How would you have handled this situation

[Qie Niangao]

Worse than a little stray Nazi symbology is hosting an event for comic book characters -- an incitement to infringe intellectual property if ever there was one.

[Perrie Juran]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Sheleaf wrote:

 dont you really know what the nazis did to the jews ?

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Nazi's are a part of history.  Hiding anything Nazi related is how people will

not know

the answer to your question.

 

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

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And History has taught me that even among those who learn it many still repeat it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Sheleaf wrote:

 dont you really know what the nazis did to the jews ?

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Nazi's are a part of history.  Hiding anything Nazi related is how people will

not know

the answer to your question.

 

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

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And yet I remember the drama over the avatar named after Zyklon B. I did some research at the time - interesting.The word has developed such a connotation that there were protests by non-Germans recently when German companies tried to name athletic shoes and vacuum cleaners "Zyklon" - I saw articles describing it as a "Nazi word." Despite the fact that:

'Zyklon' is simply the German spelling for the word 'Cyclone.'

Zyklon B was just a commercial fumigating chemical that had been sold all over the world for years before World War II (and, in fact, was used by the United States government to fumigate migrant railroad cars.) It's still being made, and in one of the same factories that made the chemicals used at the death camps, but it's been renamed Uragan ("Hurricane") D2.

Now of course, in the English speaking word zyklon is only associated with Nazi death camps. But is that a reason to strip a useful word out of the German language? Wouldn't the Vietnamese have the same right to ask English to remove the word "Orange" due to its association with a dioxin-laden defoliant? It's not like we'd really miss it - it doesn't even rhyme with anything.

Personally I'm leery about banning words/symbols - by declaring the symbols to be the problem you're giving them power over you. The people who use them maliciously will still have the same thoughts and actions whether or not they can use those particular symbols - they'll just find something else.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeKingleigh]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

But is that a reason to strip a useful word out of the German language?

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"**bleep**" was just a word for a colour (OK, smartypants, so black isn't really a colour) and that got stripped from polite usage, as the enforced bleep demonstrates nicely; the non-heterosexuals stole our lovely word "gay"; so what would be justifiable reasons to remove, revise or replace a word?

Or is that just the way the cookie crumbles?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Wouldn't the Vietnamese have the same right to ask English to remove the word "Orange" due to its association with a dioxin-laden defoliant? It's not like we'd really miss it - it doesn't even rhyme with anything.

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Actually, around here it rhymes with revenge, inter alia.

Joe

/doesn't get het up about how words are used

//just about the way they are misused

///and abused.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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JoeKingleigh wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

But is that a reason to strip a useful word out of the German language?

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"**bleep**" was just a word for a colour (OK, smartypants, so black isn't really a colour) and that got stripped from polite usage, as the enforced bleep demonstrates nicely; the non-heterosexuals stole our lovely word "gay";

so what would be justifiable reasons to remove, revise or replace a word?

Or is that just the way the cookie crumbles?

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You'd remove, revise or replace a word for the same reason you'd remove, revise or replace anything else - because it's stopped doing its job. I wouldn't say, "That Joe is a gay fellow," to suggest that you were happy because "gay" no longer is effective doing that job as it's too associated with another meaning. If you tell someone "DON'T USE THAT WORD BECAUSE IT OFFENDS ME" and their goal is to offend, you've guaranteed that word a long, offensive life.

[Rhonda Huntress]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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It's not like we'd really miss it - it doesn't even rhyme with anything.

 

 

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Door henge

[JoeKingleigh]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

You'd remove, revise or replace a word for the same reason you'd remove, revise or replace anything else - because it's stopped doing its job. I wouldn't say, "That Joe is a gay fellow," to suggest that you were happy because "gay" no longer is effective doing that job as it's too associated with another meaning.

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And my complaint is that it was hijacked for completely political purposes, and while the hijacking was in process nobody protested that a good word doing a good job was being ruined, until it became ineffective - because they would have been unjustly accused of being homophobic..

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:If you tell someone "DON'T USE THAT WORD BECAUSE IT OFFENDS ME" and their

goal

is to offend, you've guaranteed that word a long, offensive life.

