The Beginning of The End or A New Second Life?

[Vandris]

 

A new resident’s perspective of the current Second Life…(my opinion and current experience)

 

I just recently started playing SL for about a month now. The world feels desolate after a while. Most people I meet are usually alone by themselves standing around or if they're lucky they're with a partner (so you feel even more alone). I've met plenty of decent people and have plenty on my friends list but few people seem to initiate a conversation without you speaking first.

 

Most people I’ve come across just seem to be in SL to hang on to what's left of the good times they used to have as most peoples conversations are about what SL used to be like. I realized as a new player it's harder to find folks to be close companions with or goof around and explore with because they've already been there and done that. Most people who have been at SL for a while already have their routine. They talk to who they already know, do what they're used to doing, then they rinse wash and repeat. So socializing with them is like a disruption to their routine. They entertain you for a while but then go back to their normal routine which is their safe/comfort zone for them. So in return you spend a lot of your time being just as lonely if not bored in SL.

 

People like to think of SL as more than a game but really it's the same as any other MMO. People just hang around either doing nothing or looking for something to do but at the same time they like to stick with who they already know so they're usually left with more of the same (honestly, how many new friends have you added to your list only to just talk to the old friends you already have?).

 

Another thing I noticed is that some people that play SL really aren't so social as in they don't really know how to hold a conversation so talking to them feels like a Q and A, interrogation, or a job interview. I’ve always wondered why people who aren’t social and don’t like to be social or care to be social play socially oriented games. Online games, virtual worlds, social media or whatever you do to digitally socialize all require social interaction to thrive. When you have thousands of people just logging in to stay to themselves or remain in their limited/dying circle of friends it makes it harder for the social aspect of that world to survive. It does feel as though people log on just to sit around and not be bothered (especially if you read some of these condescending profiles people make you sense just that).

 

What I find in SL are many empty zones (or as you call them here Sims) and clusters of people in certain areas. These usually being old starting zones, dance clubs, Sandboxes (obviously) where as you can guess people just sit around or dance around but still not really socializing unless it’s with someone inside their circle they might be with (I leave out SL’s highly popular Adult Sims because I avoid those places).

 

As I traversed through the world I felt more like an archaeologist digging up the past of a world that was once thriving. Many interesting artifacts and architectural structures left behind by the inhabitants of the old world. I’ve spent much of my time looking at these places (alone obviously) imagining what these areas must have been like when they were full of life. Finding at least one other person in one of these areas was like a ripple in a pond that sent me seeking its source only to find out it was a bot. The last remaining monument in that Sim of what the people of that time had once looked like.

 

There’s a sad emptiness that covers SL. In a funny way it reminds me of an old favorite movie of mine “The Never Ending Story” where the fantasy world is slowly disappearing because no one is reading fantasy books to keep it alive. In Second Life Sims are slowly disappearing because no one is logging in to keep them alive and thus the creators abandoned them and they simply vanish as though they were never there to begin with. It’s like “The Nothing” is slowly consuming SL.

 

Surprisingly just substituting the world of “Fantasia” for “Second Life” in this excerpt of the movie seems so fitting…

 

G'mork: I am G'mork. And you, whoever you are, can have the honor of being my last victim.

Atreyu: I will not die easily. I am a warrior.

G'mork: Ha! Warrior. Then fight The Nothing.

Atreyu: But I can't! I can't get beyond the boundaries of Second Life!

G'mork: Second Life has no boundaries.

Atreyu: That's not true. You're lying!

G'mork: Foolish boy. Don't you know anything about Second Life? It's the world of human fantasy. Every part, every creature of it, is a piece of the dreams and hopes of mankind. Therefore, it has no boundaries.

Atreyu: But why is Second Life dying, then?

G'mork: Because people have begun to lose their hopes and forget their dreams. So the Nothing grows stronger.

Atreyu: What is the Nothing?

G'mork: It's the emptiness that's left. It's like a despair, destroying this world. And I have been trying to help it.

Atreyu: But why?

G'mork: Because people who have no hopes are easy to control and whoever has control has the power.

 

 

I assume I can’t really blame what’s left of Second Life on the remaining community. In the world of business success and growth only comes by attracting new customers; where as if you’re only dealing with the same customers, you’re merely just surviving and existing. Second life just seems to be at that point of surviving and existing. I haven’t met many new (as in not someone’s alt) players. Even the starter areas and places like Caledon are filled with veteran players more so than the newer players you’d expect to see there.

 

Even though SL isn’t exactly young there are still people that are newly introduced to it. My first impressions of SL was that it looked very dated and the interface was just as equal but I was lucky enough to meet one of SL’s very dedicated new player mentors that helped me out from the start and showed me what SL could be about if I so wanted it so I stayed to continue my journey instead of logging out after 15 minutes to try something else to fill my free time.

 

I really do have to hand it to the patient players that take their time to help out “noobs”. They do make SL a lot more fun and I’ve met quite a few of them. I would have to say that these types of people are more important to Second Life because they promote growth and security in the game by introducing newer players to it in a way that is more likely to keep them continuing to play and become an active part of the world (Like a force to combat The Nothing).

