objects without them ever transferring to be owned by the wearer, to get around this exact problem.

I agree with you about no-mod, Qie, but the whole props thing is already stretched to its limit compensating for shortcomings in the perms system. Asking it to go farther to be open to changes on the order of Experiences is asking too much IMO.

That still doesn't excuse the creeping shift towards no-mod and the passive acceptance of it though. Maybe it's related to how complacent or resigned many of us have become about tossing stuff out in RL when its design doesn't allow for efficient re-use or repairs. The free market hasn't been all that grand about providing better choices either.

[ThorinII]

2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

This thread turned into a mystery novel overnight (I’m going by Second Life time since it’s non-discriminatory and it is the game we are on).

 

Quote

 I don’t doubt there aren’t good people on this game. 

 

Quote

on the game. 

 

Quote

 on this game.

Well, for someone who thinks this virtual world SL were just a game (an assumption that is wrong on many levels in itself), and who isn't a sunshine themselves, I think you are just getting (or have been getting over the years) what you've been out to find.

As the saying goes: "We reap what we sow."

[Ashlyn Voir]

9 minutes ago, ThorinII said:

 

 

 

Well, for someone who thinks this virtual world SL were just a game (an assumption that is wrong on many levels in itself), and who isn't a sunshine themselves, I think you are just getting (or have been getting over the years) what you've been out to find.

As the saying goes: "We reap what we sow."

Because I called this game a game? It is a game. 

Only one person was decent enough to IM me in-game and was completely polite and cordial. I was the same back. Mutual politeness and mutual respect. I don’t think it’s me, hun. 

[Innula Zenovka]

19 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Because I called this game a game? It is a game. 

Only one person was decent enough to IM me in-game and was completely polite and cordial. I was the same back. Mutual politeness and mutual respect. I don’t think it’s me, hun. 

If it is a game, it's one without rules or objectives.  

Everyone's SL is different, I guess.  I spend much of my time scripting, which is for me an enjoyable hobby with the bonus that I actually make a bit of cash from it, and when I'm not scripting I'm usually having the same sort of conversations with friends in SL that we might otherwise be having over coffee or a drink if we lived in the same city rather than on different continents.     Other people get deeply into various kinds of role-play.   I don't think it's safe to generalise.

[LyricalBookworm]

To the OP: I won't claim I know your situation so I can only go by what you type out so please bare with me here.

There is such a thing as being too nice. If you're giving linden away, or being someone's constant ear for therapy it can go to an extreme. It all depends on how you're approaching situations. It is setting yourself up to be the selfless and blameless martyr in the relationships you have. That isn't healthy for either person in the friendship. It is harmful because one is wearing themselves thin by constant giving and allowing the other person to constantly take. Friendship is like a scale. Both sides have to give and take for it to actually balance out.

 You have to make sure you're replenishing yourself of those things you give to others. Otherwise you can become quite bitter towards everyone around you and begin to play the blame game (which it sadly seems is where you have put yourself).

I believe in being there for my loved ones. It is important to be there if someone needs you to lend them an ear, to have fun with, to be a source of reassurance. You have to make sure you take time to replenish what has been lost during those encounters though. I've personally learned from experience that I'm a better sister, girlfriend and friend when I have time to myself to regroup.

There are always going to be negative people anywhere you go. That is a given in life. I said it before in my last post. Only you can control your own behavior. Only you can control your own outlook. You can allow the negative people you encounter to pull you down to the dark place you seem to be in or you can climb out and get on with things. You're allowing others' behavior to impact your whole existence.

From what I've seen here from the replies you've received, no one has claimed to be a saint.

One of the most beautiful things I find about humanity is we are all perfectly...imperfect.

 

 

 

[Avaraia Aljon]

On 1/7/2018 at 2:39 AM, Ashlyn Voir said:

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

 

-please refer to the title of said thread.

confirmed. i suspected people acting that way towards you where just mirroring your own *****ty behavior, but now i don't have to suspect <3

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I agree with you about no-mod, Qie, but the whole props thing is already stretched to its limit compensating for shortcomings in the perms system. Asking it to go farther to be open to changes on the order of Experiences is asking too much IMO.

I certainly don't dispute the complexity of the current situation with perms and props, but I still don't see how no-mod really helps. I'm not aware that prop rezzing requires no-mod settings nor creator-only objects nor really anything like that, so as far as I know the problem is all wrapped up in that copy+transfer requirement. (Well, at least in the case where the prop contains only a standard-issue [AV]object script. I agree with Innula that it would be possible for a different script to match details of the rezzer using OBJECT_REZZER_KEY -- that's the feature I mentioned was only relatively recently introduced -- although it might risk excluding some conditions unintentionally.)

Certainly I wouldn't expect creators to anticipate the utility of Experiences, nor necessarily to recognize the feature's value even today. I am arguing, though, that setting that no-mod bit prevents ever taking advantage of such features as they arise, with no actual benefit to the creator.

[Ashlyn Voir]

13 minutes ago, Avaraia Aljon said:

confirmed. i suspected people acting that way towards you where just mirroring your own *****ty behavior, but now i don't have to suspect <3

Oh, hunty hush. 

29 minutes ago, LyricalBookworm said:

To the OP: I won't claim I know your situation so I can only go by what you type out so please bare with me here.