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If you are  stupid enough to be offended by a word, rather than the person using it, then you deserve to be offended by the smallest inconsequential thing - and you probably are.

Joe

/language is a living thing

//so don't cut off the flowering parts

///remove the dead wood.

[CheriColette]

I liked Theresas post. It was interesting because I did know about Zyklon and Zyklon b. 

And isnt that what some countries try to do with burning of books and annihilation of the learned people>>>>stop us thinking for ourselves so they have ascendancy. Past history has to be talked about and not hidden/forgotten so at least we have a chance not to repeat it as Perrie pointed out. 

[CheriColette]

 

Did the avi costume (minus the swastika) look like this (picture from wiki) ??    

File:Master_Comics_21

nothing like the uniforms the German Nazi wore. 

[Innula Zenovka]

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CheriColette wrote:

 

Did the avi costume (minus the swastika) look like this (picture from wiki) ??    

File:Master_Comics_21

nothing like the uniforms the German Nazi wore. 

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Since we are told that the chap in the "Captain Nazi" outfit had changed the swastika to a simple cross, I don't see how anyone could possibly realise that someone wearing a dark green superhero costume (complete with baggy y-fronts outside his tights) with a big cross on his chest, enormous gold epaulettes and red accessories was supposed to be a Nazi.  

An innocent onlooker might conclude he was badly lacking in taste, perhaps, or maybe wearing the outfit for a bet, but not that he was supposed to have any particular political affiliation..

Nor, despite the fact the hat seems to have been a particular bone of contention in this incident, do I see a cap or hat as part of the Captain's uniform, either in that illustration or any of the more recent ones Google images provides

From this I can only conclude that his outfit wasn't particularly close to the original picture reference.   

[Conall DeCuir]

History will repeat always as people forget so easily BUT, there is a difference in trying to educate people or to just strutt around while wearing stuff which is really bad history. I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit at some event .. of course without a symbol but still recognisable. I am sure that would not went well, for a reason.

[Dresden]

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

History will repeat always as people forget so easily BUT, there is a difference in trying to educate people or to just strutt around while wearing stuff which is really bad history. I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit at some event .. of course without a symbol but still recognisable. I am sure that would not went well, for a reason.

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OMG!  Who in their right mind sells Ku Klux Klan outfits in SL?

No, I really want to know.

...Dres *was planning on throwing a Post Legalized-Slavery Atrocities party, for which such an outfit would be absolutely perfect*

[swedishfox Ghost]

I happen to have a SS Waffen that I wear while doing military stuff in SL, even had a swastika-esque arm band with a paw print instead, someone flipped their lid in a sandbox one day, swearing up and down that I was being an offense little poop (polite version) and more colorful things, apparently I was AR'ed and someone responded, they looked over my outfit, and left without saying or doing anything.

 

Lesson: if you get offended by an already censored outfit, you have issues, just de-render the person and leave them alone.

[Amie Kaestner]

I would have acted similarly to you OP, but without asking the guy to remove his costume. Though I admit I might not show as much patience or restraint as you did.

He wasn't even dressed as a real nazi. Would she get upset if she saw someone wearing a Che Guevera shirt too?

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Amie Kaestner wrote:

 

He wasn't even dressed as a real nazi. Would she get upset if she saw someone wearing a Che Guevera shirt too?

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It could have been even worse than that.........

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

History will repeat always as people forget so easily

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No, history doesn't always repeat, that's the point.  

 

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

 BUT, there is a difference in trying to educate people or to just strutt around while wearing stuff which is really bad history.

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It doesn't matter if the person is trying to educate or not.  The opportunity for learning was there.  The opportunity for educating was there.   Most of our knowledge doesn't happen in a formal setting, but through everyday life.  The unexpected can be a fabulous eye-opening experience.

 

 

 

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit at some event .. of course without a symbol but still recognisable. I am sure that would not went well, for a reason.

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If the KKK outfit was for a costume party that depicted late 19th to 20th century US, which included bad-guys, I think it's fine. One could also include Mafia Dons, police, various religious figures, and more.  All of which could be in bad taste, and symbolize evil entities.  A KKK outfit is history, and many state RL history museum have full KKK regalia in their inventories.

