Problems with Linden Lab's plans to attract new users.

[Ceka Cianci]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And if I had been accosted by a recruiting serjeant yelling at me when I first tried SL, I'd have left in seconds and not come back. And that, I'm pretty sure, is true of most of my friends.

I think the structure of the idea is good, if they had something like a portal room when you first landed at birth.

Something with a variety of different experiences in each section that at the end of each course brought you back to the main start area to try another..

Each giving a different perspective of what is possible in second life along with teaching each new user, important parts of the viewer and the different tools we have, plus helpful and handy tips.

Right now the new user experience from the last time I did it, which was around a month or so ago.

I would compare it to, Buying some really complicated cool thing with all these keys all over it that you can press and knobs that you can turn and things you can slide.. But comes with a manual that folds out into one page and is written in 10 different languages that really doesn't have much information on it other than how to turn it on and maybe charge the battery.

The things they are taught in the start area are pretty much what most people walking into any online game with a keyboard, already have on speed dial in their head.

Use these keys to jump, use this to fly, use this to walk forward, here is how you chat with someone else. If we were to use the term,  Watered down experience, the start area would be like the earth the size of Saturn during the great flood..hehehe

They've done a lot of investing on the Back End/End Game.. But the start zone is still like graduating from preschool and getting thrown out into adulthood in like 10 to 20 minutes at most..

If they really want  new user retention, they really need to make the front door more interesting and exciting and inspiring and educating, to where people can get out in the world on a much much better foundation..

With something like A.I. npc's and a portal room with a variety of different portals to different experiences that loops them back to the main room to go into another, that is teaching them things they are actively using in the different experiences..

Just a couple of examples.

One portal could be, Let's play with the building tools and have something like an A.I. Torley  linden showing us the basics of working with the build tools and creating things from a list of options of things to create. all while maybe tossing in some easy to remember Torley tips that he was so good at giving us..

Another portal of building your avatar and all the things you can do with your hud and Bom and alpha layers and cuts and shaping and heads and bodies.

The another is maybe going to a club and using a dance hud  and cycling through some awesome dances, seeing different styles of clothing on other avatars and showing what is possible..

 

Just different things that can excite and educate and inspire..

I know when I first came to SL, it was the start area that scared me off, It reminded me of the movie the island where they were all walking around listening to some voice in the air.. It was my friends that talked me back into it 3 days later and took me to the main land right away.

The first place we went to was a place that I could set my avatar up and they showed me how to do that.Then we went to a club and they showed me how to dance on the dance floor, which they could hardly get me out of because i loved it so much.

Then later that day, I became a premium member. Because my experiences went from OMG what hell is this? To OMG take my money!!\o/

hehehe

LL is the ones that need to be getting people excited about Second life before we do, Because LL are the ones that have hands on touch to their first impressions before we do..

First impressions mean almost everything. After all these years there has been little invested on the front end and most investment on after the start area/End game.

Things are much more complicated nowadays to get started than they were when we first started..

The thing is, with new people that I meet and help.. I see every single time how excited they become as they learn something new. Each new thing too..

Even I get excited still after all these years, when I find a feature that I didn't know was there after all this time.

I can't help but think how much more excited and more would stay if they felt that same thing at the front door.

There is soo much they can do on the front end that would improve new user retention right out of the gate.

Really, there is soo much that they NEED to do.

ETA: I don't know if a lot of this has already been said.. I kind of came in on the tail end of this thread..

I'm just kind of shooting from my thoughts and the ideas that popped into my head from @animats idea. I thought it was a very interesting structure.

 

Edited July 24 by Ceka Cianci

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And if I had been accosted by a recruiting serjeant yelling at me when I first tried SL, I'd have left in seconds and not come back. And that, I'm pretty sure, is true of most of my friends.

I think the structure of the idea is good, if they had something like a portal room when you first landed at birth.

Something with a variety of different experiences in each section that at the end of each course brought you back to the main start area to try another..

Hopefully, you'd get a CHOICE on which portals to try.

I would not like to try being recruited to fight in horrific military battles, surrounded by death, chaos, and the "fog of war". Only to "die" in Second Life, re-spawn back at the Portals, etc.

