Why Do The Lindens Tolerate This Kind of Griefing?

[Prokofy Neva]

I've been harassed by the same individuals/group for some five years. They are sometimes banned but span new alts.

What they do is scatter effigies of my real-life self, based on a magazine photo, all over my sims, in various states -- dead, eating a chicken, with my glasses knocked off like Piggy in "Lord of the Flies," in black face with an Obama sign (I voted for Obama), with Communist flags and memes (I'm a critic of Communism) etc.

Often these alts will take my profile picture as theirs and claim to be my alt, and claim they are involved in service or security with my tenants.

They force tenants to move out, annoy them, and block some from moving in. They also use the usual griefing methods of sending TPs, sending dollar payments, using shout spam relays on a sim with my name as the object to make people think I'm doing the shouting, stalking, bumping, etc. 

Each time a new one spawns, they grab the same set of griefer prims from the previous alt. So why don't the Lindens eradicate these grief objects, huge-primmed items, from the asset server? That would at least slow them down.

Why don't they track the new alts to the stashes on rental sims of silent partners or sandboxes their mains frequent? Even I can figure this out, and the Lindens have more tools to do this research.

This kind of massive abuse shouldn't be a misdemeanor, it should result in a perma-ban. It's disclosure of real life, object littering, targeted behavior intended to annoy, impersonation, and bumping as well as stalking. Yet all of these alts stay in the people list, and reappear some days later (as if only banned for 3 days or something) to start their harassment anew.

People who have read about my other complaints (all my stuff being dumped off the Marketplace at once due to a glitch, 15,000 inventory items going to trash to disappear for good, etc.) think I'm crazy to say "the Lindens are in on it" or tell me that "If you don't like it, there's the door." Yes, the forced-exit strategy is what griefers want.

A big boon is the ability to keep open groups, but ban people who spam and litter. That helps. But what the griefers are trying to do is force closed the open society of Second Life. They are little totalitarians. They can't bear that some people want to use SL differently than they do, i.e. for business or socializing and not sandboxing and griefing. So they disrupt and disrupt, hoping to force closure (like Julian Assange and WikiLeaks). Someone might say, oh, but why have an open group? If they can't join your group, they can't litter. The problem with that theory is that it undermines the original premise of an open society -- and the vast convenience to group tenants who want to have their friends over to rez things etc. without having to ask a landlord for an invitation every time. Most people aren't griefers, and their needs outweigh the need to deter griefers -- as in real life, the balance between freedom and security.

Furthermore, griefers are often on rogue viewers where they can override group permissions and land settings. I've seen them litter on land that has every box unchecked, even though they are banned from the group. So it kind of makes that whole debate moot. 

What really needs to happen is for the Lindens to do the following:

o not just "touch" every abuse report (as Patch Linden tells us they do) but act on clustered serious reports like these 

o trace alts to their sources from their chat and social connections and act against the mains who pretend they aren't griefers

o remove grief objects (and the set in my griefing are far from the only ones -- there are tons of self-replicating cubes with ugly pictures, etc.) from the asset server

o instantly and permanently ban alts who persist in the same behavior with the same objects - end the notion that they are "creative" in other respects and "deserve a second chance".

o enable abuse reports to be made as support tickets -- griefing should be treated like sim performance, a problem that you file a ticket for and sim tools that the Lindens have at their disposal can be used. The Lindens refuse this route out of fear of a deluge, but they should accept reports that involve chronic, repeated behavior, object littering or sim crashing and just treat it as a sim performance issue and not be prejudiced against it, forcing residents into tiny abuse-report templates.

 

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

29 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've been harassed by the same individuals/group for some five years. They are sometimes banned but span new alts.

What they do is scatter effigies of my real-life self, based on a magazine photo, all over my sims, in various states -- dead, eating a chicken, with my glasses knocked off like Piggy in "Lord of the Flies," in black face with an Obama sign (I voted for Obama), with Communist flags and memes (I'm a critic of Communism) etc.