 

Even still though it’s hard not to notice what Second Life once was when you see how vacant it’s become. When it’s difficult not to make “acquaintances” but actual “friends” to enjoy the game with it leaves you to wonder what the future of Second Life would be like for you. Walking around in the lurking emptiness alone to try and make something out of what’s left of a desolate world or just lounge around in the clustered areas making small chat and subtle conversations.

 

As for groups I’ve joined a few in my areas of interests. Some are flat out dead at this point in Second Life and some are active but once again it just becomes a game of social circles within the group. You feel welcomed but not really welcomed so you end up just being there.

 

In short I’d say that Second Life is interesting but the longevity of it as it is I question. Thank you for reading my novel experience.

 

[Parrish Ashbourne]

I like your The Never Ending Story / Second Life comparison. For me the nothingness is growing because of mesh.  When I first got in to SL in 2007 it seamed like a much larger % of people were building their own world / fantasies , and had income from small shops, but now that we have mesh, very few have the skill to build (good) mesh, and building with mesh takes a lot of time spent out side of SL. 

Form the customers point of view mesh is less modifiable, it might look better but you can't personalize it as much, dreams and fantasies are personal not some thing you buy off the shelf, unless your fantasy is shopping. One thing that I all ways like about SL was seeing how my customers used and modified the things I made, I'm all ways amazed at all the ideas they have that I never thought of, it's like the things I've made are still alive and growing.  All thou I've taken time to learn blender, I just don't like building mesh it just doesn't fit my creative flow.  I like building inworld, interacting with the creative process in 3D environment, Blender is a great tool but it's designed for some one or a group of people that need to be able make a complete 3D animated movie, it's not a good sketch pad, it's not a social/collaborative  inworld building tool, it's not fun to most people. 

For SL to be exciting again it really needs an updated inworld building tools.  Inworld tools will never replace all the things you can do with out of world tools, but the more power you put in the inworld tools in an accessible way, will go a long way to letting more people build their own worlds and customize the things they buy again to fill the nothingness.

[Polenth Yue]

In the time I've been in Second Life, it's always had large areas of no people and a few clusters of people. That's not a surprise, as a lot of the things people build aren't meant as social experiences, but exploration experiences. Each person accounts for more land than would ever be needed for socialisation alone. This was never an issue for me, as I prefer exploring to being social most of the time, but it does present a challenge if you want to talk to people.

Events are likely to be the best source of people. If you want so many people the sims crash, big events like RFL and the birthdays are the thing. They usually have stages for DJ/party type events, as well as exploring the main event areas. And you'll get to see which groups are active. Or for fewer people, look for clubs that run things, or communities that have public events.

If you're into steampunk, the Aether Chrononauts calendar ( http://aetherchrononauts.org/  ) has a bunch of stuff from various steamlands... and there's likely more announced in the inworld groups. Raglan Shire (where the tinies live) also runs a lot of events. It can take time to find where you fit, but I hope you do.

[Buttacwup Float]

Nice post, very interesting perspective and read. The key is really finding a community with shared interest. Find out where they like to be and head there. Still lots of social groups around, but the world is so massive and spreadout that you can no longer just explore and hope to find the right areas.  I love chatting with old friends and new, and meet lots of people that are the same. Once you find the right group SL can be a ton of fun, though it can be so by yourself as well.

As for mesh, I don't see mesh having been a factor. I still can't make things better now than I could before mesh. Mesh for me has made the world look way more awesome and generally perform better than what we had before. 

Vandris: Feel free to give me a shout in world if your ever looking to chat.

[Bree Giffen]

I think LL needs to start filling SL with NPC monsters that slowly destroy second life. Maybe giant spiders that cover unused areas of SL with spiderwebs. I think it would give residents a good indicator of areas that are active and areas that have fallen into decrepitude. Heck, they should put it into the new SL as well. No more wandering into an abandoned area and wondering when the last time someone used it. With spiders, you can barely move from all the webs and the chittering of spiders that lumber towards you with their beady little glowing eyes.

[Pamela Galli]

My perspective:  I have found Second Life completely fascinating from the first moment (which for me was Nov. 2007). However, I was only interested in socializing much very early on, before I discovered how addicting creating was. It does not matter to me how many deserted sims are out there.

I nevertheless have ended up  spending quite a bit of time chatting with my customers, so I feel like I have a nice balance of socializing and creating. And I have made friends here in the forums.

Bottom line is that Second Life is a lot like RL:  you get out of it what you put into it.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

Bottom line is that Second Life is a lot like RL:  you get out of it what you put into it.

---

Yup, exactly Pam. 

(...and we met on the old, old, old SLX forum!....before XStreet even : ) 

*waves*

[Pamela Galli]

---

Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

Bottom line is that Second Life is a lot like RL:  you get out of it what you put into it.

---

Yup, exactly Pam. 