Not my cuppa.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hopefully, you'd get a CHOICE on which portals to try.

I would not like to try being recruited to fight in horrific military battles, surrounded by death, chaos, and the "fog of war". Only to "die" in Second Life, re-spawn back at the Portals, etc.

Not my cuppa.

 

I just like the structure of the idea mainly.. I think it's a good, Food for Thought idea, for different experiences that new users could choose from once they were born, to help them before they step through the main gate out into the world..

Right now the start area feels like the education plan of, No Child Left Behind, rather than to actually educate properly.

Edited July 24 by Ceka Cianci

[WeFlossDaily]

Martian air-cat tacos. Lmao. =]

How about just one large continent were we can shoot at each other?

It doesn't have to be great. People need a better way to blow off steam in SL.

Wait! I know! Zombies ! ! !

LL could unleash hoards of kill-able zombies across the grid that can kill us also.

Land/parcel/whatever owners would be able to set spawn/re-spawn limits on the zombies.

It would encourage ppl to hold land and rent to have shelter from zombies. Cha-ching for LL.

Then there is no PVP problem. And everybody gets to shoot at stuff.

They could even make them look like Mark Zuckerberg, Papa Elon, and other villains of big tech

Zombies could cut down on AFK ppl standing around doing nothing and eat bots too.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think this is very much true. The Destination Guide helps . . . a bit. Events is a mess.

 

No it objectively doesn't.

Go and check destination guide locations, 99% of them are empty.

Events is so neglected as to be worthless.

 

[Midnoot]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No it objectively doesn't.

Go and check destination guide locations, 99% of them are empty.

Events is so neglected as to be worthless.

 

Always the same bot traffic sims on top

[Rufferta Mainlander]

It is not only 'attract new users' but 'attract new users who will stay and spend money'.

I first came to Second Life out of curiosity. If I have to be Bartled I guess I would be categorized as "Explorer", although I also like to build, landscape, decorate, socialize, and try on different costumes and personas. Part of why I pay for Premium is because I want to support the world.

Problem is, Linden Lab probably doesn't make much of a profit on explorers, in fact, I sometimes think they are trying to discourage explorers by failing to provide more navigable waterways, airways, and roadways. It doesn't cost a lot to be an explorer, and I imagine it is costly for Linden Lab  to have to turn the lights on every time someone who is just exploring enters a Region.

On the other hand, residents who pay Premium to have a home or who buy land bring in tier- and Premium-payments. Residents who are interested in improving their avatar's appearance contribute a lot to the economy. Artists and content creators also help the income stream.

I like the ideas (suggested in previous posts in this thread) of having expanded learning experiences for newcomers (and even us oldbies). An example: A doorway marked "How to Build" could lead newcomers to places like Builders Brewery or Happy Hippo.

My son tells me that there are other 'virtual games' that provide 'home' spaces to players, so SL is not unique in this; however, the fact that it is a world where you do not have to be part of a larger 'game' to enjoy it is a plus.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24 by Rufferta
slow thinking

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 hour ago, WeFlossDaily said:

LL could unleash hoards of kill-able zombies across the grid that can kill us also.

I would possibly vote for this, if we can have "tiny zombie terror tot" versions for all Adult regions.

1 hour ago, WeFlossDaily said:

What could possibly go wrong?

It's a pretty long list, but that's never stopped LL before.  Seems like a great idea to me!

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

9 minutes ago, Rufferta said:

Problem is, Linden Lab probably doesn't make much of a profit on explorers, in fact, I sometimes think they are trying to discourage explorers by failing to provide more navigable waterways, airways, and roadways. It doesn't cost a lot to be an explorer, and I imagine it is costly for Lindlen Lab  to have to turn the lights on every time someone who is just exploring enters a Region.

I suspect LL would take any new users at this point.  While I'm sure those with deep pockets would look better on their balance sheet any increase in new sign ups that find a reason to stick around would be a sign that they're on the right track.

[BriannaLovey]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I suspect LL would take any new users at this point.  While I'm sure those with deep pockets would look better on their balance sheet any increase in new sign ups that find a reason to stick around would be a sign that they're on the right track.