Often these alts will take my profile picture as theirs and claim to be my alt, and claim they are involved in service or security with my tenants.

They force tenants to move out, annoy them, and block some from moving in. They also use the usual griefing methods of sending TPs, sending dollar payments, using shout spam relays on a sim with my name as the object to make people think I'm doing the shouting, stalking, bumping, etc. 

Each time a new one spawns, they grab the same set of griefer prims from the previous alt. So why don't the Lindens eradicate these grief objects, huge-primmed items, from the asset server? That would at least slow them down.

Why don't they track the new alts to the stashes on rental sims of silent partners or sandboxes their mains frequent? Even I can figure this out, and the Lindens have more tools to do this research.

This kind of massive abuse shouldn't be a misdemeanor, it should result in a perma-ban. It's disclosure of real life, object littering, targeted behavior intended to annoy, impersonation, and bumping as well as stalking. Yet all of these alts stay in the people list, and reappear some days later (as if only banned for 3 days or something) to start their harassment anew.

People who have read about my other complaints (all my stuff being dumped off the Marketplace at once due to a glitch, 15,000 inventory items going to trash to disappear for good, etc.) think I'm crazy to say "the Lindens are in on it" or tell me that "If you don't like it, there's the door." Yes, the forced-exit strategy is what griefers want.

A big boon is the ability to keep open groups, but ban people who spam and litter. That helps. But what the griefers are trying to do is force closed the open society of Second Life. They are little totalitarians. They can't bear that some people want to use SL differently than they do, i.e. for business or socializing and not sandboxing and griefing. So they disrupt and disrupt, hoping to force closure (like Julian Assange and WikiLeaks). Someone might say, oh, but why have an open group? If they can't join your group, they can't litter. The problem with that theory is that it undermines the original premise of an open society -- and the vast convenience to group tenants who want to have their friends over to rez things etc. without having to ask a landlord for an invitation every time. Most people aren't griefers, and their needs outweigh the need to deter griefers -- as in real life, the balance between freedom and security.

Furthermore, griefers are often on rogue viewers where they can override group permissions and land settings. I've seen them litter on land that has every box unchecked, even though they are banned from the group. So it kind of makes that whole debate moot. 

What really needs to happen is for the Lindens to do the following:

o not just "touch" every abuse report (as Patch Linden tells us they do) but act on clustered serious reports like these 

o trace alts to their sources from their chat and social connections and act against the mains who pretend they aren't griefers

o remove grief objects (and the set in my griefing are far from the only ones -- there are tons of self-replicating cubes with ugly pictures, etc.) from the asset server

o instantly and permanently ban alts who persist in the same behavior with the same objects - end the notion that they are "creative" in other respects and "deserve a second chance".

o enable abuse reports to be made as support tickets -- griefing should be treated like sim performance, a problem that you file a ticket for and sim tools that the Lindens have at their disposal can be used. The Lindens refuse this route out of fear of a deluge, but they should accept reports that involve chronic, repeated behavior, object littering or sim crashing and just treat it as a sim performance issue and not be prejudiced against it, forcing residents into tiny abuse-report templates.

 

   I'm glad you insist on keeping the groups open, in spite of these difficulties. I don't know if LL can or will ultimately do anything effective about this. If not, the only way to win this game is either not to play or play the longest.

[Paul Hexem]

Just the other day I watched a griefer take over the JIRA.

I suspect it's not that LL "tolerates" this stuff, more that they're inept and powerless.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Gadget Portal said:

Just the other day I watched a griefer take over the JIRA.

I suspect it's not that LL "tolerates" this stuff, more that they're inept and powerless.

 

But the Lindens aren't at all inept and powerless. They police the JIRA fiercely, in fact. Would that they police actual inworld griefers as fiercely. I don't understand whether it's a function of ideology ("everything is creative, even griefing in its own way") which prevailed some years ago and may linger OR simply that there are way too many reports to follow up, and they have to focus on the most serious crimes like theft of Lindens.