(...and we met on the old, old, old SLX forum!....before XStreet even : ) 

*waves*

---

Yep we go way back :-D

[Orca Flotta]

I think you're overexposing SL's social agenda. It was founded, and for a long time in the begining populated, by computer geeks, by coders, hackers and modelers, by ppl one would usually describe as antisocial. And still today you see most of us older resis showing not too much interest in social stuff. BTW, when you see any of us oldbies somewhere in an empty sim, just standing around, there's a 99% chance that we are indeed very busy in  multiple IMS, discussing international politics or whatever. In fact we are so busy the conversation has stopped us dead in our tracks.

SL is no 3D facebook, it's not a chatroom, it's not a dating service. And it's not a game! It's a platform, an empty canvas, a sandbox. SL is a, no, it's THE Virtual World! And same is in RL you only get out what you put in. The world isn't supposed to be there for your entertainment, you gotta do that for yourself. If you wanna chit-chat with lots of people, go found a group for that purpose. Come on, it's only 100 L$ and you get a lot of fun out of it.

So in conclusion I have the feeling you're somehow very lonely. So much so, you suffer being alone. Where others enjoy heavenly solitude you only find a depressive loneliness. And now you're trying to blame SL for your personal shortcomings. Go, find something to do, bring your hobby or your interests into SL. Find a group that follows the same interest and soon you'll be too busy for idle musings about the pending end of SL.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

From my perspective, socializing in SL is a lot like RL. I don't appreciate it if total strangers walk up to me and say "Hi!". I meet people within certain settings, with certain shared interests.

Sometimes I have to be social, like when people are on our land. It'd be rude to tell them to mind their own business, so I pretend to be social and friendly.

I have limited free time in my life. Therefore, meeting _new_ people who as likely as not will leave SL within days or weeks is definitely not on my to-do list.

As far as empty land/places... our own sim is usually pretty empty at ~600 (non-group) visitors each month. It's not meant as a social hub, though once in a while people go there to party since it's a public park. The sim is, for me and many of its residents, a way to relax and be creative.

[Perrie Juran]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

I think you're overexposing SL's social agenda. It was founded, and for a long time in the begining populated, by computer geeks, by coders, hackers and modelers, by ppl one would usually describe as antisocial. And still today you see most of us older resis showing not too much interest in social stuff.

---

Oh really now?  That is a very broad paint brush you are using to paint with.  Maybe in your circle of friends acquaintances everyone is antisocial but this really is a media hyped and driven perspective.

 

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Orca Flotta wrote:

BTW, when you see any of us oldbies somewhere in an empty sim, just standing around, there's a 99% chance that we are indeed very busy in  multiple IMS, discussing international politics or whatever. In fact we are so busy the conversation has stopped us dead in our tracks.

---

This can happen to Newbies also.  And one does not have to be in an empty SIM for it to occur.  I've had it happen to me while dancing at busy clubs.  So again painting things with a very broad and prejudicial paint brush.

[seabird7]

My friend calls me on the phone. We chat, we hang there in pauses wanting to communicate but having nothing else to share. I might say, "I bought a giant couch in Second Life". She doesn't have an image for that in her mind.

Last night she came into Second Life for the first time. We talked on the phone for quite a while about some random giant couch.

I am not really social. I am just happy about the couch. Last night the two of us dancing would look like I was at least that cool. 

The assumption that there was an exciting social collective here, that there is some kind of persistant experiance that is dissipating, I assume that is just illusion and wishful thinking. There is a hope that an artifice like this can better improve you. That hope is real to me

[Marigold Devin]

---

Vandris wrote:

 

A new resident’s perspective of the current Second Life…(my opinion and current experience)

I enjoyed very much reading your opinion and experience. 

 

I just recently started playing SL for about a month now. The world feels desolate after a while. Most people I meet are usually alone by themselves standing around or if they're lucky they're with a partner (so you feel even more alone). I've met plenty of decent people and have plenty on my friends list but few people seem to initiate a conversation without you speaking first.

 

My first two weeks in Second Life felt very hard, but I was very lucky, in that it took me longer than a month to get that feeling of desolation you seem to have encountered already, and I thought that feeling came from within me.

I don't feel its so true that most people "just seem to be in SL to hang on to what's left of the good times they used to have"... but for sure, human nature does make people reminisce rather a lot.  And humans do tend to be creatures of habit, a lot reluctant to embrace change, but equally some people crave excitement and new experiences, and can seem quite fickle, as they cram so much into their allotted SL time before having to hop out to RL once again.

 

Most people I’ve come across just seem to be in SL to hang on to what's left of the good times they used to have as most peoples conversations are about what SL used to be like. I realized as a new player it's harder to find folks to be close companions with or goof around and explore with because they've already been there and done that. Most people who have been at SL for a while already have their routine. They talk to who they already know, do what they're used to doing, then they rinse wash and repeat. So socializing with them is like a disruption to their routine. They entertain you for a while but then go back to their normal routine which is their safe/comfort zone for them. So in return you spend a lot of your time being just as lonely if not bored in SL.

