How would you have handled this situation

[Roche Runo]

Thnk you

you got me exactly right.  I am well aware  my biases are not the same as other bases.   Normally i dont get invovled  but the two people invovled  were both long time supporters of my club.    I  belived they earned the right  to have me mediate.  But when one refused to give an in  while the other at least made some attempt  to placate the other one.   To give the person upset i gave her  won last chance and that was  to ask the vips.  They didnt side with her.  So I left the descion to her

She chose to leave  and never come back

And quite frankly  i dont want people in my club  who are not williing compromise

 

[Roche Runo]

I agree    Though i am a little different   I have only one rule listed.   We expect you act responsibly.    Most people do.

Listting  a bunch of rules  as no bearing  on the good people.    The people who dont  wont listen to the rules anyway.

anyone doing the latter  i eject immediantly  so they know i mean business.   If they come back  and conintue  i ban

Of course i make mistakes  and as soon as it is brought to my attention. 

[Roche Runo]

Yes that would work in a partner situation. 

I was the sole owner 

 
Thank you for commenting

[Roche Runo]

You comment as merit    But i dont belive he was trying to make a joke of it.    and of coure you run your club as you see fit.  I respect that.  But she was reacting to the symbolism of the outfit.   Most of the people who said they were okay with it understood that the guy wasnt supporting natzism.   It was just a costume.    I am gay    the pink triangle was used as symbol fof hate and death for my type of people back then.    Now its a sympol of pride.   a symbol of we survived  and we overrcame. 

I  guess maybe that why's i  have more tolerance for negative  symbology.     And not all nazis were bad    Not ever the soldiers who were follloing orders  who if didnt  would have been sent to the camps.   

And lets not forget american leaders are not innocent at the time.   They destoryed millin of people in japan

Shoujld we also ban amerrican army navy and air uniforms.  Note i am not putting downing the american armed .  I am just pointing out there there uniforms also have some blood on them

As alway just my opionion  and not intending to offendend

Thanks for you comment

 

[Roche Runo]

That never entered my mind.  But you cant live your life in fear of what people might do.   took me years to get to that conclustion.   My fear of people finding  out i am gay  prevented me  from enjoying my life to its fullest.

As my therispist  told  me    Its only pain  it goes away eventually   and if you end up dead  well you wont care  anyway  lol

Thanky you for your comment

[Venus Petrov]

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Roche Runo wrote:

I agree    Though i am a little different   I have only one rule listed.  

We expect you act responsibly.

    Most people do.

Listting  a bunch of rules  as no bearing  on the good people.    The people who dont  wont listen to the rules anyway.

anyone doing the latter  i eject immediantly  so they know i mean business.   If they come back  and conintue  i ban

Of course i make mistakes  and as soon as it is brought to my attention. 

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You don't know how many people don't understand that one.

[Roche Runo]

Clarifaction    the comic book character did.     The guy chose it not wear and wore the red cross symol instead   This proves that he did  have some consideration.    Aslo  the uninform  that hiltler gave his amry to wear  was based  on a urniform of  some other group that was a good group.  Hitler added the hat and the swastika.   

[Roche Runo]

Thank you for posting the  applicable  LL rules.    It's very helpful in stiuations like this   Though i suspect that wouldnt have charnged the girls mind.

[Roche Runo]

Ah  but was that a personal opinion  or was it the actull rule stated somewhere in the EULA  or decided by  the board of directiors ( if there is one)  or  the top person who is in charge of SL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for commenting

[Roche Runo]

oh i agree  totally    I am very big propenent  of vips  take responsiblity  for their own issues.   Club owners  are not there to fight your battles for you.  And i dont accept notecards as proof because notecards can be altered.   Turn arway  mute  or come back another night when the object of the concern.  Any club owner who does otherwise is just asking for drama.