[Phil Deakins]

You ask valid questions but perhaps the more telling question you could ask is, "Why is it ME who is picked on?"

 

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's [...] targeted behavior intended to annoy

That's what you do, but here you're criticising the griefers for doing it against you.

You put yourself 'out there' with so much criticising, wild conspiracy ideas, etc. Sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, but you never admit to being wrong, or even mistaken. Instead, you just silently back away. In other words, you have made yourself a prime target for anyone who wants one.

Some years ago, I came across a guy who dressed as the comic character Green Lantern, and went around SL trying to right wrongs. He was griefed very frequently because he made himself a prime target too.

It's your nature to be very critical and outspoken (sometimes too outspoken), but, imo, that's why you are the target that you are.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Callum Meriman]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

People who have read about my other complaints (all my stuff being dumped off the Marketplace at once due to a glitch, 15,000 inventory items going to trash to disappear for good, etc.) think I'm crazy to say "the Lindens are in on it" or tell me that "If you don't like it, there's the door." Yes, the forced-exit strategy is what griefers want.

Actually, I have to admit that your work on bringing the trash issue to light has directly helped a lot of people. Thanks for that.

 

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What really needs to happen is for the Lindens to do the following:

o not just "touch" every abuse report (as Patch Linden tells us they do) but act on clustered serious reports like these 

...

o enable abuse reports to be made as support tickets -- griefing should be treated like sim performance, a problem that you file a ticket for and sim tools that the Lindens have at their disposal can be used. The Lindens refuse this route out of fear of a deluge, but they should accept reports that involve chronic, repeated behavior, object littering or sim crashing and just treat it as a sim performance issue and not be prejudiced against it, forcing residents into tiny abuse-report templates.

 

I've snipped some points I don't agree with, but honestly, I don't think the Lab's outsourcing company even touch ARs any more. They likely claim the money to do so from the Lab, but don't actually act on anything they said they did. Pure KPI gathering without actually reading. All they look at are the cream.

 

Yet, this should be clear cut and 2 minutes work. From the TOS...

Quote

6.1.iv (iv) Post, display, or transmit Content (including any communication(s) with employees of Linden Lab) that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

That covers profile abuse. Profile abuse is so simple to see.  Why are the profile abusers being let off?

 

 

An accountable tickets system, yes, I actually think the Lab might act if they were accountable to the people paying hundreds or thousands of dollars teir a month. But I'd likely add the suggestion to do it through concierge so it doesn't get full up with people on 512M2 blocks who are complaining about the colour of the Ex Husband's tie or they got an empty box in a MP scam. This sort of thing - accountable ARs for major griefers would and should need someone to hold substantial land first (including mainland). Around 1/2 a sim to a full sim as a floor point, maybe.

Another option would be to bring it back in house, and give this outsourcing company the flick. When you get to deal with a real Linden, like the ones in Land, or Concierge, then you see the care and professionalism of the company. Yet, as soon as you hit this bunch of outsourcers with an AR, ugh. It's like driving into a brick wall. 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Callum Meriman
removing even an edited clean example of profile abuse.

[Phil Deakins]

Dealing with AR's is outsourced now? I didn't know that. They used to outsource some things to an outsourced group who were all called Scout, and I think there was another outsourced group either before or after them, but I didn't know that dealing with ARs was ever outsourced.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

You ask valid questions but perhaps the more telling question you could ask is, "Why is it ME who is picked on?"

 

That's what you do, but here you're criticising the griefers for doing it against you.

You put yourself 'out there' with so much criticising, wild conspiracy ideas, etc. Sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, but you never admit to being wrong, or even mistaken. Instead, you just silently back away. In other words, you have made yourself a prime target for anyone who wants one.