It shouldn't be "as a new player ... harder to find folks to be close companions with or goof around and explore with ...", because all the time there are new residents signing up for Second Life.  Its just a matter of being in the right place at the right time to meet those on the same wavelength. 

I've gone through spells of great sociability, being part of a group, going to places, taking part in group activities, and then that has petered off and I've gone off to my solitary corner.  Again, I thought that feeling of others going off to their safe zone and me to mine was just something within me, rather than the world as a whole.

I don't ever feel lonely or bored in SL though, so I think that is something that comes from within you. I really do.

 

People like to think of SL as more than a game but really it's the same as any other MMO. People just hang around either doing nothing or looking for something to do but at the same time they like to stick with who they already know so they're usually left with more of the same (honestly, how many new friends have you added to your list only to just talk to the old friends you already have?).

I can't comment about other MMOs as I have never participated in any of them.  I am not a player of games, apart from a bit of Bejewelled or Bookworm. 

My own friends list has evolved, and some I may never actually speak with again, because they don't log in very often any more, and others are regulars who I more regularly speak with.  Often there are only about seven people online who are on my friends list, usually the oldest friends.  Percentage wise, the newer friends may be those 24-hour residents who try it and don't like it and go back to WoW or somewhere else.

Second Life wasn't sold to me as a social play/socially-orientated game.  It was featured as a "website of the week" in a woman's interest magazine in 2007, and I just thought it might be a way of getting my poorly brother back interested in his computer.  There was talk of building and creating and possibly selling to others, and I felt my brother's creativity might come back if he was introduced to Second Life.  The social aspect wasn't mentioned, and as neither of us were familiar with other MMOs, maybe other people also came into Second Life for similar reasons, and really do enjoy their own company.

Equally, I have met so many people who have been DJs and owned clubs and sims who have come and gone, but time with them was very sociable indeed.

There are some incredibly socially inept folk though - the ones who start a conversation with "hi" and you reply with "hi yourself" and go to look at their profile and find nothing but bot-like tumbleweed.  They are really saying "Hi - ENTERTAIN MEEEEEE because there's nowt on the telly at the moment"!

 

Another thing I noticed is that some people that play SL really aren't so social as in they don't really know how to hold a conversation so talking to them feels like a Q and A, interrogation, or a job interview. I’ve always wondered why people who aren’t social and don’t like to be social or care to be social play socially oriented games. Online games, virtual worlds, social media or whatever you do to digitally socialize all require social interaction to thrive. When you have thousands of people just logging in to stay to themselves or remain in their limited/dying circle of friends it makes it harder for the social aspect of that world to survive. It does feel as though people log on just to sit around and not be bothered (especially if you read some of these condescending profiles people make you sense just that).

I'm not sure they do need social interaction to thrive. Build it and they will come. People still come. Some stay, some don't, but at any one time there can be 50,000 or so people logged into Second Life, and there aren't as many bots as there used to be, and it must be making a bit of profit or Linden Lab would have pulled the plug by now.  No doubt it could do much better, with the right kind of marketing, but I am not arrogant enough to suggest how. I like my SL exactly as it is (but without quite so much of the resource-draining stuff as my computer is getting beyond sticking back together with twigs and chewing gum now).

 

What I find in SL are many empty zones (or as you call them here Sims) and clusters of people in certain areas. These usually being old starting zones, dance clubs, Sandboxes (obviously) where as you can guess people just sit around or dance around but still not really socializing unless it’s with someone inside their circle they might be with (I leave out SL’s highly popular Adult Sims because I avoid those places).

Oh yes, those horrendous "welcome" areas that some people just can't seem to leave, like they are back in their mother's womb or something.  And the reason I never use voice - listening in a few times has been an education in how dullards resort to using phaggot and suchlike far too often. It isn't big and it isn't clever.

Adult sims I have found to be more civilised, but not the more ... specialised ... stuff, for which no amount of eye bleach is ever going to erase the stuff of my nightmares.  Can say no more about that.

 

As I traversed through the world I felt more like an archaeologist digging up the past of a world that was once thriving. Many interesting artifacts and architectural structures left behind by the inhabitants of the old world. I’ve spent much of my time looking at these places (alone obviously) imagining what these areas must have been like when they were full of life. Finding at least one other person in one of these areas was like a ripple in a pond that sent me seeking its source only to find out it was a bot. The last remaining monument in that Sim of what the people of that time had once looked like.

Lovely paragraph.  Yes, you would have been a virtual archaeologist.  There used to be a sign up on one of the older sims. I love it when I find old stuff, left behind by the very first "settlers" in SL.  I don't know if Second Life was ever "full of life" except when there were only a few sims clustered together. I expect that's the busiest it ever felt.