Thank you for your comment

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Christin73]

As a club manager and haven been a GM for one club, you did ythe right thing by asking if anyone else was offended. Why worry about losing one guest out of no telling how many that were not offended by it. The point is at least you asked.

[Roche Runo]

And i totally  respect your decision to do  that .   Oh  and i am canadian.         But i ask you to consider why you are doing it. 

Is it you r fear it   hate it    belived that if it was allowed it will happen again?  Just curious  feel free not to answer my question if it would bother you to do so

[Roche Runo]

I should have used a different term  Even when i typeing  politcal issues i knew it didnt sound right.  Let me try again.  clubs are no place for intense compicated differences of  opionions.  Is to have fun  and if you are not having fun because of anything that bothers you have optiions s that you can use rather than demand your way.   

Canada has strong hate speech and hate crime laws.  but our laws are based on the end result.     You can wear a shirt with a swastika on it.   But if you cause harm to someone based  on the your belief in the what the sybol stands for   you will be proscecuted.  So you can wear  a shirt that says  i hate gays.  But if you harm one and they find that shirt  you will be charged with hate crime.  

 

 

 

 

[Derek Torvalar]

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Roche Runo wrote:

I should have used a different term  Even when i typeing  politcal issues i knew it didnt sound right.  Let me try again.  clubs are no place for intense compicated differences of  opionions.  Is to have fun  and if you are not having fun because of anything that bothers you have optiions s that you can use rather than demand your way.   

Canada has strong hate speech and hate crime laws.  but our laws are based on the end result.     You can wear a shirt with a swastika on it.   But if you cause harm to someone based  on the your belief in the what the sybol stands for   you will be proscecuted.  So you can wear  a shirt that says  i hate gays.  But if you harm one and they find that shirt  you will be charged with hate crime.

  

  

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Simplistic.

[CheriColette]

Thats law is ambiguous but in one way it leaves the option open to free will. You can wear what you like but beware of the consequences. 

 

 

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Roche Runo wrote:

....................

Canada has strong hate speech and hate crime laws.  but our laws are based on the end result.     You can wear a shirt with a swastika on it.   But if you cause harm to someone based  on the your belief in the what the sybol stands for   you will be proscecuted.  So you can wear  a shirt that says  i hate gays.  But if you harm one and they find that shirt  you will be charged with hate crime.  

 

 

 

 

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[Innula Zenovka]

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Roche Runo wrote:

I should have used a different term  Even when i typeing  politcal issues i knew it didnt sound right.  Let me try again.  clubs are no place for intense compicated differences of  opionions.  Is to have fun  and if you are not having fun because of anything that bothers you have optiions s that you can use rather than demand your way.   

Canada has strong hate speech and hate crime laws.  but our laws are based on the end result.     You can wear a shirt with a swastika on it.   But if you cause harm to someone based  on the your belief in the what the sybol stands for   you will be proscecuted.  So you can wear  a shirt that says  i hate gays.  But if you harm one and they find that shirt  you will be charged with hate crime.  

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 If someone turned up at your SL club wearing a shirt with a similar slogan, would you not have asked him or her to change it?  

In general, I think it's a big mistake to confuse a country's laws with a private business' admission policy.     It would obviously be outrageous for a government to punish people who didn't dress "smart casual" but it's perfectly normal for RL clubs to have that as an admission policy.   

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Roche Runo wrote:

in my club owning days i held a comic book character event.  Some one came in wearing a costume of a dc comics villian named Capt Natzi........

 

......  I actually verified that the character was legitimate. 

http://www.comicvine.com/captain-nazi/4005-24925/

I look forward to seeing how other people would handle this situation

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You held a comic book character event, and someone showed up as a vintage villain, and not just any villain, but a perennial one!  That's awesome!

I would have explained to the woman complaining, that since there wasn't anything visually offensive or *against the TOS, and that since I personally love vintage comics and the characters, but more importantly, as it's my club...I make the decision.  If she persisted on trying to manage my place by badgering me, I'd have booted her.  