Some years ago, I came across a guy who dressed as the comic character Green Lantern, and went around SL trying to right wrongs. He was griefed very frequently because he made himself a prime target too.

It's your nature to be very critical and outspoken (sometimes too outspoken), but, imo, that's why you are the target that you are.

Let me see now. Criticizing anything about SL legally, on the forums, in writing, is "just the same as" as an anonymous griefer scattering creepy RL effigies of myself all over my sims, terrorizing my tenants, forcing them to move out or not move in, stalking me around the grid and harassing me, yep, I could count on you for that "analysis".

[Prokofy Neva]

17 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Actually, I have to admit that your work on bringing the trash issue to light has directly helped a lot of people. Thanks for that.

 

I've snipped some points I don't agree with, but honestly, I don't think the Lab's outsourcing company even touch ARs any more. They likely claim the money to do so from the Lab, but don't actually act on anything they said they did. Pure KPI gathering without actually reading. All they look at are the cream.

 

Yet, this should be clear cut and 2 minutes work. From the TOS...

That covers profile abuse. Profile abuse is so simple to see.  Why are the profile abusers being let off?

 

 

An accountable tickets system, yes, I actually think the Lab might act if they were accountable to the people paying hundreds or thousands of dollars teir a month. But I'd likely add the suggestion to do it through concierge so it doesn't get full up with people on 512M2 blocks who are complaining about the colour of the Ex Husband's tie or they got an empty box in a MP scam. This sort of thing - accountable ARs for major griefers would and should need someone to hold substantial land first (including mainland). Around 1/2 a sim to a full sim as a floor point, maybe.

Another option would be to bring it back in house, and give this outsourcing company the flick. When you get to deal with a real Linden, like the ones in Land, or Concierge, then you see the care and professionalism of the company. Yet, as soon as you hit this bunch of outsourcers with an AR, ugh. It's like driving into a brick wall. 

 

I can understand how this chore got outsourced, but it needs to be managed by full-time, fully-benefitted Lindens who don't have friends among the griefer population (which has been a chronic problem in the past for various reasons, one of which is that griefers target Lindens to flatter and friend).

I think the idea of a "Concierge level" for dealing with griefers or a paid anti-griefer service would be helpful, but the Lindens can't appear to have a system where you pay them to have them enforce their own TOS, which they should do for everyone, as part of their obligation to users, free or paid.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Prokofy Neva

[Qie Niangao]

6 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But the Lindens aren't at all inept and powerless. They police the JIRA fiercely, in fact. Would that they police actual inworld griefers as fiercely. I don't understand whether it's a function of ideology ("everything is creative, even griefing in its own way") which prevailed some years ago and may linger OR simply that there are way too many reports to follow up, and they have to focus on the most serious crimes like theft of Lindens.

Unfortunately I think this "too many reports" thing is the situation now. I don't actually know if governance enforcement is still outsourced or not, but I do know they genuinely work some ARs, but I suspect the queue is simply in constant overflow, where "touching" each report can be no more than flashing it across somebody's screen for a moment.

FWIW:

• The response to the recent Jira assault was analogous to removing a group's open access: Now one can only comment on one's own Jira items.
• A similar "closing-in" was also the response to wiki griefing a year or so ago, still handled the same way (residents are granted ability to edit items only by special request).
• As frustrating as griefing is to landholders, it also cripples the platform's progress. For months now, every server user group is basically a report on measures to curb that griefing which must be addressed by code -- it's consuming so much developer resources there's hardly time to prioritize the actual fixes and advances they want to make. Hence creators are stuck with the same old bugs and the same old features, with a huge and growing backlog of opportunities lost to griefer response. God only knows what it must do to developer morale.

Finally, a limited, stopgap compromise between "open" and "closed" groups might be possible that would use a bot to invite renters as well as those others requested by renters, with a blacklist of those the landlord knows to be a threat. (It would need to be a bot, not a script, because scripts have always been denied any useful group functionality.)