 

 

 

 

There’s a sad emptiness that covers SL. In a funny way it reminds me of an old favorite movie of mine “The Never Ending Story” where the fantasy world is slowly disappearing because no one is reading fantasy books to keep it alive. In Second Life Sims are slowly disappearing because no one is logging in to keep them alive and thus the creators abandoned them and they simply vanish as though they were never there to begin with. It’s like “The Nothing” is slowly consuming SL.

And as some sims disappear, other new ones are created.

http://gridsurvey.com/index.php?r=a

 

 

Surprisingly just substituting the world of “Fantasia” for “Second Life” in this excerpt of the movie seems so fitting…

 

G'mork

: I am G'mork. And you, whoever you are, can have the honor of being my last victim.

Atreyu

: I will not die easily. I am a warrior.

G'mork

: Ha! Warrior. Then fight The Nothing.

Atreyu

: But I can't! I can't get beyond the boundaries of Second Life!

G'mork

: Second Life has no boundaries.

Atreyu

: That's not true. You're lying!

G'mork

: Foolish boy. Don't you know anything about Second Life? It's the world of human fantasy. Every part, every creature of it, is a piece of the dreams and hopes of mankind. Therefore, it has no boundaries.

Atreyu

: But why is Second Life dying, then?

G'mork

: Because people have begun to lose their hopes and forget their dreams. So the Nothing grows stronger.

Atreyu

: What

is

the Nothing?

G'mork

: It's the emptiness that's left. It's like a despair, destroying this world. And I have been trying to help it.

Atreyu

: But

why

?

G'mork

: Because people who have no hopes are easy to control and whoever has control has the power.

 

 

I assume I can’t really blame what’s left of Second Life on the remaining community. In the world of business success and growth only comes by attracting new customers; where as if you’re only dealing with the same customers, you’re merely just surviving and existing. Second life just seems to be at that point of surviving and existing. I haven’t met many new (as in not someone’s alt) players. Even the starter areas and places like Caledon are filled with veteran players more so than the newer players you’d expect to see there.

I arrived in Second Life in November 2007.  The sky has been falling in the whole time

 

Even though SL isn’t exactly young there are still people that are newly introduced to it. My first impressions of SL was that it looked very dated and the interface was just as equal but I was lucky enough to meet one of SL’s very dedicated new player mentors that helped me out from the start and showed me what SL could be about if I so wanted it so I stayed to continue my journey instead of logging out after 15 minutes to try something else to fill my free time.

Maybe that's why a lot of the residents are 50+ (which initially surprised me as I expected all things computer-linked would only appeal to "the kids".  We like retro.  But believe me, Second Life is unrecognisable to how it was in 2008.  It has, like real life, evolved. And it continues to evolve. The interface, I grant you, could be a lot less clunky.  (However, we have choices - so I personally opt for one of the approved third party viewers, customised to how I like it.)

I am glad you "fill" your free time.  Some people "kill" their free time - I think that is almost criminal.

 

I really do have to hand it to the patient players that take their time to help out “noobs”. They do make SL a lot more fun and I’ve met quite a few of them. I would have to say that these types of people are more important to Second Life because they promote growth and security in the game by introducing newer players to it in a way that is more likely to keep them continuing to play and become an active part of the world (Like a force to combat The Nothing).

I agree. Without my main mentor and some wonderful other people who have taught me so much - and who continue to teach me every single day - I would probably have abandoned Second Life within that first hard-going fortnight. People are the life blood of Second Life, and everyone has a role to play - just like in real life.

 

Even still though it’s hard not to notice what Second Life once was when you see how vacant it’s become. When it’s difficult not to make “acquaintances” but actual “friends” to enjoy the game with it leaves you to wonder what the future of Second Life would be like for you. Walking around in the lurking emptiness alone to try and make something out of what’s left of a desolate world or just lounge around in the clustered areas making small chat and subtle conversations.

I don't think it has become vacant. Really I don't. Again, I think this is something within each individual. Its a matter of seeking out where you are meant to be, or creating that place yourself/ourselves.

 

 

As for groups I’ve joined a few in my areas of interests. Some are flat out dead at this point in Second Life and some are active but once again it just becomes a game of social circles within the group. You feel welcomed but not really welcomed so you end up just being there.

Ohhhh I am sorry your experience of groups has been so negative. This may improve over time. Some of the ones I am joined to are very sociable, some are competitive, some are very nerdish and geeky, some are helpful, some are silent.

 

In short I’d say that Second Life is interesting but the longevity of it as it is I question. Thank you for reading my novel experience.

I thoroughtly enjoyed reading your "novella" experience. It made me think about my own Second Life a little more deeply.  Roll on winter when I can spend less time working in the garden and more time cuddled up by a virtual fire drinking virtual hot chocolate or bombing around the snow sims on a jet ski - hehe

And good luck and best wishes for your future in Second Life.

(Has anyone mentioned Hippie's breakfast get togethers on Sundays yet?  Is Forum Cartel still running?  Now there was a place for interesting conversations and an eclectic mix of folk. )

 

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[Madelaine McMasters]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

(Has anyone mentioned Hippie's breakfast get togethers on Sundays yet?  Is Forum Cartel still running?  Now there was a place for interesting conversations and an eclectic mix of folk. )

---

The Forum Cartel is still around, Mari.