 

 

*You stated that there was no actual swastika, but a red cross.   Kinda terrible to bastardize the character that way...but eh, keeps the "net nannies at bay.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nazi#/media/File:Master_Comics_21_Cover_1941.jpg

 

Could have been worse, the cap and uniform might have had skulls on it.....  ; )

 

 

 

 

[CheriColette]

Agree with  everything you said and laughed so much at David Mitchell...that was great video, Celestrall  

[CheriColette]

when I think 'skulls'  I think The Phantom 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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CheriColette wrote:

when I think 'skulls'  I think The Phantom 

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Yup.  Another good one : )

[Perrie Juran]

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Roche Runo wrote:

Ah  but was that a personal opinion  or was it the actull rule stated somewhere in the EULA  or decided by  the board of directiors ( if there is one)  or  the top person who is in charge of SL

 

Thank you for commenting

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The Incident Blotter that I linked reflects the actions of LL's Governance Team.  Now whether or not they talked with the Board of Directors about it or who actually made the decision I have no idea. 

The Community Standards do not spell out detailed specifics but I'd tend to think it being banned would be based on the first two principles.

We could have 'fun' with this though.  There is not an outright ban on it in Germany.  For Hindus it is a religious symbol and concessions were made to them regarding it.  They are allowed to use and display the symbol.  

So if I were building a Hindu temple in SL I'd be pointing that out to the Governance team.  

[Sheleaf]

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Roche Runo wrote:

in my club owning days i held a comic book character event.  Some one came in wearing a costume of a dc comics villian named Capt Natzi.  It was, of course a natzi uniform he was wearing but he changeed the swastica to a red cross our of respect  I know the guy  and  he is not a racist by any means and  is a really nice guy.  In fact i really didnt notice untill i got an im from a lady  demanding that i kick him out.   I looked over at what he was wearing  and i will admit i was suprried by it.   But as i  had had not other complaint  i just suggest that she just  turn her view so she couldnt see him.   She insisted she could look any dam way she pleased.   So i suggest she mention her concerns to him    Again the answer is no      So i talk to the guy  and asked him if he would consider changing because it was uppsetting in the first place .    He refused saying it was a legitmate comic boo charachter,  She was overeacting.    He fingally agreed to remove the hat.   But that wasnt good enough for her.  So  asked the crowd  if the costume upset anyone.  And everyone said no it doesnt So i said to the woman  i am sorry but seem to the only one bothered by it.   Personally  i myself thought it was in bad taste  but bad taste is not a reason to kick some one out.    Dont get me wrong  it was horrible what happpend in germany   but  a club is not the place to be bringing up polical issues.    So i suggested  if she was so unhappy  why not  come back another night.  Her answer was i wont ever be back.    I said  that respect your choice but i do hope you changes her mind    I actually verified that the character was legitimate. 

http://www.comicvine.com/captain-nazi/4005-24925/

I look forward to seeing how other people would handle this situation

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how can ANYONE approve ANY people to wears nazi uniforms ? dont you really know what the nazis did to the jews ?

[Conall DeCuir]

Well, it was a comic figure event and comic figures were invited, captain natzi is one of them as it seems. It leaves still a bad taste for me to see anyone representing a nazi and i would have asked him to either change completly or to leave. For me, wearing something nazi like its either bad taste, total ignorance or the wish to rile up.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Sheleaf wrote:

 dont you really know what the nazis did to the jews ?

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Nazi's are a part of history.  Hiding anything Nazi related is how people will not know the answer to your question.

 

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Conall DeCuir wrote:

For me, wearing something nazi like its either bad taste, total ignorance or the wish to rile up.

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Germany declared war on the US in December 1941, right after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. 

"Nazi first appeared in Master Comics #21 (December 1941), in opposition to both Captain Marvel and Bulletman"

Captain Nazi is an historic bad-guy character.   What an excellent opportunity for people learn about that time period.