[Phil Deakins]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Let me see now. Criticizing anything about SL legally, on the forums, in writing, is "just the same as" as an anonymous griefer scattering creepy RL effigies of myself all over my sims, terrorizing my tenants, forcing them to move out or not move in, stalking me around the grid and harassing me, yep, I could count on you for that "analysis".

No it's not the same at all. One is ok IF the criticism is justified, and the other isn't. But that wasn't what I said or suggested. I pointed out why, imo, it's you who gets targetted.

It isn't just Lindens and LL who you target. Sometimes you go out of your way trying to find things to criticise publically, whether or not the criticism is justified. You put yourself out there is what I'm saying, and I'm suggesting that it makes you a target for anyone who is looking for one.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

14 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

People who have read about my other complaints (all my stuff being dumped off the Marketplace at once due to a glitch, 15,000 inventory items going to trash to disappear for good, etc.) think I'm crazy to say "the Lindens are in on it" or tell me that "If you don't like it, there's the door." Yes, the forced-exit strategy is what griefers want.

 

 

When I asked you for your reasons for staying you misinterpreted my words to mean the above.  That was neither what I said nor what I meant.  It was rather a genuine and serious question, and you haven't answered it, although of course you don't have to.  But when many people have made repeated suggestions to you to mitigate the bullying you suffer, and it IS bullying, and I DO sympathise, you turn those suggestions away, wilfully misunderstand them and refuse to help yourself.

OF COURSE you and your tenants should not be griefed, but what actually happens both in rl and here is NOT ideal and bad people do mean stuff, because they can and because they know it teases (thanks Mr Dodgson).  

I think all you've done is conclusively prove that griefers can grief and LL will not always or effectively stop it.

I hope your week gets better.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Some years ago, I came across a guy who dressed as the comic character Green Lantern, and went around SL trying to right wrongs. He was griefed very frequently because he made himself a prime target too.

I can see why, I don't even know the guy and now I want to give him a wedgie!

[Love Zhaoying]

9 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

You put yourself 'out there' with so much criticising, wild conspiracy ideas, etc. Sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, but you never admit to being wrong, or even mistaken. Instead, you just silently back away. In other words, you have made yourself a prime target for anyone who wants one.

The Harsh is strong with this one.

[Whirly Fizzle]

6 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Dealing with AR's is outsourced now?

As far as I'm aware, all AR reports are dealt with by actual Lindens in the Governance team.

Pinging @Tommy Linden to clarify.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Whirly Fizzle
Summoned SuperTom :P

[Lucia Nightfire]

I've filed requests for land owner features that would deter resource abuse in the past. Here are a few examples:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3854 (Needs updating to add/remove paramters)

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4153

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-11653

LL developers have publicly stated their fears of adding additional options to the About Land floater citing fears of overwhelming users or bloating the menu.

This is simply and unjust & undeserved stigma considering the success of Firestorm which has 3x as many options as LL's viewer and is used by a majority of Secondlife users.

Land resource controls would deter much of the common resource based grief vectors used today and would spare guests from unwanted experiences and spare Governance receiving multiple reports for the same events.

[ChinRey]

11 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Some years ago, I came across a guy who dressed as the comic character Green Lantern, and went around SL trying to right wrongs. He was griefed very frequently because he made himself a prime target too.

...

There have been several Green Lantern avis in Second Life, but if it's the one I think it is, he certainly gave as much as he took. One of the crazy old soldiers refusing to accept that the Griefer Was ended ten years ago, he used to recruit newcomers at Barbarossa to his Justice League spinoff group. Part of the initiation rite his recruits had to go through, was to find some poorly protected sim and launch a massive noise-and-particle attack. If you somehow managed to do that without getting AR'ed and perma-banned, you were in. I'm sure many people who were here two or three years ago remember the occasional Hal Jordan griefer attacks. That was him.