Vandris, look up Hippie Bowman in-world. You'll find The Breakfast Club and The Forum Cartel groups in his profile. Join both/either and you'll find yourself amongst interesting people.

 

[Orca Flotta]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Orca Flotta wrote:

I think you're overexposing SL's social agenda. It was founded, and for a long time in the begining populated, by computer geeks, by coders, hackers and modelers, by ppl one would usually describe as antisocial. And still today you see most of us older resis showing not too much interest in social stuff.

---

Oh really now?  That is a very broad paint brush you are using to paint with.  Maybe in your circle of

friends

acquaintances everyone is antisocial but this really is a media hyped and driven perspective.

 

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Orca Flotta wrote:

BTW, when you see any of us oldbies somewhere in an empty sim, just standing around, there's a 99% chance that we are indeed very busy in  multiple IMS, discussing international politics or whatever. In fact we are so busy the conversation has stopped us dead in our tracks.

---

This can happen to Newbies also.  And one does not have to be in an empty SIM for it to occur.  I've had it happen to me while dancing at busy clubs.  So again painting things with a very broad and prejudicial paint brush.

---

@ Marsman: my English skills are rather rudimentary as well as the pretty one-sided observations of the OP, so of course I painted my answer in broad strokes and primary colours. They are correct in our cartoon world, dontcha think? Of course I rarely get stopped dead in my tracks in empty sims, not necessarily. But if it would happen I wouldn't even notice. And sorry, my time is much to valuable to waste it dancing in busy clubs. Anyway, I'm known to be like totally quiet and incommunicado at parties as well, since I'm busy in IM or just surfing the interwebz and totally forget about little Orca in world.

Anyhoo, we all kow that the grid looks very desolate and many regions are like always empty. But who cares? Most of us have something to do in SL, so we won't even notice. If I don't have any action planned for Orca, I just log her tight ass off. Hanging out? Chatting up strangers? Without me! I fail to see the reason behind such stupidity.

[irihapeti]

to me SL is a lot like a club or pub in RL. And like a bus stop or train station or airport. Except that can get off the SL bus when is still moving if have to (:

if you a outgoing person with a personality who takes the initiative in these places then friends/acquaintances come easy. If you a bit shy then friends are harder. Same as RL goes SL goes. Is what I find anyways

also I find that if dont have a deep shared SL interest then the chat between people/friends ends up going toward RL things. Not just personal details about each other but also online/offline interests outside of SL

when a person is uncomfortable with chatting about this then they pretty much going to end up alone anywheres. SL, RL, pub, club, bus stop or even in the middle of a park playground overflowing with people

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

irihapeti wrote:

to me SL is a lot like a club or pub in RL. And like a bus stop or train station or airport. Except that can get off the SL bus when is still moving if have to (:

if you a outgoing person with a personality who takes the initiative in these places then friends/acquaintances come easy. If you a bit shy then friends are harder. Same as RL goes SL goes. Is what I find anyways

also I find that if dont have a deep shared SL interest then the chat between people/friends ends up going toward RL things. Not just personal details about each other but also online/offline interests outside of SL

when a person is uncomfortable with chatting about this then they pretty much going to end up alone anywheres. SL, RL, pub, club, bus stop or even in the middle of a park playground overflowing with people

---

Yep, nothing in Vandris account of his experience in SL sounds much different than my experiences in RL. Circles of friends come and go, favorite establishments too. The bowling alley where I met my friends as a teenager fell into disuse and has been reclaimed by the prairie. RL doesn't move as fast as SL, so it takes longer for my Landmark and Friends lists to fill with dead ends, but that still happens.

And it really is hard for me to limit my in-world discussion to in-world things. I came to SL as a fully formed person. I'm not going to leave that at the door and start over. That said, while I'm going to discuss astronomy if I have the opportunity, I'm also going to discuss incinerating friends in my fireplace. SL does afford new hobbies I could only dream of in RL.

As for getting off buses while they're still moving, why would you ever do otherwise here?

;-).

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

As of 8/3/2014 there were 77,162 sims on the grid.  That's a lot of sims and there is no way that there would be a substantial number of people on all of them.  This is why so many places seem empty.  A lot of these sims are private sims too.  With most sims, public or private, there are times when they are occupied or even busy and other times they aren't because they cater to certain groups in a particular time zone, which may not be a time when you are even logged on. 

I've been in SL since 2006  The world back then didn't seem any more densely populated than it does now. Even 'back in the day' when the world was much smaller, there weren't people everywhere.  Yes, some venues were busy all the time but that's because there were far fewer of them than there are now.  There were only a few major clubs, for instance, so everyone who went to a club went to those few.  Today there are tons of clubs that cater to every taste and so the population is spread between them so they each have smaller crowds.