 

 

 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

 I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit ....

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Could be classic humor... ; )

 

[Conall DeCuir]

Alright, it's SL after all and is not to be taken serious. If thats the opinion of the majority of players, so be it. My personal opinion will not change though and yes, i will always derender and mute people wearing nazi stuff .. even if its only for the fun I am german btw and was educated and do educate that the following generations do not forget and Hooligans don't get the upper hand.

[CheriColette]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

 I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit ....

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Could be classic humor... ; )

 

 

 

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Haha Celestiall, YES....and I thought of this scene in Django, the KKK hood blunder. 

Be warned some language may offend. 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

Alright, it's SL after all and is not to be taken serious. If thats the opinion of the majority of players, so be it. My personal opinion will not change though and yes, i will always derender and mute people wearing nazi stuff .. even if its only for the fun

I am german btw and was educated and do educate that the following generations do not forget and Hooligans don't get the upper hand.

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We're in agreement then Conall.   As, I also take it serious.  I just don't use the same means. 

The links I've posted in this thread to comedy skits, and movies, are from RL culture. The scene from, "Oh Brother Where Art Thou", with the KKK, is a parody with great comedic effect.  It recreates the scene from Wizard of Oz, where the Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Cowardly Lion masqurade as soliders to infiltrate the Wicked Witches's castle.   Brillant!  *laughing* 

 

In real life people can "derender", or take away the power of evil through comedy.   From Charlie Chaplins' "The Great Dictator" making fun of Hitler,  to modern era, Mel Brooks' "History of the World, Part 1", where torture is parodied, acknowledging evil through comedy, is a way for humans to come to grips with it.  This acts as a psychological means for us to scorn evil.   One of my favorites is a scene from the comedy, "The Producers", the scene is called, "Springtime for Hitler".   Absolutely hilarious! 

 

Here's some reading that explains:

 

"One of the first government actions in Nazi Germany was the establishment of a law against treacherous attacks on the state and party that made anti-Nazi humor an act of treason, and there was a reason for this. Research has shown that humor is the most effective means of preventing the indoctrination of brainwashing."

 

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/03/02/the-hidden-power-of-humor/

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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CheriColette wrote:

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

 I wonder what would happen would i appear in a Ku Klux Klan Outfit ....

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Could be classic humor... ; )

 

 

 

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Haha Celestiall, YES....and I thought of this scene in Django, the KKK hood blunder. 

Be warned some language may offend. 

 

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LOL!  yes.   

 

Still chuckling...  

[Derek Torvalar]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

Alright, it's SL after all and is not to be taken serious. If thats the opinion of the majority of players, so be it. My personal opinion will not change though and yes, i will always derender and mute people wearing nazi stuff .. even if its only for the fun

I am german btw and was educated and do educate that the following generations do not forget and Hooligans don't get the upper hand.

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We're in agreement then Conall.   As, I also take it serious.  I just don't use the same means. 

The links I've posted in this thread to comedy skits, and movies, are from RL culture. The scene from, "Oh Brother Where Art Thou", with the KKK, is a parody with great comedic effect.  It recreates the scene from Wizard of Oz, where the Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Cowardly Lion masqurade as soliders to infiltrate the Wicked Witches's castle.   Brillant!  *laughing* 

 

In real life people can "derender", or take away the power of evil through comedy.   From Charlie Chaplins' "The Great Dictator" making fun of Hitler,  to modern era, Mel Brooks' "History of the World, Part 1", where torture is parodied, acknowledging evil through comedy, is a way for humans to come to grips with it.  This acts as a psychological means for us to scorn evil.   One of my favorites is a scene from the comedy, "The Producers", the scene is called, "Springtime for Hitler".   Absolutely hilarious! 

 

Here's some reading that explains:

 

"One of the first government actions in Nazi Germany was the establishment of a law against treacherous attacks on the state and party that made anti-Nazi humor an act of treason, and there was a reason for this. Research has shown that humor is the most effective means of preventing the indoctrination of brainwashing."

 

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/03/02/the-hidden-power-of-humor/

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This also explains why the powers that be here continue to delete and sanction me for my parodies of LL,  their minions and spineless shills.