To be fair, his attacks were always time limited and scripted to end by themselves after an hour or so and he seems to have stopped now. Last time I heard of him in a griefer context was at the Balance attack a year or two ago and he definitely wasn't responsible for that one - he jsut happened to be there to watch the show.

[Tommy Linden]

3 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

As far as I'm aware, all AR reports are dealt with by actual Lindens in the Governance team.

Pinging @Tommy Linden to clarify.

Correct, all reports are handled by real life Lindens who take each report seriously and review every single one of them.

[Prokofy Neva]

@Tommy Linden - I'm glad to hear that abuse reports aren't outsourced and are taken seriously.

Then to return to the subject of this post, it is perplexing that a series of four different alts of a chronic griefer all would be free after a week of:

o littering prims all over my sims, effigies of my real-life self, high-prim, in various poses of death, destruction, etc.

o impersonating me with my photo and business name on their profile

o spouting nonsense, including racist insanity to my tenants to scare them away

o deploying spamming shouters from objects with my name in my sims

o sending TPs, friendship requests, objects etc

An answer like "because your group is open" or "because build is turned on" wouldn't be acceptable because obviously you can use group ban and land ban,

but if griefers make strings of alts, that's no help.

I've also seen this series of griefers override group powers on rogue viewers.

The features of "build" and "open groups" shouldn't be removed merely because griefers -- which LL should ban more seriously and thoroughly -- keep exploting them.

So if this keeps recurring, I can only conclude:

o Lindens aren't looking at this systematically or as a whole but in a sea of reports, see each one as a single act not even worth banning for, which is why all 4 alts remain inworld capable of chronic harassment of me and my tenants. 

o Lindens want to force the closure of groups and land despite creating these features

o Lindens are in on it

In the past, Lindens have eventually removed this particular group of griefers and ceased their activity, but often only after weeks of harassment. It seems to me the mere fact of taking a person's real-life picture, and making effigies of them in-world to intimidate them and their business should be grounds for permanent removal from SL. Yet it's not.

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

16 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

10 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

When I asked you for your reasons for staying you misinterpreted my words to mean the above.  That was neither what I said nor what I meant.  It was rather a genuine and serious question, and you haven't answered it, although of course you don't have to.  But when many people have made repeated suggestions to you to mitigate the bullying you suffer, and it IS bullying, and I DO sympathise, you turn those suggestions away, wilfully misunderstand them and refuse to help yourself.

OF COURSE you and your tenants should not be griefed, but what actually happens both in rl and here is NOT ideal and bad people do mean stuff, because they can and because they know it teases (thanks Mr Dodgson).  

I think all you've done is conclusively prove that griefers can grief and LL will not always or effectively stop it.

I hope your week gets better.

 

My week is fine.

I didn't misinterpret your concern trolling nor "return to a thread I left" -- the system stops posts sometimes and you have to wait for time to pass. There aren't any "many suggestions to mitigate bullying" that aren't already used, i.e. banning from groups and land, turning off build and many others. Odd that you should think there are "suggestions" when there aren't -- as a suggestion of turning my land into bunkers hasn't been made here. You're willfully misreporting what anyone can see is in this thread, and I see that's your method. It doesn't work on me. The Lindens need to fix their bugs on the MP if they want to keep customers and they need to do more obvious things to stop griefing like remove mains (they have done this in the past) and stashes on islands rented from the "uninvolved" -- they've done this in the past, but all too rarely and sometimes they reverse it.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

No it's not the same at all. One is ok IF the criticism is justified, and the other isn't. But that wasn't what I said or suggested. I pointed out why, imo, it's you who gets targetted.

It isn't just Lindens and LL who you target. Sometimes you go out of your way trying to find things to criticise publically, whether or not the criticism is justified. You put yourself out there is what I'm saying, and I'm suggesting that it makes you a target for anyone who is looking for one.