Indeed. The network effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect) is extremely valuable, and right now LL is at risk of losing it.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 7/14/2024 at 12:04 PM, Persephone Emerald said:

What else do you think LL needs to do to attract and retain new users? 

Patch Linden announced that there will be a new system to funnel newbies to sex clubs and bdsm sims so I think LL has this covered!

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

8 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Patch Linden announced that there will be a new system to funnel newbies to sex clubs and bdsm sims so I think LL has this covered!

Great!  Now if they also let folks use RLV to collar them and fix their outfits it would be a lot easier to take them shopping and give them makeovers!   

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Patch Linden announced that there will be a new system to funnel newbies to sex clubs and bdsm sims so I think LL has this covered!

Is that what "Spicy" means?!?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Great!  Now if they also let folks use RLV to collar them and fix their outfits it would be a lot easier to take them shopping and give them makeovers!   

In RL, I thought that was "the Gay's" job..(being "the Gay" myself, I can joke about it).

[diamond Marchant]

47 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

Indeed. The network effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect) is extremely valuable, and right now LL is at risk of losing it.

I would think that if the "network effect" is significant to the success or failure of Second Life, then it would have failed long ago. There might be an indirect effect with respect to creators who would prefer the pool of potential customers to be as large as possible.

Rather, Second Life appears to be a  niche business... a small segment  within a larger market (video games) with a loyal user base that is not growing. We survive (so far) only because the current owner/investors consider the current ROI to be acceptable.

This idea is supported by usage data and by my own experience. I have been here for 15 years and with one exception, have never encountered anyone who has ever played Second Life. The exception was that I attended an in person user conference in San Francisco 15 years ago. When I mention Second Life  in small talk in social situation, I get crickets or slight curiosity. People have told me that I am weird. Millenials have told me that their first life is challenging enough.

My point is that because SL is a niche, it is an extremely difficult marketing challenge, particularly in figuring out the next "right" thing to do.

Edited July 24 by diamond Marchant
usual typos

[WeFlossDaily]

51 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Patch Linden announced that there will be a new system to funnel newbies to sex clubs and bdsm sims so I think LL has this covered!

There are sex clubs that cater to noobs? Asking for a friend.

 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

41 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In RL, I thought that was "the Gay's" job..(being "the Gay" myself, I can joke about it).

Well who in SL doesn't love an excuse to go shopping?  It's practically an essential life skill!

Come to think of it, if we're talking about introductory educational experiences for new users, something that teaches them to shop would probably be very helpful.

I'd even be willing to teach some short courses myself, I'd be more than happy to build a new shop to host them in and fill it with random things for new users to buy so they can practice spending money!  

[Janet Voxel]

Couple things I want to point out: The oldest millennials are over 40 and the youngest knocking on 30. We exist in SL and always have.

I think we should swap Millennial with Gen-Z at this point. Even then, they exist in Secondlife and have for sometime. The imvu to SL pipeline is very real and it’s still turned on.

The problem is we all live in our own little bubbles within SL and tend to miss out on other little bubbles because we don’t know they exist or we tend to ignore them all together or worse still marginalize them.
 

However, you’re not going to find them at Frank’s Jazz club (I’m saying any dance club) or any other location that’s on the destination guide.
They don’t participate in group chats, because they use discord. They don’t use Flickr, they use Instagram, Twitter, tik tok and YouTube. If you don’t, you won’t see them. They do pop-up events(I don’t even mean shopping events, they have those too)and have pop up hang outs and they’re packed! They operate in Secondlife very differently and I think there’s a disconnect there between older users and them. I’ve seen a few of these with my own eyes in the past couple months. 

The other thing I want to point out is Secondlife is very much a revolving door. People pop up, hang around for a little while, disappear for 6 months to a year, reemerge and repeat that cycle. 
 