As far as socially, many people come into SL expecting that they will quickly make a lot of real friends.  I am not talking about a long list of people you friended, but people that you hang out with and talk to a lot.  It is a false expectation.  Have you ever moved in RL as an adult to a city where you knew no one?  I'm not talking about college, where your thrown in with a group of freshman all eager to make friends.  It takes a while to find a circle of friends.  Making friends in SL is like RL.  You've only been in SL a month and how many hours a week do you log in?

People in SL that have been here a while already have established themselves socially and/or are involved in other things.  As others have pointed out, not all of them are interested in carrying on lively conversations with random people they don't know.  You could go to places that cater to newer people who, like you, will be eager to talk and make friends. 

Lastly ever since I came to SL people have predicted SL is won't be around long.  They were wrong.  It doesn't appeal to everyone for a variety of reasons, but there is a core group of people that it does appeal to and they continue to enjoy it.   I can honestly say I have never had one day that I was bored and I have friends I've known since my first few months in SL that I still am friends with.  I meet new people constantly and see or learn something new every day.  I love to create and socialize in SL.  You have been here such a short time that you haven't had much opportunity to know if you are one of them. I hope you stick around long enough to find out.

[LillyBeth Filth]

2004 - Very much as the OP described only people DID talk to each other as we were all new on this strange and new land. It was not unusual to say " Hi, where you from? How long have you been in SL?" etc etc 

I remember the days (2006) of going on shopping trips (In world) and you could not move for LAG due to the amount of avatars all shopping in some of the popular hair/clothing/skin/furniture/house stores.

Some times you literally couldn't get in that sim/store because it was at maximum capacity so you had to keep clicking the TP button in hopes you would catch a wave as someone TP out.

People ran quizzes and contests such as "primtionary" which was a game were a player is given a word and he/she has to build something in prims to describe that word and people are sat around guessing... great fun! 

I feel the move to the marketplace as well as the ban on bingo and other "gambling games" has sucked the need to be in world right out of people.

I imagine there are people all sectioned off in their private house/land and for the most part alone. 

And of course the night clubs. Is that all there is in SL now? clubs? 

I do miss the old days. But just as in RL old people harp on about "How things were better years ago" This comes from the fact they were younger (SL newer) and everything was an adventure and exciting.

I don't know how a 2014 noobies experience compares to someone who was new when SL was smaller but yet busier... 

 

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

irihapeti wrote:

to me SL is a lot like a club or pub in RL. And like a bus stop or train station or airport. Except that can get off the SL bus when is still moving if have to (:

if you a outgoing person with a personality who takes the initiative in these places then friends/acquaintances come easy. If you a bit shy then friends are harder. Same as RL goes SL goes. Is what I find anyways

also I find that if dont have a deep shared SL interest then the chat between people/friends ends up going toward RL things. Not just personal details about each other but also online/offline interests outside of SL

when a person is uncomfortable with chatting about this then they pretty much going to end up alone anywheres. SL, RL, pub, club, bus stop or even in the middle of a park playground overflowing with people

---

Yep, nothing in Vandris account of his experience in SL sounds much different than my experiences in RL. Circles of friends come and go, favorite establishments too. The bowling alley where I met my friends as a teenager fell into disuse and has been reclaimed by the prairie. RL doesn't move as fast as SL, so it takes longer for my Landmark and Friends lists to fill with dead ends, but that still happens.

And it really is hard for me to limit my in-world discussion to in-world things. I came to SL as a fully formed person. I'm not going to leave that at the door and start over. That said, while I'm going to discuss astronomy if I have the opportunity, I'm also going to discuss incinerating friends in my fireplace. SL does afford new hobbies I could only dream of in RL.

As for getting off buses while they're still moving, why would you ever do otherwise here?

;-).

 

---

 

ETA: Amethyst's post reminded me that I'd neglected the growth side of my time in SL. Yes, half my landmarks are dead ends and I don't see many of the friends I made long ago. But, after one year here my friends list had less than ten people on it. Now it's over one hundred. I still chat with only a handful on a regular basis, but I know many more. The SL population is higher now than when I started and there's just as much or more to do. And while all of this was happening, or not happening, Facebook and countless other social networking platforms took entertainment hours from everybody.

Similarly, in RL there are countless new stores in or near my town, and my circle of acquaintances now spans the world, not just my little bit of Wisconsin.

Seasons change and so did I. You need not wonder why.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

As of 8/3/2014 there were 77,162 sims on the grid.

<snip>

 

---

I think you may be misreading that number in Grid Survey.  That is the total number of SIMs that have ever existed in SL.  SIMs do come and go.  But there have never been that many concurrently.

The actual current number is in the chart above that number.

 

Ownership	Total	General	Moderate	Adult	Offline	Total Area (km²)
Total	25896	3422	17721	4747	6	1697.12
Linden Owned	6983	1628	5009	346	0	457.64
Private Estates	18913	1794	12712	4401	6	1239.48

 

http://gridsurvey.com/

[Vandris]

I thank everyone for reading my post and replying. I wasn't really expecting so many replies, not to mention the kind people that sent me game messages (although I haven't logged into SL in a while). I want to take my time to read and digest the comments. I just wanted to quickly  thank you all for the replies.