Your responses are all known quantities and always have been conditioned on your own set of grievances, so the best thing is not to respond to you. I'll point out that prim littering, using RL information to harass inworld, impersonation, spamming with noise makers named for avatars, etc. etc. -- these are all offenses in the TOS and are actionable. They don't stop being offenses because somebody writes a blog you don't like or criticizes "too much" in your view. An offense is an offense, and the Lindens need to prosecute them, the end.

[Prokofy Neva]

As frustrating as griefing is to landholders, it also cripples the platform's progress. For months now, every server user group is basically a report on measures to curb that griefing which must be addressed by code -- it's consuming so much developer resources there's hardly time to prioritize the actual fixes and advances they want to make. Hence creators are stuck with the same old bugs and the same old features, with a huge and growing backlog of opportunities lost to griefer response. God only knows what it must do to developer morale.

Finally, a limited, stopgap compromise between "open" and "closed" groups might be possible that would use a bot to invite renters as well as those others requested by renters, with a blacklist of those the landlord knows to be a threat. (It would need to be a bot, not a script, because scripts have always been denied any useful group functionality.)

   I don't know what these issues are that "require code" to address. Eliminating griefer alts and their griefer objects passed from alt to alt don't require code to address, but merely political will -- and time.

There already are bots that serve as greeters and offer the group. I don't want to have a bot like that consuming resources on the Mainland. It's one more avatar on a sim where 16 avatars already starts to ding performance. I just don't want it, it's not my preferred method. But lots of landlords have them already. As for blacklists, you can put bans in the group, so that's already there. Not sure what you mean then.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

My week is fine.

I didn't misinterpret your concern trolling nor "return to a thread I left" -- the system stops posts sometimes and you have to wait for time to pass. There aren't any "many suggestions to mitigate bullying" that aren't already used, i.e. banning from groups and land, turning off build and many others. Odd that you should think there are "suggestions" when there aren't -- as a suggestion of turning my land into bunkers hasn't been made here. You're willfully misreporting what anyone can see is in this thread, and I see that's your method. It doesn't work on me. The Lindens need to fix their bugs on the MP if they want to keep customers and they need to do more obvious things to stop griefing like remove mains (they have done this in the past) and stashes on islands rented from the "uninvolved" -- they've done this in the past, but all too rarely and sometimes they reverse it.

 

Uh huh, well, I'm still not a 'concern troll', adorable as that sounds   I can't say for sure, but it certainly appears to be the case that you either get griefed a lot more than anyone else, or that it bothers you more than anyone else, or that other people who are griefed simply use the tools available and the problem stops/diminishes/becomes bearable.  Whichever it is, I'm absolutely sure that until you change something that you do this isn't going away.  And you won't change what you do, because you don't have to, and you're not breaking the TOS and the Lindens should fix it.  

This will run and run - I have popcorn.

And whilst I am not a 'concern troll' (are they the ones with the crazy hair and bodies that look, but do NOT taste like caramel?) I am a wee bit less moved by Prok's situation than I was last week.  More entertained, though, so lucky me!

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

15 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

No it's not the same at all. One is ok IF the criticism is justified, and the other isn't. But that wasn't what I said or suggested. I pointed out why, imo, it's you who gets targetted.

It isn't just Lindens and LL who you target. Sometimes you go out of your way trying to find things to criticise publically, whether or not the criticism is justified. You put yourself out there is what I'm saying, and I'm suggesting that it makes you a target for anyone who is looking for one.

Yanno Phil, I am slightly beginning to wonder if maybe this is a fetish thing for Prok?  I mean it's a bit left of centre, and YKINMKBYKIOK, and left is not a natural place to put Prok, but it could be?  We should not judge. (solemn face emoji)

[Phil Deakins]

11 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I'm sure many people who were here two or three years ago remember the occasional Hal Jordan griefer attacks. That was him.

Yep. That was the guy.