I run into that so much. I think we all do. That person that is on your list, you don’t even know why, but there they are. One day you get an IM from them like, “Hey…” you talk for a little while and they always start with “I’ve been away” I think that happens much more than we care to admit. But this isn’t really about them, I’m just saying sometimes the old users are new users. They don’t spend enough time on here to be regular users, yet their birthdate is 5 10 years old. They’re basically newbies.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

They don’t participate in group chats, because they use discord. They don’t use Flickr, they use Instagram, Twitter, tik tok and YouTube. If you don’t, you won’t see them. They do pop-up events(I don’t even mean shopping events, they have those too)and have pop up hang outs and they’re packed! They operate in Secondlife very differently and I think there’s a disconnect there between older users and them. I’ve seen a few of these with my own eyes in the past couple months.

Really interesting and insightful point.

So, how does one find out what such people are looking for from the platform?

[CaerolleClaudel]

8 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

yes .. those days are over, but what was it in 2005 to 2008 that people decided it was worth the trouble to learn, what was in thát time also a thing, different, but still quite a curve.
It took me really more than 2 yrs to discover there was a adult side(!) and a year and a half to find clubs, before that i just been mainly on Whitefish at my little 512 parcel.... building bad looking prim castle's and owned a couple of jeans and one normal crappy chair. Loved the fog in those hills ! The weather is also a gone station.
BUT ... i was happy with that little world.

I find the difference in experience very different. I started in 2007 and within a couple days, perhaps a week at the most, I found a a club that was immediately welcoming and that became my social group. The place was really more than a club, with other activities too.

Shortly after I found another place that I fell in love with and almost never left the place for weeks at a time.

During my first few years in SL I never, ever had a problem finding interesting places to go or interesting things to do, and *that* kept me in SL and motivated me to learn more and grow and develop. Probably the biggest advantage of SL to me was that back in those days people actually talked in chat, so it was a lot easier for me to find people to talk with and to get to know some people. The second biggest was that a lot of places I loved existed.

I guess as someone else said, different people coming in at different times find different things compelling. IMO, SL is very self-selecting; the people who like the version that exists at that time stay, those who don’t go. The people who stay may continue to find enough meaning in SL to stick with it even when disruptive changes in the tech happen or subtle shifts in the culture happen will adapt those who don’t will leave.

Sorry for the rambling, but the way it relates to the thread topic is that while I and a lot of existing residents have no interest in using it, the mobile app may attract a lot of new users who find it appealing. Wrt my limited understanding, upgrading to PBR will not affect how well the mobile viewer runs because it uses an engine built to handle that, and that mobiles are built to handle that, too; the main reason to have PBR and the mobile viewer being developed together is to try to get PRB content implemented in SL so the mobile users will have a better graphical environment?

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

5 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

They do pop-up events(I don’t even mean shopping events, they have those too)and have pop up hang outs and they’re packed! They operate in Secondlife very differently 

I wonder if most of it is planned in discord and they jump into an event in sl. Discord has become a big part of sl in a weird way. For a lot of people, getting your discord deets is a step toward a more "meaningful online relationship". Which is why there is no one on my discord friend list.

[Janet Voxel]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Really interesting and insightful point.

So, how does one find out what such people are looking for from the platform?

I think they’ve found it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

I think they’ve found it.

Presumably, but if LL and residents who are looking to attract a newer demographic had a clearer notion of what "it" is, it's something we could use as a marketing focus, and as a guide to building more interesting, engaging, and exciting venues in-world.

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I wonder if most of it is planned in discord and they jump into an event in sl. Discord has become a big part of sl in a weird way. For a lot of people, getting your discord deets is a step toward a more "meaningful online relationship". Which is why there is no one on my discord friend list.

Well one of the ones I was talking about was actually from an in world group. It was a flexi hair store (you know the type of hair people on this forum like to make fun of because it’s old?) they rented a sim, did it up like a Caribbean island, had teegle horses to ride around on, rtvs, had a little beach. People went, people hung out, poof gone in a month. Completely planned that way weren’t selling anything on the sim. Just as a thank you. One of the most generous things I’ve seen a creator do on here in years.

Yeah, stuff like that is happening…right now.

[WeFlossDaily]

To find gen Z users you probably have to learn to speak their dialect of English, or at least recognize it, no cap, on god. They're not gonna wanna glow up and slay with you if you talk like a latte papa.