There is such a thing as being too nice. If you're giving linden away, or being someone's constant ear for therapy it can go to an extreme. It all depends on how you're approaching situations. It is setting yourself up to be the selfless and blameless martyr in the relationships you have. That isn't healthy for either person in the friendship. It is harmful because one is wearing themselves thin by constant giving and allowing the other person to constantly take. Friendship is like a scale. Both sides have to give and take for it to actually balance out.

 You have to make sure you're replenishing yourself of those things you give to others. Otherwise you can become quite bitter towards everyone around you and begin to play the blame game (which it sadly seems is where you have put yourself).

I believe in being there for my loved ones. It is important to be there if someone needs you to lend them an ear, to have fun with, to be a source of reassurance. You have to make sure you take time to replenish what has been lost during those encounters though. I've personally learned from experience that I'm a better sister, girlfriend and friend when I have time to myself to regroup.

There are always going to be negative people anywhere you go. That is a given in life. I said it before in my last post. Only you can control your own behavior. Only you can control your own outlook. You can allow the negative people you encounter to pull you down to the dark place you seem to be in or you can climb out and get on with things. You're allowing others' behavior to impact your whole existence.

From what I've seen here from the replies you've received, no one has claimed to be a saint.

One of the most beautiful things I find about humanity is we are all perfectly...imperfect.

 

 

 

Thank for for being the only person on this thread to leave a nice and reasonable response to me. And yes, very much true and well said

[Dillon Levenque]

21 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Several times in my life, I've been told I'm intimidating. I hate hearing that, I don't want to appear intimidating. I probably haven't even met the next person who will tell me that, so I certainly can't change them. So, it's all on me. And it's all on you.

Nonsense. You're a pussycat. ;-)

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Dillon Levenque said:

Nonsense. You're a pussycat. ;-)

What the hell do you know?

[Rhonda Huntress]

 

Yeah, I get it you're an outcast. Always under attack, always coming in last, bringing up the past. No one owes you anything. I think you need a shotgun blast - a kick in the ass. So paranoid; watch your back!

 

Hola, here we go. 
Another lose cannon, gone bi-polar, slipped down, couldn't get much lower. Quicksand's got no sense of humor.  I'm still laughing like hell. You think that the cryin' to me, looking so sorry that I'm gonna believe. You've been infected by a social disease. Well, then take your medicine.

 

I created the sound of madness. Wrote the book on pain, somehow I'm still here to explain that the darkest hour never comes in the night.
You can sleep with a gun.  When you gonna wake up and fight?

 

I'm so sick of this tombstone mentality. If there's an afterlife then it'll set you free, but I'm not gonna part the seas.  You're a self-fulfilling prophecy. You think that cryin' to me looking so sorry that I'm gonna believe. You've been infected by a social disease. Well, then take your medicine.

 

I created the sound of madness. Wrote the book on pain somehow I'm still here to explain that the darkest hour never comes in the night. You can sleep with a gun. When you gonna wake up and fight for yourself?

 

I created the sound of madness. Wrote the book on pain somehow I'm still here to explain that the darkest hour never comes in the night. You can sleep with a gun. When you gonna wake up and fight for yourself?

 

I created the sound of madness. Wrote the book on pain somehow I'm still here to explain that the darkest hour never comes in the night. You can sleep with a gun. When you gonna wake up and fight for yourself?

When you gonna wake up and fight, for yourself?
When you gonna wake up and fight, for yourself?
When you gonna wake up and fight, for yourself?
For yourself?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Just to clarify what I'm talking about (obviously Qie knows this,  but non-scripters might appreciate the background), a big problem for anyone making items that use attachable props (so, for example, furniture that gives out cups of coffee, or glasses of wine, or books and so on) is that the props have to be copy-transfer.     That's so that whoever buys the item of furniture can use it to rez cups of coffee that attach to her friends' hands.

Many creators of full-perm mesh objects make it -- for obvious reasons -- a condition of sale that items made with the meshs can't be distributed copy-transfer.    This has often frustrated me when I've seen really nice full perms mesh items I would love to use as disposable props, but can't because I'd have to supply them copy transfer.

However, since comparatively recently, I've been able to reassure the mesh creators that I can include a script in the prop that will check on the UUID of the object that rezzed it, and then check both the creator of that that object and (the really good bit) the exact date and time, down to several decimal points of a second, that the mesh used to create the rezzer object was first uploaded (or, as appropriate, the root prim of the original instance of the rezzer was first rezzed).   If the prop is rezzed from someone's inventory, or from an object other than the item from which I intend it to be rezzed, it will delete itself.    Only if it's rezzed by the item I want to rez it will it temp attach to an avatar, and temp-attached items don't survive being detached (or a relog).

While it's rash to say anything is foolproof, at least that's going to make it petty difficult for someone to take the copy-transfer prop out of my build and use it for their own purposes, but this does depend on my making the prop no-mod (so my script that checks the uuid of the rezzer object can't be removed).

[Luna Bliss]

It seems time to lock this thread.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

However, since comparatively recently, I've been able to reassure the mesh creators that I can include a script in the prop that will check on the UUID of the object that rezzed it, and then check both the creator of that that object and (the really good bit) the exact date and time, down to several decimal points of a second, that the mesh used to create the rezzer object was first uploaded (or, as appropriate, the root prim of the original instance of the rezzer was first rezzed).   If the prop is rezzed from someone's inventory, or from an object other than the item from which I intend it to be rezzed, it will delete itself.    Only if it's rezzed by the item I want to rez it will it temp attach to an avatar, and temp-attached items don't survive being detached (or a relog).

wow that's really cool...if I ever make more rezzing rugs or furniture I'll look into purchasing that from you..