[Michaelatv Destiny]

Like many, I arrived in 2007 with the promise of making Real money, and I did for a while, dancing at an erotic sky box club, earning my first 100L$, before earning enough to affird a dance hud, thus tips started to increase, and with it my wardrobe increased, and earning 1000L$ a night was quite normal most weeks.

 

However I moved on to aviation, and castles, tried my hand at setting up my furst hippo rent box, that in 2008 was impossible for me as a newbie to understand. Eventually, got into urban combat, where i learned about how land ownership renting was about.  Worked hard right up to 2011, making themed sims. but costs kept going up, clubs i used to manage,  folded in there 10's each week , because they couldnt cover there tier costs any longer, Thats when SL died, when LL hiked up land prices, the place was never the same again, believe me, I used to be in several combat urban sims, one as landowner , played in some, they were busy, no time to hang around, then LL  made another daft mistake, they merged the teen grid with the adult grid....result, urban combat sims admins and moderators, were faced with teens ruining sims with grief anti social behavior , and most did not keep to the rules in place.  hence out of 20 or so urban combat sims, there is about 3-4 now, and even the huge NOR that used to boast up to 10 sims, is now a 5 sim ghost town devoid of EU people in those time zones.  So, really LL has there self to blame, making ill judged changes, i for one have 4000$ of content, that was when I was working back in 2007-11. Now Im retired, and wife is, our income is fixed, and disposable income, is very limited.  I would never be able to build or buy again the 30,000 items I own in my inventory, most are irreplaceable, some cost a lot of money, hundreds of top end textures and sound files i have made over the years may all be lost. With the economy of the West under a lof of strain, with wars, fuel prices, food, and energy costs, its makes it more likely that A new second life, will be very underused, because the people of 50-65 of my age group usually has the most disposable income to use here, but once one retires, especially on a fixed state pension, Im more likely to furnish my new home (stronghold ) in Star Wars TOR, as they now offer players there own homes within the world you play in. Ok its not created by you, but for £8.99 a month sub, and maybe £5-10 to buy a 10 room large skyhouse, with no rent, no land fees, these other MMORGS are already going to be in a position in 2 years to almost make the SL2 obsolete even before its released.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

Like many, I arrived in 2007 with the promise of making Real money, and I did for a while, dancing at an erotic sky box club, earning my first 100L$, before earning enough to affird a dance hud, thus tips started to increase, and with it my wardrobe increased, and earning 1000L$ a night was quite normal most weeks.

 

However I moved on to aviation, and castles, tried my hand at setting up my furst hippo rent box, that in 2008 was impossible for me as a newbie to understand. Eventually, got into urban combat, where i learned about how land ownership renting was about. 

Worked hard right up to 2011, making themed sims. but costs kept going up, clubs i used to manage,  folded in there 10's each week , because they couldnt cover there tier costs any longer, Thats when SL died, when LL hiked up land prices,

the place was never the same again, believe me, I used to be in several combat urban sims, one as landowner , played in some, they were busy, no time to hang around, then LL  made another daft mistake, they merged the teen grid with the adult grid....result, urban combat sims admins and moderators, were faced with teens ruining sims with grief anti social behavior , and most did not keep to the rules in place.  hence out of 20 or so urban combat sims, there is about 3-4 now, and even the huge NOR that used to boast up to 10 sims, is now a 5 sim ghost town devoid of EU people in those time zones.  So, really LL has there self to blame, making ill judged changes, i for one have 4000$ of content, that was when I was working back in 2007-11. Now Im retired, and wife is, our income is fixed, and disposable income, is very limited.  I would never be able to build or buy again the 30,000 items I own in my inventory, most are irreplaceable, some cost a lot of money, hundreds of top end textures and sound files i have made over the years may all be lost. With the economy of the West under a lof of strain, with wars, fuel prices, food, and energy costs, its makes it more likely that A new second life, will be very underused, because the people of 50-65 of my age group usually has the most disposable income to use here, but once one retires, especially on a fixed state pension, Im more likely to furnish my new home (stronghold ) in Star Wars TOR, as they now offer players there own homes within the world you play in. Ok its not created by you, but for £8.99 a month sub, and maybe £5-10 to buy a 10 room large skyhouse, with no rent, no land fees, these other MMORGS are already going to be in a position in 2 years to almost make the SL2 obsolete even before its released.

---

LL hiked up the land prices in 2011? I don't recall that. In fact I'm certain that they didn't. Mainland hasn't gone up and neither has private full sims. I wonder if you're mistaking the Homestead sims fiasco for a land price hike.

The Homestead fiasco didn't affect many people financially, and SL didn't die, although it may have done for you.

[Parhelion Palou]

I don't know about mainland, but private region prices went from $195 to $295 a month at some point. I don't remember the year, but it wasn't as late as 2011. Some regions were grandfathered in & remained at $195, though that may have ended by now.